What would you do if physicians' income dropped to 70K

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DropkickMurphy said:
I want to practice with you. :laugh:
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I tell you what, that is a secret that Insurance companies, HMOs and the government have discovered. You can actually ride the backs of idealist doctors all the way to the bank, and i want my share of the pie. This thread shows me there is plentifull supply of idealists, and I am thinking $$. I am reading a lot about the business of medicine AKA "how to screw doctors". So guys, please don't do it for the money, leave that to me.
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goodlookinrebel said:
I have friends operating orphanages in Mozambique and Kenya, and they are having a pretty hard time attracting doctors to give their time. There is a hole of need and the stopper of charity is far too small. Every life is precious yes? Therefore every action or lack thereof towards the alleviation of suffering DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

I suffer from a chronic ilness myself and happen to have spent a good deal of time in hospitals. You can tell when your doctor is just in it for the money and the chicks. And in real life its not funny like it is on Scrubs. In fact it is an awful experience to entrust ones life to someone who really doesnt seem to care. So in the third world or a developed western nation, our attitudes and motivations impact how we operate as physicians, It all makes a difference.
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i included the exception to the rule for those that go abroad to help in the third world where there are shortages of doctors (or anywhere else where there are shortages of doctors....wait, maybe one more able doctor wouldnt help if there was a shortage... hmm.... how much would one more help?... oh maybe a LOT more... that would help... hmm... but that would mean im not important as an individual, that would mean im only important if im included in a big group...hmm).

most of the people who read this forum will not do that. most of them will work in the U.S., and the U.S. only. For them, their status as a doctor is negligible. There are much more people that apply to med school than get in. What does that tell you? If you didnt apply... the U.S. would still be ok.

I'm glad that you do have these sharp strong feelings that all life is precious. Let that be your guiding light.
 
sirus_virus said:
Panda was being sarcastic, BTW there are a whole bunch of "I will do it for free" guys on the thread.

Infact Pre-allo is where I come anytime I want to distance myself from reality. Practice medicine for 70K :laugh: :laugh:
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Too right. As to the poor, I reiterate, **** 'em. They get plenty of help and attention from me including high quality (and rapidly improving) medical care, more attention than they probably get or will ever get from any other person in their lives, and sound advice on what they can do to stay healthy and prevent disease. I may as well get paid for it. What's the sense of not getting paid? Is my not getting the 200K or so per year that I hope to make as a starting salary on that glorious day when I stop working for minimum wage going to get them better health care? I see about 400 patients a month in the Emergency Department. That's almost 5000 patients per year and about eight bucks a head at my current salary and around fifty bucks when I am working for real money.

Whoopdy friggin doo. Let us all please stop kissing the asses of the underserved. They may be underserved but I'm sure as hell serving them which is why I don't have the guilt and angst over their condition that many of you have who's only experience is holding some DABs.

I'm a pleasant SDN fellow but this thread, for some strange reason, really pisses me off. As if you mother-****ers are really going to be happy, after twelve years of education, working for less than an enterprising truck driver can make after six months of Diesel Driving Academy.
 
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I really admire what you do and have always enjoyed reading your blog:love: . You just have a piss poor attitude:thumbdown: . Its ok, not everyone can be perfect.:(
 
Genetics said:
You must live in an big city to make that type of money with only a BA!

Quote: "The starting salary for a B.S. chemist ranges from the high $30,000- to the high $40,000-per-year range. Master's degree holders earn salaries in the high-$40,000 to mid-$50,000-per year range. The salary for Ph.D. chemists ranges from mid- to high-$60,000 to mid-$90,000-per-year."

www.acsmedchem.org/medicinalchemistry.pdf
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Yes, I live in Boston. I also have been working for six years and switched companies three times, which also results in a salary increase. A chemist starting in Boston makes close to $60K, depending on the company. Thanks for the salary.com update...like it is necessary :).
 
Yes, that is another thing people forget on this thread. if you like working for low wages, you get the opportunity to do that during residency for about 6.50/hr. You are also at that point serving the community with your virtually free labor. I however dont care at this point, hopefully these "work for free" guys carry on with this mentality, because I am going to need them down the road.
 
goodlookinrebel said:
I really admire what you do and have always enjoyed reading your blog:love: . You just have a piss poor attitude:thumbdown: . Its ok, not everyone can be perfect.:(
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Oh no. I have a great attitude. If you asked any nurse here, I'm the guy who is always cheerful and never minds being paged at 3 AM. And, while this may be because I always shower, shave, and brush my teeth when I am on call, I never drag my ass or lose my good humor no matter how far into the post-call day I am. Additionally, and I'm not bragging here, people say I am probably one of the top two or three funniest guys in our program and (because EM has the funniest residents) in the hospital.

