What will Pain Medicine Look Like Under Socialized Medicine?

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Trump's attitude does not define the "country's attitude". He's just one guy doing a job.
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Ducttape said:
I find it odd that some of you never had the anger and hate “back in the day”.

Like it or not, like trump or not, I have not felt this level of political animosity since before trump.

And I lived through Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bushes, Obama... I despised the policies of some of them. But... Besides Nixon, Each one of those presidents I felt always had the good of the country in their hearts, and was willing to work across the aisle to get stuff done. And race or sex was never an issue. Not with trump.

All this s&@t started with trump.

He is unique, that’s for sure.
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Funny that half the nation is angry our president isnt a traitor. The past administration did a great job of politicizing and weaponizing our federal agencies. Meanwhile the left walks off the socialist cliff, and wonder why nobody wants to work with them?!!
 
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Ducttape said:
I find it odd that some of you never had the anger and hate “back in the day”.

Like it or not, like trump or not, I have not felt this level of political animosity since before trump.

And I lived through Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, Bushes, Obama... I despised the policies of some of them. But... Besides Nixon, Each one of those presidents I felt always had the good of the country in their hearts, and was willing to work across the aisle to get stuff done. And race or sex was never an issue. Not with trump.

All this s&@t started with trump.

He is unique, that’s for sure.
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It is George Bush's fault.

Jimmy Carter: Why He Failed (written in 78).

The media frenzy is driving this, not the public. The public is just unable to tune out the banging drums, 24/7 anti trump.
 
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Trump will give a 1000 word speech and media will throw a tantrum about 3 of those words while ignoring the other 997....and take them out of context too!!!
 
Doctodd said:
who is black frankenstein? Your desire for racism exceeds the supply. And inventing hate crimes is apparently worth doing.....i.e. Smollett, Covington kids

Trump is a crook?....says your liberal useful idiots on TV?...guess he should be in jail. Why isnt he? He is probably the most scrutinized person on the planet. Do you need another 2 years to find evidence?
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Well you are beyond hope when you can't realize what a Sleaze your president has been in business and his current position.
 
You should stick with Brennan and Clapper....I’ll switch her from the “hated” section to the “loved” section for you today. I bet CNN is headlining with that story. TDS is rampant I tell ya.
 
Yes I always hated Barbara Bush, lmao...

Lets see what full report says ...if we ever get to...don't think you will be so smug then
 
Yes, good article (drusso’s)

And now that liberal “northerners” are fighting back, conservative “southerners” are increasing their name-calling and attempts to belittle liberals.
 
lonelobo said:
Too bad President Birther never saw it that way
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I thought Don Lemon brought up an interesting point a few weeks ago. He was actually talking about Kamala. She has some African DNA but I believe she's like first gen American.

Is she African American? Should she get reparations?

Same really true with Obama, although his wife is a descendent of slaves, giving him additional cred.

Not trying to argue with you here, I just wonder what you think about it.
 
hyperalgesia said:
I thought Don Lemon brought up an interesting point a few weeks ago. He was actually talking about Kamala. She has some African DNA but I believe she's like first gen American.

Is she African American? Should she get reparations?

Same really true with Obama, although his wife is a descendent of slaves, giving him additional cred.

Not trying to argue with you here, I just wonder what you think about it.
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kamala is a panderer. reparations are f$cking ludicrous, and she is only not dismissing it out of hand b/c she wants the black vote.

good work by drusso posting something from the Atlantic. there is some common ground....
 
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Ducttape said:
Odd then that he can’t say 3 words like “I condemn neo-Nazis”....
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It’s a frequent strategy for liberals to condemn someone for not saying something the way they want just to promote hate. Smh
 
hyperalgesia said:
I thought Don Lemon brought up an interesting point a few weeks ago. He was actually talking about Kamala. She has some African DNA but I believe she's like first gen American.

Is she African American? Should she get reparations?

Same really true with Obama, although his wife is a descendent of slaves, giving him additional cred.

