What we've learned in researching Caribbean medical schools

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cjcrook

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I thought I would share some of the things my wife and I have learned in researching the option to go to medical school in the Caribbean. Hopefully this may help someone else. I don't believe that I'm going to share anything earth shattering, but yet it did take a lot of digging and I'm happy to help someone avoid the same level of effort.

My wife is 33 years old. Our kids are 12, 10 and 1.5. She gradated two years ago from a local State university. Her GPA was 3.8 with 3.7 in the sciences. By the time she graduated she had racked up a seriously impressive list of extra curricular activities, cancer research, volunteer hours at the hospital, community involvement, leadership, and even a shadowing internship at the local hospital in which she spent ten hours a day for a month with a variety of specialists. She had strong letters of recommendation from her faculty adviser, from her research adviser, and from several physicians who she had shadowed. So far it was the medical school application from heaven.

She was pregnant when she took the MCAT, and when she got her score, it was a serious blow. 20. Science 8, Physics 6, Language 5.

The obvious course of action was to take it again, but before that would be possible, we had our third child. By the time she was recovered enough to think about getting ready to re-take, that just didn't feel like the right thing to do. We're not getting any younger, and rather than take the time to retake the MCAT, we decided together to try and find a school that would accept her as is. Also, her desire is not to be in the upper echelons of doctors at a world famous clinic. She will be perfectly happy at a hospital in a mid sized city.

We looked into MD schools in the states and ruled them out. None of them would take a 20 MCAT score. She applied to almost a dozen DO schools and got the same response: "Your application is impressive, when you have a new MCAT score please reapply."

Reluctantly, we began to look at Caribbean schools. The more we looked into this option, the more we set out our fears aside. Granted, we had reservations, but overall we came to conclude that it was a path that would allow her to meat her goals. When I say "we looked into this option", here's what I mean:

  • We have three personal friends who are MD's. One is a general practitioner, one is an OBGYN and one is a radiologist. We asked all three their opinions on Caribbean schools. The general practitioner was strongly negative towards the idea. The radiologist was neutral, and the OBGYN said it's a solid, viable option.

  • All three said they knew docs in the area who had gone to school in the Caribbean, and all of them are respected physicians who excel in their field. We asked our friends to facilitate an introduction, and in the cases where that was possible, we asked the Caribbean grads deep, probing questions.

  • We got online and did some preliminary research and quickly decided to limit our scope to the top 3 schools. We noticed that AUC was going to host an open house near our home, so we went. We were favorably impressed.

  • Based on cost, class size, and location, we decided to limit our focus to AUC.

  • We found blogs from current and past students and read them all. We emailed the owners of the blogs and asked them the same kind of probing questions we asked the Caribbean graduate MD's in our area.

  • We called AUC and asked them the same questions.
Based on all this research, here are the conclusions to which we came. These are not iron clad, scientific findings. You may dispute them, and if so, that's fine. But we think these are based on a solid understanding of AUC, and likely the other top Caribbean schools as well.

Passing the USMLE's:

  • AUC boasts a 94% pass rate on the USMLE's. While that's impressive, it's also misleading. That number represents the students who sit for the exam and pass, and not the number of incoming freshman who eventually pass. (The reports on the percentages of incoming freshman who ended up sitting for the exam were so varied depending on who we asked that it wouldn't be fair to speculate. The best estimates were 85% and the worst were 60%.)

  • A shockingly high number of students either drop out or flunk out before taking the first round of exams. Every school has drop-out's and flunk-outs, but AUC's (and all Caribbean schools??) rate is really high. AUC representatives would try to evade this question, but the students and grads we emailed were more open about this yet were unable to give exact percentages.

  • The drop-outs were typically kids who showed up on the island believing that because AUC was easier to get into, that it would therefor be easy to get through as well. They thought it was the "easy" path to MD. When they learned that there was serious work involved, they bailed.

  • The flunk-outs were kids who got too involved in the trappings of island life, didn't study enough, and were shown the door when grades came out.

  • And there are always just some students who, upon getting into med school, decide it's not what they want, and for whatever personal reason, they opt out.

  • Of the students who remain, all are required to take several practice USMLE's before the actual exams. Only those who do well on the practice tests can sit for the real thing. (From what we heard, most but not all pass the practice exams).

  • By the time you've filtered out the drop-outs, the flunk-outs, the students who leave for personal reasons, and the students who just can't pass the practice exams, 94% of who's left pass their first round of USMLE's and move on to clinical rotations back in the States.
Matching for Residency:

  • Just about every graduating class of AUC usually has a small number (ie:1-3) who end up in a highly competitive, prestigious residency.

  • Roughly 40% to 50% get their first choice of match. But keep in mind that these students are realistic about their "first choice" and usually don't apply to Johns Hopkins, Mayo, or Cleveland Clinic. But still, they are getting into the same programs as kids from second and third tier MD schools in the States, and in many cases are beating out the DO school grads.

  • Most of the others still match, just not their first choice. Keep in mind that some who did not get their first choice did, in fact, apply to the top tier programs in hopes of a miracle.

  • A certain percentage don't match at all. This is typically because their rotations were disastrous, usually due to personality reasons. They did fine in a classroom and on exams, but in an actual hospital, they just couldn't perform. Nobody would write them a letter of recommendation.
Actual Jobs:

  • Our friend the radiologist sits on the board which hires new recruits out of residency. He said they don't care where their recruits went to school or where they did their residency. They care about 1) Are they licensed to practice, 2) Are they board certified, 3) Do they come with strong letters out of residency, and 4) Do they interview well. They have never had a Caribbean school student apply, but if one ever does, they would not hold that against them.

  • The Caribbean grads who we met are now practicing in solid careers and enjoying a comfortable life. They work for impressive clinics, practices and hospitals in a market of 100,000 people that is an hour outside the Twin Cities. They have no regrets about where they went to school.

  • AUC grads seem to congregate in certain locations such as NYC. Don't think mid-town Manhattan. Think Brooklyn, Staten Island, and just outside the city on Long Island. There are also a high percentage in California. Think middle markets like Bakersfield. A smaller percentage scatter all over the country in between the coasts. During the open house we attended in Minneapolis, a general surgeon was scheduled to come meet us, but he was called into emergency surgery and couldn't make it.
Bottom line: If you are realistic about how hard you have to work, if you pass the USMLE's, and if you can include some leadership and extra curricular activities while in med school (ie: medical missions, leadership, etc), you stand a good chance of getting into a strong residency program. By "strong" I don't mean the super elite programs, just good the ones. If you don't get a "good" match, you should still get into a second or third tier program.

After residency, you should be able to enjoy a rewarding career as a doctor in your chosen field. Don't plan on being in the upper crust of the elite crowd, but do plan on being a good solid MD in a small or even medium sized market. By "small" I don't mean ultra-small-town rural. I mean towns like mine of ~100,000. And keep in mind that even the docs in these markets still make darn good money.