I think if you took a poll of my patients they'd also almost unanimously say that they get excellent care and attention from me. Again, I'm not bragging, just telling you how it is.

I have the best attitude you can possibly have. I come in on time, do my job, and mind the hundreds of little details that can kill a patient if they are ignored. I think what confuses you is that while I spend my days and nights serving the poor and underpriveleged, I don't get all mushy and sanctimonious about it.
 
sirus_virus said:
Yes, that is another thing people forget on this thread. if you like working for low wages, you get the opportunity to do that during residency for about 6.50/hr. You are also at that point serving the community with your virtually free labor. I however dont care at this point, hopefully these "work for free" guys carry on with this mentality, because I am going to need them down the road.
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And if you really can't get enough of it, you can do a fellowship or two or three and work for minimum wage for your entire life. Strangely enough, hardly anybody does this.
 
sirus_virus said:
Yes, that is another thing people forget on this thread. if you like working for low wages, you get the opportunity to do that during residency for about 6.50/hr. You are also at that point serving the community with your virtually free labor. I however dont care at this point, hopefully these "work for free" guys carry on with this mentality, because I am going to need them down the road.
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You're too funny dude.

I want a mansion too. Whats wrong with that? Oprah has a mansion and so does Bill Gates... wait, actually they have multiple mansions!!! you know how many DABs they could've transformed into ABs if they weren't so selfish!!!

I just thought of something brilliant. A doctor would have more of an impact on the world if he/she did not practice medicine but somehow convinced Oprah or Bill Gates or someone else sickly rich to donate 1% more of their money to healthcare.

Oh think of the DABs!!!! Life is so precious. I think I deserve some ice cream for thinking such holy beautiful thoughts. My soul just smiled, and God smiled back.
 
goodlookinrebel said:
I really admire what you do and have always enjoyed reading your blog:love: . You just have a piss poor attitude:thumbdown: . Its ok, not everyone can be perfect.:(
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No, there's nothing wrong with Panda.....you've just got your head stuck somewhere.....be it in the clouds or somewhere a little darker and less pleasant, I'll leave that decision to the masses on this thread. :laugh:
 
My only point was that for someone who has a great attitude and serves the poor so much he seems to have quite a distaste for them. "F$@k em" isnt a term I use without distaste. This thread has officially "De-Railed".http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nHPMPmAjWc
 
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goodlookinrebel said:
I have friends operating orphanages in Mozambique and Kenya, and they are having a pretty hard time attracting doctors to give their time. There is a hole of need and the stopper of charity is far too small. Every life is precious yes? Therefore every action or lack thereof towards the alleviation of suffering DOES MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
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I went to an orphanage in Mozambique and am longing to go back there for short term missions!!!

Other than that lets just say as a 7 year old I told my parents I wanted to be a doctor and I asked "Will I make enough money to live?" My mom being smart simply replied yes. I would do it if doctors only could make $40,000 it isn't about money to me! I want to be a doctor always have always will!
 
Panda Bear said:
Too right. As to the poor, I reiterate, **** 'em. They get plenty of help and attention from me including high quality (and rapidly improving) medical care, more attention than they probably get or will ever get from any other person in their lives, and sound advice on what they can do to stay healthy and prevent disease. I may as well get paid for it. What's the sense of not getting paid? Is my not getting the 200K or so per year that I hope to make as a starting salary on that glorious day when I stop working for minimum wage going to get them better health care? I see about 400 patients a month in the Emergency Department. That's almost 5000 patients per year and about eight bucks a head at my current salary and around fifty bucks when I am working for real money.

Whoopdy friggin doo. Let us all please stop kissing the asses of the underserved. They may be underserved but I'm sure as hell serving them which is why I don't have the guilt and angst over their condition that many of you have who's only experience is holding some DABs.

I'm a pleasant SDN fellow but this thread, for some strange reason, really pisses me off. As if you mother-****ers are really going to be happy, after twelve years of education, working for less than an enterprising truck driver can make after six months of Diesel Driving Academy.
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Lots of talk but I like your main point, if I'm getting it right. If you give people a shortcut, some will take it. That includes other physicians who can take advantage of your good nature and run with the cash. Ah, human nature.
 
It's the economy.

Dropping pay to 70k would implicate that:

1.) cost of living has dropped
2.) costs associated with practice have dropped
3.) The invisible hand is at work. Extreme healthcare reform.