Not trying to argue with you here, I just wonder what you think about it.
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who really cares? if she was born in the US, she is a US citizen. lets not do this birther bulls(*$ again...

and doctodd - fwiw, it is not. if you cant condemn something or someone so vile, you are condoning them and their activity.


Check out this story on CNN: https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2019/03/28/reality-check-donald-trump-political-opponents-evil-sot-vpx-avlon-newday.cnn
 
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Ducttape said:
who really cares? if she was born in the US, she is a US citizen. lets not do this birther bulls(*$ again...
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You're the one trying to bring birther into this. My point is when you say that Kamala and Obama are African American, you are sort of undermining the importance of the cultural scars of slavery imo. Again, Obama, since he married a descendant of slaves really does have a stake. But Kamala, although she's technically African American, as is a Nigerian who just was awarded citizenship yesterday, does not have the same cultural gravitas that someone who has a legacy of slavery in their culture. I mean like none at all.

Like I said, not really trying to argue here, I just think it's interesting. Everybody says "We need to have the 'conversation', so here I am...
 
read your own post. not really pertinent. bringing up where he was born and whether he is an American was a dirty ploy by "President Birther" - which is an insult to trump, not a reason to retarget Obama for something proven definitively to be fake news. now you are associating Kamala with the fake birther claims regarding Obama by semi-equating the two situations.

fwiw, she was born in Oakland California.
 
Ducttape said:
read your own post. not really pertinent. bringing up where he was born and whether he is an American was a dirty ploy by "President Birther" - which is an insult to trump, not a reason to retarget Obama for something proven definitively to be fake news. now you are associating Kamala with the fake birther claims regarding Obama by semi-equating the two situations.

fwiw, she was born in Oakland California.
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US media react to Obama 'sexism'

commies...
 
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Ducttape said:
read your own post. not really pertinent. bringing up where he was born and whether he is an American was a dirty ploy by "President Birther" - which is an insult to trump, not a reason to retarget Obama for something proven definitively to be fake news. now you are associating Kamala with the fake birther claims regarding Obama by semi-equating the two situations.

fwiw, she was born in Oakland California.
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You have a very strange brain.
 
Will Physicians Become a US Commodity?

"Socialism can be defined simply as a stage somewhere between capitalism and communism. This political ideology enables ownership of the means of production, which are inputs– like raw materials, facilities, goods or even people — which generate revenue. In a socialist system, a central power controls the means of production and the goods produced, which may someday include U.S. doctors."
 
I just remembered the hysterical protests over judge Kavanaugh because he was supposedly chosen to protect Trump when he was indicted for collusion.

It's amazing how fragile democracy is.
 
drusso said:
Will Physicians Become a US Commodity?

"Socialism can be defined simply as a stage somewhere between capitalism and communism. This political ideology enables ownership of the means of production, which are inputs– like raw materials, facilities, goods or even people — which generate revenue. In a socialist system, a central power controls the means of production and the goods produced, which may someday include U.S. doctors."
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What Is Socialism? A History Of The Word Used As A Scare Tactic In American Politics

Letter: Don't fall for Conservatives' socialism scare tactics
Over the years, other programs such as Social Security and Medicare were called socialist by Republicans when they were first proposed. For example, President Franklin D. Roosevelt was branded a "Communist" when he urged Congress to pass Social Security in 1934. In the 1960s Ronald Reagan and George H.W. Bush condemned Medicare as socialism. But today even Republican politicians are usually hesitant to criticize these programs or propose to cut or eliminate them because they make life better for people. Of course Republicans no longer call them socialism, they are “just services that the state offers.”

