Status
Not open for further replies.

Poety

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 22, 2004
2,227
1
46
Bible Belt and loving it
Status
Resident [Any Field]
Hi, ok watching dateline:

Woman in mid 20's maybe, 5 kids, telling eveyrone in her family, online and friends she has cancer for more than year, milks them all for more than 250K, was caught because she started having other symptoms like "acute MI" on top of the chemo and people got suspicious.

So clearly shes a sociopath, but husband thought she had some underlying emotional disturbance as well - my vote is antisocial since she lacks remorse..

thoughts?
 

whopper

Former jolly good fellow
15+ Year Member
Feb 8, 2004
6,988
1,820
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Cute baby poety--is she yours?

Its clearly malingering. Malingerers often have AxisII Cluster B traits if not an actual cluster B diagnosis.

I hate saying this but malingerers IMHO should be prosecuted if they commit actions that cause harm-in this case fraud. Unfortunately hardly any doc I know does it (except for 2).
 

Anuwolf

Membership Revoked
Removed
10+ Year Member
May 4, 2006
208
0
36
Hollywood, Florida USA
Status
Non-Student
I dont think shes suffering from any mental problems other then shes a heartless bitch thats trying to get free money from her family and friends and anybody else that she scammed off of.

She belongs inside of a prison, not inside of a mental hospital.
 
About the Ads

whopper

Former jolly good fellow
15+ Year Member
Feb 8, 2004
6,988
1,820
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
Hate saying it but a significant amount of patients at least in my neck of the woods are malingerers attempting some sort of fraud.

Problem is that they get into the hospital--the doc simply discharges them, even gives them an Axis I diagnosis of depression or psychosis for billing purposes. Then when the patient comes back to the hospital-there's a nice document stating the patient has a valid Axis I diagnosis and the fraud resumes.

I can understand a doctor giving the patient the benefit of the doubt the first few times but after so many its really annoying.
 
OP
Poety

Poety

10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Dec 22, 2004
2,227
1
46
Bible Belt and loving it
Status
Resident [Any Field]
whopper said:
Cute baby poety--is she yours?

Its clearly malingering. Malingerers often have AxisII Cluster B traits if not an actual cluster B diagnosis.

I hate saying this but malingerers IMHO should be prosecuted if they commit actions that cause harm-in this case fraud. Unfortunately hardly any doc I know does it (except for 2).

Can you be a malingerer if you don't interact with the medical community and you just lie about it to everyone? I don't know why I thought you had to attempt to gain something by actually going to the hospital, but I did, I'll look that up later. Anyway, Im not convinced of malingering in the sense that she even lied to her 5 kids, theres something else going on here - I still say full blown antisocial which although not common in women, does occur.

Its all the lying thats getting me, and the no regard for anyone else, etc etc. Imagine being her kid and thinking your mom is dying for 18 months, thats just horrible.

I agree with Anuwolf on this one, I hope the FBI investigation leads to jailtime.
 

Doctor Bagel

so cheap and juicy
Moderator Emeritus
15+ Year Member
Sep 26, 2002
10,919
1,122
from the ministry of information
Status
Attending Physician
Yeah, I saw that, too. I wasn't paying close attention, but have her friends at least filed a civil suit against her? If only she had defrauded an insurance company, then she would be prosecuted because that makes them mad. :) Unfortunately, it seemed like most of the people we studied in our fraud training (worked in disability insurance) did not do jail time, though. We did study a case where this woman faked having cancer for about ten years for disability benefits because she wanted to stay at home with her kids. She didn't mess with her family, though, because they had no clue what she was doing so it's not like they thought mommy was going to die. Still wrong, but the Dateline woman sounds a little sicker

So stupid question -- what's the different between sociopathy and being antisocial? My psychopathology book clumped them together.
 

RustNeverSleeps

Walker, Texas Ranger
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Aug 12, 2004
331
0
Status
Medical Student
Poety said:
Can you be a malingerer if you don't interact with the medical community and you just lie about it to everyone? I don't know why I thought you had to attempt to gain something by actually going to the hospital, but I did, I'll look that up later. Anyway, Im not convinced of malingering in the sense that she even lied to her 5 kids, theres something else going on here - I still say full blown antisocial which although not common in women, does occur.

Its all the lying thats getting me, and the no regard for anyone else, etc etc. Imagine being her kid and thinking your mom is dying for 18 months, thats just horrible.