Now we have extreme left democrats out there yelling doctors should never make more than 90k a year. Those are extremists. So practically if it did get dropped by some healthcare reform, I would expect it to be less drastic than to 70k. Also, I would think that the healthcare reform would, at the same time, reduce the paperwork load on said physicians, thus reducing the amount of hours required to work while reducing the pay.


That being said, if it were 70k, I would still become a doctor. 70k is enough to gradually pay off debt and still live comfortably. I'm not particularly materialistic, just want a reliable car, a well furnished apartment/house, decent clothes, and to eat well. I think most single people can do that on 70k a year. Most importantly, I'd be earning it doing something I enjoy. I would take 70k to be a doctor over 150k to be a lawyer. Any day of the week.
 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Panda Bear.
 
Stolenspatulas said:
If you are not pre-allo why do you still post here? I've read your threads and learned your story.

You provide no insight into what we are going through. I am entirely 100% confused.
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It's cuz he's still searching for validation of his decision to leave medicine behind. Poor guy.
 
validation of his "decision" to leave medicine behind.
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Make sure you get it grammatically correct..... :laugh: :laugh:

Digital20Arse_hitler.jpg
 
tgp511 said:
It's the economy.

Dropping pay to 70k would implicate that:

1.) cost of living has dropped
2.) costs associated with practice have dropped
3.) The invisible hand is at work. Extreme healthcare reform.

Now we have extreme left democrats out there yelling doctors should never make more than 90k a year. Those are extremists. So practically if it did get dropped by some healthcare reform, I would expect it to be less drastic than to 70k. Also, I would think that the healthcare reform would, at the same time, reduce the paperwork load on said physicians, thus reducing the amount of hours required to work while reducing the pay.


That being said, if it were 70k, I would still become a doctor. 70k is enough to gradually pay off debt and still live comfortably. I'm not particularly materialistic, just want a reliable car, a well furnished apartment/house, decent clothes, and to eat well. I think most single people can do that on 70k a year. Most importantly, I'd be earning it doing something I enjoy. I would take 70k to be a doctor over 150k to be a lawyer. Any day of the week.
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Self deceit.
 
I would probably just move back in with my parents. Guys like girls that live at home still right? My heart-print sheets are really awesome, promise.
 
DropkickMurphy said:
No, there's nothing wrong with Panda.....you've just got your head stuck somewhere.....be it in the clouds or somewhere a little darker and less pleasant, I'll leave that decision to the masses on this thread. :laugh:
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There is nothing wrong with Panda, as DropkickMurphy said. Panda lives in the world of reality. He has presented the realities of medicine in his blog. Although I'm not a pre-med, I still like to read about peoples enjoyment, anxiety, and dislike towards medicine as it helps shape you into a better person and it allows you to understand where people come from. This helps with being able to connect to others around you. Only an ignorant pre-med, or an ignorant average joe, would think Panda has something up his but.

I do have 2 freinds who are medical students (both M3) and know 5 others who are in medical school. So I do have a sense of where Panda is comming from. I also have 3 years of work experience in a hospital. The things Panda has bloged about in his blog, I have seen myself and heard from my medical school friends as well.

Law2Doc is another person who understands reality. I'm sure there are others that should be included, but I don't know them by name.
 
VandyXGirl said:
I would probably just move back in with my parents. Guys like girls that live at home still right? My heart-print sheets are really awesome, promise.
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As long as there is privacy, I don't think any guy would care. :smuggrin:
 
Law2Doc said:
You might not be single forever though.
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I had the same mindset until I got into a serious relationship. Things change over time. 4 years ago I didn't care about how much money I would make in a career, where I wanted to live, who my friends are, and other things.

That has all changed. I am careful with the people who I hange out with and who I am conversing with (do you only talk with White people and no one else) on a daily basis, I need to make a certain wage to pay back loans (not needing to make 100k, but enough to have food on the table at night), and over time you do care where you live.

4 years ago I use to go with the flow, now I'm a leader.

When you change as a person, try to change for the better.
 
DropkickMurphy said:
Sounds good, but my girlfriend would have a problem with that. :laugh:
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A party would have more than two people. Bring her too. Official invite: SDN party at my parents' place. Time and place TBD.
 
Stolenspatulas said:
I've seen you run this argument in at least 10 threads. What do you think we should do about it? email our congressman? do you think that would actually work if everyone just did that independently? i can understand your pessimistic outlook, but, i don't see your solution.