But Republicans continue the tired, century-old practice of screaming “socialism” whenever they see a progressive proposal they don’t like. As a new generation of politicians tries to find solutions to problems that Republicans have ignored for decades, we again hear the cry “socialism” from President Trump, Gov. Burgum, Sen. Cramer, Rep. Armstrong and others. They are hoping that the word will have negative connotations for most people. They hope that people will forget that they are already benefiting from many socialist-type programs such as those mentioned earlier.
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US media react to Obama 'sexism'

commies...
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Conservatives should figure out there is a bunch of real stuff to be complaining about, and much of this nonsense simply makes them look like they are back in junior high.
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ultimately, the irony of it all when the titular head of their side has been renowned for saying "Grab ’em by the p($$y. You can do anything."
 
drusso said:
www.wsj.com

Opinion | If You Like Socialism, You’ll Love the VA

Cradle-to-grave care for American veterans and their families. How’s it working out?
www.wsj.com www.wsj.com
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americans conflate the good socialist countries (ALLIES & NATO) with the bad communistic/dictatorial socialism of USSR, Russia, China, Venezuela, cuba (although their population health is quite good), Saudi Arabia, ...
lotsa love for democratic socialist healthcare in Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Norway, France, Spain, Iceland, Finland, Italy (it's complicated), Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, Japan? ... UK is on hiatus
VA was not and is not constructed to replicate those country's systems
 
I don't have evidence for this but I suspect the most efficient delivery systems are the most decentralized.

I would like an economic comparison between a VA community based outpatient clinic and a local community health clinic. In the analysis, the VA would obviously need to include the burden of supporting local, state, regional, and national bureaucracies, pharmacy, IT support, leaders, administrators, and their salaries, travel, etc,,
 
Gauss said:
americans conflate the good socialist countries (ALLIES & NATO) with the bad communistic/dictatorial socialism of USSR, Russia, China, Venezuela, cuba (although their population health is quite good), Saudi Arabia, ...
lotsa love for democratic socialist healthcare in Switzerland, Sweden, Denmark, Germany, Austria, Norway, France, Spain, Iceland, Finland, Italy (it's complicated), Canada, Australia, NZ, Singapore, Japan? ... UK is on hiatus
VA was not and is not constructed to replicate those country's systems
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I believe Chavez/Meduro in Venezuela meet the definition of "democratic socialists". They were elected by popular vote. Not saying that our version would meet the same fate but I don't think AOC and you can say for sure that it won't. The outcome is probably most determined by underlying culture.

I'm not optimistic. Our culture is a world away from Japanese culture...
 
hyperalgesia said:
I believe Chavez/Meduro in Venezuela meet the definition of "democratic socialists". They were elected by popular vote. Not saying that our version would meet the same fate but I don't think AOC and you can say for sure that it won't. The outcome is probably most determined by underlying culture.

I'm not optimistic. Our culture is a world away from Japanese culture...
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Come on now

Venezuela's Maduro re-elected amid outcry over vote

https://www.electoralintegrityproje...tions-venezuelas-failed-presidential-election

Did Chávez Win the Elections? Is Venezuela a Democracy?
 
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Ducttape said:
Well, trump started out as a Democrat. Hitler started out as only a nationalist. What are you trying to prove?
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My point is that Jeff Bezos just gave his wife 35b and is still the richest man in the world. The fact that someone can get so rich as a self made person is one of the many things that make our country the best place in the world.
 
but its highly unlikely for any individual in the US to move up SES.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/economic-ladder-no-harder-to-climb-today-u-s-report-finds-1.2508409

by this study, interestingly, poor people who live in the South are far less likely to move up in class.

and this:
Hendren emphasizes that it's still harder to move from poverty to affluence in the United States than in most other wealthy countries. In a 2012 study of 22 countries, economist Miles Corak of the University of Ottawa found that the United States ranked 15th for social mobility among wealthy countries. Only Italy and the Britain ranked lower.
"In some sense, how could it have gotten worse?" Hendren said. "It's not like we're losing the American Dream. We never really had it."
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Ducttape said:
but its highly unlikely for any individual in the US to move up SES.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/economic-ladder-no-harder-to-climb-today-u-s-report-finds-1.2508409

by this study, interestingly, poor people who live in the South are far less likely to move up in class.

and this:
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That article seems...odd.

I'll be honest, almost 10% going from bottom 20% to top 20% isn't too bad. That said, I'd like to see figures on the bottom 20% going to one of the 3 middle 20% brackets. That seems more doable generally speaking.

Now if that's what the graph at the top shows then great. That's up to 60% in the best areas and at worst 25-35%.

