What would you do if physicians' income dropped to 70K

[Law2Doc]

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to every single person that says... i'm not in it for the money, is a LIAR.

sure, saving lives, working /helping people is great, but the money just tops it. icing on the cake.

Some may be liars but certainly not every single person, perhaps not even most. For example, lot of nontrads already earned pretty good money before changing streams (there was a thread on this on the nontrad board a while back), and clearly would have been better off fiscally if they stayed put, rather than go into a decade of debt during school and training. So no, not all folks are in it for the money.

But the assumption that "saving lives" and "helping people" is what people who aren't focused on money must be into is flawed and shallow. Altruism is an extreme and equally lame knee-jerk, IMHO. Folks should go into medicine because they want to practice medicine. The other stuff, money, helping people, are just nice perqs if they happen. But shouldn't really be anyone's primary driving force. Because there are other places you can go to maximize both those goals that don't involve the lenghty training.

 

[dutchman]

its a dumb question, so dumb it doesn't even deserve a dumb answer


considering that median registered nurse salary is 58k/yr, you are essentially suggesting that physician salary could potentially be equitable with RN salary. An utterly ridiculous and pointless discussion.

Oh really?

Courtesy of another thread

http://www.acponline.org/journals/impact/spring97/strike.htm

"For example, in Israel in 1983, a doctor had to work 70 hour per week to earn as much as a nurse working for 40 hours under the socialized system of medicine"

 

[Law2Doc]

considering that median registered nurse salary is 58k/yr, you are essentially suggesting that physician salary could potentially be equitable with RN salary. An utterly ridiculous and pointless discussion.

Not so inconceivable to me - At some of the smaller law firms a seasoned secretary can earn almost as much, if not more, than a first year associate. Pay needn't be hierarchical.

 

[spicedmanna]

Some may be liars but certainly not every single person, perhaps not even most. For example, lot of nontrads already earned pretty good money before changing streams (there was a thread on this on the nontrad board a while back), and clearly would have been better off fiscally if they stayed put, rather than go into a decade of debt during school and training. So no, not all folks are in it for the money.

But the assumption that "saving lives" and "helping people" is what people who aren't focused on money must be into is flawed and shallow. Altruism is an extreme and equally lame knee-jerk, IMHO. Folks should go into medicine because they want to practice medicine. The other stuff, money, helping people, are just nice perqs if they happen. But shouldn't really be anyone's primary driving force. Because there are other places you can go to maximize both those goals that don't involve the lenghty training.

As I usual, I find myself in alignment with your posts. Well said. I was going to respond in similar fashion, but you essentially did it for me. Cheers.

 

[OrangeTide]

$70,000 is pushing it. Its really not enough to support a family (in LA at least). My parent's mortgage payment is close to that (unfortunately).

It's plenty to support a family if you ask the democrats. Definately not trying to infuse politics into this thread, but unfortunately, with income taxes and the political climate we live in, I feel obligated to.

This is exactly why no doctor, or pre-med should vote for Hillary.

Take Exxon, she wants to spend THEIR $40 billion in profits on what she sees fit in energy. I'm sorry, but just because they are successfull doesn't mean it's her, or any other politicians God given right to take away their money.

On a lesser scale, it will happen to us, physicians as well. Just because we make more than 99% of the people out there, she has no right to lower our salary, or take more away.

please, return to normal discussion, but I hope some more left leaning people on this board consider that when they vote in '08 unless you love studying your ass off, slaving through a residency, and then getting paid about as much as your friends who partied and drank while you were up late in the library.

 

[45408]

I'd quit med school. I'm already pretty far in the hole, but hey, cut your losses while ahead. These threads suck.

 

[dutchman]

It's plenty to support a family if you ask the democrats. Definately not trying to infuse politics into this thread, but unfortunately, with income taxes and the political climate we live in, I feel obligated to.

This is exactly why no doctor, or pre-med should vote for Hillary.