That's about it. Like I said... there is nothing scientific about all this. It's just our own conclusions based on what we think was some fairly vigorous research from people who are in the know.

Her application is in to AUC. We should know soon. :)

Thanks for reading .

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It would be a lot safer to just study, retake the USMLE and try to get into a US DO school, and/or your state MD school.

You are not thinking about the 6% of presumably very diligent students of the school who just cannot pass the USMLE. This is after passing the mandatory exam the school apparently gives. How many get "held up" by the school's exam? What happens to those people? Also, becoming prepared for residency depends on a lot more than being able to pass the USMLE. My experience has been that where some IMG and/or FMG grads are deficient is how to clinically work up a patient and deal with working in a hospital, and figure out what is wrong with a patient. This is probably because some of the schools don't have well organized clinical rotations, and some don't really filter the applicants they will accept very well.
 
It would be a lot safer to just study, retake the USMLE and try to get into a US DO school, and/or your state MD school.

I think you mean the MCAT, and the USMLE's.

It would be a lot safer? Hmm. Keeping in mind my wife's goals of eventually landing a job in a hospital in a mid to small market, I'm not really sure this is true. She is not one of the young kids who is going to flunk out or drop out. She is realistic about how hard she is going to have to work, and is looking forward to it. From what I've seen, the top 50% of grads from schools like AUC and SGU end up in exactly the kind of residency programs that she needs to help her obtain her goals.

You are not thinking about the 6% of presumably very diligent students of the school who just cannot pass the USMLE.

Yes. I am. But this is a problem at every medical school. It's not unique to Caribbean schools. Going to a US based med school is no shield against failing the USMLE's. People flunk those exams at every school.

My experience has been that where some IMG and/or FMG grads are deficient is how to clinically work up a patient and deal with working in a hospital, and figure out what is wrong with a patient. This is probably because some of the schools don't have well organized clinical rotations...

For many of the non-top-4 Caribbean schools, you are absolutely correct. The vast majority of Caribbean schools have terribly shoddy clinical rotation programs, and even send their students to different hospitals for each rotation. You will be in Florida for your OBGYN rotations and then in Michigan for Pieds, etc. They lack the on-sight one-on-one mentoring needed to turn out a qualified MD.

I don't believe this is true for the top Caribbean schools. I can really only speak for AUC, but.... all rotations are done at a single hospital. There is something like 50 you can choose from. The school has worked hard with these hospitals to develop a solid working relationship. Each student is assigned an attending physician to be their mentor during a rotation, and the student works one-on-one with the attending.

And again, their students are landing residency programs that are on-par with DO schools and tier 2 and 3 US med schools.

... and some don't really filter the applicants they will accept very well.

Again, the key word here is "some". Pleae don't lump all Caribbean schools into one homogenous glob. It is, of course, a given fact that Caribbean schools are easier to get into then US based schools. Nobody disputes that. This is their niche. It's also true that because of these lax standards, Caribbean schools see a higher dropout rate. That's to be expected, and they do a good job of filtering out the students who are not serious or who are not prepared to do the work that it takes.

But here are some other truths:

  • We have a shortage of doctors in this country. Ask anyone who tries to hire doctors. They can't find them fast enough, and the competition to hire qualified doctors is fierce. It's a problem.

  • There are way more students who are trying to get into US medical schools than the schools themselves can handle. The schools are the bottle neck. There are not enough of them.

  • There are many, many gifted, talented hard working students who want to be doctors but who, because of a finite, limited number of seats at US based schools, will not get into a US school. These students, were they given a chance at a US school, would excel. But there is just simply not enough capacity to handle them all.

  • The Caribbean schools exist to fill this gap.
If you work hard, pass the USMLE's do good in your rotations, are driven and determined, you will end up in a reputable residency program and you will end up with a great job when it's all done.

And this statement is true for US med schools and Caribbean med schools.
 
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2 things-

1) I would be concerned about your wife's standardized test taking abilities. While MCAT scores do not predict Step I scores, a 20 on the MCAT may indicate deficiencies. Take a prep course and re-take the MCAT.

2) You should take a hard look at the IMG match rate success and chart it over the past 3 or 4 yrs. The Caribbean schools may "fill the gap" as you say for people who want to go to medical school, but they have NO impact on the # of residency spots. They could churn out 20k intelligent, likable and competent docs tomorrow and the vast majority of spots (rightfully so IMHO) would still go to AMG's.

sorry if i sound blunt (post-call), but I only see the road for IMG's getting harder over the next few years.
 
I would also urge your wife to retake the MCAT. She sounds like a strong applicant with a good work ethic. I would also reiterated what the previous poster said, an MCAT of 20 implies significant deficiencies. These are deficiencies that WILL need to be addressed, either now or during her matriculation at medical school. It would be far wiser to deal with them now.

Retaking the MCAT may infact be lead to her finishing med school faster than if she went to AUC. I don't know how AUC works, but you say there are about 50 rotations..for how many students? There may in fact be a waiting list for these rotation spots. It may be that your wife would be rotating for one month, and then waiting another month just to start her next rotation. I don't know if thats something you inquired about but it is definately something to look into.
 
You've posted a pretty reasonable summary. I'd add/clarify a few things.

1. AUC happens to be on a really good island with good infrastructure. Most (if not all) of the other carib schools are on islands with "difficulties" -- unreliable power, supplies, etc. Some people don't do well because they expect the living conditions to be the same as they are used to, or worse, like a resort. On the other hand, AUC's island is going to have the highest cost of living to deal with.

2. Just "passing" the USMLE is not adequate. You will discover that if your USMLE score is passing but low, your wife may have great difficulty finding a residency spot.

3. The supply/demand ratio for residency spots is in flux, and no one knows where it will go. US medical schools have increased enrollment, and several new schools have opened or are in the process of doing so. DO schools have been increasing enrollment also. Duty hour limitations might make some programs increase slots. GME budget cuts, almost certain to be in the very near future, might decrease spots. In any case, it's clear that a shift in the supply/demand would have the greatest impact on IMG's
 
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I think before your wife takes her acceptance to AUC-when she does get accepted- it makes more sense to retake the MCAT. The MCAT is strongly correlated with the Umsle; those who score subpar in the MCAT are extremely likely to struggle and fail out of medical school and fail the Usmle repeatly. Before you and your wife make the investment into medical school it is paramount that both of you are sure your wife is ready. Taking the MCAT again, while it is a tremendous burden is a small price to pay. Since you can always defer admissions to AUC, i see no reason for why you can not postpone this life changing decision.
 
As a current student at AUC (only 4 more months left on the island!), I thought I would post a response to your research about AUC. I think you did a great job researching, and would point out a couple things.

1) The MCAT. Take this from someone who is currently down here, and the very good advice of aProgDirector (whom I think is pretty spot on with his/her advice) - the road is greatly more difficult from the Carib. You are 100% right it is not insurmountable, but you will NEED to be in the top half of your class to get a really good shot at residency, and in the top 25% to somewhat control your own destiny. If she can re-take the MCAT, score maybe 5 points higher, then I would suggest she goes the DO route. If she really doesn't want to, that's ok, the Carib is still a viable option. Just a harder option.

