What would you do if physicians' income dropped to 70K

[Stolenspatulas]

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What exactly are people arguing and discussing about in this thread? A doctor salary is not in the 70k range and won't be for many years to come. Sure, a doctors salary might drop to the 70k range when more technology takes over, ever watch the show 2057 on the Discovery Channel?

If you are not pre-allo why do you still post here? I've read your threads and learned your story.

You provide no insight into what we are going through. I am entirely 100% confused.

 

[NickRiviera]

You realize that DropKick has taught EMS classes, right?

Yes, I do realize that but from reading many of his posts...nevermind, it doesn't matter. Ask a doctor if they feel on-scene they cannot do more than a paramedic can. There is an old saying that says a Paramedic becomes an EMT with no equipment and an EMT becomes a bystander. DropKick is saying that 4 years of school plus 3 years of residency at least would not give a doctor an edge on a medic. He claims to be an expert in EMS but makes disparaging statements about doctors and their ability to perform in emergency situations as well as proclaiming his thoughts as fact.

And I won't even go into a full rant about ACLS. Board exams for doctors are well beyond the level of ACLS or other merit-badge courses. It's almost ridiculous to me that physicians are forced to take these courses to work at certain hospitals.

But, I'm getting away from the OPs topic.

 

[dutchman]

I've seen you run this argument in at least 10 threads. What do you think we should do about it? email our congressman? do you think that would actually work if everyone just did that independently? i can understand your pessimistic outlook, but, i don't see your solution.

There has to be something better.

That is why I believe forming a physician's union is in order, as long as they can squeeze past the antitrust laws. There is nothing stopping a national residents doctors union either. Calling congressmen and senators is better than sitting arround like a duck waiting to get roasted. The whole idea is to get active and start getting used to the fact that no one else is going to fight for you. If you have any suggestions bring it forward. I am no longer in the business of barber-shop gossip and critique, I am all about action now.

 

[lilnoelle]

As it is, by the time I leave residency, my loans plus interest will have climbed up to $400K and interest alone will amount to $30K a year. I would not choose to be a doctor if I was only getting paid $70K a year and my loans took up pretty much every penny of it. If med school was free, I'd be happy with $70K a year, but you can bet that I would only be working 40 hours or so a week (even during residency). I would probably be pretty picky about the circumstances I'd work under too.
$70K is a lot of money to me right now, but considering the amount of work that it takes to become a doctor, I wouldn't accept it under our current situation... (high med school debt, high malpractice, 80 hour work weeks during residency, 60 hour work weeks afterwards)

 

[DropkickMurphy]

You realize that DropKick has taught EMS classes, right?

He doesn't believe me.....he PM'ed me and accused me of not knowing what I'm talking about.

Just because there is no equipment available doesn't mean the playing field is equal.

I'd take a well trained EMT over a dermatologist, oncologist, radiologist, gastroenterologist or neurologist in an emergency any day of the week. Do you realize how clueless the average MD (outside of anesthesia, surgery, CCM, EM, or perhaps cardiology) is when it comes to handling emergencies? I think you'd be surprised.

 

[Neelesh]

I would still choose to be a doctor. I would also choose to be in-state.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

And I won't even go into a full rant about ACLS. Board exams for doctors are well beyond the level of ACLS or other merit-badge courses. It's almost ridiculous to me that physicians are forced to take these courses to work at certain hospitals.

I take it you've never actually taken a hard and fast look at what is covered on the boards? It isn't exactly geared towards knowledge that would give you an edge in emergencies for the most part. It's about as good of a judge of how well you'd do at handling a crashing asthmatic, AMI or an anaphylactic patient as the MCAT is a judge of ones' ability to produce VX nerve agent.

 

[45408]

I hate to break it to you, but no matter what you ultimately earn, there are going to be folks out there that earn more than you and got there in less time and with less education.

KNOW WEIGH! really?

I could always get a PhD in mathematics and go on to make $680,000,000 a year, the James Simons way. Hmmmmm.

edit: make that $1,700,000,000 in 2005. Anyways, I'm pretty sure there will always be someone making more than me. I won't lose sleep over it.