Take Exxon, she wants to spend THEIR $40 billion in profits on what she sees fit in energy. I'm sorry, but just because they are successfull doesn't mean it's her, or any other politicians God given right to take away their money.

On a lesser scale, it will happen to us, physicians as well. Just because we make more than 99% of the people out there, she has no right to lower our salary, or take more away.

please, return to normal discussion, but I hope some more left leaning people on this board consider that when they vote in '08 unless you love studying your ass off, slaving through a residency, and then getting paid about as much as your friends who partied and drank while you were up late in the library.

This is not about left or right. All politicians are bent on screwing physicians at will. The sooner we realize this and start fighting, the better.

 

[Flightfire]

I disagree. The training of a physician is less cerebral than the training of a Ph.D in electrical engineering or physics. If we're paying people by how hard the content they learn is, doctors should make less than engineers or physics majors.

Doctors are not -- I repeat, ARE NOT -- the smartest group of professionals.

How much you get paid has nothing to do with how smart you are. It is a function of how much responsibility you have and how much risk you take. Entrepreneurs take a huge risk to start a business and if it is successful they are the highest paid people in society. Airline pilots have the lives of up to 300 people in their hands and a multimillion dollar piece of equipment at risk, they are paid accordingly. Doctors take people's lives into their hands everyday and are rewarded accordingly. I love medicine, but I won't take responsibility for someone's life unless I am sufficiently compensated for the risk I am taking. Simple economics will always prevail.

 

[45408]

its a dumb question, so dumb it doesn't even deserve a dumb answer


considering that median registered nurse salary is 58k/yr, you are essentially suggesting that physician salary could potentially be equitable with RN salary. An utterly ridiculous and pointless discussion.

you mean it wouldn't make sense to go $200K in the hole over the 8 years it takes to get a BS and MD, then work 80+ hours a week for $8/hr for 4-6 years only to make the same amount as if you hadn't done all that except two years for an ASN? Some of the posters in this thread are so wet behind the ears.

 

[Navicular]

I'd go into I-Banking....

 

[spicedmanna]

How much you get paid has nothing to do with how smart you are. It is a function of how much responsibility you have and how much risk you take. Entrepreneurs take a huge risk to start a business and if it is successful they are the highest paid people in society. Airline pilots have the lives of up to 300 people in their hands and a multimillion dollar piece of equipment at risk, they are paid accordingly. Doctors take people's lives into their hands everyday and are rewarded accordingly. I love medicine, but I won't take responsibility for someone's life unless I am sufficiently compensated for the risk I am taking. Simple economics will always prevail.

I'm not entirely convinced of what you are suggesting. Income is dependent on many factors, not just responsibility and risk. If these were the determining factors than soldiers, fireman, swat police, EMT's, etc., people who regularly place themselves at risk everyday and who take other's lives into their hands, would be some of the most well-paid in our society. I doubt it can be explained that easily.

 

[Law2Doc]

you mean it wouldn't make sense to go $200K in the hole over the 8 years it takes to get a BS and MD, then work 80+ hours a week for $8/hr for 4-6 years only to make the same amount as if you hadn't done all that except two years for an ASN? Some of the posters in this thread are so wet behind the ears.

I hate to break it to you, but no matter what you ultimately earn, there are going to be folks out there that earn more than you and got there in less time and with less education.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I'd find some way of being paid more, even if I had to be the personal physician of some evil dictator. Actually I would likely go into medical equipment or pharmaceutical sales or healthcare administration if I couldn't make an appropriate salary as a practicing physician. While I enjoy the challenge of clinical practice, I still expect to be rewarded appropriately for it. I have no delusions of being "called" to medicine to save the world, serve an underserved population or any of the other bull**** I hear from the premeds on this board.

 

[NickRiviera]

This is exactly why no doctor, or pre-med should vote for Hillary.

Oh geez, hopefully this thread won't make a turn toward politics.

