WHAT up with that?

[reza.z]

I am a current masters student at AZCOM that has been accepted into the class of 2007. My goal is to become a pediatric surgeon. However, it seems like there is this resistance against DOs that want to enter surgery. The latest statment by a current member here is "it would be a stretch for a DO to become a pediatric surgeon." Now I don't have any doubts about the road that I have chosen (osteopathic), but to what extent is all this resistance real? Will I be rejected after all my hard work? Will I have to settle for another specialty? So I ask you all, what up with that?
Don't be a DO-hater. .

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[tkim]

Dr. Carungi teaches at AZCOM - he's a surgeon. Didn't seem to stop him ...

- Tae

 

[luckystar]

Check out www.eapsa.org , if you haven't already.

I suppose ped-surgery fellowships are difficult for DOs to get into because there are very few programs and they're all allopathic. You'd also have to complete a GS residency first and get board certification. An important factor that fellowship directors look at is a recommendation from a practicing ped-surgeon, and you would probably be more likely to get to know one during an allopathic GS residency than an osteopathic one. It seems that surgery is among a couple of other fields that still have a lot of resistance to DOs entering them, and who can really say why that is?
Are you 100% sure you want to go into ped-surg? It certainly isn't impossible for a DO to be one, but like others who share your goal, MD or DO, you have to work extra hard to make yourself shine. And it wouldn't hurt to get a phenomenal score on the USMLE.

 

[SawBones]

I think it would help to understand the competitive nature of your competition for surgical programs. All too often I hear DO students complain that "I can't be a surgeon because I'm going to be a DO." This is absolute bunk, folks. Rather, I think if we were to dive deeper into the academic records of students making such claims that we'd find that they can't be surgeons because they have a B- GPA or because they don't have stellar COMLEX/USMLE scores. Rest assured that an MD student with a B- GPA and less than stellar USMLE scores won't gain acceptance to that surgical program either. To gain acceptance into a competitive program, you need to be a stellar applicant, regardless of whether your training is MD or DO.

There is no magical acceptance ticket for MD students, folks. Programs don't typically turn down amazing DO students for less-than-average MD students JUST because they are MD students. But what you absolutely MUST keep in mind is that what the osteopathic world considers "stellar" may not be what the allopathic world considers stellar. By this I mean, a stellar student at a DO school might be someone with near-perfect grades who helped open a free clinic while in medical school (i.e., the student manifests the clinical and humanitarian qualities valued by osteopathic medicine). Meanwhile, a stellar student at an MD school might be someone who is well published and has significant experience with surgically-related research.

My point is this: Your challenge lies not in the fact that your degree designation will be "DO". Rather, your challenge lies in that you must compete in THEIR arena on THEIR terms regardless of whether the research opportunities (and other surgically-related activities) exist at your present school. In sum, you will need the acquire the same qualifications as the MD applicants in order to gain acceptance. If you do not possess these qualifications, then frankly you do not deserve acceptance.

 

[reza.z]

Thank you very much luckystar and SawBones for your enlightning responses. I do certainly understand that the path I have chosen so prematurely is difficult with many obstacles. I am pretty sure, even though I have not began med school yet, that I want to become a pediatric surgeon. The comments of SawBone were very interesting, especially about the difference between the DO great student and an MD great student. I appreciate it. I am just trying my best to get as informed as possible so that I am prepared to do the right things in med school. I did check out the website that luckystar recommended and it is very valuable. Thank you luckystar. If anyone else has more information or personal experience about the pediatric surgery specialty and is willing to share, it would be appreciated .

 

[oceandocDO]

Surgery supposedly isnt anywhere near as hard to get into these days. I heard close to a hundred gen surgery slots went unfilled nationally this year. Students are finally choosing lifestyle over the glamour and money of surgery, partly since nobody seems to make boatloads of quick cash in medicine anymore anyway.

Are the new maximum resident work hour laws exempt to surgeons? I heard they were. I'm almost positive they were in NY in the post Bell Commission days.

The latest statment by a current member here is "it would be a stretch for a DO to become a pediatric surgeon"

heh... use this board for entertainment purposes mostly. I do.

 

[rbassdo]

reza.z,

Ten bucks says you'll go into something other than pediatric surgery. I'm not saying you're not good enough or that you shouldn't. Odds are you won't. I know that since I've STARTED med school, I've changed my mind. Several of my class mates have shifted interests too. With so many awesome fields to enter, I'd take a bet against ANYONE actually doing exactly what they thought they wanted to do before beginning. Not that some don't do it - I would just bet against it. Nothing against you personally. Keep that in mind.

 

[DermRes]

Whether you get to become a pediatric surger depends on whether you give up like most people simply because it is difficult. If you are determined and keep doing your best, there will be a pediatric surgery opportunity for you someday.

 

[Castro Viejo]

Take it one step at a time, and don't start freaking out NOW over something that won't be an issue LATER.

Your first goal when you start medical school is to do well and get into a surgical residency. While it is true that General Surgery in the past several years has had many, many unfilled spots, MOST of these were PRELIMINARY spots and NOT categorical. There were only a handful of categorical programs that went unfilled. There are also signs that General Surgery is gaining somewhat in popularity, with an overall increase in applications this year. Who knows where this will go?

Forget the supposed differences between a "great MD student" and a "great DO student." They're one in the same and both will have excellent grades, scores, letters, and some will even publish.

Once you get to surgical residency, you'll make your friends and contacts, you'll take off anywhere from 2 to 3 years and do some bench work in a lab somewhere, and then you'll go into your peds surgery fellowship. It's that simple.

Is it a little more difficult for a DO to get into a peds surgery fellowship despite all the hard work? It may be, but who really cares right now? You're seven to eight years from deciding if you really want to be a pediatric surgeon in the first place.

I know of DOs who went on to GU (Urology) residencies at some pretty top-flight locales. On my surgical interviews I've met DO surgical residents who have aspirations to do things as wild and crazy as pediatric cardiothoracic surgery.

As others have stated you are not limited by the simple fact that you're a DO. Concentrate on your most immediate goal and everything else will fall into place.

And as someone else has warned, chances are you'll change your mind. Many of my friends and neighbors, as well as I, have.

Good luck.

 

[reza.z]

Thanx guys for all your perspectives. Rbassdo and ****** are right about the fact that it is too early to worry about that right now. I know that on my path to residency I will experience a lot of fields and may change my mind. If anyone can recommend a good book to read about medical school and residency I would appreciate it.

 

[Dr. Feelgood]

Man, that Sawbones is smart.

Another $10 says you'll fall in love with OBGYN, ENT, Urology (in that order), and then end up trying desperately to get into an ER program somewhere. Concentrate your efforts in getting really good grades, sign up for all the weekend and friday afternoon volunteer stuff at your school, kiss the right butt here and there, and you can be whatever kind of doctor you wanna be when you grow up.

Best of luck to you.