2) The drop out rate. You are right, it happens, and it's vastly due to the lower caliber of student that may be accepted. Some people just shouldn't be in med school. People like to bring this up as if it is a failing of the school, but that isn't the whole truth. In the US, if you struggle, you are given a lot of options to work your failing grade into a passing grade. At AUC, if you fail, you fail. Period. Personally, I think it is a positive, because it prevents some kids from getting into further debt who will eventually be unable to pass the USMLE.

3) The mandatory exam, also called The Comp (Comprehensive Basic Sciences Exam by the NBME). Very, very, very few students fail this. You get 4 tries! The average is always passing, and some students have to take it twice. Very few take it three times, and you can only take it the 4th time once you take a review course. There are not "multiple" internal exams: there is one exam, that you get multiple attempts at. The school is not trying to trip anyone up: the bottom line is if you cannot pass the Comp, you cannot pass the USMLE. Thus, it protects the school's pass rate (it is a business after all) and the student from thinking they are better prepared than they really are. Again, VERY FEW students do not pass after FOUR attempts and a review course (I am talking one or two students per year). If you fail 4 times, you are dropped from the medical school. And I think that is fair.

4) I have heard positives about clinical rotations from 3rd and 4th years, but cannot comment on it as I have no experience yet with the rotations. However, if anyone tells you "there is a long wait list for clinical spots", they are delusional. There are plently of spots, and students only wait if they have very specific demands for locations. And that wait is typically a month or so.

5) I am going to re-iterate what aProgDirector said. The bottleneck is not in the US schools - it's at residency spots. And that is where IMGs get screwed. And believe me, they get screwed. In the US, your wife could have the med school stats to get highly sought after specialty spots.....but because she is an IMG, she will only get Internal Medicine. (Not that there is anything wrong with IM.) If her stats are lower (like US average USMLE), she will have to work hard for a good IM spot. Keep in mind that AMGs will look down on Carib grads (and I really have no idea why - because you performed poorly on O-Chem in undergrad or low on the MCAT you are going to be a bad doctor? We are going to hold the actions of 18-22 year olds against them forever?) when going for residencies. There are some truly silly arguments against Carib grads, and some legitimate ones (some say clinicals can be lower tier; this could be true, but I doubt it for AUC/Ross/SGU). But it is there, and she will see it as she tries to get a residency.

6) Apartments are expensive down here, and school is expensive as well (you won't be sending your kids to public school, believe me, so you will pay). You will rack up loans quickly (unless you have some cash set aside). You probably will not come back to the US the entire time you are down here due to the price of plane tickets. I can give you some tips/advice on the island if you want, but I think it can be a bit tough on a family if you are not prepared.

PM me if you have more questions, I will try to get back to you. Excellent job on your research for the school. I hope this helps.
 
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I think you mean the MCAT, and the USMLE's.

It would be a lot safer? Hmm. Keeping in mind my wife's goals of eventually landing a job in a hospital in a mid to small market, I'm not really sure this is true. She is not one of the young kids who is going to flunk out or drop out. She is realistic about how hard she is going to have to work, and is looking forward to it. From what I've seen, the top 50% of grads from schools like AUC and SGU end up in exactly the kind of residency programs that she needs to help her obtain her goals.


I'm sorry to say this but your wife scored a 5 on her language section of the MCAT (I think you meant the "verbal" section). I took a practice MCAT several years ago and I just randomly clicked the answers and managed to score a 5. This indicates that she has a serious language deficiency so much so that she might not even be able to understand the material in a medical textbook or in patient history.

Also her physics is a 6 which is still below the average. You might think that her work ethics will allow her to pass, but a 6 means that she has a serious deficiency in her basic understanding of physics and general chemistry. The medical school curriculum will relie heavily on having a solid understanding of all these subjects in order to teach the material. If you wife is scoring below the average on any of the science section, that represents a serious handicap to the point that she may not even be able to pass her basic science classes and boards during the first 2 years of her medical studies.
 
Lot's of good points that everyone has made, and I thank you all. Thank you especially to CaribKid for filling in some of the gaps in my research.

I won't take the time to comment on everything that has been said, except for the voiced concerns about my wife's ability to take standardized tests. I did mention that she was pregnant, but I didn't go into detail. Not that I'm going to expound too much more other than to say that it was a brutal pregnancy. She was sick the entire nine months and had complications towards the end, which is right when she took the MCAT.

We really have considered every angle of this. I'm not saying we are going into this with rose colored glasses... we have heard the same things you said about FMG's, CaribKid, many times.

Also, her eventual goal is to become a Pediatric Oncologist. Her residency will be (we hope) in Pediatrics, and then she'll do a fellowship in Oncology.

However, if anyone tells you "there is a long wait list for clinical spots", they are delusional.
Nobody ever told us that. Did I say someone did? I didn't mean to. That's the least of our concerns.

And, we found out today that she got accepted. She starts in January.
 
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...she has a serious language deficiency so much so that she might not even be able to understand the material in a medical textbook or in patient history.

:D Thanks for that.
 
She was pregnant when she took the MCAT, and when she got her score, it was a serious blow. 20. Science 8, Physics 6, Language 5.


8+6+5=19
 
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6) Apartments are expensive down here, and school is expensive as well (you won't be sending your kids to public school, believe me, so you will pay). You will rack up loans quickly (unless you have some cash set aside). You probably will not come back to the US the entire time you are down here due to the price of plane tickets. I can give you some tips/advice on the island if you want, but I think it can be a bit tough on a family if you are not prepared.

A couple notes on this. Yes, we are aware. I have a great job with a good salary as a software programmer, and I have arranged with my employer to work remotely. This won't cover all expenses, but it will certainly help. We have told our kids that our lifestyle is going to take a serious hit. In fact we have drilled this home. But we have offset this with plans to make the most of the beaches, snorkeling, boating opportunities, etc that don't exist in Minnesota. They are excited.
 
from reading this, you guys are in for a ride. congrats and good luck with everything
 
from reading this, you guys are in for a ride. congrats and good luck with everything

We've been told more than once that we are nuts. And maybe so. We are have put a lot of thought, planning and prayers into this, and it's something we have all agreed to tackle. When it's all over 10+ years from now, I hope we will look back and be glad we did it.
 
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:D Thanks for that.

I'm not joking - I took a practice MCAT once and had to leave early so I just randomly clicked on the answers for the Verbal passage and still managed to score a 5. A score of 5 is what you can get by random chance. It pretty much means that that whoever took might not even have understood what they were reading.
 
I won't take the time to comment on everything that has been said, except for the voiced concerns about my wife's ability to take standardized tests. I did mention that she was pregnant, but I didn't go into detail. Not that I'm going to expound too much more other than to say that it was a brutal pregnancy. She was sick the entire nine months and had complications towards the end, which is right when she took the MCAT.