How much you get paid has nothing to do with how smart you are. It is a function of how much responsibility you have and how much risk you take. Entrepreneurs take a huge risk to start a business and if it is successful they are the highest paid people in society. Airline pilots have the lives of up to 300 people in their hands and a multimillion dollar piece of equipment at risk, they are paid accordingly. Doctors take people's lives into their hands everyday and are rewarded accordingly. I love medicine, but I won't take responsibility for someone's life unless I am sufficiently compensated for the risk I am taking. Simple economics will always prevail.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

you mean it wouldn't make sense to go $200K in the hole over the 8 years it takes to get a BS and MD, then work 80+ hours a week for $8/hr for 4-6 years only to make the same amount as if you hadn't done all that except two years for an ASN? Some of the posters in this thread are so wet behind the ears.

Thank you for saying it. You saved me the trouble.

 

[Navicular]

I hate to break it to you, but no matter what you ultimately earn, there are going to be folks out there that earn more than you and got there in less time and with less education.

Like those that went into I-Banking!

 

[NickRiviera]

I'd find some way of being paid more, even if I had to be the personal physician of some evil dictator. Actually I would likely go into medical equipment or pharmaceutical sales or healthcare administration if I couldn't make an appropriate salary as a practicing physician. While I enjoy the challenge of clinical practice, I still expect to be rewarded appropriately for it. I have no delusions of being "called" to medicine to save the world, serve an underserved population or any of the other bull**** I hear from the premeds on this board.

Agreed; that's sorta what I was saying before. If you weight the responsibility, grueling education, etc. against pay and find pay isn't sufficient, people will jump ship to another field.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Oh really?

Courtesy of another thread

http://www.acponline.org/journals/impact/spring97/strike.htm

"For example, in Israel in 1983, a doctor had to work 70 hour per week to earn as much as a nurse working for 40 hours under the socialized system of medicine"

I assumed a relatively free market situation.

 

[OncoCaP]

Agreed; that's sorta what I was saying before. If you weight the responsibility, grueling education, etc. against pay and find pay isn't sufficient, people will jump ship to another field.

Don't worry, there would be plenty of people to take the place of people who would jump ship ... and if necessarily, politicians could recruit physicians from developing countries. 40% of our physicians (residents) come from other countries already.

I'm not suggesting that this is a good idea and I'm quite certain that quality of medical care would go way down, but it would cost less, so that might make some people happy (yeah sure, I'm sicker, but look how money I saved ).

I also don't think physicians are that weak politically. Sure, physicians are not the political powerhouse that, say, oil companies are, but they are still quite strong.

 

[em8r]

In certain places in Hawaii, that's about how much the take-home pay is for some physicians (because the insurance is so high). So they up and leave, which creates a problem for the people who live in those areas.

It would bother me. But that's because I want to raise four kids, and really just the fact that truck drivers can make that much w/o half the training physicians go through would get to me also...but heck I'd still do it, because I think it'll be a nice fulfilling way to pass the time til I die, and that's the truth.

Also, I would like to be able to come forward if somebody is ever in medical trouble while I'm in a restaurant or something and somebody goes "Is there a doctor in the house?" Like in the movies

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Not so inconceivable to me - At some of the smaller law firms a seasoned secretary can earn almost as much, if not more, than a first year associate. Pay needn't be hierarchical.

we are assuming the 70k is average/median salary, not the PGY-1's salary (comparable to your first year associate), right?

we already agree that RN's often get paid more than residents, even if residents work more.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Also, I would like to be able to come forward if somebody is ever in medical trouble while I'm in a restaurant or something and somebody goes "Is there a doctor in the house?" Like in the movies

Go become a paramedic. You'd be able to do just as much off duty in a restaurant as a off duty doc.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I hate to break it to you, but no matter what you ultimately earn, there are going to be folks out there that earn more than you and got there in less time and with less education.

on the aggregate however, you don't see that. of course there are exceptions, but the economy reigns with an iron fist and few become rich.

more education = more money

sure you'll say that Lindsay Lohan will be richer than I'll ever be, but most people with graduate degrees make more than most people with only a high school education.

