What was your first-year (starting) salary right out of dental school?

[Medin2017]

I don't think he forgot it

Guess it's subjective, but private practice OMFS still hits 40 or less hr weeks (or whatever similar to GD) and is guaranteed a better rate (if business skills are equal). The only reason an OMFS wouldn't be making like 500+ is if they choose to do the fun procedures in hospitals for a few days of the week (something most OMFS on SDN seem to do).

Also with ortho, saturation is a much bigger deal compared to other specialties and will only get worse with all the for profit private residencies.

Don't want another specialty vs GD argument though- I accept a GD with super business skills can beat a lot of specialists.

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[periopocket]

what made you not in the end? I've read that peds is starting to feel saturation now since ppl found out it was lucrative

I only wanted to have to see 10 patients a day. Peds sees 30-60pts a day on average. Too much bending over for me.


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[Medin2017]

I only wanted to have to see 10 patients a day. Peds sees 30-60pts a day on average. Too much bending over for me.


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oh true that's what someone I know doing OMFS told me about ortho. Different strokes for different folks I guess

 

[comatose]

any specialty of dentistry is super stressful except ortho. Endo to me is the most frustrating procedure because you have to have a lot of patience and will power, so I'd say endos have the most difficult type of dentistry; however omfs and pedo are still more stressful overall. Lots of things can go wrong, and often do. Kids are dinguses, parents are bigger dinguses, and oral surgery is possibly the most litigious specialty. Lots can go wrong with surgery, and it's higher stress than people realize. Look at the types of personalities that come out of oral surgery residencies. Very stressful.

 

[Medin2017]

any specialty of dentistry is super stressful except ortho. Endo to me is the most frustrating procedure because you have to have a lot of patience and will power, so I'd say endos have the most difficult type of dentistry; however omfs and pedo are still more stressful overall. Lots of things can go wrong, and often do. Kids are dinguses, parents are bigger dinguses, and oral surgery is possibly the most litigious specialty. Lots can go wrong with surgery, and it's higher stress than people realize. Look at the types of personalities that come out of oral surgery residencies. Very stressful.

I would be interested in ortho if saturation wasn't so great and income wasn't declining. But from GDs I talked to, they say it's nice b/c the work is easy. The future of ortho just doesn't seem as rosy as it was in the past.

Pedo ppl probably go in b/c they have good personalities, but even if people were annoyed of kids/parents being a-holes, if they were being reimbursed enough I'm sure they wouldn't mind it as much. I'm of the cynical philosophy that every career becomes a job in the end.

In regard to OMFS, I feel people mix private practice with hospital work. I don't see how teeth extractions + implants would open you up for more major litigation any more than a general dentist (in fact a GD would be more likely to mess up on those procedures than an OMFS correct?).

Are you a specialist by any chance?

 

[periopocket]

any specialty of dentistry is super stressful except ortho. Endo to me is the most frustrating procedure because you have to have a lot of patience and will power, so I'd say endos have the most difficult type of dentistry; however omfs and pedo are still more stressful overall. Lots of things can go wrong, and often do. Kids are dinguses, parents are bigger dinguses, and oral surgery is possibly the most litigious specialty. Lots can go wrong with surgery, and it's higher stress than people realize. Look at the types of personalities that come out of oral surgery residencies. Very stressful.

Litigation is another super important topic. On that note, pedo likely has a much lower rate of litigation compared to other specialties. So really if you sum all the factors together, your best off on choosing a specialty that offers you a combination of things you want. The money will come but also might fluctuate at some point based on number output and insurance. With reimbursements on the consistent track to be lowered, pedo will likely have to see even more patients to sustain their current numbers.


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[Medin2017]

Litigation is another super important topic. On that note, pedo likely has a much lower rate of litigation compared to other specialties. So really if you sum all the factors together, your best off on choosing a specialty that offers you a combination of things you want. The money will come but also might fluctuate at some point based on number output and insurance. With reimbursements on the consistent track to be lowered, pedo will likely have to see even more patients to sustain their current numbers.


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Just wondering, if reimbursements are decreasing, why are specialty earnings increasing (for the past few years anyway)? Any idea on that?

 

[periopocket]

Just wondering, if reimbursements are decreasing, why are specialty earnings increasing (for the past few years anyway)? Any idea on that?

Many specialties are fee for service and don't accept insurances for their procedures.


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[Medin2017]

cool

 

[DentistHeather]

Is that because of choice or have you had trouble finding a full time job?

By choice. I had two kids by the age of 27 so I was busy!

 

[wengerout]

Yes peds make a lot. That's no secret, but look what they have to do on a daily basis. It's a nightmare job for most. I can't stand kids to begin with, but to have them awake and then drill in their mouth? Also you have to deal with the parents, which may be worse than dealing with the screaming kids. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to do their job. The only specialty that really is better than general is ortho hands down. Little to no stress.

Ohhh there's not enough money in the world for me to do peds haha, still making 7 figures is impressive


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[kidsaremypassion]

Yes peds make a lot. That's no secret, but look what they have to do on a daily basis. It's a nightmare job for most. I can't stand kids to begin with, but to have them awake and then drill in their mouth? Also you have to deal with the parents, which may be worse than dealing with the screaming kids. You couldn't pay me any amount of money to do their job. The only specialty that really is better than general is ortho hands down. Little to no stress.

This may be true in some circumstances. But if you love working with children and patient interaction, it can truly be an amazing, rewarding specialty. I can honestly say that I enjoy going to work everyday, and I couldn't imagine treating adults at this point. There is never a dull moment in clinic; and the kids keep me young, lol.

 

[wengerout]

You can make 7 figures in any popular field of dentistry including GD

See a dentist on SDN said making that much in a single practice is "nearly impossible" due to the amount of production required and low overhead, so that's why I was a bit taken back that Peds could hit it in a single practice.