Couldn't she have simply delayed the exam - even by a month or 2 and taken it once her pregnancy was over if it really was that brutal? This doesn't make sense.
 
Great deal being able to work remotely. I know another spouse down here who does the same thing, and the added money is really good for them. Sounds like you guys have covered your bases well.

As to the wait list for clinicals, I apologize for not being clear. I didn't mean to imply that you had said that, only that it was something common that people tend to say about Carib schools. Sorry about that.

Peds is a very, very workable goal, very attainable. If she does well, she will probably be able to match into a very good program as well. Oncology tends to be a very competitive specialty, but that's a future concern.

Congrats on the acceptance! Alas, I will be off the island in 3rd year when she starts, but best of luck. If you or she has a question, shoot me a message.
 
I'm sorry to say this but your wife scored a 5 on her language section of the MCAT (I think you meant the "verbal" section). I took a practice MCAT several years ago and I just randomly clicked the answers and managed to score a 5.This indicates that she has a serious language deficiency so much so that she might not even be able to understand the material in a medical textbook or in patient history.

Um, what? The material in a medical textbook is written in similiar English to everything you have ever read. It's not a foreign language, or Shakespeare. That's cool that you randomly clicked answers in a fit of boredom during a practice MCAT during the Bush Administration, but I don't think it will define this woman's medical career.

Also her physics is a 6 which is still below the average. You might think that her work ethics will allow her to pass, but a 6 means that she has a serious deficiency in her basic understanding of physics and general chemistry. The medical school curriculum will relie heavily on having a solid understanding of all these subjects in order to teach the material. If you wife is scoring below the average on any of the science section, that represents a serious handicap to the point that she may not even be able to pass her basic science classes and boards during the first 2 years of her medical studies.[/QUOTE]

Heavily on Physics and Chemistry? You're kidding, right? In two years of medical school, the only Physics we covered was Ohm's Law, LaPlace's Law, and Optics. Ohm's Law was one equation in Cardio, LaPlace was a couple in Cardio/Pulmonary, and Optics was a 50 minute lecture in the beginning of a Neuroscience vision block. General Chemistry.....? Trust me, no one was calculating moles or working on valence electrons. I think she will be just fine.
 
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I found your post very interesting and props for having gone into such detail before deciding your future. A vast majority of students don't do that and think that they can just walk their way to an MD by attending offshore schools. Honestly, i never bothered to read any of the posts that followed. Posters who repeatedly come here and "warn" prospective students about the "crime" they are about to commit by choosing a Caribbean school have too much time on their hands. It's not like these things haven't been said. A simple search would lead you to about a 100 posts regarding the pros/cons of attending an offshore school and life as an IMG. What matters is that it might be the most viable option for you at this time, nothing else.

Anyway, a couple of things i wanted to point out (more so since i attend one of those "easy to get into" schools, but "difficult to get through" schools). This past term, about a 100 odd kids dropped pathology 5 months (with a month left) into the course. 40 or so kids dropped microbiology after the midterms. So yes, the course load and the hours you need to put in are unbelievable. Which is why it might be a good idea for you to consider how much of a family your wife can have once she starts her studies. If anything, till basic sciences are over, you may also consider visiting her rather than actually living down there.

The only reason i say this is that certain terms require you to put in as many as 16-17 hours/day of studying. The stress level is unimaginable. Your wife is going to have to give undivided attention to her school work. Which might hinder with her capacity to take care of her family. Still, if you guys think it can be done, go for it. A very few people in my class actually have their families living with them. Although MANY are married/have kids (who mostly visit after midterms or maybe on long weekends). It all boils down to what your wife can handle best, but i just wanted to drop in my $0.02.

All the very best to you and your wife. Remember to take every word mentioned here with a grain of salt. :rolleyes:
 
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I'm sorry to say this but your wife scored a 5 on her language section of the MCAT (I think you meant the "verbal" section). This indicates that she has a serious language deficiency so much so that she might not even be able to understand the material in a medical textbook or in patient history.

This has to be one of the funniest things i've ever read on SDN.
 
  • Roughly 40% to 50% get their first choice of match. But keep in mind that these students are realistic about their "first choice" and usually don't apply to Johns Hopkins, Mayo, or Cleveland Clinic. But still, they are getting into the same programs as kids from second and third tier MD schools in the States, and in many cases are beating out the DO school grads.

  • Most of the others still match, just not their first choice. Keep in mind that some who did not get their first choice did, in fact, apply to the top tier programs in hopes of a miracle.

  • A certain percentage don't match at all. This is typically because their rotations were disastrous, usually due to personality reasons. They did fine in a classroom and on exams, but in an actual hospital, they just couldn't perform. Nobody would write them a letter of recommendation
sounds like your lack of understanding of how residency match works allowed this carib school to once again trick you with vague statistics that sound good but have no substance.

in this case "first choice" does not mean "of the schools they applied to" ...it means "of the schools they interviewed at". This doesn't reflect that the majority were not even granted an interview by their 1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc choice residency because they were carib students.

further, the fact that you are equating success of AUC students with that of DO and "2nd and 3rd tier" US MD schools shows that you went into this with an obvious bias wherein you wanted to find something positive to justify the decision you and your wife had already made. First of all there are no "tiers" in med school. Second, 95%+ of students at every US MD school get through med school in 4 years and match into a residency whereas that number for a carib school (other than SGU) is probably significantly less than 50%. Third, you insinuate that students who struggle at US MD schools are just allowed to pass ...this is ridiculous. The reason they aren't just kicked out like at carib schools is because US MD schools know that their students deserve to be in med school and therefore with some help they can be successful. On the other hand, the majority of AUC students don't belong in med school and haven't proven themselves capable ...therefore AUC has no problem just pocketing their tuition and kicking them out.

Finally, I think your wife is being extraordinarily selfish by dragging you and her 3 young children to a third world country to pursue a "dream" that she has proven herself not qualified to pursue. If she doesn't even want to put in the effort to retake the MCAT i highly doubt she will have the drive to navigate and succeed in this very difficult course. I feel sorry for your children. Besides, where are they going to go to school on this island? It would not have been as big of a deal had your kids been very young (< 5 y/o) but to pluck impressionable 10 and 12 year olds from their homes and exile them on an island for 2 years is borderline cruel.
 
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Finally, I think your wife is being extraordinarily selfish by dragging you and her 3 young children to a third world country to pursue a "dream" that she has proven herself not qualified to pursue. If she doesn't even want to put in the effort to retake the MCAT i highly doubt she will have the drive to navigate and succeed in this very difficult course. I feel sorry for your children. Besides, where are they going to go to school on this island? It would not have been as big of a deal had your kids been very young (< 5 y/o) but to pluck impressionable 10 and 12 year olds from their homes and exile them on an island for 2 years is borderline cruel.

Wow.
 