 

[OncoCaP]

Go become a paramedic. You'd be able to do just as much off duty in a restaurant as a off duty doc.

That's a really bad idea -- at least in Austin. The paramedics work insane hours (100+) and I was talking to one EMT who was going into medicine so that he could work less hours.

 

[dutchman]

Don't worry, there would be plenty of people to take the place of people who would jump ship ... and if necessarily, politicians could recruit physicians from developing countries. 40% of our physicians (residents) come from other countries already.

I'm not suggesting that this is a good idea and I'm quite certain that quality of medical care would go way down, but it would cost less, so that might make some people happy (yeah sure, I'm sicker, but look how money I saved ).

I also don't think physicians are that weak politically. Sure, physicians are not the political powerhouse that, say, oil companies are, but they are still quite strong.

Physicians income only accounts for 5% of our total healthcare expenditure. Even if doctors took a 100% paycut they still have to account for the other expensive 95%. Dont let them fool you into believing physicians' salaries is what is driving healthcare costs up. It couldn't be, since those salaries are declining.

 

[spicedmanna]

Go become a paramedic. You'd be able to do just as much off duty in a restaurant as a off duty doc.

Exactly.

 

[OncoCaP]

Physicians income only accounts for 5% of our total healthcare expenditure. Even if doctors took a 100% paycut they still have to account for the other expensive 95%. Dont let them fool you into believing physicians' salaries is what is driving healthcare costs up. It couldn't be since those salaries are declining.

Oh, I'm not fooled. They'll cut the hospital and drug company take too if they could. It's an economic contest. So far physicians are doing just fine economically (although not as well as in the past).

 

[DropkickMurphy]

That's a really bad idea -- at least in Austin. The paramedics work insane hours (100+) and I was talking to one EMT who was going into medicine so that he could work less hours.

Who said anything about working as one? I just meant getting the education and then volunteering to keep up your skills.

 

[dutchman]

Oh, I'm not fooled. They'll cut the hospital and drug company take too if they could. It's an economic contest. So far physicians are doing just fine economically (although not as well as in the past).

Have you noticed no politician is willing to touch those guys with a stick, but they jump on doctors at every given chance. What is unusual about doctors taking 5% of of the healthcare expenditure? Afterall doctors are only the custodians of the healthcare system.

 

[etf]

through some hard work, luck, and savy business skills, i'm hoping to make $70k a month.

 

[Law2Doc]

through some hard work, luck, and savy business skills, i'm hoping to make $70k a month.

Not per hour? slacker.

 

[Cirrus83]

I'm damned sure the government would probably just waive the loans in such a situation otherwise doctors would just all start defaulting on their loans, since even the ones that had been making good money had probably gotten used to higher end lifestyles, lol.

So anyways, I'd still be a doctor, $70K a year ain't that bad, and I'm pretty sure nursing salaries would be cut by a good amount too if doctor salaries were cut, so that whole switch to nursing thing probably wouldn't work.

But, in order to make the $70K go a little further I'd use our newfound image as poor common heroes who sacrifice all just to save lives and get the physicians to demand massive discounts from just about everything (restaurants, hotels, movies, whatever). Kinda like that "good old days" fantasy Dr. Kelso had on Scrubs with the free haircut

That way you'd go to the movies and hopefully you'll see regular price, student price, senior price, and a special doctor's price of like $2

And if a company doesn't wanna give us the discounts I'd have our union blacklist their employees BWAHAHAHAA!!!

Doctor: So...who do you work for?
Patient: Dell computers.
Doctor: Hmm...I'm sorry but I can't see you as a patient, please tell your employer to give us the 85% discount our union demanded.
Patient: But I'm bleeding out of my ears!!!
Doctor: Yeah...totally sucks huh, and to think this all could have been avoided if only I had gotten to buy a laptop for $150.

(I am obviously kidding, I'd never deny a patient treatment, lol. Well, maybe we could just blacklist the top execs until they cave).