I agree with Anuwolf on this one, I hope the FBI investigation leads to jailtime.
This is an interesting question. I did some quick research on malingering, and it seems like the definition is "feigning illness or disability to obtain secondary gain." The nature of the secondary gain (i.e. drug-seeking or needing a doctor's note to miss work) and/or the need for proof of the disability may often lead to the malingerer's interacting with the medical field, but I don't think it's a requirement. For instance, someone in prison who fakes being sick to get out of his cell, avoid going to court, etc. is, at least in my opinion, malingering whether or not he is seen by a doctor -- he is pretending to be sick for secondary gain.

As for the lying, every malingerer lies to at least some extent, and maybe the "best" ones lie to everyone in order to reduce the risks of being caught.

Finally, malingering and antisocial behavior are not mutually exclusive, so I don't think it necessarily has to be one or the other with this woman. DSM-IV-TR advises to strongly suspect malingering in the presence of ASPD. She could be antisocial, which is why she is so adept at lying, and malingering due to her antisocial tendencies (exploiting the kindness of others - what a great way to make a buck).
 

Psyclops

1K Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,261
3
Status
Other Health Professions Student
Those who spend alot of time working with these types of individuals differentiate between "antisocial" and "psychopathy" (pronounced: psych-ahh-pathy, not psych-oh-pathy). I can't tell you the diference but I know that they are some subtle differneces, they may only be quantitative and not qualitative. The term sociopathy doesn't get used much more. And as you know the DSM only recognizes antisocial PD, but then again that's the DSM for you, which despite it's name has limited bearing on how researchers and theoreticians in the field conceptualize these constructs.
 

PublicHealth

Membership Revoked
Removed
15+ Year Member
Mar 18, 2003
2,271
6
Visit site
Status
Psyclops said:
Those who spend alot of time working with these types of individuals differentiate between "antisocial" and "psychopathy" (pronounced: psych-ahh-pathy, not psych-oh-pathy). I can't tell you the diference but I know that they are some subtle differneces, they may only be quantitative and not qualitative. The term sociopathy doesn't get used much more. And as you know the DSM only recognizes antisocial PD, but then again that's the DSM for you, which despite it's name has limited bearing on how researchers and theoreticians in the field conceptualize these constructs.
And there's no pill to treat it!
 

Doctor Bagel

so cheap and juicy
Moderator Emeritus
15+ Year Member
Sep 26, 2002
10,919
1,122
from the ministry of information
Status
Attending Physician
Psyclops said:
Those who spend alot of time working with these types of individuals differentiate between "antisocial" and "psychopathy" (pronounced: psych-ahh-pathy, not psych-oh-pathy). I can't tell you the diference but I know that they are some subtle differneces, they may only be quantitative and not qualitative. The term sociopathy doesn't get used much more. And as you know the DSM only recognizes antisocial PD, but then again that's the DSM for you, which despite it's name has limited bearing on how researchers and theoreticians in the field conceptualize these constructs.
Thanks -- I guess that explains why my book lumped them together. :)

Talking about other TV shows and antisocial pd, I was watching an episode of Intervention (a show on A&E where they have interventions for addicts), and one of the guys was a called a rageoholic (he was also addicted to crack cocaine -- such a winner). In his interview, he said he couldn't connect with anyone and really didn't care about anything, and he was a class a a$$hole. He went around yelling at people and beating people up. His brother was convinced that he'd kill him eventually, and his father's house was full of marks from where the guy had punched in the wall or stabbed the cabinets. It seems like he clearly has antisocial pd, but I'm suspicious of that rageoholic thing. The sad/ironic thing is that he went to a treatment center for rageoholics and was kicked out for threatening other patients. Isn't that what you would expect all rageoholics to do? :rolleyes:
 

50960

Guest
10+ Year Member
Aug 20, 2004
1,628
4
49
CO
Status
Have to say I agree with Anuwolf here...... And I say psy-ko-pathy!!

;)
 

Psyclops

1K Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,261
3
Status
Other Health Professions Student
psisci said:
Have to say I agree with Anuwolf here...... And I say psy-ko-pathy!!

;)

Stranger things have happened....
 

Anasazi23

Your Digital Ruler
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 19, 2003
3,505
27
The innocent shall suffer...big time
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
exlawgrrl said:
Thanks -- I guess that explains why my book lumped them together. :)

Talking about other TV shows and antisocial pd, I was watching an episode of Intervention (a show on A&E where they have interventions for addicts), and one of the guys was a called a rageoholic (he was also addicted to crack cocaine -- such a winner). In his interview, he said he couldn't connect with anyone and really didn't care about anything, and he was a class a a$$hole. He went around yelling at people and beating people up. His brother was convinced that he'd kill him eventually, and his father's house was full of marks from where the guy had punched in the wall or stabbed the cabinets. It seems like he clearly has antisocial pd, but I'm suspicious of that rageoholic thing. The sad/ironic thing is that he went to a treatment center for rageoholics and was kicked out for threatening other patients. Isn't that what you would expect all rageoholics to do? :rolleyes:
I saw that guy on TV also. I wanted to write him a script for VPA so bad...on a loading dose. He surely would have benefitted.
 
