What would make medical school less stressful?

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Right now in my training studying for Step 1 is most important. A 220 Step 1 and a strong clinical background from studying clin med (info which ill forget by next yr anyway) snt going to get me anywhere if one wants a more competitive specialty. Clin med at my school isnt about history taking its about questions like how much methacholine to give during an asthma challenge or how to give a cardiac stress test how much dobutamine to give during a cardiac stress test. that stuff is not important rn
Eh I thought that too and your mindset changes quite a bit once you get out into the clinical world. Strong clinical background only goes so far also...I have one and it’s still an uphill climb and feeling dumb a lot.

My main point is while there is plenty of BS that can get cut out, clin med isn’t really one of them. And the whole conspiracy about DO schools actively sabotaging you so you have to go into primary care is almost Alex Jones-esque. It just doesn’t make any sense at all

Best of luck though

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My main point is while there is plenty of BS that can get cut out, clin med isn’t really one of them. And the whole conspiracy about DO schools actively sabotaging you so you have to go into primary care is almost Alex Jones-esque. It just doesn’t make any sense at all
Eh, I don't know. At a lot of schools, students have options like taking a remediation exam or something before failing a course. DO schools seem to be so quick to fail anyone and force them to remediate, sometimes for the stupidest things.
 
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Eh I thought that too and your mindset changes quite a bit once you get out into the clinical world. Strong clinical background only goes so far also...I have one and it’s still an uphill climb and feeling dumb a lot.

My main point is while there is plenty of BS that can get cut out, clin med isn’t really one of them. And the whole conspiracy about DO schools actively sabotaging you so you have to go into primary care is almost Alex Jones-esque. It just doesn’t make any sense at all

Best of luck though
It actually does. You'll see when you take off the rose-colored glasses.
 
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Eh, I don't know. At a lot of schools, students have options like taking a remediation exam or something before failing a course. DO schools seem to be so quick to fail anyone and force them to remediate, sometimes for the stupidest things.
perfect example was when they tried to fail me in omm and try and make me retake the entire course based on attendance alone when I had a 90% in the class. clearly showed competency in the material but didnt pass attendance. I had to meet with dean and she finally let me pass but it was a huge ordeal none of the faculty wanted to work with me at all i had to get on my hands and knees and finally ended up having to beg to meet with the dean. anyways point is I agree with @fldoctorgirl
 
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It actually does. You'll see when you take off the rose-colored glasses.
Nah it would make zero sense for them to actively go against their students. Can you explain an actual reason? It’s not like they get additional funding for a percentage of PCPs. Like I said...it isn’t active malice it’s just ignorance of the best way to run things.

I have no rose colored glasses. There’s a lot that needs fixed and most of the time there’s BS we have to wade through. I just am not as paranoid as most on here. But if you can give me factual evidence to the contrary I’ll listen
 
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Again, all these examples aren’t malice. They’re just weird ignorant policies and misguided priorities. Failing more people does nothing positive for schools
 
Again, all these examples aren’t malice. They’re just weird ignorant policies and misguided priorities. Failing more people does nothing positive for schools
It pads their pockets.
 
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Find out What makes the podiatry kids so happy ??
 
Eh, I don't know. At a lot of schools, students have options like taking a remediation exam or something before failing a course. DO schools seem to be so quick to fail anyone and force them to remediate, sometimes for the stupidest things.

wait what? I thought DO schools, like US med schools in general, want their students to succeed :confused:
 
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What does? Failing students? Putting more into primary care? How would that pad pockets
At our school, even if you fail a class like OMM-- and at our school, you could have a B+ in the class but not pass the written exams with an average of 70% and still fail-- they will often make you repeat the entire year. That's an extra year of tuition for the school.

wait what? I thought DO schools, like US med schools in general, want their students to succeed :confused:
Overall, I think this stands to be true. But I think that there is a lot of shadiness going on with DO schools and the amount of students repeating years of school. If 40-50 people are repeating a course, there's something wrong with the faculty and it should be acknowledged and looked into rather than blaming it on the students, which is what a lot of DO schools do. An exam average should not be less than 70%; that tells you that there's something wrong with your faculty and/or the way the tests are being written.

