What's the best first gun to own?

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[SIZE=-1]anufacturer > Glock > Glock OEM Factory Parts > Glock SP071511 Magazine Extensions Kit > Scherer Slug Plug > Pearce Grip PG-GP 3rd Mag Extender

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Pearce Grip PG-GP 3rd Mag Extender




This unit adds capacity to Mid and Full Size Glock high capacity magazines. This magazine extension replaces the original floor plate and internal locking plate and adds three rounds to a 9mm; two rounds to a 40SW and 357SIG, and one round to a 45GAP magazine.
  • These units alter the capacity of High Capacity Full Metal Lined Glock magazines.
  • These units add three rounds to the 9mm, two rounds to the 40SW and 357SIG and one round to the 45GAP models.
  • They are made from High Impact Polymer and withstand drop tests at temperatures from -20 F to 350 F.

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The thing I don't like about the G26/27 is the weight. The gun is fairly heavy at 26 ounces for warm weather climates. I fully respect those who Carry this fine weapon as it shoots like a dream at 25 feet and is as accurate as the G19.

Still, I prefer 15 ounces or less for Concealed Carry. If I'm going to Carry a heavier polymer gun it will be my HK45C:
45c_comp-tac1.jpg
 
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Conclusion and Thoughts on 9mm vs. 45ACP:

  1. It is my belief based on data from serious researchers that with FMJ, the 45-caliber automatic is more potent than the 9mm. That does not mean that I believe either to be anywhere near the top of the list for self-protection. I do not believe that "they all fall to hardball."
  2. I do tend to agree that the expanding defensive bullet should penetrate between about 12 and 14". This may be more than required for a straight on, unobstructed chest shot, but it better insures punching the vitals should an intermediate target like an arm get in the way. It would also likely be more effective if the shot was made from the side rather than the front or back.
  3. I am convinced that the size of the wound channel from an expanded .45 ACP bullet will be larger than that from the 9mm and this should make it more effective, but I have not seen a noticeable difference on animals as mentioned previously. I am equally convinced that gelatin results may or very well may not match what actually occurs in flesh-and-bone targets.
  4. Probably the most important factor in stopping power (regardless of caliber) remains placement. That this can be difficult to obtain in the life-and-death fight scenario doesn't change the necessity for it if we want the opponent to go down for physical rather than psychological reasons.
  5. With the best loads, I opine that .45 ACP is a better "man stopper" than 9mm with its best loads, but am not sure of by what margin.
  6. I do not believe that a 9mm loaded with the better loads is an inadequate defense gun and frequently tote one myself.
  7. I do not "trust" either the .45 ACP or the 9mm (or any other handgun caliber) to provide the elusive "one shot stop" unless the brain or central nervous system is destroyed.
  8. I am not convinced that the temporary cavity produced by handgun bullets is totally irrelevant, but I also have no idea of how it may actually contribute. I wish there would be more serious research in this area.
  9. Either of these calibers with any load may fail to provide the desired results even with a "good" hit. Either may require multiple "good" hits.
  10. Perhaps either caliber would provide fewer failures if we practiced as much as we worry about our caliber's stopping potential.
I believe that we will continue to see stunning successes and dismal failures with all commonly used defensive handgun calibers including the 9mm and .45 ACP.
An experienced old lawman once told me that a man can be the easiest or the hardest "critter" to put down and the problem is that you never know which you're getting. I think that maybe what he was trying to say is that while a man is an animal, wild animals are not men. If a man is shot and thinks about what has just happened, his human drive to survive may include stopping what he's doing or begging for help. A javelina or deer or bear, etc will not stop until it physically can do nothing else. On the other hand, if a shot man simply reverts to some primordial anger or rage (I'm not sure what to call it) and simply lets his animalistic side come out, he may very well be a most difficult opponent. For 200-lb. animals, we sometimes see even high-powered rifles fail to provide instant "stops." I do not know how to factor in the adrenaline dump that can occur when we're suddenly injured or realizing that we must fight to survive, but I do believe that all of the preceding can play a significant role in the area of stopping power.
 
They are MAGAZINES not CLIPS. Second, Glock Magazines are interchangeable among same caliber Glocks. You can put a full size magazine in a subcompact. Third, the pearce extender is an accessory I prefer on the Glock 26/27.