I know that by the tone of your original post and your replies you have pretty much made up your mind, and all you’re looking for is reassurance and confirmation of your already-made decision. However, I urge you to reconsider and first do the easiest and most obvious path to your career: retake the MCAT and re-apply to US med schools, MD and DO.

I don’t know you or your wife at all (obviously), but just with the information you’ve given us, there is some concern for your success at AUC. The MCAT is the least of your worries during a career in medicine, and if that was such an obstacle already, you really should think this through better. Everyone on SDN has an excuse (I was pregnant, I was depressed, my uncle was diagnosed with cancer, my cat Fluffy threw up the morning of the MCAT, I did great in high school and college and 25 minutes before the MCAT my undiagnosed learning disability manifested itself…). Bottom line, we all have to perform under pressure, and if your wife cannot do that with the MCAT she will struggle at AUC.

Yes, your wife was pregnant and blew the MCAT. Well, retake it! The MCAT is the first of many, many tests that have to be passed under pressure. Now you say that you’re moving to an island in the Caribbean with three little children, who may or may not adjust to the culture shock, with a wife that has to deal with a husband and three children, plus life out of the US, plus the pressure of not failing med school, plus having to do very well in her exams and the USMLE 1 and difficult clinical rotations, and USMLE 2 and USMLE 3, and……get the picture? If the MCAT was insurmountable already due to pressure of pregnancy, what’s going to happen at AUC?

Just think about it. I know it’s exciting to jump in head first into this adventure of going to AUC and becoming a pediatric oncologist, but use your maturity as a parent and think this through better. My advice (as already stated above), cool down, take a deep breath, regroup, re-take the MCAT and re-apply to US MD and DO schools, and then –and only then- if that doesn’t pan out then go to AUC.

Don’t worry about the age thing, that’s irrelevant (I just finished residency this past June…and I’m 42. Not a big deal).

Don't bother replying to my post, I'm not interested in a discussion, just giving you my opinion as someone who's been-there-done-that, with a family too. It's VERY DIFFICULT and VERY STRESSFUL without adding the extras of leaving the country and dealing with all that.
 
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As I said in my original post, my intentions here are to help save someone the time of doing all the digging, and to share all the data we've gleaned. More numbers....

AUC Retention Rate (students who began in 2009 and eventually graduated): 88%

AUC Residency Match Rates in 2011:

Matched: 86%
- Main Match: 62.1%
- Pre Match: 16.1%
- Post Match (not sure what that means): 7.8%

Did Not Match: 14%
- 11% No match
- 1% Not eligible to participate
- 2% Did not register for match

2001 AUC Residency Match By Specialty:

Anesthesiology: 2
Emergency Medicine: 2
Family Medicine: 57
Family Medicine/Rural: 1
General Surgery: 5
Internal Medicine: 38
Medicine/Pediatrics: 1
Medicine-Preliminary: 6
Medicine-Primary: 1
Obstetrics and Gynecology: 9
Pathology: 5
Pediatrics: 18
PM&R: 2
Psychiatry: 2
Surgery-Preliminary: 12
Transitional: 6

AUC Costs:

Total program costs from matriculation through graduation based on 2011-2012 award year rates.

Tuition: $169,550.00
Fees: $6,325.00
Room: $56,500.00
Board: $39,000.00
Books: $5,000.00
Supplies: $6,000.00
 
AUC Retention Rate (students who began in 2009 and eventually graduated): 88%

Because this number was so extraordinarily unbelievable I decided to do some due diligence and found....

First Academic year Retention Rate &#8211; 88% (students matriculating September 2009 &#8211; May 2010)

translation: 88% of students who matriculated in september 2009 were still around in may 2010...in other words 18% drop out at some point before the end of the first academic year. Also notice that they don't say that 88% passed first year which means they're clearly including people who failed and had to repeat first year because heck, they're still "retained" right? (source: http://aucmed.edu/consumer-info.html)

And before you misinterpret the other thing it says on that site, "6 year Graduation Rate &#8211; 75% (students matriculating September 2004 &#8211; May 2005)" isn't very impressive since it includes people who failed and had to repeat 1 or more years or failed step 1 at least once ...these people will most likely not get a residency or it might take them several years to find a residency spot noone else wants.

So I gather from this that you are either being paid to make this thread and mislead potential applicants or you're just not very bright. If it's the latter then you've done a good job of proving my previous assessment that you just want to justify a decision you already made and AUC has tons of bogus stats out there for you to misinterpret.
 
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So I gather from this that you are either being paid to make this thread and mislead potential applicants...

:D Dang. Ya got me. I'm an AUC plant.

I must compliment you on your fast editing skills. Before I could reply to your first ridiculous response, you had edited your post twice. That's some fast correcting skills you've got.
 
:D Dang. Ya got me. I'm an AUC plant.

I must compliment you on your fast editing skills. Before I could reply to your first ridiculous response, you had edited your post twice. That's some fast correcting skills you've got.

the theme and message of my post are still exactly the same. i just edited it for clarity and i added the part about the 75% graduation rate.

its funny how you don't actually respond to any substantial thing i say but it's ok, i'm not trying to convince you, i just think it's necessary to debunk your posts so that future applicants wouldn't be deceived.
 
the theme and message of my post are still exactly the same. i just edited it for clarity and i added the part about the 75% graduation rate.

its funny how you don't actually respond to any substantial thing i say but it's ok, i'm not trying to convince you, i just think it's necessary to debunk your posts so that future applicants wouldn't be deceived.

It's just that you "debunk" with so much emotion. That, along with the personal attacks you send my way make it seem like you are taking all this very personally... as if you have some sort of personal vendetta against off shore medical schools. According to you, my wife is selfish and lacks drive, we are going to imprison our kids on an island, and I'm not very bright. Your emotion and your personal attacks weakens your credibility.

Thank you, however, for your deep concern about future applicants. That is noble of you.
 
It's just that you "debunk" with so much emotion. That, along with the personal attacks you send my way make it seem like you are taking all this very personally... as if you have some sort of personal vendetta against off shore medical schools. According to you, my wife is selfish and lacks drive, we are going to imprison our kids on an island, and I'm not very bright. Your emotion and your personal attacks weakens your credibility.

Thank you, however, for your deep concern about future applicants. That is noble of you.

why would i have a "vendetta" against offshore schools? they are inconsequential as far as i'm concerned since their students aren't in direct competition with me. i am however very passionate about my view that these schools (except SGU) are huge scams ...the evidence clearly points to that. It upsets me that people would borrow 200k and end up with a worthless degree and no job several years down the line.

i'm sorry if my straight talk upset you, i just like to call it like i see it.
 
I think that skinMD does make a point here. Compared to US MD schools, no, 75% retention is not very good. However, I would not say that AUC is a huge scam, but SGU is not. They both have the same inherent problem - some students who should not be accepted to med school are given a chance. This ends up being the minority of the class, but it is true there is a sizable group. For the rest (myself included), there was something wrong with their undergrad med school apps. This indicates that those students won't be successful in medical school, but c'mon, it's not a foregone conclusion. Many students down here (myself included) perform very well in Basic Sciences and score well on Step I. I won't comment about clinicals, since I am in my last few months on the island.

