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I agree with the above, but I think it really depends on the program how much more they value the NBME score over GPA. The 6 year programs are going to go by one's score a lot more so than the 4 years, simply because they need you to pass that test.

I think it's safe to say the 3 most important things to any OMFS program are (and again, not necessarily in order):

NBME score
Dental School GPA/Rank
OMFS Intern experience

If you're weak in one, then build up the other 2...I'm convinced that anyone determined to do OMFS can get in, it just might take longer, be more expensive, and you will have to be less picky about the program you're willing to match at than the person who has good numbers coming out of school
 
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NBME and class rank probably a bit behind. Class rank much more important then gpa.
 
I would say class rank is #1. I have a low class rank and good NBME score but am struggling to get interviews. Others in my class with higher class rank but high 50's/low 60's are getting more interviews.
 
I think you guys are over valuing the NBME CBSE even for 6yr programs...IMO it's more important to have OS experience and get to know your own school's OS ppl. I want someone who can actually do OS, not regurgitate medicine.
 
Sublimazing said:
great point. when i said GPA i kind of meant rank included in that. but you're right they're technically different and rank is more important.
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what if your school doesn't rank and has no grades?
 
gn4 said:
what if your school doesn't rank and has no grades?
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then your school rocks!! there is a reason that many of the schools with the highest incoming DAT and GPA averages are P/F. Having your class rank depend largely on subjective thoughts of random dentists who have no standardization between students is one of the stupidest ways to assign grades. Obviously, in your case the NBME means EVERYTHING. Others factors like externships, LORs, and extracurriculars might be scrutinized more.

Honestly, there are 100 programs out there and it really depends on each program director/ admission committee and the pool of applicants they get. I scored in the 70s on my NBME and have an exceptionally crappy class rank but I'm still getting interviews. Granted they are not at parkland or shreveport, but I have a strong chance of being in new york for the next 4-6 years.

Looking back at my mistakes, class rank is something you cannot take back once it's too far lost, but you can always take the NBME again (even years after graduation and score in the 70s like I did) and have a chance to repair a poor past performance. I'm stuck with my class rank and that will always pull me down at the mid--> higher tier programs.
 
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Is top 15-20 percent in the class a decent class rank for applying? I'm obviously still busting my tail for CBSE regardless.
 
jgillila said:
Is top 15-20 percent in the class a decent class rank for applying? I'm obviously still busting my tail for CBSE regardless.
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Yeah, pretty decent. Many people match with those class ranks.
 
vrzc said:
What does this mean? Shadowing them in the clinic? I'm failing to see how this would ever be considered on-par with rankings or NBME which are so objective. I get the feeling like every serious applicant has great letters from OS faculty.
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You'd be surprised.
 
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vrzc said:
What does this mean? Shadowing them in the clinic? I'm failing to see how this would ever be considered on-par with rankings or NBME which are so objective. I get the feeling like every serious applicant has great letters from OS faculty.
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You're right, and that's why I disagree that shadowing in the OMFS clinic, going to journal clubs/grand rounds, etc. make any difference unless your home program is the one you want to go to.

Our dept chair last week said it amazes him that he gets all of these applications from people with terrible grades and NBME scores, but if you read their recommendations it sounds like they are God's gift to OMFS. He said it is rare for him to get an applicant that doesn't have glowing recommendations. It makes sense, dental schools want their students to match; it makes them look good.

The only important OMFS experiences for getting interviews and matching are official experiences that you can put on your CV, with externships being by far the most important (other than an internship)
 
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For my program, if you are a great extern, you only need our minimum scores. We are looking for guys and gals that can fit in. If you got an interview, you have the minimum scores. After that, no one even measures you academically. We have a history of taking great externs just because they fit in well with the crowd. My point is that sometimes externships are the most important.

I love doing interviews when i don't even open their application. It almost freaks them out a little.
 
Necro'd this to ask a weird question..

I've heard of programs going unmatched due to self-imposed cutoffs for CBSE scores that essentially narrow down the candidate pool (perhaps too much, since they've gone unmatched). How often, if at all, does this happen with cutoffs imposed for class ranks? I read somewhere that some programs prefer applicants with really high ranks even if applicants have sub-60 CBSE scores, so I'm wondering if the same phenomenon of unmatching happens due to class rank cutoffs.

Thanks fam
 
resiliens said:
Necro'd this to ask a weird question..

I've heard of programs going unmatched due to self-imposed cutoffs for CBSE scores that essentially narrow down the candidate pool (perhaps too much, since they've gone unmatched). How often, if at all, does this happen with cutoffs imposed for class ranks? I read somewhere that some programs prefer applicants with really high ranks even if applicants have sub-60 CBSE scores, so I'm wondering if the same phenomenon of unmatching happens due to class rank cutoffs.

Thanks fam
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A lot of schools don't even have class rank. Does this mean that those programs who have cut offs for rank avoid interviewing applicants from those schools? I doubt it. The cut off for the CBSE is usually imposed by the affiliated medical school. And it's very important that the OMS resident can pass USMLE part 1 or they cannot progress through med school; therefore, cannot progress through the residency (for those in a 6 yr program). So to answer your question: I would be surprised if many programs have a hard cut off for class rank as they do for CBSE. But at the end of the day its up to the program director to select who to interview. So a lot of times its subjective.
 
Eli Manning said:
A lot of schools don't even have class rank. Does this mean that those programs who have cut offs for rank avoid interviewing applicants from those schools? I doubt it.
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Actually, my old department chairman said he did NOT want to invite anyone from a school that doesn't rank their own students unless they have an outstanding CBSE. Some schools don't rank their students. But if they are in the top 10 then it goes in their letter from the dean.