I am not seeking to prove anything, this is just what I've noticed throughout my own experience and speaking to other students at other DO schools; many of us feel like our school isn't doing their best to help us succeed. Others may disagree and I'm glad that they do if their school seems better in this regard.
 
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Therapy dogs. Preferably Doodles!

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im perpetually amazed at how schools tend to work against their own student’s best interest. It makes no sense...at least at my school, they do everything in their power to make you look good no matter how bad you were during preclinical or clinical years.

There’s subtle language in ERAS and clear breakdowns of clinical grades, shelves and percentiles, but honestly it’s pretty hard to fail any preclinical classes (true P-F with no ranking and failing is 2 std below the mean or 70 which ever is lower), even harder to fail a clerkship, and 40/40/20 is the breakdown for honors, hp, pass.

Despite this cushiness, I’d bet the amount of stress and dissatisfaction in my class is on par, if not higher, than any other medical school. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
 
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I would die if medical school was 6 years. Just study hard and get it over with
 
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At our school, even if you fail a class like OMM-- and at our school, you could have a B+ in the class but not pass the written exams with an average of 70% and still fail-- they will often make you repeat the entire year. That's an extra year of tuition
It’s also a lower graduation rate and retention rate. Which reflects poorly on the school and can lead to sanctions, etc if it’s bad enough. There just isn’t a plausible explanation for the “purposely failing students to make them go primary care” argument. I’m sorry your school is lower average scores but it doesn’t make sense
 
At our school, even if you fail a class like OMM-- and at our school, you could have a B+ in the class but not pass the written exams with an average of 70% and still fail-- they will often make you repeat the entire year. That's an extra year of tuition for the school.


Overall, I think this stands to be true. But I think that there is a lot of shadiness going on with DO schools and the amount of students repeating years of school. If 40-50 people are repeating a course, there's something wrong with the faculty and it should be acknowledged and looked into rather than blaming it on the students, which is what a lot of DO schools do. An exam average should not be less than 70%; that tells you that there's something wrong with your faculty and/or the way the tests are being written.

I am not seeking to prove anything, this is just what I've noticed throughout my own experience and speaking to other students at other DO schools; many of us feel like our school isn't doing their best to help us succeed. Others may disagree and I'm glad that they do if their school seems better in this regard.
If say that happens in first year and someone repeats, then that’s an empty spot in that class for the remaining 3 years. They lose 3 years of tuition.

OMM is the “easy” points on comlex so they want everyone to know it well. A lot of people I’ve met who barely passed comlex have told me OMM saved them. I’m personally awful at it, but like it or not these folks are doing their jobs.
 
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At our school, even if you fail a class like OMM-- and at our school, you could have a B+ in the class but not pass the written exams with an average of 70% and still fail-- they will often make you repeat the entire year. That's an extra year of tuition for the school.
Alot of schools give free tuition for the repeated year. Also im sorry that you guys feel this way I would make it be known on the School specific SDN page.
 
Nah it would make zero sense for them to actively go against their students. Can you explain an actual reason? It’s not like they get additional funding for a percentage of PCPs. Like I said...it isn’t active malice it’s just ignorance of the best way to run things.

I have no rose colored glasses. There’s a lot that needs fixed and most of the time there’s BS we have to wade through. I just am not as paranoid as most on here. But if you can give me factual evidence to the contrary I’ll listen

I can give you anecdotal evidence of admins actively threatening excellent candidates on paper that if they pursue X specialty they 100% won’t match so they shouldn’t even try and just apply to the local FM programs instead....
 
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I can give you anecdotal evidence of admins actively threatening excellent candidates on paper that if they pursue X specialty they 100% won’t match so they shouldn’t even try and just apply to the local FM programs instead....
I still think that’s just pure ignorance and goin with the safe advice. Even excellent people fail to match in every specialty so if they don’t they’ll shred the school. And if they do apply FM it boosts match numbers. It’s just terrible advising, like undergrad advising terrible.
 