There has to be something better.
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Go here. Probably too late this year, maybe next year. When you talk to them in person, and tell them that even though you grew up in the state, paid taxes in the state, and let the state underwrite your medical training, you won't be going back because you will earn more in state X, they listen. Also, the more people do it, the better it works.
 
goodlookinrebel said:
I have friends operating orphanages in Mozambique and Kenya, and they are having a pretty hard time attracting doctors to give their time.
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Then they should pay more
I suffer from a chronic ilness myself and happen to have spent a good deal of time in hospitals. You can tell when your doctor is just in it for the money and the chicks.
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Most of them
And in real life its not funny like it is on Scrubs.
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Never. It is always funny like it is on Scrubs.
 
Tired said:
I think Panda has something up his butt.

With all the a$$-kissing in this post, I believe it may be Genetics.
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This gets my vote for "Post of the Week"
 
sirus_virus said:
I was just wondering if you guys will still try to go to medschool, quit medicine if you are already doctors, or work while whinning?
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If salary dropped to 70k Id expect med school and undergrad to be free and to also receive a living stipend of at least 25k a year during med school and undergrad. Id also want for med school to be drawn out into 5 years so I wouldnt have to work as hard and also add an additional year onto most residencies so I wouldnt have to work as hard/as many hours a week. Id also expect to make 70k a year as a resident.

If these conditions were met (making the process of becomming a doctor less grueling) Id still do medicine as I do like the profession, but if Im working hard I expect to be compensated well.
 
MEG@COOL said:
If these conditions were met...
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You obviously can't seem to bring yourself to accepting this possibility as it sounds like you're holding someone hostage by your conditions. The OP plainly stated MD's yearly salaries dropping to $70k, period. There are no ifs, ands, or buts to it. Everything else stays the same.
 
OB1 said:
You obviously can't seem to bring yourself to accepting this possibility as it sounds like you're holding someone hostage by your conditions. The OP plainly stated MD's yearly salaries dropping to $70k, period. There are no ifs, ands, or buts to it. Everything else stays the same.
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In that case, I wouldn't take my exam this Friday. I'd be done. I'd say good riddance and that would be that.
There is no way I could pay off my loans and support my family on that salary. (interest alone on my loan will amount to $30K a year)
 
The poor smell bad, they do stupid things, make stupid choices, and have a tremendous sense of entitlement. But who says I don't like them? I love my patients.
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Well that pretty much says it all. If that is what med school does to you then maybe I shouldnt go because I would never want to be like that. But I would be willing to wager a hefty bet that you were an ugly hatefull cynic before you started med school so...where is that picture of kid in the special olympics and the thing about the ******s arguing? I am amazed that no one has posted that yet.

You want to talk about your superior experience, well hey I did four years of missionary work to the poor after highschool and I only came out of that loving them more for it. People are beautiful and you dont always know what they have been through. A lot of people(in America) are impoverished because of bad choices, but there is a lot more to their story than that and many people are also bound to the effects of the bad decisions of their parents and their parent's parent's and then the long lasting effects of historical injustices on different ethnic groups(think slavery). So dont be so quick to judge, you give fortunate white people a bad name and fulfill numerous often unfair stereotypes in doing so.

I certainly hope that you were not refering to anyone that was not raised in the states. People have no choice in where they are born and to judge them and call them stupid and smelly is inexcusable. Especially with the millions and millions of kids dying of starvation and being orphaned by aids, to call them smelly and stupid really isnt helping the situation.

I agree wit Ethan Hawke's character in "Before Sunset", in that people dont really change all that much in their lives. If you were a loving, charitable, and decent person before you went to med school then you will be the same loving, charitable, and decent person with an MD after your name when you get out. If you were stuck up judgemental ugly cynic before you went to med school then you will be a stuck up judgemental ugly cynic with an MD after your name and a cadillac in your garage.
 
goodlookinrebel said:
Well that pretty much says it all. If that is what med school does to you then maybe I shouldnt go because I would never want to be like that. But I would be willing to wager a hefty bet that you were an ugly hatefull cynic before you started med school so...where is that picture of kid in the special olympics and the thing about the ******s arguing? I am amazed that no one has posted that yet.

You want to talk about your superior experience, well hey I did four years of missionary work to the poor after highschool and I only came out of that loving them more for it. People are beautiful and you dont always know what they have been through. A lot of people(in America) are impoverished because of bad choices, but there is a lot more to their story than that and many people are also bound to the effects of the bad decisions of their parents and their parent's parent's and then the long lasting effects of historical injustices on different ethnic groups(think slavery). So dont be so quick to judge, you give fortunate white people a bad name and fulfill numerous often unfair stereotypes in doing so.

I certainly hope that you were not refering to anyone that was not raised in the states. People have no choice in where they are born and to judge them and call them stupid and smelly is inexcusable. Especially with the millions and millions of kids dying of starvation and being orphaned by aids, to call them smelly and stupid really isnt helping the situation.