 

[dutchman]

You can't form a union composed of independant contractors. Since doctors (at least in most of America) are nobody's "employees", the "union" concept doesn't apply, since they would have no one to negotiate with. A residents union is a little better, but would probably never get off the ground, since Residency is a discrete period of time, and few residents would willingly rock the boat when they see the light at the end of the tunnel anyway.

What you are describing in your post is essentially a political-action committee. We have one; it's called the AMA. You may have noticed by now that they spend inordinate amounts of time and money bitching and moaning, and never seem to accomplish anything.

I also have never really been clear why you think the Feds are the way to go to fix the money problem. Do you really see Medicare reimbursement kicking salaries up into the stratosphere again? Nah. The answer is private money. You have to figure out how to screw the private insurers, since they're the only ones who reimburse at high levels any more.

Yes, hence the antitrusst laws that I was talking about. The Idea is that there needs to be a lobby to allow a physicians union the ability to negotiate with medicare and medicaid, since those programs largely affect the way even private insurers reimburse. Physicians are really in a wierd position with the antitrust laws, as I don't think it was designed to create this type of handicap. When medicare/medicaid wants to take money from pharmaceutical companies they actually negotiate with them, but with doctors they just cut the reimbursements with no discussion. Doctors cant just let that keep going without check.

 

[45408]

we already agree that RN's often get paid more than residents, even if residents work more.

No kidding. My wife (nurse) already makes more than I will as a resident, let alone in 3.5 years when I'll be a resident. Hopefully she'll be close to $60K/year then.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

KNOW WEIGH! really?

I could always get a PhD in mathematics and go on to make $680,000,000 a year, the James Simons way. Hmmmmm.

edit: make that $1,700,000,000 in 2005. Anyways, I'm pretty sure there will always be someone making more than me. I won't lose sleep over it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harris_Simons

for the viewers at home.

I have a new idea, lets just beg this guy for some money.

 

[NickRiviera]

Couple questions:

1) Do you actually have any experience or special knowledge about the EMS system, or are you just a starry-eyed premed who thinks that an MD makes you competant in all medical situations?

2) Have you ever seen or been part of a code? Do you realize that managing an emergency situation involves carrying out specific actions in stepwise order according to an EBM-validated algorithm? Would you rather have an EMT (who performs these steps daily) working on your family member, or a Dermatologist/Gastroenterologist/Pulmonologist/Plastic Surgeon?

3) Do you really consider ACLS a "merit-badge course"? Have you taken it? And can you name a single hospital that does not require physicians to have ACLS certification?

and most importantly . . .

4) Are you making poor points in an attempt to discredit another SDN member whose posts you don't like? Better get your facts together, because right now you just sound kind of sour-grapes . . .

1) I'm a paramedic, 7 years now, EMT for 3 years before that. Fill in the required merit-badge course acronyms after my name.
2) See above. We're talking no equipment where even a paramedic simply has BLS at their hands and maybe some ACLS maneuvers (like valsalva). But OK, a Dermatologist who had 6 weeks in the ER during their 3rd year rotations and never uses it might be out of practice.
3) So you're saying even the Dermatologist needs ACLS. So they have the same training for emergency situations. Practice or not, I'd take the doc. I'm saying hospitals require it but that it seems ridiculous.
4) It's not that I dislike his posts. It's that his posts are incorrect and people are looking around SDN for useful information. He is saying the information is correct because of his background, yet it isn't.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

1) I'm a paramedic, 7 years now, EMT for 3 years before that. Fill in the required merit-badge course acronyms after my name.
2) See above. We're talking no equipment where even a paramedic simply has BLS at their hands and maybe some ACLS maneuvers (like valsalva). But OK, a Dermatologist who had 6 weeks in the ER during their 3rd year rotations and never uses it might be out of practice.
3) So you're saying even the Dermatologist needs ACLS. So they have the same training for emergency situations. Practice or not, I'd take the doc. I'm saying hospitals require it but that it seems ridiculous.
4) It's not that I dislike his posts. It's that his posts are incorrect and people are looking around SDN for useful information. He is saying the information is correct because of his background, yet it isn't.