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[comatose]

This may be true in some circumstances. But if you love working with children and patient interaction, it can truly be an amazing, rewarding specialty. I can honestly say that I enjoy going to work everyday, and I couldn't imagine treating adults at this point. There is never a dull moment in clinic; and the kids keep me young, lol.

Well it takes a really special kind of person to do your job, and that's saying it nicely. Pediatricians are one thing, but a pediatric dentist that has to operate on kids when they're awake (or if they aren't awake, added liability from oral sedation). You really have to have the right personality for the job. God bless all pedos. If you're not sure whether or not you're interested in pedo, all you have to do is spend a day in a pedo clinic and realize that hell is right here on earth.

 

[845302]

I've asked this question before, but I feel like I can meet a broader audience on this forum...

What is a Perio's annual salary in, let's say... Texas or Arizona or Cali. What about nationally? Any Perios out there who can help me out?

-Fyz

 

[Medin2017]

I've asked this question before, but I feel like I can meet a broader audience on this forum...

What is a Perio's annual salary in, let's say... Texas or Arizona or Cali. What about nationally? Any Perios out there who can help me out?

-Fyz

yea and dentaltown has not many specialists..

Wish there was a forum like the sdn MD forums where there are more participants. I assume it's because in the past (15 yrs ago or so) med applicants were likely different than dental ones (whereas now dental applicants are closing the gap in stats and such), so there were more type A premeds who used SDN and eventually became docs and contribute back to SDN than predents.

 

[wengerout]

If you're not sure whether or not you're interested in pedo, all you have to do is spend a day in a pedo clinic and realize that hell is right here on earth.

 

[WingZeroM3]

120K back in 2009.
Chump change.

185K in 2017.
Gas money.
Loan forgiveness...in a couple of years.

 

[Medin2017]

120K back in 2009.
Chump change.

185K in 2017.
Gas money.
Loan forgiveness...in a couple of years.

Would you say this is a standard path? People on this forum (unlike dtown) say the average is definitely above 185k, and you've been in practice for 8 years. Are you an owner or associate?

 

[WingZeroM3]

Would you say this is a standard path? People on this forum (unlike dtown) say the average is definitely above 185k, and you've been in practice for 8 years. Are you an owner or associate?

I'm on staff a local hospital. Would you make more as an owner? Absolutely. But you have look at the total compensation package. With Loan forgiveness, I would need a job that pays 250K a year. I have 350K in student loans that will be wipe out in 3 years. Plus pension. Not too shabby.
Income, Billing and Other Common Dentistry Statistics
Avg GP was 180K in 2015.

If you want the big bucks...---------> ownership or some kick-a$$ associate-ship position>
I would say, I at the peak of the bell curve.

 

[Medin2017]

I'm on staff a local hospital. Would you make more as an owner? Absolutely. But you have look at the total compensation package. With Loan forgiveness, I would need a job that pays 250K a year. I have 350K in student loans that will be wipe out in 3 years. Plus pension. Not too shabby.
Income, Billing and Other Common Dentistry Statistics
Avg GP was 180K in 2015.

If you want the big bucks...---------> ownership or some kick-a$$ associate-ship position>
I would say, I at the peak of the bell curve.

Thanks. I believe I read in another post you talked of buying a new practice. How hard do you think it is to start or buy one and be able to do better than you currently are?

And yea that was the average I was referring to, but people say it's definitely an underestimate

 

[WingZeroM3]

Thanks. I believe I read in another post you talked of buying a new practice. How hard do you think it is to start or buy one and be able to do better than you currently are?

And yea that was the average I was referring to, but people say it's definitely an underestimate

Starting one would be difficult. You're gonna have 1-2 slow years...or even more. I'm in a large metro area...so competition is fierce..... ADA is pretty accurate for most part. I have classmates that are making less..and some that are making more. Everyone wants a model practice taking home 250-300K a year. Possible...but its not gonna happen with everyone. Typical Gunners. hahah. I work 32-38 hours a week for 185K+pension+student loan forgiven.. So my total compensation is about 250K. Once my loan is forgiven, I plan to start a small practice....outside the city (40 miles) where I'm at... demand for dentistry is still there. Open limited hours....i.e. Friday to Sunday. Most clinic out here are close on Friday. Once it becomes establish...in 2 years or so...expand the days.....and hire associates. I still plan to keep my hospital gig. It's my cash cow. Just like the boys on DT, having multiple practices...I plan to have my own practice while working a the hospital. Hospital gig is my safety net. hope that helps..

 

[Medin2017]

Starting one would be difficult. You're gonna have 1-2 slow years...or even more. I'm in a large metro area...so competition is fierce..... ADA is pretty accurate for most part. I have classmates that are making less..and some that are making more. Everyone wants a model practice taking home 250-300K a year. Possible...but its not gonna happen with everyone. Typical Gunners. hahah. I work 32-38 hours a week for 185K+pension+student loan forgiven.. So my total compensation is about 250K. Once my loan is forgiven, I plan to start a small practice....outside the city (40 miles) where I'm at... demand for dentistry is still there. Open limited hours....i.e. Friday to Sunday. Most clinic out here are close on Friday. Once it becomes establish...in 2 years or so...expand the days.....and hire associates. I still plan to keep my hospital gig. It's my cash cow. Just like the boys on DT, having multiple practices...I plan to have my own practice while working a the hospital. Hospital gig is my safety net. hope that helps..

yea it does thx

 

[marriumhr]

Anyone got any info on start-up salary of periodontists in Virginia/ WV? What benefits or package should we ask for ? What should be the hourly rate ? I’m Graduating in 2019.