What would you choose...UPenn (scholarship) vs. Harvard?

[SuperTrooper]

The question I have is, how do you know you want to specialize for sure?? Until you pick up an instrument and get involved, you dont know 100%. Maybe 95%. What happens if you choose Harvard and decide you prefer going straight out and working instead of spending an additional 3 years getting trained? Well, then you are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Harvard will not prepare you at all for general dentistry. PENN will give you your options.

No, harvard will give you your options. Becoming a general dentist is the default to not getting into a specialty, not the other way around. Either school you attend, you're a dentist. And i'm not sure your characterization of harvard general dentistry preparedness is accurate. Additional 3 years? Are you talking about a GPR? All dentists hone their skills the first 4/5 years out, no matter what school you attend. And all harvard students have the appropriate clinical/lab skills to pass the part II and their respective regional exams, so they know their stuff.

Also, if you go to Penn, some people will think you went to Penn State. : o

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[Rezdawg]

No, harvard will give you your options. Becoming a general dentist is the default to not getting into a specialty, not the other way around. Either school you attend, you're a dentist. And i'm not sure your characterization of harvard general dentistry preparedness is accurate. Additional 3 years? Are you talking about a GPR? All dentists hone their skills the first 4/5 years out, no matter what school you attend. And all harvard students have the appropriate clinical/lab skills to pass the part II and their respective regional exams, so they know their stuff.

Also, if you go to Penn, some people will think you went to Penn State. : o

By additional three years, I was referring to specializing. Many of my classmates, whom wanted to specialize, now feel like they do not want to spend another few years in a specialty program. Instead, they'd rather be done with schooling, get into the real world, and start making some money doing real work.

If you go to Harvard and decide to do general dentistry, you almost have to do a GPR or AEGD. They just are not as prepared as students from other schools.

 

[swanlake]

Also, if you go to Penn, some people will think you went to Penn State. : o

This is not an issue at all~~~~!!!!

 

[SuperTrooper]

By additional three years, I was referring to specializing.

Oh sorry! You're right, I gotsta learn how to read!

 

[SuperTrooper]

This is not an issue at all~~~~!!!!

No. In the "Harvard vs. UPenn" debate, Harvard clearly wins. In fact, the game was over before we ever even opened the thread. Alas, it's not called UPenn, it's Penn!! People have to say UPenn because they don't want people to think it's Penn State.

 

[tau10]

7 out of 35 of HSDM's graduates in 2005 continued on to specialty / residency programs at Harvard. I'd say that's a pretty significant number of dentists opting to stay with their alma mater. MSZ, I'm in your shoes -- and can only say go with your heart. Money aside, where would you go? If the answer is Harvard, then go. Don't make a decision that will affect the rest of your life based on $40k. PS Check your personal inbox.

 

[swanlake]

I think we had enough~~!!!!
We can talk about this issue all day long.
At this moment, What's important is What MSZ thinks, right?

Good Job guys....

 

[MSZ]

I want to thank everyone for their help! It was difficult to choose, but I have chosen PENN. Good luck to everyone!

 

[DIRTIE]

you are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are passing up something that you will regret for the rest of your life. You should spend the Christmas time in some serious thought.
I am a firm believer that a dental school is a dental school, go to the cheapest, except for one exception Harvard
If for some odd reason while you are at Harvard you do only want to do general, then just do a GPR, you will probably have to do one if you go to PENN anyways. Seriously clear your mind and think logically. You want to go to Harvard

 

[Rezdawg]

I agree with the UPENN decision. Its a damn good school. Congrats.

 

[djsahand]

you are crazy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
you are passing up something that you will regret for the rest of your life. You should spend the Christmas time in some serious thought.
I am a firm believer that a dental school is a dental school, go to the cheapest, except for one exception Harvard
If for some odd reason while you are at Harvard you do only want to do general, then just do a GPR, you will probably have to do one if you go to PENN anyways. Seriously clear your mind and think logically. You want to go to Harvard

dirty - thats rude of you to try and discourage someone's decision...

 

[duh?]

I want to thank everyone for their help! It was difficult to choose, but I have chosen PENN. Good luck to everyone!

Great decision girl! I'm glad you made a good choice. See you in August.

 

[swanlake]

I want to thank everyone for their help! It was difficult to choose, but I have chosen PENN. Good luck to everyone!

You have chosen the finest dental school in the world~~!!!
I'm sure you will be a great dentist.
As I mentioned before, if you are going to specialize, apply to Harvard graduate program.