 

[OncoCaP]

Have you noticed no politician is willing to touch those guys with a stick, but they jump on doctors at every given chance. What is unusual about doctors taking 5% of of the healthcare expenditure? Afterall doctors are only the custodians of the healthcare system.

Actually Arnie proposed a 4% tax on hospitals and 2% on physicians. I can't remember now, but I think negotiating with drug companies was in there and limiting insurance companies to a 15% gross profit. Politicians are going after all aspects of healthcare.

 

[postbacdad]

sell prescription meds to high schoolers looking for a fix.

 

[Karina 07]

still 3x more than we get now
I'd still encourage my husband to stick with it becuase it's certainly not about the "wow" factor- it's about a social obligation that he feels driven to fulfill.

And honestly, to me, the social obligation part IS the "wow" factor. I can't imagine dating someone who wasn't working in one of the more helpful professions. I know, all professions have a role to play, and very many are helpful in ways one wouldn't automatically think of. Still, I'd need someone to be motivated to go into his career largely because of the helping aspect of it, to be happy.

 

[8744]

I was just wondering if you guys will still try to go to medschool, quit medicine if you are already doctors, or work while whinning?

Quit this mother-****er so fast that your head would spin and go back to engineering where I could make $70,000 per year with a lot less work, normal hours, and most weekends off.

What is a good job for $200,000 per year can turn into a crappy one for $70,000.

 

[Cirrus83]

And honestly, to me, the social obligation part IS the "wow" factor. I can't imagine dating someone who wasn't working in one of the more helpful professions. I know, all professions have a role to play, and very many are helpful in ways one wouldn't automatically think of. Still, I'd need someone to be motivated to go into his career largely because of the helping aspect of it, to be happy.

Yeah I actually think with a lower salary doctors would be more attractive to some people, since you're be more of a self-sacrificing people lover who's totally not in it for the money. Of course at the same time you'll get less people who simply want to go out with you because you're loaded, but those people are lame anyway.

Haha it'd be great though when you're hitting on people:
"Yeah...I'm a doctor, the pay sucks and you have to sacrifice so much of your life, but damned if it's not worth it when I see the look on the kids' faces when I save their parents' lives. I'm really a selfish man, sure I don't make any money, but I just feel so darn good helping people that I'm really just a selfish addict that doesn't care about money and only about helping people."
(yes I think this is sort of a Something about Mary reference almost)

 

[dutchman]

Actually Arnie proposed a 4% tax on hospitals and 2% on physicians. I can't remember now, but I think negotiating with drug companies was in there and limiting insurance companies to a 15% gross profit. Politicians are going after all aspects of healthcare.

No they are not, because you cannot go after your biggest donors in politics. If they are, then tell me why the only people that have taken a hit and continue to take a hit the most are doctors. As you begin to understand politics, you will see that it is one of the dirtiest things you will ever set your eyes on. The idea is to stump the weakest party in any situation. Right now doctors are the weakest, and they are taking a beating. I don't know if you know this but it is theoritically possible to cut physicians pay to that level while maintaining a tort system that forces malpractice premiums up. Basically putting a squeeze from both ends. They are intent on pushing the limit until physicians start resisting or crying for help.

Aside from money, how about just the basic ability to practice your profession. If doctors keep yielding to everything like sheep. There will come a point when they will dictate what procedures and treatment you can perform, even who you get to treat. They could even go as far as dictating your work schedule. Trust me guys, you don't want to give these folks a blank check and say "I will practice medicine regardless" beacause that thing you call medicine right now might just be a lot different when some greasy politician takes complete control of it.

 

[Cirrus83]

No they are not, because you cannot go after your biggest donors in politics. If they are, then tell me why the only people that have taken a hit and continue to take a hit the most are doctors. As you begin to understand politics, you will see that it is one of the dirtiest things you will ever set your eyes on. The idea is to stump the weakest party in any situation. Right now doctors are the weakest, and they are taking a beating. I don't know if you know this but it is theoritically possible to cut physicians pay to that level while maintaining a tort system that forces malpractice premiums up. Basically putting a squeeze from both ends. They are intent on pushing the limit until physicians start resisting or crying for help.