Haha! I was making fun of the use of the word CLIPS, instead of the proper non-amateur hour term MAGAZINE!

I carry the Glock 27 with the stock non-modified magazine for concealed carry. I use the Glock 23 high capacity magazine with the sleeve that wraps around the bottom, when just shooting for fun. I do have the 33 round magazine that looks pretty crazy sticking out of my Glock 17.

As far as the pearce extender goes, I do not use it for carry because I am concerned about the possibly of increasing the chance of a malfunction to occur due to modifying the magazine. This is my personal opinion, I would rather be safe than sorry.

I never really understood the purpose of all the crazy sights and lasers for weapons being used for concealed carry. Engagement with a bad guy is usually going to be extremely close, and you typically just point shoot at center mass until threat is eliminated.
 
Haha! I was making fun of the use of the word CLIPS, instead of the proper non-amateur hour term MAGAZINE!

I carry the Glock 27 with the stock non-modified magazine for concealed carry. I use the Glock 23 high capacity magazine with the sleeve that wraps around the bottom, when just shooting for fun. I do have the 33 round magazine that looks pretty crazy sticking out of my Glock 17.

As far as the pearce extender goes, I do not use it for carry because I am concerned about the possibly of increasing the chance of a malfunction to occur due to modifying the magazine. This is my personal opinion, I would rather be safe than sorry.

I never really understood the purpose of all the crazy sights and lasers for weapons being used for concealed carry. Engagement with a bad guy is usually going to be extremely close, and you typically just point shoot at center mass until threat is eliminated.


Did not realize SDN was populated with freaking English PhDs specializing in proper grammar. Clips is easier to type than magazine. When you have carpel tunnel syndrome yourself after bagging patients for two decades you might also take typing shortcuts.
 
Just went to a range. I thought I'd like the Glock 26, but I found having my hand hang off the bottom too wierd. Shot the 19 and liked it. I thought it was easy to stay on target for multiple quick shots. Maybe I'll try a .40 next time.
 
Just went to a range. I thought I'd like the Glock 26, but I found having my hand hang off the bottom too wierd. Shot the 19 and liked it. I thought it was easy to stay on target for multiple quick shots. Maybe I'll try a .40 next time.

Glock 26 is your Carry Gun. If you put on the Pearce extender it becomes more tolerable. Little Guns are for Concealment while a G19 is a midsize weapon.
 
Glock 26 is your Carry Gun. If you put on the Pearce extender it becomes more tolerable. Little Guns are for Concealment while a G19 is a midsize weapon.
Yeah I realize, based on the above discussion and the Glock website, that it's small to make it easier to conceal. I guess I thought you were giving up capacity and range more than grip comfort with the smaller 26/27. Maybe the Pearce extender would make the grip less awkward.
 
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Hey Blade what do you think of the Berreta Px4? I ve read that the rotating barrel cuts down on recoil considerably? Find this to be true in your experience? Awesome looking gun.. how does it compare to the glocks?

Yes,

The Storm has Minimal recoil in both 9mm and .40 calibers. The down side is the rotating barrel makes the gun less accurate than a Glock. I like the gun but not for bulls eye target shooting. The gun costs $450-$500 online and my wife really likes shooting it. A great beginner's weapon and one which allows the magazines to be used for the fancy, pistol caliber CX4 Storm carbine.
 
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Yes,

The Storm has Minimal recoil in both 9mm and .40 calibers. The down side is the rotating barrel makes the gun less accurate than a Glock. I like the gun but not for bulls eye target shooting. The gun costs $450-$500 online and my wife really likes shooting it. A great beginner's weapon and one which allows the magazines to be used for the fancy, pistol caliber CX4 Storm carbine.

Does it come in .45 caliber? Is it considerably less accurate?
 
I doubt any half decent pistol is going to be outshot by a novice shooter. If you can shoot a whole mag into one ragged hole at 10-15 yards, then maybe it'll start to come into play. I sure as hell can't.
 
I doubt any half decent pistol is going to be outshot by a novice shooter. If you can shoot a whole mag into one ragged hole at 10-15 yards, then maybe it'll start to come into play. I sure as hell can't.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4gsrJSl4ow

I'm not sure I understand your post. I like the PX4 Storm but IMHO, the rotating Barrel makes it harder to get a Bulls eye every time. It shoots very well and if a 2 inch variance at 15 yards is fine with you then buy the gun. My wife likes it and enjoys shooting it at the range. I prefer more accuracy when shooting targets.