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Nah it would make zero sense for them to actively go against their students. Can you explain an actual reason? It’s not like they get additional funding for a percentage of PCPs. Like I said...it isn’t active malice it’s just ignorance of the best way to run things.

I have no rose colored glasses. There’s a lot that needs fixed and most of the time there’s BS we have to wade through. I just am not as paranoid as most on here. But if you can give me factual evidence to the contrary I’ll listen
They want us to be good doctors and they prioritize that over step which in a perfect world IS actually more important but in this world and in this medical education system Step 1 is priority until its over (3rd year) because lets face it they can try and train you to be the best doctor ever with all this clinical stuff but if you want to do something that requires a competitive step 1 score you cant no matter how good of a doctor they train you to be and how much clin med you jam into your brain you simply cant be an ortho or a plastic surgeon or an ENT or any other remotely competitive specialty with a 225 Step 1 (it does happen but its so rare now). A kid with all the qualities of a great med student with 1000s of hrs of ECs and a billion pubs with great personality and interviews well but has a 494 MCAT isnt going to be a doctor at all because hes not getting into med school with a 494. Similar situation. Its the system and the number of med students that has allowed this to happen. Its the reality of it but what I am saying is some schools make it harder for you to do well on the big exam that literally can determine the rest of your life and i dont think they put the emphasis required for success for it. that is my point
 
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It’s also a lower graduation rate and retention rate. Which reflects poorly on the school and can lead to sanctions, etc if it’s bad enough. There just isn’t a plausible explanation for the “purposely failing students to make them go primary care” argument. I’m sorry your school is lower average scores but it doesn’t make sense
it makes perfect sense. Youll still match rural community FM with subpar board and a repeated course. Some of these programs want to weed you into doing rural FM. Its my own personal theory and other DO students I have spoken with. This is not the case for all DO programs but some. It explains why in my previous posts some schools (like mine) put so much more emphasis on training you to be a clinician (overall jack of all trades clin med extraordinair primary care doc) over being the kind of doctor the student wants to be (whether it be a surgical specialist or whatever it is they want to be that isnt primary care) which I think is more prioritized by more of the MD programs and super estalished DO programs that match exceedingly well because Step is more priority during those years for them
 
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One of my peeves is students complaining about useless information they are required to learn. Face it, they are students, who dont know very much yet but somehow know what they dont need to know. Whew. Got that off my chest. Now, about the stress. Stress is mostly self induced. Try to be kind to yourself, set goals like reading a couple chapters , then treat yourself to a break, exercise socialize, meditate, something different. Also, having a support system or network is crucial. Being alone with your thoughts too often is not healthy
A lot of that "useless" information comes in handy later, and gives us a level of understanding of material that allows us to comprehend the mechanisms of new treatments, medications, and the pathophysiology of disease I'm a way that lesser trained clinicians just can't.
 
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it makes perfect sense. Youll still match rural community FM with subpar board and a repeated course. Some of these programs want to weed you into doing rural FM. Its my own personal theory and other DO students I have spoken with. This is not the case for all DO programs but some. It explains why in my previous posts some schools (like mine) put so much more emphasis on training you to be a clinician (overall jack of all trades clin med extraordinair primary care doc) over being the kind of doctor the student wants to be (whether it be a surgical specialist or whatever it is they want to be that isnt primary care) which I think is more prioritized by more of the MD programs and super estalished DO programs that match exceedingly well because Step is more priority during those years for them
Is it? Do you have actual experience with both? There are very very small numbers of people who have direct comparison between the two in terms of actual experience with the curriculum. I get you’re stressed, but doesn’t it make sense to learn how to do everything then specialize? (Hence the term specialty)...many people come in with these grand ideas of being a super powered surgeon then realize they hate surgery for example.

Teaching someone to be whatever specialty they want is way too personalized of an approach to take to an entire curriculum, you have to teach everyone the same. It would cost an insane amount to have different tracks, and also what happens when you don’t match surgery because you don’t get the board score? You have no knowledge in generalist medicine because you focused on surgery, so you’re a terrible PCP, and you’re screwed. You need to learn the basics before the specialty

Board scores go up with work sure, but there’s a cap. That’s why IMGs with years to study still don’t get top scores all the time. It’s a naive mindset overall. But best of luck. I’ve said my mind enough
 
Is it? Do you have actual experience with both? There are very very small numbers of people who have direct comparison between the two in terms of actual experience with the curriculum. I get you’re stressed, but doesn’t it make sense to learn how to do everything then specialize? (Hence the term specialty)...many people come in with these grand ideas of being a super powered surgeon then realize they hate surgery for example.