There's also this: Yes, the US middle class is shrinking, but it's because Americans are moving up. And no, Americans are not struggling to afford a home. - AEI
 
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how is a billionaire a policy failure, when each is a policy success for republicans?

the policy failures are the ppl under the federal poverty level
 
hyperalgesia said:
This plot twist is unacceptable.
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Mueller is a Republican operative bought and paid for by the Russians. Duh.

What we need is President Trump in jail, and yesterday. And Billary in the oval office, right now!

The feels deem it so. Damn these annoying $40,000,000 investigations and their annoying conclusions!
 
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now the Democrats and their propaganda arm are saying AG Barr is not trustworthy ....btw he said spying DID occur to the Trump administration, which CNN made sure to discredit by headlining in big letters (WITHOUT EVIDENCE), even though he said he would not comment on the evidence at this time.......so CNN is concerned with evidence all of a sudden?

During yesterday's Barr hearings he made Democrats look like children by saying he would color code each redaction and post a little note about why it needed to be redacted. It was hilarious.

Also Candace Owens was under attack by Democrats on the hill and they purposely connected her to Hitler with some comments they took out of context. Her response was along the lines of "you think black people are stupid and wont read my entire comments, and they wont see how you are tyring to buy the black vote?" She is a young, intelligent, black woman btw, but doesnt fit the Democrat narrative. #walkaway
 
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Doctodd said:
now the Democrats and their propaganda arm are saying AG Barr is not trustworthy ....btw he said spying DID occur to the Trump administration, which CNN made sure to discredit by headlining in big letters (WITHOUT EVIDENCE), even though he said he would not comment on the evidence at this time.......so CNN is concerned with evidence all of a sudden?

During yesterday's Barr hearings he made Democrats look like children by saying he would color code each redaction and post a little note about why it needed to be redacted. It was hilarious.

Also Candace Owens was under attack by Democrats on the hill and they purposely connected her to Hitler with some comments they took out of context. Her response was along the lines of "you think black people are stupid and wont read my entire comments, and they wont see how you are tyring to buy the black vote?" She is a young, intelligent, black woman btw, but doesnt fit the Democrat narrative. #walkaway
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I'm not sure how intelligent she actually is.

Owens whole thing was trying to say that nationalism isn't always a bad thing. In that vein, she was trying to claim that Hitler wasn't a nationalist (spoiler: he was).

Even ignoring the stupidity of trying to say Hitler wasn't a nationalist, nationalism has a problem. That problem is human nature which will likely always lead to racism.

Technically speaking nationalism doesn't have to be racist. But it probably always will be because you have to define whatever country's values in some way. Once you define those values then you will have people who don't fit into that definition. They become the Other, and we all know how well history has treated the Other.

Its one of those things that if human nature was changed, maybe nationalism could work. Until then, it will almost always lead to problems.
 
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VA Hopeful Dr said:
I'm not sure how intelligent she actually is.

Owens whole thing was trying to say that nationalism isn't always a bad thing. In that vein, she was trying to claim that Hitler wasn't a nationalist (spoiler: he was).

Even ignoring the stupidity of trying to say Hitler wasn't a nationalist, nationalism has a problem. That problem is human nature which will likely always lead to racism.

Technically speaking nationalism doesn't have to be racist. But it probably always will be because you have to define whatever country's values in some way. Once you define those values then you will have people who don't fit into that definition. They become the Other, and we all know how well history has treated the Other.

Its one of those things that if human nature was changed, maybe nationalism could work. Until then, it will almost always lead to problems.
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I think it's just that some people use nationalism interchangeably with patriotism.

Dems continue to waste time trying to draw arrows between words.

Trump is not Hitler. He's not Nixon. Not in any way that matters.
 
not everyone thought hitler would turn into Hitler at the beginning. nationalism was embraced by a large proportion of the German citizenry.

what made a difference is how complicit the german populace became.

maybe the Dems should be complicit, see what happens. it wont turn out good...
 
hyperalgesia said:
Why do Dems want to disarm the population? If I were afraid of Hitler, definitely not my next move.
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The Socialists need to remove arms from the citizens in order to enable Hitler. That's what Hitler did himself. They are just following the play book all totalitarian regimes have always followed. First priority; disarm (or never arm) the citizens. Second priority; make citizens dependent upon the state welfare system. Third priority; control education. They have #2 and #3 all in line here in the US; and doing their best to get #1 in line now.
 