About the Ads

Luba Licious

Member
10+ Year Member
Feb 18, 2006
103
1
Walnut Log Community College
Status
Academic Administration
Anasazi23 said:
I saw that guy on TV also. I wanted to write him a script for VPA so bad...on a loading dose. He surely would have benefitted.

It's pretty sad when your own father PREFERS it when you're on crack cocaine because it makes you a nicer person. Does that guy have any hope at all of not winding up doing a long prison term? I saw he was in jail for assaulting his girlfriend, but how do you deal with a person like that? How common is it? That dude just tripped me out.
 

assos

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 30, 2006
10
0
Status
Attending Physician
Anuwolf said:
I dont think shes suffering from any mental problems other then shes a heartless bitch thats trying to get free money from her family and friends and anybody else that she scammed off of.
qft

ofcourse your average psychiatrist has to see diagnosable pathology everywhere... fscking pathetic.
 

Anasazi23

Your Digital Ruler
Moderator Emeritus
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Feb 19, 2003
3,505
27
The innocent shall suffer...big time
Visit site
Status
Attending Physician
assos said:
qft

ofcourse your average psychiatrist has to see diagnosable pathology everywhere... fscking pathetic.
The above poster isn't a psychiatrist, genius. Improve your discourse to a professional level, since it's clear you're completely ignorant in the dealings of tact and medical specialties.
 

Psyclops

1K Member
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Feb 22, 2006
1,261
3
Status
Other Health Professions Student
ASSOS? Is that the name of a "crappy operating system"? You make less sense than the person you are quoting.
 

assos

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 30, 2006
10
0
Status
Attending Physician
Anasazi23 said:
The above poster isn't a psychiatrist (...)
i said he is?

Anasazi23 said:
(...) genius (...)
my iq = 131, so i dont qualify. if this ever develops into a problem for me, you think we can... talk about it?

Anasazi23 said:
Improve your discourse to a professional level, since it's clear you're completely ignorant in the dealings of tact and medical specialties.
kind of touchy, arent you? what is it that bothers you the most about yourself and makes you so angry?
 

assos

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 30, 2006
10
0
Status
Attending Physician
Psyclops said:
ASSOS? Is that the name of a "crappy operating system"? You make less sense than the person you are quoting.
*yaaaawn*

youre boring, unoriginal, uninspiring, and you purchased your sense of humor at wall-mart for $9.99.
 

Doc Samson

gamma irradiated
10+ Year Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,963
10
Not Boston anymore
Status
Attending Physician
assos said:
qft

ofcourse your average psychiatrist has to see diagnosable pathology everywhere... fscking pathetic.
Pathology is everywhere, that doesn't mean that we should normalize it. Just because the average American is obese, should we stop diagnosing/treating it? I would hope the answer is "no", and the same applies here... a dx of antisocial personality in no way excuses bad behavior, but it does provide a framework for predicting prognosis. No regrets now = no regrets the next time = lock 'em up.

BTW, isn't knowing your IQ off the top of your head one of the criteria for NPD?
 
P

Pterion

Psyclops said:
Those who spend alot of time working with these types of individuals differentiate between "antisocial" and "psychopathy" (pronounced: psych-ahh-pathy, not psych-oh-pathy). I can't tell you the diference but I know that they are some subtle differneces, they may only be quantitative and not qualitative. The term sociopathy doesn't get used much more. And as you know the DSM only recognizes antisocial PD, but then again that's the DSM for you, which despite it's name has limited bearing on how researchers and theoreticians in the field conceptualize these constructs.
True, all of it.

Psychopathy is considered by some and extreme form of antisocial PD, which has become a garbage pail term for anyone with traits you don't like but doesn't fit Borderline PD. Robert Hare has written ad infinitum on psychopathy, created an assessment for its diagnosis. It is largely a quantitative difference, as Psyclops says. It also remains outside the acceptance of the DSM diagnostically, though is very useful in a forensic setting. Sociopaths (ASP) are more manageable than psychopaths. And despite the Hollywood image, psychopaths are not all highly intelligent, strategically sophisticated worldbeaters.