The major difference, as I have said before, is that US MD schools provide a lot of resources for their students who struggle. At AUC, it's a little more sink or swim. Tutoring is available, counseling, etc. but at the end of the day, if you can't perform, you will get left behind. I don't think you can blame the school completely here; it's an inherent problem with the quality of some of the students accepted (but not a majority).

Finally, with an 86% Match Rate (and let's be realistic.....this is no where near the 98% US MD rate, and for AUC 70% is primary care), plenty of students are successful. But I don't think you can expect US MD standard of matching and retention if you are not going to accept US MD standard students. This isn't a scam, just a product of lower admissions standards. The student made the ultimate decision to come down here - the school gives them the opportunity to succeed if they take it and work hard.

I would also point out that many of the students who drop out "first year" drop out in the first month. They just can't adjust to the island, come off a wait list for a DO/MD school (depending on the semester), or fail their first set of exams and never come back.

I hope this clarifies a few things, and brings us all back to a civil conversation. skinMD and cjcrook BOTH make valid points about the Carib system (and hey, I am an AUCer, I gotta defend my school a little bit).
 
I know you made up your mind so I won't try to convince you or your wife. But for anyone else who maybe in a similar position, I would suggest that you reconsider your decision to apply to a carribean school and give MD and DO schools another try. In the end, the extra years of waiting and working are worth it in the long run. Your options are greater, your chances of success longer. If you have to do things now now now, then maybe medicine isnt right for you. Medicine is long and hard work, and gratification won't be for a long time.
 
I have nothing against Caribbean schools. I'm a 31 years old non-trad student. I'm currently a software developer for IBM. I am working remotely. I just took the MCAT 2 weeks ago while at 35 weeks pregnant. So I think it's reasonable to say I kinda have the experience, and kinda in the same shoe as your wife.

I think you and your wife should rethink your decision of going to Carib school. I think she should retake the MCAT and apply to US schools. If you have no children, then sure go ahead and go to AUC. I think it's a viable option for single person, or family w/o children. But in your situation, I think the stakes are too high.

It only takes about 3 months to study for the MCAT to get decent score. And it will delay her only 1 year. One year is nothing compared to the 7 years ahead. Just brace herself, bunker down for a few months and retake that one test, and she'll have a good chance of staying in the US. What's so terrible about it? Age definitely isn't a problem. And i'm sure she can't do worse than 20. If she does then she can kiss the dream good-bye. Use the MCAT retake as a dry-run for real med school. If your family can't manage the time and effort to retake the MCAT, how do you think you can deal w/ med school when it's 20 times harder than that?

If you go to AUC, like previous posts described, the road is definitely harder, both financially and emotionally.

1/ You will have to pay much more for your kids' schools, and much more for room/board/food/whatever. And health insurance as well. I know you have a job, and your family can be on your health insurance, but does that cover international? Are your children going to get a good education there? I'm not looking down at carib K12 system, but moving your kids around while they're young or adolescence may hamper their chance of being successful in their future academic career (I said "may"). They may have problem adapting to new environments (your family gonna be there for 2 years, then all of you have to move again when your wife do rotations and residency, right?)

2/ You get no family support. If you're in the US, and well your wife is super busy or your kids are sick or whatever, at least your relatives (if you have any) can fly there to give you a hand. I doubt that they'll make a trip to the carib when you're in need of help.

3/ You have a job now, and your manager agree to let you work remotely. How secure do you think your job is? With the current rate of outsourcing, I am fearful for the job security in software development. Since you gonna work remotely, you're gonna have to work extra hard so that you can prove you're a great asset. Your wife is gonna have to work extra hard (pretty much you can't count on her anymore and you're gonna have to be a single parent for a while) to stay competitive in school. So who are going to take care of the kids? What if you finish this project and got transferred to a different project where you're not able to perform well? What if there will be a organizational re-structuring in the company and you fall through the crack? All and all, what if you lose your job? You'll be facing paramount debt, and slim chance (if anything at all) of finding a new equivalent job that would allow you to work remotely, especially from carib. You won't even be able to collect unemployment benefits. I know it's a big dream, and it's good that your wife is following her dream, but you need to plan for worst case scenario.

Another thing is (and i know you're confident about your wife) WHAT IF she can't handle it and have to give up? Do you have a house in the US? Do you have to sell it to move to the carib? Do you have anywhere to come back to if the carib doesn't work out in the end? How much money have you set aside for her school and your safety net?

All and all, it's a scary situation that you and your family is getting into. Again, if it's just you two, then by all means go through with it, because if anything happens you can just pick up and go without complications. But with 3 children in tow, I think it's too risky to go to the carib vs spending 3 months studying for MCAT, wait an extra year then apply to a US school. You can build your family in the US while she's going to school. The carib to me sounds like a temporary home and not a place to build a family.

Anyway, the final decision is yours. If you already made up your mind and want to go to the carib, then good luck. I personally think long and hard about going back to school. I've invested a lot of time and effort. I had to take into account my husband's job, the future of my kid, the support that I will need from my family, and work my plan around that. I personally would not take such a big risk like you are going to. Like I said, I have to plan for the worst.
 
The thing that has always struck me about the match stats is that they include prelim years with no follow-on training. What do people do at that point? I think some of them must be hosed.

With the increased number of US MD/DO trainees, its really a bad idea to apply Carib without having completely failed locally. And, as for getting a 19 or 20 on the MCAT...thats really bad. If she does end up in med school (US or otherwise), she needs to recognize that she isn't a good test taker. That means shelling out for test-prep courses for each of the hurdles ahead. Failing Step exams will be painful (and career-ending for a Carib stud).

The emotion you see in responses is because people KNOW she's making a mistake and that you are encouraging that error. This path is hard enough, why are you so set on trying to make it harder?
 
The dumbest guy in my AUC class is now one of the busiest interventional cardiologists in the midwest. Go figure.:laugh:
 
J Panda: If you have to do things now now now, then maybe medicine isnt right for you. Medicine is long and hard work, and gratification won't be for a long time.
quoted for truth
 
A 6 year graduation rate of 75% is NOT GOOD. What are you going to do if your wife is one of the 25% that doesn't make it. Nobody who goes down there is planning to be part of that group, just like all the US students who end up in the bottom 1/2 of their classes in med school pretty much never planned on being there...

The MCAT is hard, but med school classes, clinicals and the USMLE are harder. USMLE depends somewhat more on memorizing though, versus problem solving (particularly Step 1). I am worried about her score of 5 on verbal reasoning, however. There is a ton of material to read and comprehend as part of the curriculum. What you are doing is extremely risky.

