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Their programs are very different and of course cost is a factor, but what is your opinion? Thanks for your help .
MSZ said:Thank you! No, Penn is offering half tutition so the difference btwn Harvard and Penn is about 10-12 k a year.
Rezdawg said:Given the situation, I would go to PENN.
If you know that you want to specialize, 100%, then go to Harvard. If you think there may be a chance that you'd want to go into general dentistry, then take that scholarship at PENN...and if you decide you want to specialize later, then PENN will still give you a good shot at doing that as well.
TimR said:Harvard would be epic. That would be hard to pass up. 1 out of 35. C'mon. Money won't be a huge issue for you 10-15 years down the road if you are pulling 500K a year.
SMC2UCLA2_ said:Do you know if you want to specialize? Both are great schools if you do...but if you dont want to specialize for sure...or even if theres a good chance you wont specialize, I would go with UPENN. If i got into both schools I would prob take UPENN because I am pretty sure I wont specialize and I want to come out of school with the most clinical experience possible so that I can avoid associate positions and also avoid GPR.
At the same time, im sure you can get whatever you put in. If you go to Harvard and know you want to go into GP then im sure you can put in that extra effort to see it done right. Let us know what you decide on!
Personally my decision will come down to where my brother gets into to undergrad.
Oops, forgot to take the scholarship into consideration. Im real big on personal finance. If you take the 12k a year you save...and invest it at 9 percent (s&p index fund) , then by the time you graduate this 48k savings will be worth $54,840. If you never add another penny to this money and let it accumulate interest at 9% for another 20 years then it will be worth $307,000. My brother averages 17% a year so if you know someone...or if you opt for a good value fund by a top manager, then the numberes would be (assuming 15%) 60,000 at the end of dental school and 981,992 20 years after graduation (assuming no addition).
I assure you these calculations are right. Future value calculations rule! Take finance into consideration because time is fleeting. Time= money. Dont waste either!
SMC2UCLA2_ said:I know its hard to imagine but Harvard really wont open up many more doors than UPENN. If you want to go back and get an MBA later in life...u have a great shot at UPENN...a phenomenal MBA...and you will even have an excellent chance of getting into Harvard MBA. For specialties...same thing. You can get into great programs from either. Do you really want to lost near 1 million in the long run for a name? I would if it was a toss up between Harvard and say Loma Linda (no offense). But between the top 4 or 5 schools. Come on now.
greenday said:Historically speaking, Harvard does way better in matching specialties. That's one of the door openning effect from the big H.
greenday said:SMC2UCLA2UPENN,
I doubt many people would go back and get an MBA. Even if they really wanted to be on the Apprentice, they would probably have equally good chance of getting into Warton from Harvard than applying from Upenn.
Historically speaking, Harvard does way better in matching specialties. That's one of the door openning effect from the big H.
Speaking of losing 1 million in the long run, the 1 million wouldn't be as much because of inflation. We all have taken personal finance. IRA would give you a 20 mil as well if you do it yearly until 55, but does that mean you should quit dental school and borrow 2000$ from your parents every year? Money shouldnt be an issue, especially when it's only 40k difference. If you really wanna bank on personal finance, go to UW or MCG. They'll probably give you 5 mil in 20 years.
luder98 said:What about UConn? It's one of the top 3 clinical schools
Chris125 said:One factor to take into consideration is that children of Harvard alumni are able to get into any of the other Harvard programs very easily. To be accepted at Harvard undergrad, for example, you quite nearly have to be valedictorian and score 1600 on your SATs. However, if a parent went there you can get in with reasonably attainable scores.[/QUOTE/]
OK so we should add:
* So my kids can get in using the legacy card.*
To our list of reasons to choose a dental school?
If I have kids, I hope they would be smart and personable enough to get into any school of their choice without having to depend on mommy.
greenday said:Haha,
seems like it's either 40k or a Harvard diploma, great clinical training or perfect specialty matching rate.
Very touch call, and it's up to MSZ now where he truly feels comfortable at. (I bet he has some idea already)
What makes me feel good though, is that unless I get a better offer, I will be attending the prestigious, illustrious UPENN.
duh? said:OK so we should add:
* So my kids can get in using the legacy card.*
To our list of reasons to choose a dental school?
If I have kids, I hope they would be smart and personable enough to get into any school of their choice without having to depend on mommy.
luder98 said:What about UConn? It's one of the top 3 clinical schools and should give you good shots for specialty as well. And it's a public school.