I remember hearing that up to 80% of the incarcerated population could qualify for the diagnosis of ASP. Of those, 15% or less could further meet Hare's criteria for psychopathy.

That's all I've got. Thankfully I had little dealings with them.
 

assos

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 30, 2006
10
0
Status
Attending Physician
@Doc Samson: i think i can sum it all up with a single quote:
Doc Samson said:
BTW, isn't knowing your IQ off the top of your head one of the criteria for NPD?
@Anasazi23:
Anasazi23 said:
And your social IQ is about a 20.
how did you assess my social iq based on my previous posts?
Anasazi23 said:
You're IQ is about average around here.
you keep a track record? just dont let Doc Samson know...

and get your spelling right. ahhh, the irony...

Anasazi23 said:
Move along.
think i will, before i lose my patience.
 

psychmom1

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Jul 13, 2006
29
0
USA!!!!!
Status
Pre-Medical
assos said:
@Doc Samson: i think i can sum it all up with a single quote:


@Anasazi23:
how did you assess my social iq based on my previous posts?
you keep a track record? just dont let Doc Samson know...

and get your spelling right. ahhh, the irony...

think i will, before i lose my patience.

Ok Ok,,, now what you want to do is take quite a few slow deep breaths and just relax. Yeah, that's it, there you go, take er' easy, ahhhhh. Good job!Now, do you feel less angry and do you like yourself a little more? It's OK if you do, because,,, you are good enough, you are smart enough, and gosh darn it,,,, people like you!!!!!!!! ;) Just remember your happy place!!!!!!
 

luft

PGY-3!!!
10+ Year Member
5+ Year Member
Jun 5, 2006
83
0
Status
Attending Physician
YAAAYYY! I'M A TROLL AND YOU GUYS ARE ALL STUPID! YAAYYY! Err...um...I mean...yeah, you guys are pathetic and my IQ is like 131 so I don't qualify as a genius. You guys are gramatic morons. And you are all stupid. Like stupid hamsters. Mommy, why don't you love me? All I wanted was for you to love and accept me. *sniff* Why doesn't anybody like me? *sniff sniff* Why do you make me write inflamatory messages all the time daddy? Why can't you just love me the way I am... *whimper* Clap if you believe in fairies!
 

Doc Samson

gamma irradiated
10+ Year Member
Dec 2, 2005
1,963
10
Not Boston anymore
Status
Attending Physician
luft said:
YAAAYYY! I'M A TROLL AND YOU GUYS ARE ALL STUPID! YAAYYY! Err...um...I mean...yeah, you guys are pathetic and my IQ is like 131 so I don't qualify as a genius. You guys are gramatic morons. And you are all stupid. Like stupid hamsters. Mommy, why don't you love me? All I wanted was for you to love and accept me. *sniff* Why doesn't anybody like me? *sniff sniff* Why do you make me write inflamatory messages all the time daddy? Why can't you just love me the way I am... *whimper* Clap if you believe in fairies!
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
 

Doctor Bagel

so cheap and juicy
Moderator Emeritus
15+ Year Member
Sep 26, 2002
10,919
1,122
from the ministry of information
Status
Attending Physician
Luba Licious said:
It's pretty sad when your own father PREFERS it when you're on crack cocaine because it makes you a nicer person. Does that guy have any hope at all of not winding up doing a long prison term? I saw he was in jail for assaulting his girlfriend, but how do you deal with a person like that? How common is it? That dude just tripped me out.
Exactly, and yeah, that guy freaked me out, too. He's one of those people who you're really happy you don't have to deal with. From the show, it seemed like his prospects were pretty dire with the getting kicked out of the rehab and then assault thing. You know, I still think it's irritating that the rehab place took him in knowing what he's like and then kicked him out almost immediately.
 

assos

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 30, 2006
10
0
Status
Attending Physician
hehe. carry on people. i may be able to pull off a phd off of this one.

@luft: in scadinavian, luft=air. you must represent CO2. suffocatingly boring.
 

psychmom1

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
Jul 13, 2006
29
0
USA!!!!!
Status
Pre-Medical
assos said:
hehe. carry on people. i may be able to pull off a phd off of this one.

@luft: in scadinavian, luft=air. you must represent CO2. suffocatingly boring.



Ahhhhh, that explains it!!!! ;)
 

assos

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
7+ Year Member
Jul 30, 2006
10
0
Status
Attending Physician
psychmom1 said:
[/B]


Ahhhhh, that explains it!!!! ;)
kiddo, this is the 3. time you reply with a noncontributory post.

give it a rest. youre wasting hd space. (just google "hd", darling)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
About the Ads