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Ligament said:
The Socialists need to remove arms from the citizens in order to enable Hitler. That's what Hitler did himself. They are just following the play book all totalitarian regimes have always followed. First priority; disarm (or never arm) the citizens. Second priority; make citizens dependent upon the state welfare system. Third priority; control education. They have #2 and #3 all in line here in the US; and doing their best to get #1 in line now.
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These guys are so brainwashed. "Hitler" is in power and we should all be terrified by this authoritarian king and it's a constitutional crisis and we should disarm the population. WTF??
 
hyperalgesia said:
These guys are so brainwashed. "Hitler" is in power and we should all be terrified by this authoritarian king and it's a constitutional crisis and we should disarm the population. WTF??
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it's hilarious....and sad at the same time.
 
same old conservative FAKE NEWS that democrats want to ban guns.

it is the conservatives who are completely brain washed. unfortunately, its hard for them to conceptualize that there is someone/something other than "me me me me".

democrats don't want to ban guns. they want gun control, and guns only in the hands of those responsible enough to use them.

fwiw, biden, sanders, harris, O'Rourke all acknowledge that they own guns. Clinton went duck hunting while prez. Obama did not own a gun.

Home - The Liberal Gun Club



please, reread your post. you actually equate Hitler's actions with those of socialists....
 
facts, not opinions, guys.

use rational thought and evidence to base your conclusions.

if you read or see something online, do the digging yourself.
 
Ducttape said:
same old conservative FAKE NEWS that democrats want to ban guns.

it is the conservatives who are completely brain washed. unfortunately, its hard for them to conceptualize that there is someone/something other than "me me me me".

democrats don't want to ban guns. they want gun control, and guns only in the hands of those responsible enough to use them.

fwiw, biden, sanders, harris, O'Rourke all acknowledge that they own guns. Clinton went duck hunting while prez. Obama did not own a gun.

Home - The Liberal Gun Club



please, reread your post. you actually equate Hitler's actions with those of socialists....
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Relevant to this thread, single-payer, and the failure of socialist central planning in general. I love the example of Soviet farming. We are seeing it in health care with the rise of "the administrative class" and the direct employment of physicians. So much of what passes for "healthcare" is administrative circle-jerking:



What’s notable is that me:
A. These ideas didn’t work
B. After they were shown not to work, they rapidly spread

“But the High Modernists were pawns in service of a deeper motive: the centralized state wanted the world to be “legible”, ie arranged in a way that made it easy to monitor and control. An intact forest might be more productive than an evenly-spaced rectangular grid of Norway spruce, but it was harder to legislate rules for, or assess taxes on.”

“The state promoted the High Modernists’ platitudes about The Greater Good as cover, in order to implement the totalitarian schemes they wanted to implement anyway. The resulting experiments were usually failures by the humanitarian goals of the Modernists, but resounding successes by the command-and-control goals of the state. And so we gradually transitioned from systems that were messy but full of fine-tuned hidden order, to ones that were barely-functional but really easy to tax.”

“although well-educated technocrats may understand principles which give them some advantages in their domain, they are hopeless without the on-
the-ground experience of the people they are trying to serve, whose years of living in their environment and dealing with it every day have given them a deep practical knowledge which is difficult to codify.”

“But the Soviet version was tragedy. Instead of raising some money to start a giant farm and seeing it didn’t work, the USSR uprooted millions of peasants, forced them onto collective farms, and then watched as millions of people starved to death due to crop failure. What happened?
Scott really focuses on that claim (above) that farming was “90% engineering and only 10% agriculture”. He says that these huge farms all failed – despite being better-funded, higher-tech, and having access to the wisdom of the top agricultural scientists – exactly because this claim was false. Small farmers may not know much about agricultural science, but they know a lot about farming.”
 
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