In response to the poster that would pick Harvard over LLU in a heart beat, I believe LLU is also one of the top three clinical schools. And offers quite a variety of specialty too. If you pick by the name, then that's different. Just my opinion.
MSZ said:Wow, thank you for all of your responses. I'm still confused, but all of you have helped a lot. I do want to specialize and I've known this for awhile. Ultimately I would like to save money and if I have a high chance of getting into orthodontics coming from Penn, then that's a plus for Penn. On the other hand, I find the PBL learning attractive as well as the P/F system and taking classes with medical students. I want to graduate a strong clinician even if I do specialize. I don't know, but all I can tell you is I have to decide by Dec. 21st according to Penn. Not too much time which isn't very fun. Thanks again.
Btw, I'm a "she" not a "he" (minor detail)
Unemployed said:Does your cousin go to Temple Med?
MSZ said:Their programs are very different and of course cost is a factor, but what is your opinion? Thanks for your help .
MSZ said:Their programs are very different and of course cost is a factor, but what is your opinion? Thanks for your help .
griffin04 said:MSZ: I saw the word "orthodontics" in one of your posts. I am a graduate of Buffalo and I just got into ortho this week after my third try. You can read the "And you matched at" thread over on the dental residency board. Yes I worked hard in my dental school for a 90+ board and top 10 rank. But, If I had to do dental school all over again knowing that I wanted to do ortho, I would choose either Harvard or UConn. Both schools give you the opportunity to do very well on the Part I boards and they don't give you a class rank. Penn assigns a rank to their top 10, and then everyone else doesn't get a rank - how sucky is that. Even between Harvard vs. UConn, I would go with Harvard. The usually match all their applicants to ortho. If you don't match, when you reapply, you still have that awesome board score and the Harvard name going around with you, and that can be a big deal to some of these programs - they like saying "we have a resident here from Harvard."
Nothing is 100%. I have met an ortho from Harvard who didn't get in senior year (but got in the second time), and I have met an orthodontist from Penn who didn't get in until the third try. But why not try to give yourself every advantage possible?
dat_student said:Given the two options: you should choose Harvard. It has the highest matching rate.
Rankings based on matching rate:
#1 Harvard 88%
#2 UCLA 50-75%
#3 UCONN ~40%
#4 Columbia (~30%) ~ UPENN (~30%) ~ UCSF
SuperTrooper said:...for all those who say the name of the dental school you go to doesn't matter when applying to specialties (which is 95% of people on this site)...
TimR said:DaT-Student comes with the facts..... harvard.... easy choice.
swanlake said:So that you could have both UPenn and Harvard diploma when you open your practice.
This is definitely not true. People with 95+ Part I board scores and ranks in the top 10 get rejected for ortho all the time. Also, how do you know if you're smart enough?swanlake said:The bottom line is if you are smart enough, no matter where you end up you will be an Orthodontist.
Yes, on day one of dental school. Dental school is way different from college; as college is way different than from high school.swanlake said:The fact that you received a dean's scholarship, you have proved yourself that you are the one of the most shining stars at UPenn~!!!!
MSZ said:Their programs are very different and of course cost is a factor, but what is your opinion? Thanks for your help .
griffin04 said:No, this is where pre-dents get confused about the name. Once you are in private practice, no one cares where you went to school. Patients don't give a squat. I am a Buffalo grad working in NYC - EVERYONE here, patients & dentists, automatically assumes I went to NYU and it's not until I say "Umm, no, I didn't" that my school ever comes up. And my patients have no clue if I graduated in the top 10 or if I barely graduated. Dentists I interview with don't even bother looking at which school I went to or what my rank was on my resume - they just want to know if I am licensed and what procedures I can do.
Thank you SuperTrooper for your kind words!
Harvard and UPenn both have good "names" - but I really think the ranking of the top 10/ignoring everyone else is a sucky system at Penn. Better off at Harvard where no one gets a rank. Of course, this discussion only applied if you are going to specialize. If you want to do General Practice, it doesn't matter which school you attend - go to the school that will save you the money because like I said above, no one gives a crap about what dental school you attended when they are having a toothache.
swanlake said:Griffin04
I think you have a good point.
I mentioned about schools just in case MSZ is interested in schools name brand. My dentist went to Columbia, and she always have told me that "it doesn't matter where you go. None of my patients ask me which school I went to." She actually encourages me to go to my state school, so that I could save my $$$$ and use it toward when I open my practice.
Thus, I absolutely agree with you griffin04. SAVE $$$$$$$$$$$$$