It has MINIMAL recoil and is a pleasure to shoot from that perspective. Plus, it is extremely reliable in terms of FTE/FTF (jams).
 
Yeah I realize, based on the above discussion and the Glock website, that it's small to make it easier to conceal. I guess I thought you were giving up capacity and range more than grip comfort with the smaller 26/27. Maybe the Pearce extender would make the grip less awkward.

I like a pierce pg-2733 +2 extension when I'm wearing bulkier clothes and can absorb the extra grip length, as it is infinitely more comfortable to shoot than stock, when I need maximum concealment I switch to the GAP floorplate, which is much more easily described on their website,
http://www.concealablecontrol.com/
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4gsrJSl4ow

I'm not sure I understand your post. I like the PX4 Storm but IMHO, the rotating Barrel makes it harder to get a Bulls eye every time. It shoots very well and if a 2 inch variance at 15 yards is fine with you then buy the gun. My wife likes it and enjoys shooting it at the range. I prefer more accuracy when shooting targets.

It has MINIMAL recoil and is a pleasure to shoot from that perspective. Plus, it is extremely reliable in terms of FTE/FTF (jams).

I'm just saying, for a new shooter, 2 inches of variance from a rest at 15 yards is going to be negligible relative to the spread due to trigger jerk, flinching, etc., so if you're buying a half decent pistol and aren't an experienced shooter, I wouldn't sweat trying to find a pistol that'll shoot sub inch at 25 yards.
 
I'm just saying, for a new shooter, 2 inches of variance from a rest at 15 yards is going to be negligible relative to the spread due to trigger jerk, flinching, etc., so if you're buying a half decent pistol and aren't an experienced shooter, I wouldn't sweat trying to find a pistol that'll shoot sub inch at 25 yards.

And I'm saying out of my Arsenal of handguns/pistols (own so many they all can't fit in my safe any longer) the Beretta Storm is very reliable, easy to shoot, a favorite for novice shooters, inexpensive BUT not the most accurate handgun compared to many others. The Beretta 92FS/M9 is a more accurate gun and just as reliable (but has more recoil, heavier, costs more).
 
I don't understand where anything we're saying is in contradiction?
 
Did not realize SDN was populated with freaking English PhDs specializing in proper grammar. Clips is easier to type than magazine. When you have carpel tunnel syndrome yourself after bagging patients for two decades you might also take typing shortcuts.

Just giving you a hard time, would you expect anything less from a former Marine? Much respect for you though, both as a physician and a Naval officer.
 
I don't get FTE problems, but I do get FTF problems with certain ammo. It seems to really like 115gr critical defense, as the bullet is much more tapered and shorter than some other defensive ammo out there (124gr bonded rangers, my duty ammo, will not feed reliably in my PM9)

It should also be noted that all kahrs require a 200 round break in period.

If anyone is still reading this thread...

I shot a Kahr P9 and am really thinking of getting it. I liked the feel more than the Glock and S&W M&P that I shot. At 0.9" thick x4.5x5.8 and 15 oz it's about as small as I could go without it being awkward to grip. I think the height being a little greater than the Glock 26 makes for a better grip while the narrow width allows the P9 to be lighter and more concealable. I would like to compare it to a PM9/CM9 first. I'm suspect that the shorter height will make the PM9 not feel as good as the P9, but I'll check it out.
 
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If anyone is still reading this thread...

I shot a Kahr P9 and am really thinking of getting it. I liked the feel more than the Glock and S&W M&P that I shot. At 0.9" thick x4.5x5.8 and 15 oz it's about as small as I could go without it being awkward to grip. I think the height being a little greater than the Glock 26 makes for a better grip while the narrow width allows the P9 to be lighter and more concealable. I would like to compare it to a PM9/CM9 first. I'm suspect that the shorter height will make the PM9 not feel as good as the P9, but I'll check it out.

If it helps, aside from width, the pm9/cm9 are quite similar in dimensions to the glock 26 (again, aside from width)
 
If anyone is still reading this thread...