Aside from money, how about just the basic ability to practice your profession. If doctors keep yielding to everything like sheep. There will come a point when they will dictate what procedures and treatment you can perform, even who you get to treat. They could even go as far as dictating your work schedule. Trust me guys, you don't want to give these folks a blank check and say "I will practice medicine regardless" beacause that thing you call medicine right now might just be a lot different when some greasy politician takes complete control of it.

Don't underestimate the AMA just yet, lol. They have more power than you're giving them credit for.

Truth is that doctor salaries aren't going to 70K anytime soon. Sure, congress *could* pass crazy laws, but then again the AMA wouldn't ever let them, even if they have to start buying tons of TV ad time to run spots about how this law would just mean competent doctors quitting and letting incompetent new doctors kill patients everywhere (or something similarly fear stimulating). That and some sort of blame shifting advertising placed everywhere would be pretty quick to squash any drastic pay cuts. The AMA has a lot more money than you think they do, lol. Heck, they could probably just ask all the doctors to chip in $1000 for advertising money and instantly have an insane ad budget to go blitzkreig the airwaves with.

There is after all, a reason why physicians in the US are still paid the most in the entire frickin' world, and the AMA is a big part of that reason.

 

[Trance Ninja]

original question:

I would be pissed. seriously. In general, the more skills you have, the more you make. The more difficult the training, the more you make. It takes a special person to be a physician.

You can say "youre not doing medicine for the right reason" but seriously... we're going to be saving people's lives. It's pretty important work.

A couple of practices in my area are straight up DECLINING new patients using certain types of insurance that want to be cheap... so hope it plays out well.

 

[theraball]

$70K? The OP didn't specify whether malpractice insurance and student loans would be reduced commensurately. Assuming not, it would become impossible to practice in certain specialties like neurosurgery and obstetrics because you would be paying out more than you're taking in, especially in states that allow unlimited tort awards.

I'd probably go back to earning $90-100K in the computer field because much though I love science and medicine, if society punishes me monetarily for going into the field I'm going to get out fast.

Furthermore, I would become much more politically active and work to boot out the b*st*rds that got such a brain-damaged law passed (The Clinton-Kennedy Act: Resolved, that physicians shall earn no more than $70K in one year).

I'd sit back and laugh while the American public got what it richly deserved--shooting itself in the foot and going from the top medical system in the world to the bottom. In fact I would start a chain of fee-for-service medical clinics where physicians earn $100K, to exploit the demand. We would become like China where mainly the rich get any health care and the poor basically just die, because the docs don't want to work for nothing.

 

[dutchman]

Don't underestimate the AMA just yet, lol. They have more power than you're giving them credit for.

Truth is that doctor salaries aren't going to 70K anytime soon. Sure, congress *could* pass crazy laws, but then again the AMA wouldn't ever let them, even if they have to start buying tons of TV ad time to run spots about how this law would just mean competent doctors quitting and letting incompetent new doctors kill patients everywhere (or something similarly fear stimulating). That and some sort of blame shifting advertising placed everywhere would be pretty quick to squash any drastic pay cuts. The AMA has a lot more money than you think they do, lol. Heck, they could probably just ask all the doctors to chip in $1000 for advertising money and instantly have an insane ad budget to go blitzkreig the airwaves with.

That is what I am saying, even you are capable of comming up with ways to fight so don't underestimate yourself either. If you join the AMA then you will become the AMA(or at least part of it). This generation of premeds need to be more active in the AMA and politically, because the older docs have already taken care of their loans and needs. Do not assume they will be as aggressive fighting as you would like. We should all have the contact info of our senators and reps and let them know how we feel. Some of those politicians think doctors are ridding arround in Bentleys. We also need to let them know that doctors are not going to accept every piece of crap thrown out there in the form of legislation.