I think she should at least retake the MCAT once, to see if she can get into a US DO school. Or if she feels she must go to the Caribbean, I think you should stay in the US and she should consider going alone to the Caribbean. I don't have kids, though, and I know a lot of people with kids just wouldn't consider that. It's just that I fear she won't have time to study with multiple kids plus you there on the island with her. At least maybe you could consider waiting 6 months or a year, to see whether she makes it, before you make the large investment of quitting your job and moving all your kids down there. Perhaps you could just spend summer with her but let her go down for 1st semester alone.

clinical cardiology fellow (adult cardiology)
 
It only takes about 3 months to study for the MCAT to get decent score. And it will delay her only 1 year. One year is nothing compared to the 7 years ahead. Just brace herself, bunker down for a few months and retake that one test, and she'll have a good chance of staying in the US...Use the MCAT retake as a dry-run for real med school. If your family can't manage the time and effort to retake the MCAT, how do you think you can deal w/ med school when it's 20 times harder than that?
Also quoted for truth.
 
If your wife was pregnant during the MCAT and that caused her low score, why wouldn't she want to retake it? Especially since you insinuate that her score would be higher if it weren't for her condition. No offense, but it seems like to me that maybe you two don't think she can score higher than that and the "pregnancy" was an excuse.... If I had an extremely low score on an exam that was vital to my future and had the opportunity to retake it, I most definitely would. Sorry, but your story doesn't really sound believable to me...and some of your posts read like an AUC ad.
 
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My advice; GO FOR IT!

Do what ever you feel is just for you. To hell with everyone else. Retake the damn mcats and move on with your life.
 
I don't understand why your wife can't just retake the MCAT. Spend 1500 dollars on a review course with Kaplan or Princeton Review. The MCAT is hard but medical school is harder. What difference does it make if she puts off going to medical school for another year, theoretically? There are more and more American medical schools popping up all over the place. Getting a residency position will be more and more difficult for those coming in from off-shore. I had to take the MCAT 2x and went from a 27 to a 38.
 
I think she should at least retake the MCAT once, to see if she can get into a US DO school. Or if she feels she must go to the Caribbean, I think you should stay in the US and she should consider going alone to the Caribbean.

I'm a current AUC student (4th year).

Retaking the MCAT would be a good choice, in my opinion. Getting into a US school is always a better option. Period.

As for the DO route, there are a lot of pros and cons. I actually shadowed a DO in my hometown before attending AUC, and he told me that while he was fully licensed and able to do anything a MD does, a huge downside was having to always explain this to patients who might not know about Osteopathy. For me personally, I would rather have the MD.

Also, as a married student, I can attest to there being a very strong support organization for spouses and children on St. Maarten. Also, St. Maarten is a much nicer island (in terms of things to do & access to American/European comforts) than Dominica or Grenada.
 
To the OP:

You've obviously done a fair amount of research into AUC, and have reached the conclusion that it is a viable option for obtaining an MD. It is, but it is an option of last resort. Graduating from a US med school opens all kinds of doors. You have a much better chance of getting your pick of residency programs than someone who graduated from the Caribbean. I know you said your wife wants to be a pediatric oncologist, but she could change her mind halfway through med school, and end up wanting to do derm or plastics, which is basically impossible for a Caribbean grad to get into.

If you really feel that the only reason your wife's performance on the MCAT suffered was due to pregnancy, then it would make much better sense for her to retake the MCAT, and then apply to US med schools. I'm not knocking the Caribbean, by the way. I graduated from SGU, completed residency, and am now in private practice. I'm definitely satisfied with my education. But before I even considered SGU, I did everything I could to get into a US med school because I knew it was the best option.
 
As a quick bit of information about the realities of going to the Caribbean for medical school. I actually created an account just for this post.

First off I'd like to mention a small comment. It surprises me how many potential applicants and fellow students do not conduct in depth research about the life of med student or physician. Especially my Caribbean colleagues.

I can see that the original poster has done some significant research but here is some advice from a current Caribbean med student.
I'm a MS4 from Ross. I have a great gpa and a great Step I score. I'm Canadian, but currently engaged and will be getting my conditional green card prior to the match. I have a few other credentials that really improve my match application. I also had a strong Undergrad background and a decent MCAT score (31). Didn't match in Canada so I started Ross the following January.

However, even with all of this, I understand the limitation that arise from being a Caribbean medical graduate.

Now in comparison to my colleagues, those with a poor (<205) or even average step I score (215-223), matching is a difficulty. It's almost impossible to match in great residency programs. Even in family med or IM, the great programs are often out of reach.

I've spent most of my education afraid of the fact that I was not a US citizen applying for the match. That was a huge problem that incidentally worked out (for the right reasons and not because it helped with the match).
Those who do not have US citizenship or a green card, think again before applying. Your chances for residency are slim. It's actually even harder to get a residency back in Canada. I'm not sure about other countries.

I suggest you be realistic of the difficulties becoming a physician as a Caribbean graduate. The material is extensive and very tough to thoroughly understand in the time limit. A majority of it is self study; lectures are secondary to self study. The USMLE is very different from testing during medical school.
The time commitment is at minimum 7 years, but more likely to be 8-10 year [including residency and a potential fellowship]).
The MATCH is also changing in the upcoming years. This poses increased matching difficulties for IMG's (FMG's included)

The benefit is that on the island you are isolated and can spend a huge amount of time studying. In comparison to our AMG colleagues, we do not have to deal with the realities of life as much. It's easier to forget about the problems of everyday life because you end up leaving that life at home. This factor is a huge benefit.

This entire post seems to be a downer, but I'm trying to highlight the reality of the obstacles one faces. The Caribbean pathway is a viable option, but one that most likely does not provide all the opportunities associated with being an AMG (MD or DO)

I would have had an easier time had I reapplied to Canadian or US Md school. I even considered reapplying and starting basic sciences over again in Canada after receiving my step score. But I had met someone and decided that a relationship with her was something I wanted more then re-applying.

I'm glad with how things have turned out. I do believe that Ross provided me the opportunity to test my limit and I'm extremely glad that I was able to persevere through the crap. I believe that this may have been the only path that truly made me test my self and allowed me to become aware of my underlying strength. This fact along with many others is why I'm glad I'm on this path.

Final words with a typical scenario.
My advice is to research the field of medicine as a lifestyle and the downfalls of being a Caribbean graduate. Know that you work hard for less opportunities and if you are okay with it. 1 year wasted reapplying to US schools is still a good investment in your future.

