What would make medical school less stressful?

[Angus Avagadro]

So out of curiosity, do you not see curriculum becoming more and more bloated with more required activities each year? (Not speaking about lectures, necessarily, just anything required by the school)

Maybe this is something unique to my medical school and the medical schools that are attended by my friends, but all of us have remarked on the constant increase in "stuff" that takes up more and more time.

Sure, background checks, signing up for rotations, stuff as you say. I dont believe our course credits have increased. I do agree that govt regulations have increased non educational hassles.
Also shelf exams are a form.of forced review and study. I think students. because of shelf and board prep score better on boards as it forces them to keep up where in the past they might just be studying for the next course exam.

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[bananafish94]

Trim the fat. Here’s something that should be supported by everyone not employed by the NBME: get rid of CS and the DO equivalent. Completely useless source of additional stress, has the ability to railroad your career for no reason, costs an exorbitant amount of money. But most importantly, it adds absolutely no value. Ridiculous that it still exists.

 

[bananafish94]

$32.5 million, roughly, for first time test takers. It’s not going anywhere.

Your post is just too logical. Makes too much sense. Would be too helpful.

Oh I know. But I can tell you that as soon as I have any hand in these decisions I’ll be leading the charge against it.

 

[Lawpy]

Trim the fat. Here’s something that should be supported by everyone not employed by the NBME: get rid of CS and the DO equivalent. Completely useless source of additional stress, has the ability to railroad your career for no reason, costs an exorbitant amount of money. But most importantly, it adds absolutely no value. Ridiculous that it still exists.

apparently some academic docs think making Step 2 CS a scored exam is a great idea...

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oh I know. But I can tell you that as soon as I have any hand in these decisions I’ll be leading the charge against it.

You got two and a half years. Get on it.

 

[bananafish94]

apparently some academic docs think making Step 2 CS a scored exam is a great idea...

I can’t say I’ve heard that argument but I can only imagine that they would be in the absolute minority. Quite literally everyone I know is strongly opposed to it, including administration that I’ve spoken to at my school.

 

[bananafish94]

You got two and a half years. Get on it.

My pleasure!

 

[qwerty89]

While I agree that work-life balance is important and that there are many ways in which medicine and the medical training process could be improved, the above comment is totally insane unless you have some massive trust fund or something. Do we you have any idea how much 2 years of attending salary is worth after 30-40 years invested in index funds and bonds with dividends reinvested?

I mean, voluntarily adding 2 years onto your medical school education would probably cost you $2-4 million over 30 years, assuming you were investing wisely.

I mentioned the opportunity cost of doing a 2 year neuroradiology fellowship vs 1 year in the radiology forums.

If we assume a $350,000K starting salary for a brand new attending and a Ohio State PGY-7 salary of $65,000 (its really $63,240)...

That's an after tax pay of $227,150 and $51,001 respectively.

Assume you live off of $51,000 for the entire year either way (saving aggressively as an attending and saving 0 as a fellow).

That leaves $176,150 left for the attending.

Assume ALL of that money is invested.

Assume that you get a 6% annual return on your investments.

That becomes $1,060,876 after 30 years using this calculator. Put in 30 years difference between start and end dates, put $176150 for starting investment and 0 for monthly contributions, put 6% for expected annual return.

$1,000,000

Brain tumors aren't that exciting

 

[slowthai]

Oh I know. But I can tell you that as soon as I have any hand in these decisions I’ll be leading the charge against it.

I support you in your quest to infiltrate the NBME and dismantle it from within. Godspeed, bananafish.

 

[bananafish94]

I support you in your quest to infiltrate the NBME and dismantle it from within. Godspeed, bananafish.

 

[DJay4534533]

Wow that’s unbelievable. We were told we should be studying 60-70 hours per week including lectures, labs, etc. and that we should be getting adequate sleep and exercise lol.

Yea, I had a professor tell me that I should be studying for 2 hours a day for every lecture. The only problem is we have 4 hours of class most days, and usually have stuff in the afternoons 3/5 days of the week. So, it’s hard to find that 8 hours, and allow time for eating & sleeping an adequate amount.

 

[Chelsea FC]

The students who complain about mandatory classes about dealing with minority patients (race , LGBTQ) are the same one that I hear making stupid comments that could be overheard by the general public. So even though I find them a chore at times I think they are there for a reason. If anything to torture those students. /jk

 

[DJay4534533]

The students who complain about mandatory classes about dealing with minority patients (race , LGBTQ) are the same one that I hear making stupid comments that could be overheard by the general public. So even though I find them a chore at times I think they are there for a reason. If anything to torture those students. /jk

Those same students also don’t listen to those lectures & they still become a waste. It’s like teaching to the choir because usually the only ones listening are those from the populations that are more sensitive to those issues. Unfortunately, you can’t force people to care about social issues.