Ah....paragod syndrome....... I thought it smelled like pompous ass in here....

 

[NickRiviera]

Ah....paragod syndrome....... I thought it smelled like pompous ass in here....

ParaGod, never ever ever heard that one before. Ever. Fresh. Keep the EMS jokes coming. I said I thought a doctor would be better on-scene, not a paramedic. This is going to keep dragging from the OP so just PM me if you disagree with me.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

I'd rather have an EM doc or CCM doc (or a couple of other specialties who deal with critical pts on a regular basis) on scene than a medic. I'll give you that much. Pretty much anyone else, there is too much individual variability to judge them as a group. You still haven't managed to show where I was wrong (other than the flub about whether it's licensure or certification in Illinois and that's an honest mistake as I pointed out in my PM; if anyone else cares (which I don't think many do) I'll post the reason for the error.

It reads across the top of the card I was issued by the State of Illinois when I was credentialed: "License, Permit, Certification, Registration"

You're simply making yourself seem petty by trying to make me look bad.

 

[goodlookinrebel]

If I were in it for the money then the idea of handing over 13 years of my life for $150,000 doesnt really seem like a fair trade. I say BOO! to all of you hardhearted cynics who cant understand how someone would actually lay down their life for the betterment of others and with little to no economic payoff. Some people have a heart for the poor. Some poeple have spent time in impoverishd third world countries and feel the calling to fill the need for medical care in underserved and underprivelidged areas. Just because you may be very selfish and short sighted people, there is no reason for you to belittle everyone else that doesnt see it your way. I wouldnt know what to do with $70,000 let alone $150,000. Either is enough to provide well for a family. If you are in it for the money and happen to enjoy medicine as well then why not just buy a McDonalds franchise and vollunteer in a nursing home? Better money and more patient contact.

Note: I am not advocating socialized medicine, I am only advocating service and selfessness.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Ah good, at least we can have an intelligent discussion (Genetics, stay out of this). For the record, I am former ER Tech (4y) at two Level I's, current MSIV, matched to Ortho.

Personally, I disagree with both of you. I would want the medic on scene over the ER Doc or CCM doc. The reason being simply that these docs have zero experience without equipment, whereas the medics do. An CCM doc without his toys is about as useful as . . . well . . . an Orthopedist without his K-wires.

That being said: Yes, I do want the Derm doc to have ACLS. That way his patient with metastatic melanoma who accidently codes in the clinic will at least have a fighting chance of living one more day. It is also cathartic, in my mind, to require the boutique docs to get back to their roots, even if it's only for one day every 2 years.

Such a minor disagreement to get so worked up over. You think Dropkick is a tool. He thinks you are a tool. What is not clear to me is where he is "incorrect". I sense simmering anger carried over from previous threads, but this thread is a poor excuse for a flame war.

Maybe we need to revive "Why Medicine is a Bad Idea" (anyone else remember that gem?).

I'm willing to let it drop. I have no further issue with Nick if he has no further issue with me.

 

[etf]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Harris_Simons

for the viewers at home.

I have a new idea, lets just beg this guy for some money.

first of all, it's jim simons. second of all, if you could run a hedge fund that has returned over 30% annually for about 2 decades (the most successful one ever), you'd deserve every penny of that 1.5B.

 

[etf]

It takes a special person to be a physician.

not really. at the end of the day, it's just a job.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Some poeple have spent time in impoverishd third world countries and feel the calling to fill the need for medical care in underserved and underprivelidged areas. Just because you may be very selfish and short sighted people, there is no reason for you to belittle everyone else that doesnt see it your way.

Personally, as someone who has traveled extensively, I would love to go to South America or Asia and help train the locals to help deliver at least cursory medical care and to provide what care I can while I am there. However, I need money to do that and that is one of my reasons for wanting to be paid well for my work here in the US. But SHHHHHHH! Don't spread that around....I have a reputation to uphold!

 

[DropkickMurphy]

It takes a special person to be a physician.

