What Will Happen to Undocumented Doctors?

[Lucca]

So call your senator/congressman, rally for change.
Breaking the law in my opinion isn't a good way to go about it, and unfortunately we only have so much room.
That's just reality, you can't save everyone, you can't help everyone. As sad as that is, that is just life.

DACA was a great step in the right direction. That *is* the change, though those protections should be made permanent. I was in high school when the immigration marches were going on and I was a part of them in Houston. I signed the petitions, wrote the letters, voted in every election since I was 18, local or national. That *is* change. What we dont want is moving in the opposite direction, where we are using violence to solve a non-problem as opposed to changing the way the government works to actually help people.

I dont harbor any illusions about saving the world. I just want more progress in the right direction and no regression, which is precisely the fear that inspired this thread to begin with I suspect.

I'm also perfectly fine with people disagreeing with me. I understand not everyone has the same views as me visavis what constitues rights, human rights, or obligations to the law. What I wont tolerate is people outright lying about something that is of absolute greatest importance to a great number of people in this country; not that you did that, I'm referring to the tax thing that took up like 50% of this thread.

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[aalamruad]

ok? My reply was in regards to undocumented workers which doctors fall under. My point is this. If you come here illegally, you should get deported. If you pay taxes while here, that's cool of you. But don't try to turn paying taxes into an excuse for justifying your stay here when you came illegally.

Its like if someone made a million bucks off a scam and that person then donated 100,000 to charity. Cool that you donated to charity but your original crime of committing a scam doesn't go away. You broke the law.

The undocumented doctors being referred to in this thread were DACA kids.

An infant who came here "illegally" didn't actually do anything illegal. It's insane to compare infants who were brought to the US illegally to scam artists who stole a million dollars... I won't even entertain that notion with further discussion.

I agree with the bolded.

But I disagree with this.

Mexico's immigration policies are very relevant because when people cry out about America being intolerant, xenophobic etc. due to enforcing its immigration policy, they should take a good look at what Mexico is doing even though they are responsible for millions of illegal immigrants entering America. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Mexico's immigration policies don't change my opinions about how we should treat children in America.

 

[Astra]

It's insane to compare infants who were brought to the US illegally to scam artists who stole a million dollars...

Good thing I'm not.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

ok? My reply was in regards to undocumented workers which doctors fall under. My point is this. If you come here illegally, you should get deported. If you pay taxes while here, that's cool of you. But don't try to turn paying taxes into an excuse for justifying your stay here when you came illegally.

Its like if someone made a million bucks off a scam and that person then donated 100,000 to charity. Cool that you donated to charity but your original crime of committing a scam doesn't go away. You broke the law.



I agree with the bolded.



But I disagree with this.

Mexico's immigration policies are very relevant because when people cry out about America being intolerant, xenophobic etc. due to enforcing its immigration policy, they should take a good look at what Mexico is doing even though they are responsible for millions of illegal immigrants entering America. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

So if you were a childhood arrival without documentation, you'd self-deport, right?

 

[GoodWillShunting]

Wrong quote

 

[GoodWillShunting]

Mexico's immigration policies are very relevant because when people cry out about America being intolerant, xenophobic etc. due to enforcing its immigration policy, they should take a good look at what Mexico is doing even though they are responsible for millions of illegal immigrants entering America. Seems pretty hypocritical to me.

Very relevant perhaps only in this sense: ever stop to think that many of Mexico's policies (perhaps including immigration, if you really must), is exactly why many (not all, but many) choose instead to come to the United States? In that case, sure, it's relevant. Otherwise, "They do it, so why are people angry when I do it?" Is an elementary school argument.



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[Major procrastinator]

www.theatlantic.com/video/index/515466/what-will-happen-to-undocumented-doctors/

What are your thoughts regarding undocumented doctors? I wanted to ask because I was browsing Reddit, and the general vibe that I got from /r/medicalschool seems to be hostility towards undocumented medical students. They are clearly intelligent and talented, but they are in a limbo that they cannot get out of.

I do not think its fair that they take up jobs that citizens, residents and people with visas can get.

people who are here legally and did everyhing the right way and deserve what they earn.

to me its like skipping the boards and getting residency. why should you get to "skip the line" and jump right in when everyone does it the right way. its not fair at all. go home, file the paperwork and do it legally.

 

[Major procrastinator]

No one is stealing anyone's spot in med school, because no one has the right to a spot in the first place. Med schools have the right and responsibility to accept those they deem most fit to serve patients in the future, and they certainly don't have a duty to favor certain applicants because they were born above an imaginary line.

Family A illegally moves to the US from Mexico and gives birth to child B a year later. Family A doesn't pay taxes or contribute to US society in any way over the next 20 years, but child B has the right to go to med school. Family C gives birth to child D in Mexico and illegally moves to the US a year later. Family C contributes to US society over the next 20 years, but D shouldn't be allowed to go to med school even if s/he is a stronger applicant than B? We should punish D for a decision his/her parents made when s/he was an infant? Please explain to me why that makes any sense.

When the foundation of these immigration laws is so arbitrary and illogical, and when patient outcomes are on the line, it's time to recognize that laws and ethics aren't the same thing.