Best Wishes~~!!!

 

[SuperTrooper]

You have chosen the finest dental school in the world~~!!!
I'm sure you will be a great dentist.
As I mentioned before, if you are going to specialize, apply to Harvard graduate program.

Best Wishes~~!!!

Swanlake, from reading your posts on the "Harvard" thread it seems you really want to get that Harvard acceptance. Hopefully MSZ's decision to turn down harvard will open up that spot for you!! Good luck!

 

[eapleitez]

If it was me in your shoes, I would go UPENN. You can still specialize after that. I say you made the right choice.


Seriously, why would you want to go to a school that doesn't let you touch an instrument until THIRD year? Tha's bogus.

You guys can probably tell that I'm more about quality of the education than of name brand.

 

[dat_student]

UConn name is better than UCLA?

I didn't say that. I just listed what I have for each school:

Rankings based on matching rate:
#1 Harvard 88% >> 35 d. students + med. students = ~200 students
#2 UCLA 50-75% >> 88 dental students
#3 UCONN ~40% >> 40 d.students + 80 med students = 120 students
#4 Columbia (~30%) (235 students, 75-79 dental students) ~ UPENN (~30%) 128-135 dental students ~ UCSF(80 students)

All of the above are great schools. People can specialize from any school. One has to look at the above numbers & many other factors to make a decision. For example, I'd rank Temple in top 5 in terms of clinical preparations.. I may be wrong but Brian definitely convinced me [in terms of clinical preparations] Temple is a very good school. If research is your only goal the above list should be rearranged a bit and Temple may not be the best choice. Also, it's important to see if it's worth spending additional $100,000 for the same degree [UCONN, UCLA & UCSF are public schools. Harvard, UPENN & Columbia are private schools]. In some cases, it may be worth it. In some cases, it may not be. In my opinion, one has to look at each school from many different angles and pick a school he/she is more comfortable with. It's also important to find out where you want to end up practicing. Do you like the west coast, east coast, northeast, south etc etc etc. Living conditions are also important. Name is very important but other factors are very important as well. One cannot make a decision based on a single list or any one ranking system.

 

[dat_student]

I want to thank everyone for their help! It was difficult to choose, but I have chosen PENN. Good luck to everyone!

congrats! you deserve it. you'll be a successful dentist. I'm sure.

 

[luder98]

is this guy serious? where did this top3 clinical school list come from? nice try

It is up to you to believe or not. But that list does exist. It's just not published.

OP: I don't think there's a wrong choice here. But If I were you, I would visit the schools again, talk to their students and try to figure out which one will fit you most. 4-year can be short, but it can be very long and misterious if the environment doesn't fit you. Good Luck.

 

[MSZ]

sigh, my gut is not satisfied with my decision. i'm beginning to sway the other way now...

 

[HermeytheElf]

sigh, my gut is not satisfied with my decision. i'm beginning to sway the other way now...

Congrats on getting accepted at both places, you obviously worked hard in undergrad and I'm sure you'll do very well in dental school too. I don't know that there is a right answer to this question, you should go where you think you would be happiest, but since you've asked for opinions I'll give you mine. Take Harvard. The money difference (around 40,000 total) is miniscule when you look at the big picture. It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to be able to attend a school of that caliber, not to say that Penn isnt a good school, but its not world renowned the way Harvard is. Your first two years you will have classes with the med students, meaning you'll be working with some of the brightest doctors in the country. If you want to specialize, I don't know many things that will open doors for you the way a Harvard diploma will. And to top it all off, Boston is a beautiful city, Harvard has a magnificent campus filled with the next generation of our nations most influential people. In the end I'm sure you could be very happy and excel at either place, so there really is no wrong decision. Good luck.

 

[r0entgen]

sigh, my gut is not satisfied with my decision. i'm beginning to sway the other way now...

i know how you feel....i think this decision making is even harder than getting accepted lol...it's giving me a headache, and i can't get anything done until i make a solid decision!

 

[duh?]

sigh, my gut is not satisfied with my decision. i'm beginning to sway the other way now...

If you gut is not satisfied then i suggest you pay more attention to the situation.
Lemme see if I can help.

(If you believe in a higher power, it would be a good idea to ask for guidance).

I need you to be brutally honest with yourself. It's all about you now. We're talking about YOUR future. WHAT DO YOU WANT? You really don't have to answer in a hurry. Take your time. Please note that this question goes beyond what dental school do you want or if you want to specialize or not. What does MSZ want out of life? What are your goals? How much sweat are you willing to put into achieving those dreams?