Two words: Josef Mengele.

 

[Trance Ninja]

Two words: Josef Mengele.

haha I love this pic.



but honestly, my statement still stands. I guess it depends on your definition of special. I think all of God's creatures are special, for instance.

 

[gary5]

At 70k, I could not pay off my massive med school loans. I would have to quit medicine and go corporate instead - probably biomedical R&D. Unfortunately, because of the progressive and unrelenting damage that insurance companies are doing to the profession and the past and present failure of physicians to defend their profession, I may end up doing this anyway.

 

[PugMD]

I was just wondering if you guys will still try to go to medschool, quit medicine if you are already doctors, or work while whinning?

Honestly I think Id find another area of medicine to pursue. The sacrifice to become a physician is too great for compensation of 70K or less. Can you imagine what your final take would be after insurance/taxes? Not to mention how long it would take to pay back loans...

 

[Taty]

Personally, I would not care...I want to do what makes my life happy. I spend 8 + hours at work and I want to do what I want to do. I want to be a doctor and if my hours going to be nasty ( my current job hours are no better) and I have 70K, anyway I will be a doctor because this is that will make me happy...i dont care about salary as long as what I do gives me satisfaction.

 

[IceMan0824]

Find the OP and beat him senseless.

 

[VCgirl]

Find the OP and beat him senseless.

I already make more than $70K working as a medicinal chemist with a BA degree! It's annoying to hear that people are mostly in it for the money. It should be about personal satisfaction and doing what you see yourself excelling in. I could continue working as a chemist and be making over $100K by the time that I would be done with medical school AND have no debt, but I am not happy with my job.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

If I were in it for the money then the idea of handing over 13 years of my life for $150,000 doesnt really seem like a fair trade. I say BOO! to all of you hardhearted cynics who cant understand how someone would actually lay down their life for the betterment of others and with little to no economic payoff. Some people have a heart for the poor. Some poeple have spent time in impoverishd third world countries and feel the calling to fill the need for medical care in underserved and underprivelidged areas. Just because you may be very selfish and short sighted people, there is no reason for you to belittle everyone else that doesnt see it your way. I wouldnt know what to do with $70,000 let alone $150,000. Either is enough to provide well for a family. If you are in it for the money and happen to enjoy medicine as well then why not just buy a McDonalds franchise and vollunteer in a nursing home? Better money and more patient contact.

Note: I am not advocating socialized medicine, I am only advocating service and selfessness.

omg, get out of this forum!!! 10000 people have just died this last second!!! you could have saved 3 of them. go! stop wasting time! OMG I CANT BELIEVE YOU'RE STILL READING THIS! GO ALL OF YOU! HAVE YOU NO HEART! STOP READING THIS! GO SAVE SOME PEOPLE!! DO IT!! WHY ARE YOU SO HARDHEARTED!! DAMN YOU!! STOP READING THIS!!! PEOPLE ARE DYING AS YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW DOCTORS ARE SORELY UNDERPAID!!!

money is a human currency. most doctors (or at least premeds here) are likely into medicine because of something more than this base human currency. of course we want to help people. stop it. you are not mother theresa.

 

[Taty]

...and...the whole process favors people with money...but I will stop here...

 

[45408]

Ask a doctor if they feel on-scene they cannot do more than a paramedic can. There is an old saying that says a Paramedic becomes an EMT with no equipment and an EMT becomes a bystander.

And a radiologist becomes a pain in the butt. What is he going to do? Use his x-ray vision to see the obstruction? At least the EMS personnel are more up to speed on BLS and extrication/stabilization. I'm fully aware of my limitations as a (now retired) EMT when I just happen to be around an emergency, but that doesn't make me useless.

 

[45408]

I wouldnt know what to do with $70,000 let alone $150,000. Either is enough to provide well for a family.

Have a few children, buy a house and two cars, and get back to me on that one. In 2004, healthcare expenditures were $24,000 for a family of four. If your spouse is also working, you'll be healthy middle class, but a household income of $70K is NOT baller status. You can feed your children, but you won't be saving for a college fund, a nice retirement, or your mid-life crisis.