Teaching someone to be whatever specialty they want is way too personalized of an approach to take to an entire curriculum, you have to teach everyone the same. It would cost an insane amount to have different tracks, and also what happens when you don’t match surgery because you don’t get the board score? You have no knowledge in generalist medicine because you focused on surgery, so you’re a terrible PCP, and you’re screwed. You need to learn the basics before the specialty

Board scores go up with work sure, but there’s a cap. That’s why IMGs with years to study still don’t get top scores all the time. It’s a naive mindset overall. But best of luck. I’ve said my mind enough
I dont think you get it. Learn how to do everything then specialize? Yes it does make sense but my point is you cant specialize even if you learn how to do everything if you have a below avg Step 1. Yeah many people realize they hate surgery and other actually realize they love it. Med school should help you to be the doctor you want to be. Med school isnt training us to be surgeons so Idk what your argument is here im not saying they should train us to be specialists I am simply saying they should make it more conducive to being able to do well on Step 1 so we have the OPTION to do what we want to do
 
I dont think you get it. Learn how to do everything then specialize? Yes it does make sense but my point is you cant specialize even if you learn how to do everything if you have a below avg Step 1. Yeah many people realize they hate surgery and other actually realize they love it. Med school should help you to be the doctor you want to be. Med school isnt training us to be surgeons so Idk what your argument is here im not saying they should train us to be specialists I am simply saying they should make it more conducive to being able to do well on Step 1 so we have the OPTION to do what we want to do
As the people who are past step have said, a good chunk of “useless” things come up again when you’re actually practicing or even out in rotations. Medical training does not equal step 1. It just doesn’t. Med school does not exist to get you a step 1 score. That’s on you, and a lot of people are gonna end up average on boards, because it’s the damn average. It’s basic stats. I studied longer and harder than my buddy and he outscored me by 20 on step. In the end just cramming board resources doesn’t help you be a doctor, it helps you do well on exams.

Most of the pointless meetings are requirements licensure boards have. So blame them. At a certain point it’s on you because there are rockstars at your school that do well with the same BS people complain about on here. Everyone else seems to be able to deal with it and do just fine...I’m out
 
I dont think you get it. Learn how to do everything then specialize? Yes it does make sense but my point is you cant specialize even if you learn how to do everything if you have a below avg Step 1. Yeah many people realize they hate surgery and other actually realize they love it. Med school should help you to be the doctor you want to be. Med school isnt training us to be surgeons so Idk what your argument is here im not saying they should train us to be specialists I am simply saying they should make it more conducive to being able to do well on Step 1 so we have the OPTION to do what we want to do

I agree with what you’re trying to say but if you do poorly on Step 1 you can’t blame it on your school. Many people overcome their school’s meddling every year.
 
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I agree with what you’re trying to say but if you do poorly on Step 1 you can’t blame it on your school. Many people overcome their school’s meddling every year.
Def not blaming on my school. Step 1 score itself is on me they just make it more stressfull IMO than it already is if you catch me drift since this thread is about stress based on OPs original statement
 
It blows my mind that ERAS fees aren't waived for students who qualified for FAP during the med school application process. I qualified for FAP yet am expected to pay even MORE money during the match process.

Problem being is that a financial circumstances can vastly change, one way or another.
 
It was similar at my school as well, but tbh a lot of it isn't even their fault. So much of that stuff is LCME mandated.

Edit: Also, looking back on med school and my stressors, there's a lot I would do different but most of my shortcomings were purely my own fault. I did find it difficult to deal with all the stress to the point where I would simply procrastinate until a couple days before major exams (covering weeks worth of material in several classes) to begin studying. This carried on from late first year, through second and third year. It was like the senioritis at the end of undergrad just crept back in.