 

[aalamruad]

illegal is illegal, send them all back home.

why is there even a conversation about all this nonsense

if you or your family came over here illegally you should all have to do it the right way. running over the border and popping out a kid is garbage.

my family did it the right way, we have buisnesses and we pay taxes.

i hate all this **** that illegals think they deserve better. you have a country and if you dont like it file the papers and come the right way.

if you rape someone are there rules that people should forgive to make it legal? hell no

they need to stop taking jobs in general, they dont pay taxes, they sneak "past the line" then they act like they are treated u fairly. **** that

Lol

 

[Stagg737]

I actually completely disagree. I went to another Jesuit school with a close relationship with Loyola, know a few people who go there, and got into the med school, visited multiple times, chatted with various faculty, etc. (but ended up going somewhere else for financial reasons). The DACA policy is VERY in line with the Jesuit mission and Catholic social teaching, on which the medical school's mission rests. Of course, the individual students and staff may have their own opinion, but it's certainly not a stretch for the institution itself.

I guess I'm wondering what your experience is with the institution that makes you feel differently.

I'm not saying their DACA policy doesn't fit their stated mission. I'm saying the policies they actually enforced and practiced weren't in line with their stated mission.

Example: I used to work closely with some of their clinical staff who were supposedly part of outreach programs, but only participated in them 2-3 days of the year. One even stated he just did it so he could add a community outreach program to his CV. Another example is a friend I met after college who had took their younger sibling to Loyola's student run clinic a few times and said that volunteers there were rude and pretty much acted like they were being forced to be there.

I'm not trying knock anyone that goes to Loyola or say that they don't have good intentions. I'm just trying to point out that there's a difference between how policies and missions are meant to be implemented and how they actually are in reality. For me though, I felt strongly enough that I withdrew my app once I received an acceptance at another school.

 

[cellsaver]

.

 

[mcloaf]

illegal is illegal, send them all back home.

why is there even a conversation about all this nonsense

if you or your family came over here illegally you should all have to do it the right way. running over the border and popping out a kid is garbage.

my family did it the right way, we have buisnesses and we pay taxes.

i hate all this **** that illegals think they deserve better. you have a country and if you dont like it file the papers and come the right way.

if you rape someone are there rules that people should forgive to make it legal? hell no

they need to stop taking jobs in general, they dont pay taxes, they sneak "past the line" then they act like they are treated u fairly. **** that

...stay classy .

 

[JungleeBilli]

Did any of the foreign students or the families contribute tax dollars to subsidizing of the US schools? Dreamers cost the US taxpayer a lot of money just for education. With the average cost being about $10K a year... times 13 = $130,000. That does not include the cost of subsidizing their undergrad and medical school. Not sure how any of this benefits americans. It certainly does not seem to be due to compassion for the poor because they are everywhere. And if we expect to put America first -- before foreign countries in getting healthcare, it does not seem to translate into putting Americans first with regard to education.

Are you saying Mexican citizens children are NOT given citizenship through "blood"? And if not they were born in Mexico so why do they not have Mexican citizenship through "soil"?

Lol that's funny because there are citizens who pay no taxes and still benefit from these meanwhile majority of dreamers pay taxes and have to reapply every 2 years for a $500 fee that again goes back into the country.

 

[bannie22]

I hope those that are undocumented are removed until they appropriately address their legal issues. I think it is only fair to everyone that they make an effort to rectify their immigration status. They have been making an effort regarding their education all their lives I can only see it as tardiness to not take care of something much less complex

 

[nuk]

If they come here illegally, they should just go back to their home country. Having education here in US is not a good excuse not to comply with law.

 

[bannie22]

Hoping you're trolling lol because it is decidedly more complex for an immigrant here illegally to "rectify" their status than it is to go to school. What exactly do you think someone here illegally has to do to get a legal immigration status?

apply for status and follow simple instructions in english but also commonly provided in multiple other languages

 

[username456789]

Hoping you're trolling lol because it is decidedly more complex for an immigrant here illegally to "rectify" their status than it is to go to school.

So?

 

[bannie22]

Easy there guy, I'm not saying anything about what they should do. Just stating facts about the experiences of dreamers. I'm sure you're smart enough to form your own opinions.

How long do you think it takes for someone to get approved for legal permanent resident status, particularly someone from Central America? Do you know how much it costs or what the likelihood of getting approved is? Do you know if they're allowed to stay in the US (presumably with their parents and siblings) while they do so, or do they have to go to another country where they might not even know the language or remember having lived?

Seems like very straightforward rules. Good luck.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

For the purpose of tax revenue, it's better to put these kids in a position to make 6 figure income than to have them work low paying jobs.

 

[WingedOx]

That is messed up that they were allowed into medical school without documentation. Especially when so many qualified US citizens are unable to get spots

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Hopefully someone has already pointed out that if these kids thru all the **** they've had to go through got into school over you, that says as much about your own qualifications, or lack thereof, as theirs

 

[JJRousseau]

You are right that no one has a right to a certain spot in the first place. But if a med school receives funding from our tax payer dollars, I find it insulting to give preferential treatment to illegal immigrants. If it is a private med school that receives no taxpayer funding, they can do whatever they want as long as it doesn't break any laws.

As a taxpayer, I'm more interested as a citizen in having a system whereby we have the best doctors in the workforce to provide care for myself and fellow citizens, than that those doctors be citizens themselves. Why should we, as Americans, have to settle for a practicing doctor that isn't as good, simply because they were an American citizen?