I shot a Kahr P9 and am really thinking of getting it. I liked the feel more than the Glock and S&W M&P that I shot. At 0.9" thick x4.5x5.8 and 15 oz it's about as small as I could go without it being awkward to grip. I think the height being a little greater than the Glock 26 makes for a better grip while the narrow width allows the P9 to be lighter and more concealable. I would like to compare it to a PM9/CM9 first. I'm suspect that the shorter height will make the PM9 not feel as good as the P9, but I'll check it out.

The Kahr P9 is fairly expensive for a polymer gun. How is reliability?
 
The Kahr P9 is fairly expensive for a polymer gun. How is reliability?

After the 200 round break in, and with decent ammo, they're fine. They do tend to only like to feed certain ammo, I find my pm9 likes 115gr critical defense but not 124gr bonded rangers..
 
After the 200 round break in, and with decent ammo, they're fine. They do tend to only like to feed certain ammo, I find my pm9 likes 115gr critical defense but not 124gr bonded rangers..

Ive never had a failure with my pm9 regardless of ammo..currently using winchester 147gr ra9t. Although now that fall is finally here I switched from pocket carry back to holster so its hkp30 time
 
Ive never had a failure with my pm9 regardless of ammo..currently using winchester 147gr ra9t. Although now that fall is finally here I switched from pocket carry back to holster so its hkp30 time

I figured I would be switching to my Glock 19 with the colder weather, but I find myself sticking to my Glock 26.. Further motivation for me to dump the 19 and get a 17 for my duty gun.. Maybe I'll do that today while I'm supposed to be writing a paper LOL!!
 


[FONT=trebuchet ms,arial,helvetica]The SIG P210, is, to quote noted gun collector Ian Hogg, "the best pistol in the world". Of course those of you who have forked out thousands for a heavily customised target pistol may disagree, but there is little doubt that the P210 is the highest quality pistol to ever leave a factory with the intention of equipping soldiers or police officers. .
 
The Kahr P9 is fairly expensive for a polymer gun. How is reliability?

Check out the CM9. It's a reduced price version of the PM9 that goes for about $450. The changes are not major IMO: conventional vs polygonal rifling, the slide has some cosmetic differences in machining and logo, the slide stop is injection molded vs machined, and 1 mag vs 2. I just took it out yesterday, and it shoots great at reasonable distances (<10 yds.). No failures in the 200 rd break in period. I didn't really notice that my pinky was hanging in the breeze. Recoil was insignificant with 115gr FMJ target rds.
 
Blade (or anybody else for that matter), any experience with the CZ P-07 Duty?
 
What is a better ammo for target practice; federals or Winchester white box. I think whinchesters are like 2 or 3 dollars more for a box of 50?

Best SD hollow points for glocks?
 
What is a better ammo for target practice; federals or Winchester white box. I think whinchesters are like 2 or 3 dollars more for a box of 50?

Best SD hollow points for glocks?

I really don't notice much difference at 15 yards. Perhaps, Federal is bit dirtier than the WWB.

As for best hollow points for Glocks it depends on the size of the Glock. Short barrel guns are different than standard barrels. There are many good hollow points because PRICE isn't the sticking point in sales.
 
What is a better ammo for target practice; federals or Winchester white box. I think whinchesters are like 2 or 3 dollars more for a box of 50?

Best SD hollow points for glocks?

I dig monarch 9mm for paper punching. Very reliable, super super cheap.
 
As far as I know, they don't make hydrashocks anymore, instead they have moved on to HST, a bonded round. I chose winchester bonded rangers, but they are supposed to be law enforcement only. It's not impossible to get as a civilian, but harder to come by.

Speer gold dot, federal hst, hornady critical defense, and Winchester bonded rangers, all great rounds that perform similarly.





roll your own

- pod

For practice, there is no better way to go. For self defense, i would advise against it.
 
roll your own

This is one of those rare instances when I actually disagree with you. It is satisfying to make your own ammo with your own hands. Someday I'm going to learn how to cast bullets too, just for the hell of it. But -


I roll my own rifle ammo because I can produce more accurate rounds at a fraction of the price of commercial match-grade ammo. The accuracy, moreso than the cost savings, are worth my time.

I have dies and components to load pistol ammo for range practice as a hedge against availability problems (wasn't long ago that .380 auto couldn't be found anywhere at any price). But I don't routinely load handgun ammo now that it's back on the shelf at Walmart, and cheap. It's not worth my time.

Maybe I just need a progressive press.