 

[45408]

omg, get out of this forum!!! 10000 people have just died this last second!!! you could have saved 3 of them. go! stop wasting time! OMG I CANT BELIEVE YOU'RE STILL READING THIS! GO ALL OF YOU! HAVE YOU NO HEART! STOP READING THIS! GO SAVE SOME PEOPLE!! DO IT!! WHY ARE YOU SO HARDHEARTED!! DAMN YOU!! STOP READING THIS!!! PEOPLE ARE DYING AS YOU COMPLAIN ABOUT HOW DOCTORS ARE SORELY UNDERPAID!!!

money is a human currency. most doctors (or at least premeds here) are likely into medicine because of something more than this base human currency. of course we want to help people. stop it. you are not mother theresa.

 

[NickRiviera]

And a radiologist becomes a pain in the butt. What is he going to do? Use his x-ray vision to see the obstruction? At least the EMS personnel are more up to speed on BLS and extrication/stabilization. I'm fully aware of my limitations as a (now retired) EMT when I just happen to be around an emergency, but that doesn't make me useless.

PM me if you want to discuss this as it's off topic. I didn't say useless; I said doctors would be better on-scene. Really, we can go back and forth on this forever. I'd rather see input from actual doctors or at least residents/students before dismissing them. I've had a great deal of experience with both.

 

[Genetics]

I already make more than $70K working as a medicinal chemist with a BA degree! It's annoying to hear that people are mostly in it for the money. It should be about personal satisfaction and doing what you see yourself excelling in. I could continue working as a chemist and be making over $100K by the time that I would be done with medical school AND have no debt, but I am not happy with my job.

You must live in an big city to make that type of money with only a BA!

Quote: "The starting salary for a B.S. chemist ranges from the high $30,000- to the high $40,000-per-year range. Master's degree holders earn salaries in the high-$40,000 to mid-$50,000-per year range. The salary for Ph.D. chemists ranges from mid- to high-$60,000 to mid-$90,000-per-year."

www.acsmedchem.org/medicinalchemistry.pdf

 

[DropkickMurphy]

PM me if you want to discuss this as it's off topic. I didn't say useless; I said doctors would be better on-scene. Really, we can go back and forth on this forever. I'd rather see input from actual doctors or at least residents/students before dismissing them. I've had a great deal of experience with both.

I'll post a link to your post in the EM forums.

 

[goodlookinrebel]

stop it. you are not mother theresa.

That where your wrong.

I am not saying that the money isnt important. It is important and there is not a whole lot that you can do without it, epsecially helping the poor. I was responding to some earlier post about "anyone that says there not in it for the money is full of s***t" that no one seemed to feel the need to counter.

But seriously, if I was in medicine for the money I would become a nurse. Nurses put much less in for a still plenty hefty payoff, AND more employment felxibilty(travel nursing), not tied down to mecical school and residency and such. If you are in it for YOU, then nursing is a much better deal IMHO.

I want to become an MD because I feel that I could make a much larger impact. I have friends who are Nurse Practitioners and operating clinics in Africa and India, and all they ever ask for is better equipment and Mds. To this end I agree with Dropkick, the more money you make the more you can put out there to build and supply clinics. So I do feel that MD salaries should remain high, but the motivations of the individual Mds are an entirely different story alltogether.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

That where your wrong.

I am not saying that the money isnt important. It is important and there is not a whole lot that you can do without it, epsecially helping the poor. I was responding to some earlier post about "anyone that says there not in it for the money is full of s***t" that no one seemed to feel the need to counter.

But seriously, if I was in medicine for the money I would become a nurse. Nurses put much less in for a still plenty hefty payoff, AND more employment felxibilty(travel nursing), not tied down to mecical school and residency and such. If you are in it for YOU, then nursing is a much better deal IMHO.

I want to become an MD because I feel that I could make a much larger impact. I have friends who are Nurse Practitioners and operating clinics in Africa and India, and all they ever ask for is better equipment and Mds. To this end I agree with Dropkick, the more money you make the more you can put out there to build and supply clinics. So I do feel that MD salaries should remain high, but the motivations of the individual Mds are an entirely different story alltogether.