I agree wit Ethan Hawke's character in "Before Sunset", in that people dont really change all that much in their lives. If you were a loving, charitable, and decent person before you went to med school then you will be the same loving, charitable, and decent person with an MD after your name when you get out. If you were stuck up judgemental ugly cynic before you went to med school then you will be a stuck up judgemental ugly cynic with an MD after your name and a cadillac in your garage.
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he's being realistic. most people aren't beautiful. actually, almost all people are ugly. it is NOT a prerequisite for doctors to think people are beautiful. It probably should be a prerequisite for doctors to think people are NOT beautiful. People mess up, repeatedily, and yes, often many elements of their upbringing etc do lead them to make repeated mistakes... but what does that have to do with anything? If you tell a patient to do something, and they still make the same mistakes and come in a week later, make you miss your sleep, do you still have to hold off frustration and get all warm and fuzzy inside and think, oh yea, he's a person... he's beautiful. i should help him even if he's an idiot. You should help him, because that is your duty as a physician.... BUT, you're just kidding yourself if you dont get ticked off.

Med school changes people. Life changes people. Movies aren't life. Hearsay isn't life. Life on my high horse stressing the beauty of the doctor profession is not reality.
 
Especially with the millions and millions of kids dying of starvation and being orphaned by aids, to call them smelly and stupid really isnt helping the situation.
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536381800448e62c69376f.gif

Neither are the bleeding heart premeds on this forum who like to pretend they can make a damn bit of difference. Unless you can undo decades of political unrest, drought, and find a cost effective cure and/or vaccine for HIV, you might as will piss into the wind.
 
Life on my high horse stressing the beauty of the doctor profession is not reality.
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I think this argument has gone beyond medicine and into character and philosophy...and as I am getting no supporters I guess I am off. Nothing good ever comes out of these situations. You guys want to spit on starving African Aids orphans then that is most definitely your prerogative. Just dont do it in front of me or Bono.
 
goodlookinrebel said:
I think this argument has gone beyond medicine and into character and philosophy...and as I am getting no supporters I guess I am off. Nothing good ever comes out of these situations. You guys want to spit on starving African Aids orphans then that is most definitely your prerogative. Just dont do it in front of me or Bono.
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Nah we'll hand you over to the local militia leaders and let them show you how much they appreciate what you're doing. As for Bono, I'd stop spitting on the African kids long enough to spit on him for being a self-righteous prick and advocate of the waste of scarce humanitarian resources on insurmountable problems.
 
goodlookinrebel said:
I think this argument has gone beyond medicine and into character and philosophy...and as I am getting no supporters I guess I am off. Nothing good ever comes out of these situations. You guys want to spit on starving African Aids orphans then that is most definitely your prerogative. Just dont do it in front of me or Bono.
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Bono is so $loaded$. He should give more of his money to DABs. Whats his problem. If he really did care he would give it all and keep just the limited amount he needed to survive. Isnt that would Jesus would do? Wait, isnt that what all super-rich people should do?!?? ISNT THAT WHAT EVERYONE SHOULD DO??!?!?? I SHOULD SELL MY LAPTOP AND DONATE THE MONEY FOR DABs RIGHT NOW!!! heh.

I'm sorry to attack your character especially since you've been very patient with all this oposition. I still think that you are far to0 idealistic, but hey, thats your choice.
 
Neither are the bleeding heart premeds on this forum who like to pretend they can make a damn bit of difference. Unless you can undo decades of political unrest, drought, and find a cost effective cure and/or vaccine for HIV, you might as will piss into the wind.
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I am pretty sure I remember George Wallace saying something similiar to Martin Luther King jr right before he changed the world and undid two hundred years of political unrest.

My grandfather was a doctor and I could take you around to a good number of people and communities he treated in Sonora Mexico who would beg to differ that one man CAN make a difference.

I dont know all of the numbers and I am not about to look them up, but I am sure the number of lives saved through world missions and third world advocacy groups and such would number in the multiple millions. My friends who went to Mozambique, they house, teach, and feed at least 5,000 children at any given time in their main orphanage with a number of other smaller orphanages across southern Africa. I would say thats making a difference, and it is because one ignorant silly idealist made a choice to live humbly for something larger than themselves.
 
Incase you guys haven't noticed, once dropkickmurphy starts posting on any thread, you can kiss that thread good bye. How did we go from 70K salary to spitting on bono?:laugh:

BTW dropkick, good job, this thread was not heading anywhere usefull to begin with.
 
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