Yeah, Jameson literally told me the new curriculum was in part due to the push from the LCME.

I did similar things as you and first and second year were really difficult for that reason.

I started bailing on the TBLs and took the hit on my grades. Oops
 
It’s also a lower graduation rate and retention rate. Which reflects poorly on the school and can lead to sanctions, etc if it’s bad enough. There just isn’t a plausible explanation for the “purposely failing students to make them go primary care” argument. I’m sorry your school is lower average scores but it doesn’t make sense
I think we're arguing two different points; you're arguing against @Deecee2DO 's point about schools trying to force students into primary care by failing them. I don't necessarily agree with that point, my argument is simply that I've seen MD schools go above and beyond trying to make sure their students succeed, having multiple attempts at remediation exams before outright failing a course, etc. Meanwhile, it seems DO schools don't even give a second thought to failing a student and frequently making them repeat an entire year based on one failure. My point is just that DO schools don't seem to care too much about the implications of some of their policies on their students' potential to match, be that out of ignorance or malice I don't know.
 
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I think we're arguing two different points; you're arguing against @Deecee2DO 's point about schools trying to force students into primary care by failing them. I don't necessarily agree with that point, my argument is simply that I've seen MD schools go above and beyond trying to make sure their students succeed, having multiple attempts at remediation exams before outright failing a course, etc. Meanwhile, it seems DO schools don't even give a second thought to failing a student and frequently making them repeat an entire year based on one failure. My point is just that DO schools don't seem to care too much about the implications of some of their policies on their students' potential to match, be that out of ignorance or malice I don't know.
That’s very school dependent even on the DO side. Mine and others I know are very generous. Hell we get 3 tries to pass a shelf exam. I was talking more generally
 
That’s very school dependent even on the DO side. Mine and others I know are very generous. Hell we get 3 tries to pass a shelf exam. I was talking more generally
That's fair, I can agree with you on that. It's definitely school specific, but I've heard it more frequently speaking with students at DO schools than MD schools. Regardless, I'm glad that your school is better in that regard.
 
That's fair, I can agree with you on that. It's definitely school specific, but I've heard it more frequently speaking with students at DO schools than MD schools. Regardless, I'm glad that your school is better in that regard.
IDK. We twist ourselves into pretzels trying to maintain our board pass rate and keep our average above the national average. Not sure about the failing to push students into FM.
 
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I dont think you get it. Learn how to do everything then specialize? Yes it does make sense but my point is you cant specialize even if you learn how to do everything if you have a below avg Step 1. Yeah many people realize they hate surgery and other actually realize they love it. Med school should help you to be the doctor you want to be. Med school isnt training us to be surgeons so Idk what your argument is here im not saying they should train us to be specialists I am simply saying they should make it more conducive to being able to do well on Step 1 so we have the OPTION to do what we want to do
I may be old school, but as a specialist, I believe you should be a solid generalist first. Should know something about OB and Peds even if you dont take care of them.
 
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IDK. We twist ourselves into pretzels trying to maintain our board pass rate and keep our average above the national average. Not sure about the failing to push students into FM.
Again, I never made that point. That's @Deecee2DO 's argument. I actually agree with you on this comment and the one about being a generalist first.
 
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The USMLE is a complete ass exam. Prime example: rock an elective in Cardiology during my third yr that’s normally taken as a Sub-I. Handle 3-4 pts everyday all inpatient for 19-20 working days. All fellows love me and want me to apply to IM/Cardiology. I know all murmurs like child plays. On my testing day, something was wrong with the murmur audio and I couldn’t hear a single abnormal sound on any auscultation points. I ended up having Cardiology as one of my weakest points.
 