I felt that you were strolling in on your high horse of impeccable morals. I tend to hate pre-meds that do that. But I understand your answer now in context since you were replying to an earlier post (I didn't get that at first).

I'm with you with the third world. Part of why I want to go to Penn is because of their stress on global health (I'm Indian and my parents were born/raised in Kenya).

Baby pre-meds are idealists, pre-med pre-meds are sorta losing it...., med students are realists, as are doctors.

 

[8744]

...Personally, I disagree with both of you. I would want the medic on scene over the ER Doc or CCM doc. The reason being simply that these docs have zero experience without equipment, whereas the medics do. An CCM doc without his toys is about as useful as . . . well . . . an Orthopedist without his K-wires...

Huh? Without equipment it's all just BLS (basic life support). I don't know why you think that EM and CCM physicians don't know how to do BLS. If I were in an MVA in the middle of nowhere I'd much rather have an Emergency Physician happen by without any equipment than a paramedic without any. You don't need that much equipment to do ACLS or ATLS anyways. You certainly don't need a ventilator or a fancy pumps.

Besides, last time I checked, paramedics had all kinds of equipment including defribillators, ET tubes, and LMAs, not to mention all of the ACLS drugs.

Just because the critical care doctor or the EM attending is standing around giving orders while the tech is giving chest compressions doesn't mean that they don't know what they're doing or that the tech is in charge.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Huh? Without equipment it's all just BLS (basic life support). I don't know why you think that EM and CCM physicians don't know how to do BLS. If I were in an MVA in the middle of nowhere I'd much rather have an Emergency Physician happen by without any equipment than a paramedic without any.

Besides, last time I checked, paramedics had all kinds of equipment including defribillators, ET tubes, and LMAs, not to mention all of the ACLS drugs.

Just because the critical care doctor or the EM attending is standing around giving orders while the tech is giving chest compressions doesn't mean that they don't know what they're doing or that the tech is in charge.

What about other docs who don't routinely deal with critical patients (which is the focus of my contention)?

 

[goodlookinrebel]

Baby pre-meds are idealists, pre-med pre-meds are sorta losing it...., med students are realists, as are doctors.

Well I am actually a nontrad and I dont really consider myself an idealist or a realist. I think the ones who often make history are those who keep a healthy balance of both. How would you describe MLK? Or Albert Schweitzer?(not even attempting to draw a comparison to myself) I dont think that they could be labeled so easily. There is nothing wrong with having high ideals and there is nothing wrong with being realistic about the necessary steps involved in making those ideals a working part of reality. Some of the greatest feats in history have been accomplished by such thinking, while some of history's darkest moments have been the results of one extreme over the other.

 

[8744]

That where your wrong.

I am not saying that the money isnt important. It is important and there is not a whole lot that you can do without it, epsecially helping the poor. I was responding to some earlier post about "anyone that says there not in it for the money is full of s***t" that no one seemed to feel the need to counter.

But seriously, if I was in medicine for the money I would become a nurse. Nurses put much less in for a still plenty hefty payoff, AND more employment felxibilty(travel nursing), not tied down to mecical school and residency and such. If you are in it for YOU, then nursing is a much better deal IMHO.

I want to become an MD because I feel that I could make a much larger impact. I have friends who are Nurse Practitioners and operating clinics in Africa and India, and all they ever ask for is better equipment and Mds. To this end I agree with Dropkick, the more money you make the more you can put out there to build and supply clinics. So I do feel that MD salaries should remain high, but the motivations of the individual Mds are an entirely different story alltogether.

Your impact will be negligable. Sorry. And even a primary care physician makes, on an hourly basis, three times what a typical nurse makes.

Money, and by this I mean a good income that can provide a high standard of living along with financial security, is the only really good reason to go into medicine. You should like your job, of course, but it's not necessary for it to be one long orgasmic interlude that you regret leaving for sleeping, eating, bathing, and defecating.