I do reload a small number of subsonics for goofing off with the cans.


NRAI2001 - my opinion, get whatever's cheapest for practice. Fed or WWB makes not a bit of difference. PMC bronze. Even the cheap steel-cased Russian crap like Wolf or Tula is fine. It's dirty ammo, and it smells like burning cats, but it's absolutely Just Fine for target shooting at short range.

Best solution - buy your ammo by the case, online. Excellent prices and service. Here too.
 
This is one of those rare instances when I actually disagree with you. It is satisfying to make your own ammo with your own hands. Someday I'm going to learn how to cast bullets too, just for the hell of it. But -


I roll my own rifle ammo because I can produce more accurate rounds at a fraction of the price of commercial match-grade ammo. The accuracy, moreso than the cost savings, are worth my time.

I have dies and components to load pistol ammo for range practice as a hedge against availability problems (wasn't long ago that .380 auto couldn't be found anywhere at any price). But I don't routinely load handgun ammo now that it's back on the shelf at Walmart, and cheap. It's not worth my time.

Maybe I just need a progressive press.

I do reload a small number of subsonics for goofing off with the cans.


NRAI2001 - my opinion, get whatever's cheapest for practice. Fed or WWB makes not a bit of difference. PMC bronze. Even the cheap steel-cased Russian crap like Wolf or Tula is fine. It's dirty ammo, and it smells like burning cats, but it's absolutely Just Fine for target shooting at short range.

Best solution - buy your ammo by the case, online. Excellent prices and service. Here too.

I buy ammo bulk. I don't bother making my own ammo. Not interested.
As for Tula or Wolf- no thanks. I'll spend the extra few dollars for better ammo.
 
As for Tula or Wolf- no thanks. I'll spend the extra few dollars for better ammo.

I don't buy it either. It's dirty and not very accurate. But it's certainly good enough for shooting at silhouette targets at self-defense distances. For people with budgets, it deserves a look.
 
I don't buy it either. It's dirty and not very accurate. But it's certainly good enough for shooting at silhouette targets at self-defense distances. For people with budgets, it deserves a look.

A box of 50 9mm fedrals are only $1.50 more than the tulammo.. Reviews of the ammo online claim tulammo damages your weapon?
 
A box of 50 9mm fedrals are only $1.50 more than the tulammo.. Reviews of the ammo online claim tulammo damages your weapon?

No, steel cased ammo is fine. Most Tula and Wolf is actually the same stuff, out of the same factories. Different label/importer. Tula tends to be a bit cheaper because Wolf has customer service and supposedly it's easier to get them to take care of customers if there's a problem.

All manufacturers have periodic recalls, and if you look hard enough, you can find stories and pictures of blow'd up weapons from faulty ammunition from every manufacturer.

Even Hornady sells steel cased training ammunition now. Steel cased ammo has a reputation for being hard on guns, but it's really not deserved. It's not high carbon super hard armor-plate steel; it's soft mild steel. Fear of extra wear on guns probably isn't warranted.

It used to be that the Russian steel cased ammo was coated with a laquer that got hot and gummy and tended to cause stuck cases, especially in AR-type guns, but for years now it's been polymer coated. If you switch back and forth between brass and steel cased ammo, you may wind up with a stuck case because the steel cased stuff tends to be dirty, it doesn't expand to seal the chamber as well as brass, and so the chamber gets more nasty more quickly. Follow up with a brass cartridge in that dirty chamber, you're more likely to get a stuck case.

If you have an expensive match <1 MOA rifle barrel, it makes no real sense to be shooting cheap 4+ MOA Russian import ammo out of it. (It makes no sense to be shooting brass cased Federal M193 out of it either.)

There's absolutely nothing wrong with steel cased ammunition. With Wolf/Tula you're getting cheaper, dirtier, less accurate ammunition. If you shoot twice per year, saving $1.50 on a box of handgun ammo is no big deal. If you're on a budget and shoot more though, $30 to $100 per case adds up.

It's just my opinion, but to me, insisting on shooting premium brass cased ammo out of Glocks at 7 yards isn't all that different from putting premium gas in a subcompact Hyundai used to commute to work.
 
Any recommendations for a first shotgun for clays in the same price range as but superior to the mossberg 930? Thinking this is going to be a present to myself toward the end of the semester
 
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