 

[Genetics]

What exactly are people arguing and discussing about in this thread? A doctor salary is not in the 70k range and won't be for many years to come. Sure, a doctors salary might drop to the 70k range when more technology takes over, ever watch the show 2057 on the Discovery Channel?

 

[NickRiviera]

Go become a paramedic. You'd be able to do just as much off duty in a restaurant as a off duty doc.

Are you kidding me? Do you understand what training physicians have? Here's an analogy that I'm guessing will work with your EMS-centric self... Do you think an EMT on-scene would be able to do just as much as a paramedic on scene? Just because there is no equipment available doesn't mean the playing field is equal.

 

[spicedmanna]

Are you kidding me? Do you understand what training physicians have? Here's an analogy that I'm guessing will work with your EMS-centric self... Do you think an EMT on-scene would be able to do just as much as a paramedic on scene? Just because there is no equipment available doesn't mean the playing field is equal.

You realize that DropKick has taught EMS classes, right?

Yes, in some instances EMT-B's will be able to do exactly what Paramedics would do on a given call, because often it is the call that determines what is necessary. If ALS skills aren't required, that is, if it is a true BLS call, then there is little difference between what the two professionals would do. It's about the right set of skills for the right situation. Dispatching a medic to a patient who has nothing more than a broken arm is not a wise use of resources; the medic's ALS skills would be totally useless in that case. I wouldn't personally ask a medic to splint a broken humerus, that's a EMT-B's job (it would be funny to watch actually). Medics are more concerned about saving the patient's life--Advanced Life Support--until he can receive definitive care at the hospital; they aren't necessarily worried about the patient's arm being in a weird position, or flopping every which way on the cot, when he might die.

Doctor's may not be able to do more in the same situation. They will follow many of the same algorithms that a medic would follow in the field. Also, it depends on what specialty you are talking about. Not all doctors are equally skilled/trained in the necessary support skills needed in the field. The right skills for the right situation. Would you ask an OB to handle a patient with chest pain? Most of the time, no, I'd rather depend on the Paramedic who is constantly up on his ACLS until I can receive definitive care at the ER.

Whatever. Unless the doctor is a trauma surgeon or cardiologist, or the like, someone who handles these kinds of situations frequently, they wouldn't necessarily be able to handle the given call better in the field.

 

[Meatwad]

I was just wondering if you guys will still try to go to medschool, quit medicine if you are already doctors, or work while whinning?

Of course I'd still try to get in; and I'd probably be successful in getting in, due to the fact the amount of applicants would probably drop significantly.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

its a dumb question, so dumb it doesn't even deserve a dumb answer


considering that median registered nurse salary is 58k/yr, you are essentially suggesting that physician salary could potentially be equitable with RN salary. An utterly ridiculous and pointless discussion.

I have a better question. What would you do if doctors were paid absolutely nothing in useless baseless humanworld paper money.... what if they were only paid by the respect of the community, the smiles of their patients, and the whines of patients' families... what then?!?!?!

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Not per hour? slacker.

you made a joke? NICE!

 

[vmc303]

I'd probably do clinical psychology, or get a neuroscience PhD instead.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

That is what I am saying, even you are capable of comming up with ways to fight so don't underestimate yourself either. If you join the AMA then you will become the AMA(or at least part of it). This generation of premeds need to be more active in the AMA and politically, because the older docs have already taken care of their loans and needs. Do not assume they will be as aggressive fighting as you would like. We should all have the contact info of our senators and reps and let them know how we feel. Some of those politicians think doctors are ridding arround in Bentleys. We also need to let them know that doctors are not going to accept every piece of crap thrown out there in the form of legislation.

I've seen you run this argument in at least 10 threads. What do you think we should do about it? email our congressman? do you think that would actually work if everyone just did that independently? i can understand your pessimistic outlook, but, i don't see your solution.

There has to be something better.