As for the poor, **** 'em. I take care of them every single day. They get plenty from me and I don't have to get all sanctimonious about it.

 

[8744]

What about other docs who don't routinely deal with critical patients (which is the focus of my contention)?

Oh, I agree with you there. I just don't see what equipment has to do with it. I'm a better doctor without equipment because all of the alarms and flashing lights frighten and confuse me.

 

[goodlookinrebel]

Wow, amazing what little social concern seems to exist amongst the pre-meds here. I guess doctors really are a conservative bunch in more ways than one. So most people are in it for the money? F*** the poor? Well if thats what you want your life to count for than I say more power to ya.

 

[Stolenspatulas]

Wow, amazing what little social concern seems to exist amongst the pre-meds here. I guess doctors really are a conservative bunch in more ways than one. So most people are in it for the money? F*** the poor? Well if thats what you want your life to count for than I say more power to ya.

Pandabear has his own way of answering questions.

I think he is right in his scope of the benefit of just one more doctor. As a doctor, you will make differences in the lives of those you treat. HOWEVER, if you never existed, someone else would treat those people, someone else would take that med school spot from you.

A single doctor's influence is most often always negligible (exceptions include researchers, and those that teach African masses how to put mosquito nets around their beds).

I guess my point is... don't kid yourself into thinking you are important because you are a doctor.

 

[sirus_virus]

Wow, amazing what little social concern seems to exist amongst the pre-meds here. I guess doctors really are a conservative bunch in more ways than one. So most people are in it for the money? F*** the poor? Well if thats what you want your life to count for than I say more power to ya.

Panda was being sarcastic, BTW there are a whole bunch of "I will do it for free" guys on the thread.

Infact Pre-allo is where I come anytime I want to distance myself from reality. Practice medicine for 70K

 

[MossPoh]

I disagree. The training of a physician is less cerebral than the training of a Ph.D in electrical engineering or physics. If we're paying people by how hard the content they learn is, doctors should make less than engineers or physics majors.

Doctors are not -- I repeat, ARE NOT -- the smartest group of professionals.

I agree, but cerebral does not equal intensity either. Many people don't go on in those areas not because it is difficult, but because they just don't like it... Tons of engineers graduate undergrad and are just content with the bachelors..why would they go for more when the payoff isn't always much better?

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Wow, amazing what little social concern seems to exist amongst the pre-meds here. I guess doctors really are a conservative bunch in more ways than one. So most people are in it for the money? F*** the poor? Well if thats what you want your life to count for than I say more power to ya.

Panda is an EM resident, not a premed.

 

[sirus_virus]

Actually I have learned something from this thread. Like I said on another thread--as a doctor, since there are so many patients/customers, I will find a way to cherry pick all the good paying insurances and patients, then I will dump the nonpaying cutomers at the doorsteps of the idealists doctors like the ones that dont mind working for 70K on this thread. You get to work for free, I get to make my bank, patients get taken care of, we are all happy.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

Actually I have learned something from this thread. Like I said on another thread--as a doctor, since there are so many patients/customers, I will find a way to cherry pick all the good paying insurances and patients, then I will dump the nonpaying cutomers at the doorsteps of the idealists doctors like the ones that dont mind working for 70K on this thread. You get to work for free, I get to make my bank, patients get taken care of, we are all happy.

I want to practice with you.

 

[goodlookinrebel]

A single doctor's influence is most often always negligible (exceptions include researchers, and those that teach African masses how to put mosquito nets around their beds).

I have friends operating orphanages in Mozambique and Kenya, and they are having a pretty hard time attracting doctors to give their time. There is a hole of need and the stopper of charity is far too small. Every life is precious yes? Therefore every action or lack thereof towards the alleviation of suffering DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I suffer from a chronic ilness myself and happen to have spent a good deal of time in hospitals. You can tell when your doctor is just in it for the money and the chicks. And in real life its not funny like it is on Scrubs. In fact it is an awful experience to entrust ones life to someone who really doesnt seem to care. So in the third world or a developed western nation, our attitudes and motivations impact how we operate as physicians, It all makes a difference.