I may be old school, but as a specialist, I believe you should be a solid generalist first. Should know something about OB and Peds even if you dont take care of them.
people are misunderstanding me bigtime. im talking about schools prioritizing the wrong stuff the first two years over step 1 which should be the focus the first two years. Because there is so much emphasis on step one and it’s important to do well you learn the clinical stuff third year and residency (generalist stuff first yeah-thats why you need IM before fellowship). Do you all think i am saying we should learn how to be a specialist in medical school? that doesnt even sound practical or make sense. You dont learn how to be a doctor in the first 2 yrs of medical school you learn the foundation. you learn how to be a doctor in residency and to go to the residency that you want your school should want you to have options if you want them and in order to have options you need to do well on step 1
 
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The USMLE is a complete ass exam. Prime example: rock an elective in Cardiology during my third yr that’s normally taken as a Sub-I. Handle 3-4 pts everyday all inpatient for 19-20 working days. All fellows love me and want me to apply to IM/Cardiology. I know all murmurs like child plays. On my testing day, something was wrong with the murmur audio and I couldn’t hear a single abnormal sound on any auscultation points. I ended up having Cardiology as one of my weakest points.
So it’s an ass exam because a technical glitch undersold your god like cardiology skills. Got it
 
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people are misunderstanding me bigtime. im talking about schools prioritizing the wrong stuff the first two years over step 1 which should be the focus the first two years. Because there is so much emphasis on step one and it’s important to do well you learn the clinical stuff third year and residency (generalist stuff first yeah-thats why you need IM before fellowship). Do you all think i am saying we should learn how to be a specialist in medical school? that doesnt even sound practical or make sense. You dont learn how to be a doctor in the first 2 yrs of medical school you learn the foundation. you learn how to be a doctor in residency and to go to the residency that you want your school should want you to have options if you want them and in order to have options you need to do well on step 1
True to a point, you are not a doctor after 2 yrs of pre clinical. However, we cant send you out in the clinics not knowing anything clinical and expect good rotations to continue to take our Know Nothing Clinical students. Think about it.
 
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-Less debt
-Everything recorded/ non mandatory
-No pbl
 
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40 cent wings was like an orgy in your mouth.

It wasn't just the 40 cent wings, the $2.75 20 ounce Yuengling's were a dangerous and highly sexual combination
 
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The USMLE is a complete ass exam. Prime example: rock an elective in Cardiology during my third yr that’s normally taken as a Sub-I. Handle 3-4 pts everyday all inpatient for 19-20 working days. All fellows love me and want me to apply to IM/Cardiology. I know all murmurs like child plays. On my testing day, something was wrong with the murmur audio and I couldn’t hear a single abnormal sound on any auscultation points. I ended up having Cardiology as one of my weakest points.
I hope you reported this immediately to the NBME as a testing issue. Technology issues aren't a quality of the exam, necessarily.
 
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Have you seen ortho procedures? Knee and hip replacements could be performed by non-physicians. Vocationally-trained techs could do them as long as there’s a single doc standing by in the unit in case of emergency.


No they can’t.
 
I hope you reported this immediately to the NBME as a testing issue. Technology issues aren't a quality of the exam, necessarily.
it doesnt matter as long as he passed..
dont you know, nobody gives a rats ass unless the money stops flowing than its the end of the world
 
The people who setup our curriculum and give us pointless busy work/mandatory meetings on trivial BS that interferes with studying. Clin med course at my school that takes up 80% of our second yr class time/studying all of which is exceedingly low yield for step 1 which is a huge time eater and takes away from board prep. My stress comes from my school, not studying in and of itself. If my school said ok youre on your own go study for boards were cancelling class for the rest of the year I would honestly be less stressed. All of my stress comes from the school itself. Their argument is its not all about boards-well, it is actually its actually all about boards rn at this point in my training since there are so many med students and new med schools popping up it is about boards and a good score is more important right now as an M2 than anything else. I dont understand why they dont get that lol my classmates and i have a theory that my school (DO school) doesnt want us to do that well on boards so we are forced to do primary care. Dont get me wrong i feel very fortunate to be in medical school I just wish some schools would be more practical
they are trying to brainwash you with their spin on things
 
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it doesnt matter as long as he passed..
dont you know, nobody gives a rats ass unless the money stops flowing than its the end of the world
They tend to address technological issues as evidenced by Step 3 CCS being less slow/laggy in many places where that used to be a complaint prior.
The poster also seemed to imply that the technology failure means the test is a poor test, which is pretty unrelated.
 
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