A person that goes to war needs to decide before hand just how far he/she is willing to go. You don't decide your limits IN battle.

Do you believe you can achieve ANYTHING you set your heart to? DO YOU? How badly do you want to achieve your goals?

You may not be sure if you want to specialize or not, but that is not the issue because I believe you can achieve anything you set your heart to.

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING IF YOU SET YOUR HEART TO IT AND PERSEVERE TILL YOU ACHIEVE YOUR DREAM. Life ain't easy and neither of this schools will make anything more achievable than your determination and hardwork will.

Where did you feel more comfortable? Which school made you feel (more) at ease?

In the end we all have to answer to our innermost selves why we make the choices we make. I cannot promise you that things will be easy either way. I just want you to make sure that when the time comes to answer to yourself you can say that you have been TRUE TO YOURSELF. YOU have to live with the choices you make, not anybody on this forum.

This above all; to thine own self be true.
William Shakespeare

WHAT DO YOU WANT? HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO?

People say you may not get enough clinical training at HARVARD. Honey if you want clinical training YOU MAKE a way to get as much as you require. Spend your free time at a dental office if you have to. They say PENN will give you more options if you choose whatever. YOU not a school will determine your options if you choose to or not to specialize.
If you never test the limits you will never know how weak or strong they are. Pray,follow your heart, pay attention to your instincts, be true to yourself. Make your choice and never look back. Be prepared for whatever the future throws at you and make sure you fight to the finish.

Good luck!

 

[HermeytheElf]

If you gut is not satisfied then i suggest you pay more attention to the situation.
Lemme see if I can help.

(If you believe in a higher power, it would be a good idea to ask for guidance).

I need you to be brutally honest with yourself. It's all about you now. We're talking about YOUR future. WHAT DO YOU WANT? You really don't have to answer in a hurry. Take your time. Please note that this question goes beyond what dental school do you want or if you want to specialize or not. What does MSZ want out of life? What are your goals? How much sweat are you willing to put into achieving those dreams?

A person that goes to war needs to decide before hand just how far he/she is willing to go. You don't decide your limits IN battle.

Do you believe you can achieve ANYTHING you set your heart to? DO YOU? How badly do you want to achieve your goals?

You may not be sure if you want to specialize or not, but that is not the issue because I believe you can achieve anything you set your heart to.

YOU CAN DO ANYTHING IF YOU SET YOUR HEART TO IT AND PERSEVERE TILL YOU ACHIEVE YOUR DREAM. Life ain't easy and neither of this schools will make anything more achievable than your determination and hardwork will.

Where did you feel more comfortable? Which school made you feel (more) at ease?

In the end we all have to answer to our innermost selves why we make the choices we make. I cannot promise you that things will be easy either way. I just want you to make sure that when the time comes to answer to yourself you can say that you have been TRUE TO YOURSELF. YOU have to live with the choices you make, not anybody on this forum.

This above all; to thine own self be true.
William Shakespeare

WHAT DO YOU WANT? HOW FAR ARE YOU WILLING TO GO?

People say you may not get enough clinical training at HARVARD. Honey if you want clinical training YOU MAKE a way to get as much as you require. Spend your free time at a dental office if you have to. They say PENN will give you more options if you choose whatever. YOU not a school will determine your options if you choose to or not to specialize.
If you never test the limits you will never know how weak or strong they are. Pray,follow your heart, pay attention to your instincts, be true to yourself. Make your choice and never look back. Be prepared for whatever the future throws at you and make sure you fight to the finish.

Good luck!

Dammit I'm inspired. Have you ever considered co-authoring a book with Tony Robbins?

 

[duh?]

Dammit I'm inspired. Have you ever considered co-authoring a book with Tony Robbins?

I dont know who that is. Sometimes i feel like I have a 'gift' to be able to reach out to people and help them see the strengths they possess. i hope this will be useful in my practice. I don't just want to rebuild teeth, i want to re-build/uplift spirits too.

Oops! I forgot to add "world peace!" lol! No list of aspirations is complete without "world peace."

 

[Rezdawg]

Dammit I'm inspired. Have you ever considered co-authoring a book with Tony Robbins?

Agreed. I need to go study.

 

[cowsgomoo]

i know how you feel....i think this decision making is even harder than getting accepted lol...it's giving me a headache, and i can't get anything done until i make a solid decision!

Same here!!!