 

[deleted980662]

after reading this thread, i'm surprised to see that pass/fail USMLE has hardly been mentioned, especially in light of this recent and well-publicized article advocating for better oversight of the NMBE's approach to step 1.

at my school, all classes (~4 hours daily) are mandatory attendance. i don't mind this in itself, because most classes are interesting, case-based, and focused on small group work. but i do mind it in the context of preparing for step 1, which adds about 6-8 hours per day of anki to my schedule. this means that i'm usually doing flashcards when i'd rather be enjoying class.

i don't need anki to prepare for class. i don't do it because i believe it will make me a better clinician. i do anki so i can memorize all the minutiae necessary to ace step 1.

P/F step 1 = far less aimless studying = reduced stress, more clinically oriented knowledge, more time for studying things that interest me, better school-life balance, etc etc

i frankly couldn't care less if that makes things harder for PDs and ortho gunners. sorry!

 

[Lawpy]

after reading this thread, i'm surprised to see that pass/fail USMLE has hardly been mentioned, especially in light of this recent and well-publicized article advocating for better oversight of the NMBE's approach to step 1.

at my school, all classes (~4 hours daily) are mandatory attendance. i don't mind this in itself, because most classes are interesting, case-based, and focused on small group work. but i do mind it in the context of preparing for step 1, which adds about 6-8 hours per day of anki to my schedule. this means that i'm usually doing flashcards when i'd rather be enjoying class.

i don't need anki to prepare for class. i don't do it because i believe it will make me a better clinician. i do anki so i can memorize all the minutiae necessary to ace step 1.

no step 1 = far less studying = less stress, more clinically focused knowledge, more time for studying things that interest me, better school/life balance, etc etc

i frankly couldn't care less if that makes things harder for PDs and ortho gunners. sorry!

are you at a top school?

 

[deleted980662]

are you at a top school?

yeah, one of the lesser T14s, so take my opinion with a grain of salt i guess. but i'm not convinced that bias toward T14 grads is a convincing reason to continue bias in favor of 99th percentile USMLE scorers. both are problems – and one of them is easily fixed.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

The students who complain about mandatory classes about dealing with minority patients (race , LGBTQ) are the same one that I hear making stupid comments that could be overheard by the general public. So even though I find them a chore at times I think they are there for a reason. If anything to torture those students. /jk

Those same students also don’t listen to those lectures & they still become a waste. It’s like teaching to the choir because usually the only ones listening are those from the populations that are more sensitive to those issues. Unfortunately, you can’t force people to care about social issues.

Yeah sorry I actually care a lot about social issues and have been subject to Antisemitism a number of times. I just don’t like being told I’m racist just because I’m white or having mandatory 3 hour sessions right before finals.

Edit: missed the second part. Never mind!

 

[slowthai]

Yea, I had a professor tell me that I should be studying for 2 hours a day for every lecture. The only problem is we have 4 hours of class most days, and usually have stuff in the afternoons 3/5 days of the week. So, it’s hard to find that 8 hours, and allow time for eating & sleeping an adequate amount.

Yeah, I completely reject those dogmatic statements of studying 2-3 hours per hour of lecture. I let my workload dictate my hours, not the other way round.

 

[Ho0v-man]

after reading this thread, i'm surprised to see that pass/fail USMLE has hardly been mentioned, especially in light of this recent and well-publicized article advocating for better oversight of the NMBE's approach to step 1.

at my school, all classes (~4 hours daily) are mandatory attendance. i don't mind this in itself, because most classes are interesting, case-based, and focused on small group work. but i do mind it in the context of preparing for step 1, which adds about 6-8 hours per day of anki to my schedule. this means that i'm usually doing flashcards when i'd rather be enjoying class.

i don't need anki to prepare for class. i don't do it because i believe it will make me a better clinician. i do anki so i can memorize all the minutiae necessary to ace step 1.

P/F step 1 = far less aimless studying = reduced stress, more clinically oriented knowledge, more time for studying things that interest me, better school-life balance, etc etc

i frankly couldn't care less if that makes things harder for PDs and ortho gunners. sorry!

Oh god, no! Just close the thread!

 

[Chelsea FC]

Yeah sorry I actually care a lot about social issues and have been subject to Antisemitism a number of times. I just don’t like being told I’m racist just because I’m white or having mandatory 3 hour sessions right before finals. But the irony that you’re lumping all of us together when talking about lectures like that is not lost on me.

Wait who am I lumping you with ?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Wait who am I lumping you with ?

Unless I misread your post, which is totally possible, it seemed like you were saying that people who complain about those lectures are the people who need them the most because they are ignorant. Did I misunderstand? Cause that’s pretty much what you wrote.

 

[Chelsea FC]

Unless I misread your post, which is totally possible, it seemed like you were saying that people who complain about those lectures are the people who need them the most because they are ignorant. Did I misunderstand? Cause that’s pretty much what you wrote.

I was trying to say its normally the kids who complain about them the most say crap to make it clear that they actually need that type of social educating. While admitting that everyone in a whole finds them a chore

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I was trying to said its normally the kids who complain about them the most say crap to make it clear that they actually need that type of social educating. While admitting that everyone in a whole finds them a chore

Gotcha. Didn’t catch the second part. Admittedly I did read it in the bathroom at a movie theater.