Here is the most likely scenario:
-Not all students get through basic science. Many flunk out or leave first semester. You are only able to rely on yourself, their is a severe lack of support from the faculty. Friends and colleagues can only help you so much because time is valuable and most of us are using every minute to learn the material.
-Material is not memorized. It must be learned, even the theoretical stuff. The more time you spend understanding the material, the better you will retain it. Often material is presented too fast for you to actually follow along in lectures. It may be better to learn at your own pace and research as you go along. I don't know how to compare the teaching between American and Caribbean schools, but I can say that a majority of the material is not taught well. It wasn't a huge problem for me because I was always the type to learn material on my own.
- Life on the island can be tough and you can feel isolated. Raising and family and taking care children can be a lot to deal with.
- The step is your make or break exam. Destroying that beast will really take a load off your shoulders (240+). Failing it can mean severe restrictions on your medical careers future.
-Step II: you need to repeat your score from step I, or score much higher if you did poorly on step I.
-Throw in Step III prior to your application to be competitive. This may not be possible though.
-IMG's need to apply to well over 100 residency program PER residency type. Pray for at least 10+ interviews. AMG's have to apply less to get a residency.
-If you don't have American citizenship, apply to ALL programs in relevant fields that provide visa's.

I have more to write, but this entire post rambles on and I should just add any additional info if requested.

Other FMG's more then welcome to comment or suggests improvement.
 
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Hey, thanks for the detailed post. I am a Canadian student preparing for med school. I already know that is is extremely difficult to match a residency in Canada. My question is how hard is it for a Canadian (from Carribean) to match a residency in the U.S?
 
And again, their students are landing residency programs that are on-par with DO schools and tier 2 and 3 US med schools.

I realize this thread is old, but someone bumped it two days ago, so I
might as well comment. The top DO schools have substantially less impressive ACGME match lists than any US MD school. The top Caribbean schools have substantially less impressive match lists than most, if not all, of the DO schools. And the DOs have the AOA match to fall back on. Not a ton of AOA specialty spots, true, but any DO grad can get a fan practice slot in the AOA. Many go unfilled each year, and Carib grads are ineligible for
these spots.

Define on-par. Is matching internal medicine at a community program being an avg student at AUC the same as an avg US MD applicant matching it at Mount Sinai or Pitt? No, it isn't. Even the person finishing 155 out of 155 in their US MD or US DO class can match family med or peds somewhere. If you are in the bottom 20% of the class at AUC then you either fail out or fail to match. In that case, failing out is better because you save time and accrue less debt. The chance of not matching from a Carib school is real.

Simply put, students at AUC have almost no margin for error. Your chances of failing of are at least 10x greater than your chances of getting a competitive residency. At no US MD school is that the case, and it also isn't the case at most DO schools.

This post isn't for you. You probably left the forum a long time ago, convinced that your wife (with her 20 mcat and 5 verbal subscore, which show an alarming lack of preparedness for med school) is somehow gonna rock her boards and get a general surgery residency or something. This post is for all prospective applicants to Carib schools. Beware. They are for profit, so they have an incentive to lie to you to take your money. US MD schools don't have that problem. Their mission is to train physicians. The mission of Carib schools is to make money.

Regarding the impressive board scores touted by some Carib schools, these are deceptive. First off, kids that are most likely to fail are screened out and not allowed to take step 1. Secondly, many of these schools prep you intensely for at least 4 months so you can do well on it. Some kids take a semester off and prep for it for 9+ months, same as the IMGs. US MD students get 8 weeks max, DO students get even less. Double 99s look substantially less impressive in that context, and I'm sure residency program directors know about this.
 
Regarding the impressive board scores touted by some Carib schools, these are deceptive. First off, kids that are most likely to fail are screened out and not allowed to take step 1. Secondly, many of these schools prep you intensely for at least 4 months so you can do well on it. Some kids take a semester off and prep for it for 9+ months, same as the IMGs. US MD students get 8 weeks max, DO students get even less. Double 99s look substantially less impressive in that context, and I'm sure residency program directors know about this.

I saw this, mostly because I peruse the Carib section when insomnia strikes, and wanted to comment on this portion only. I more or less agree with everything else you wrote, as you can see from my above posts. Here is what I will say. I discussed how students get "screened out" from taking Step 1 in an above post. I can tell you, for a fact, that one student did not pass the "internal exam" (which is an NBME comprehensive) at AUC last semester. One. I know, because I was there, have since left the island, taken Step 1, and am now in clinicals. This student was then told to take a review course, and then take the exam again. I hear a lot about Carib schools trying to deceive people based on the comp exam, and what is deceptive is how sinister some people make it sound. It's not. One student.

As far as time off to take Step 1. I took 7 weeks. I am not sure where this "4 months" of board prep is from, but at AUC I definitely did not get this. We had 5 days of Kaplan review, and that was it, along with the Kaplan books and Qbank. I am not sure what other schools do, but this definitely isn't the case at SGU. Not sure on Ross, but I don't think so either. I will admit that students get around 12 weeks MAX to study. Some do take the full 12. If you try to take more than this, you need to explain to the school what your extenuating circumstance is. Now, let me explain to you why this is a big deal. The entire time you are studying for Step 1, you are off financial aid. Which means that you are eating into the grace period on your federal loans, and could end up in re-payment. I personally have no idea how I would begin paying back my med school debt while studying for Step for 9 months. That's just nuts, and in no way realistic. So, this is why the 9 months of studying for a Carib med student is a myth.
 
Also, I wanted to add one more thing. I mean this in no way negatively, but do you know how hard it is for ANYONE to get a "99"? I put it in quotes because two digit scores no longer exist. Don't let SDN fool you......mathematically, not a whole lot of people score 235+. I know the USMLE forum is filled with 255+ (which I admit, used to scare the hell out of me when I was studying for Step), but this is the extreme exception. Especially considering two guys from my class scored 260+, and these guys worked crazy crazy hard.The reason for this is it takes a ton of hard work. I know, because I scored 235+ (haha, and no, unfortunately not 250+). Now, this isn't a "look how smart I am" post, it's simply me saying that if a residency director looks down on a 235+, I don't know what to tell them. They have the ability to look at when I left the island, and when I took Step 1. They can then do the math from there to see how long I studied. Now, if they want to quibble about other aspects of Carib grads, that's a conversation for another day.
 
Also, I wanted to add one more thing. I mean this in no way negatively, but do you know how hard it is for ANYONE to get a "99"? I put it in quotes because two digit scores no longer exist. Don't let SDN fool you......mathematically, not a whole lot of people score 235+. I know the USMLE forum is filled with 255+ (which I admit, used to scare the hell out of me when I was studying for Step), but this is the extreme exception. Especially considering two guys from my class scored 260+, and these guys worked crazy crazy hard.The reason for this is it takes a ton of hard work. I know, because I scored 235+ (haha, and no, unfortunately not 250+). Now, this isn't a "look how smart I am" post, it's simply me saying that if a residency director looks down on a 235+, I don't know what to tell them. They have the ability to look at when I left the island, and when I took Step 1. They can then do the math from there to see how long I studied. Now, if they want to quibble about other aspects of Carib grads, that's a conversation for another day.

Double 99s in the 8 weeks or less is impressive. 4 months or even 9 months as I have heard of some students as well as IMG taking? Just doesn't seem as impressive to me. I have seen SGU students post on ValueMD before that they took 4 months to prep for boards.
 
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