 

[WonderY]

Hi MSZ,

I think you should decide this for yourself. Think about your interviewing experiences, which school did you like better? You're going to be spending the next 4 years there, so it's important to pick one where you'd feel most comfortable. Also, if money wasn't an issue, which one would you pick? A difference of 10K isn't much, in my opinion. Harvard is obviously more selective, and you also get an opportunity to take classes with the brightest dental and med students in the country, being taught by top-notched professors, and you'll come across really really great opportunities for research and teaching. I truly think Harvard will open a lot of doors for you later on.

On the other hand, I think Upenn is a great school as well, and it will provide you with so many opportunities, MSZ. I think you have a very hard choice to make. With that said, it's still a win-win situation.

But if it was me, I would choose Harvard. Keep us posted on your decision.

 

[I'mFillingFine]

It is up to you to believe or not. But that list does exist. It's just not published.

OP: I don't think there's a wrong choice here. But If I were you, I would visit the schools again, talk to their students and try to figure out which one will fit you most. 4-year can be short, but it can be very long and misterious if the environment doesn't fit you. Good Luck.

Visiting the schools is an EXCELLENT idea, and for everyone else trying to choose as well! It might cost some money, but usually when you're there for an interview you're so conscious about presenting YOURSELF that you might not have noticed some things. It's good to go back and interview THEM for a change.

Also, bringing a friend/parent/spouse/homeless guy of the street will help you see it from a non-dental-student perspective and help with clear judgement.

I know I'm going back to UConn and Penn next weekend

 

[duh?]

Visiting the schools is an EXCELLENT idea, and for everyone else trying to choose as well! It might cost some money, but usually when you're there for an interview you're so conscious about presenting YOURSELF that you might not have noticed some things. It's good to go back and interview THEM for a change.

Also, bringing a friend/parent/spouse/homeless guy of the street will help you see it from a non-dental-student perspective and help with clear judgement.

I know I'm going back to UConn and Penn next weekend

Yes i agree with you. The best time to 'look' at the school/students/environment is not on your interview day. Penn was one of my top choices and I spend almost 3 days there when i went for my interview (of course I had a lot of classwork to make up but it was worth it). I knew I was serious about the school so i got there a day before my interview and Edknarf showed me around (THANKS!). The next day was my interview. When i was done i took the time to hang around with current students and met another SDNite (Sprgrover), i was not in a hurry to catch any flight. That evening, like the previous one, I strolled around, ate a 'leisurely' dinner and just soaked up the environment. I had a half day (my 3rd day) to hang around before i headed back. When I got back home, there was no question where I would choose.

I would advise anybody with doubts or questions to spend some time at the schools. Good luck!

 

[Catfish]

Hi MSZ,

I think you should decide this for yourself. Think about your interviewing experiences, which school did you like better? ....

But if it was me, I would choose Harvard. Keep us posted on your decision.

I agree on thinking for yourself and what you want too. I went to both interviews as well. I personally like something different than all others, and Harvard is the one with UNIQUE opportunities and learning styles. I won't say I'll fit in Harvard's style, but just because I'm interested in this uniqueness, I would go to Harvard if I was offered the chance.

I too received the UPenn acceptance with the Dean's Merit Scholarship. But after serious consideration, I decided to decline it. Compare to Harvard, UPenn isn't much more different than other dental schools (of course there's relatively more opportunities) It's not unique enough for me. And mainly because I'm a small town girl with no $$$ myself or parents at all,even with the scholarship, I believe there's tons hidden charges out there, which I can not afford. I don't want to be a poor graduate student. So I chose UF, where I'll live very happily without any potential financial difficulties.

Anyway, to me, Harvard is definitely UNIQUE in every aspect, the program and the people. UPenn is a great traditional school. It all depends on how you look at them and what you think is the most attractive point to you.

I would go to Harvard if I was accepted

 

[polarnut]

People make it seem like if you go to Harvard, things will drop on your lap from the sky. Harvard is overrated because their reputation feeds off people's mouth and spreads like wildfire. In all practicality, Harvard doesn't open doors for you. You do. It may seem like people who went to Harvard have more opportunities only because it so happens students at Harvard put in that much more effort and time into what they are doing. Doors will open for you too if you spend just as much time and effort.

You are your own responsibility.

 

[sumozmom]

Their programs are very different and of course cost is a factor, but what is your opinion? Thanks for your help .

Boston or Philly ( should i say philthadelphia) lived there of 6 yrs...