My old chairman wanted to know who was actually the top students and the real way to figure that out was by comparing students to each other, either by rank or CBSE. Some schools GPA's are inflated and the only way tell if they are top notch is to see how they rank amongst their own peers.

So if you don't get ranked by your school you better kill it on the CBSE!

Also, cut-off scores for CBSE are hardly set by medical schools. Most good OMS programs have such a stellar reputation with the associated medical school that the medical school will accept the OMS match results. If the medical schools really want to screen, they might do an interview themselves (like Emory). But I think that was the only medical school specific interview I did within the 10-12 OMS interviews.
 
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Phidippides said:
Also, cut-off scores for CBSE are hardly set by medical schools. Most good OMS programs have such a stellar reputation with the associated medical school that the medical school will accept the OMS match results. If the medical schools really want to screen, they might do an interview themselves (like Emory). But I think that was the only medical school specific interview I did within the 10-12 OMS interviews.
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Not true, sorry.
 
Phidippides said:
I disagree, but it is probably best for the applicants to ask the programs they apply to.
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This is wrong. Most medical schools have some sort of say in OMS resident selection. And they want you to score a minimum of 65-67 on the CBSE to show that you can pass Step 1 at 6 year programs. If you can't pass Step 1, you're not getting through the program.
 
GimmeTheScalpel said:
This is wrong. Most medical schools have some sort of say in OMS resident selection. And they want you to score a minimum of 65-67 on the CBSE to show that you can pass Step 1 at 6 year programs. If you can't pass Step 1, you're not getting through the program.
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Exactly my point earlier. If there is a cut off for CBSE then you can bet there is at least some input from the med school. The last thing they want is a resident who can't pass step 1 and cannot progress through residency. And no med school is going to award an oms resident an MD degree that cannot pass Step 1. And yes, this sort of thing is not uncommon. That's why some programs (Shreveport for example) require the incoming resident to score 70 or above prior to taking the Step 1 exam.
 
Sublimazing said:
I agree with the above, but I think it really depends on the program how much more they value the NBME score over GPA. The 6 year programs are going to go by one's score a lot more so than the 4 years, simply because they need you to pass that test.

I think it's safe to say the 3 most important things to any OMFS program are (and again, not necessarily in order):

NBME score
Dental School GPA/Rank
OMFS Intern experience

If you're weak in one, then build up the other 2...I'm convinced that anyone determined to do OMFS can get in, it just might take longer, be more expensive, and you will have to be less picky about the program you're willing to match at than the person who has good numbers coming out of school
Click to expand...
Where would you put research?
 
agent2362 said:
then your school rocks!! there is a reason that many of the schools with the highest incoming DAT and GPA averages are P/F. Having your class rank depend largely on subjective thoughts of random dentists who have no standardization between students is one of the stupidest ways to assign grades. Obviously, in your case the NBME means EVERYTHING. Others factors like externships, LORs, and extracurriculars might be scrutinized more.

Honestly, there are 100 programs out there and it really depends on each program director/ admission committee and the pool of applicants they get. I scored in the 70s on my NBME and have an exceptionally crappy class rank but I'm still getting interviews. Granted they are not at parkland or shreveport, but I have a strong chance of being in new york for the next 4-6 years.

Looking back at my mistakes, class rank is something you cannot take back once it's too far lost, but you can always take the NBME again (even years after graduation and score in the 70s like I did) and have a chance to repair a poor past performance. I'm stuck with my class rank and that will always pull me down at the mid--> higher tier programs.
Click to expand...
Not sure if you're still active, but why did you choose to do OMFS after graduation? How do you see the future of the field
 
Depends on the program director, 4-year vs. 6-years, and whether the medical school has any say.

One thing I wish someone drilled into my head before my interviews but have realized since I'm looking at this selection process from other side (resident) is this: Residents are looking for someone who is friendly (At very least smile during your interview and pre-interview dinner. When program directors ask us about you, our memory of your face should be one of where you look like you're glad to be interviewing at our program), easy to talk to, gets along well with everyone, and works hard. I couldn't care less about your ranking or CBSE score. If you got an interview, honestly, you're smart enough. You don't need top 10 ranking or 70+ CBSE to handle residency. From the resident's perspective, we just want someone easy to work with and is dependable and trustworthy.
 
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Sublimazing said:
I agree with the above, but I think it really depends on the program how much more they value the NBME score over GPA. The 6 year programs are going to go by one's score a lot more so than the 4 years, simply because they need you to pass that test.

I think it's safe to say the 3 most important things to any OMFS program are (and again, not necessarily in order):

NBME score
Dental School GPA/Rank
OMFS Intern experience

If you're weak in one, then build up the other 2...I'm convinced that anyone determined to do OMFS can get in, it just might take longer, be more expensive, and you will have to be less picky about the program you're willing to match at than the person who has good numbers coming out of school
Click to expand...

Medin2017 said:
Where would you put research?
Click to expand...

You could ask the education literature. The last study that answers this question, published in 2000 (Spina, Anthony M., Timothy A. Smith, Robert D. Marciani, and Edward O. Marshall. 2000. “A Survey of Resident Selection Procedures in Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery.” Journal of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery: Official Journal of the American Association of Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons 58 (6): 660–66.)(The Matrix still holds up after a longer period, why not this paper, right?) showed about 20% of program directors considered a research publication as "very important."

Roughly the same amount who considered an externship at their program, or an OMS internship "very important" (21.7%, 24.6% respectively). In contrast, 37.1% of responding program directors reported that college grades in basic science held the same level of importance.
 
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