Whats the worst snub by statistics you have heard of?

[bodonid]

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[Maxprime]

There is no good reason to avoid applying to your state schools. $hit happens, you have to plan accordingly. If you never visit the school, you could be missing out on going a place you'd love (possibly for free). Also, state school applications are generally short & simple.

 

[fisko82]

U Michigan is not a mid-tier.

lol I got a chuckle from that as well. Evidently, UMich has become mid-tier on SDN. I'm sure next year we'll have posters suggesting less-competitive students apply to the big five: SGU, AUC, ROSS, SABA, and UMich.

 

[Rotinaj]

Every year there are applicants with amazing statistics that get rejected from every school they apply to. Just curious what some of the worst cases you guys have heard of?

I heard of a 4.0 35 that was turned down because he was an arrogant jerk at KU Med, however it could just be a story our pre-med advisor generated to send a message.

 

[Law2Doc]

I heard of a 4.0 35 that was turned down because he was an arrogant jerk at KU Med, however it could just be a story our pre-med advisor generated to send a message.

I've met someone with even higher stats than that who was actually quite nice but came off as too one dimensional.

 

[nevercold]

I've met someone with even higher stats than that who was actually quite nice but came off as too one dimensional.

The common complaint people have about this "well-rounded" standard is that you have to focus so much on one thing (medicine) in medical school. But,

1) Med schools want people who can handle the medicine well enough to be able to do other things

AND

2) People who aren't more than their studies make below average physicians. One-dimensional people fail to effectively relate to patients as well as multi-dimensional people.

 

[Mobius1985]

From a year ago, I remember Szhao, who had a GPA of 3.92 and MCAT of 34. His MDApps is at http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=7055 and he didn't get in anywhere. He had 1300 posts on SDN and then gave up. He had virtually no clinical experience.

 

[ADeadLois]

From a year ago, I remember Szhao, who had a GPA of 3.92 and MCAT of 34. His MDApps is at http://mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=7055 and he didn't get in anywhere. He had 1300 posts on SDN and then gave up. He had virtually no clinical experience.

He also did not apply very broadly.

 

[metalgearHMN]

GPA 4.0, 40 MCAT neurobiology major w/ honors thesis

Didn't get in ANYWHERE.

My premed advisor told us about him at the beginning of the year, to show you have to pick schools that fit you, and be more than just numbers. The guy in question only applied to Hopkins, Stanford etc etc.

 

[patzan]

She ended up getting in off the waitlist at Vanderbilt fairly late in the season, but this was it for a while - 42 and a 4.0 - http://www.mdapplicants.com/viewprofile.php?id=2081

She used to post here, but I can't remember her SN.

Wiggy73. She gave her valedictory address and, when speaking to the chancellor about her future plans, she told him her story - that she hadn't been accepted anywhere. He was shocked and very soon after that, she got an acceptance call.

Oddly timely to this discussion, this person was dismissed from Vanderbilt just in the last few weeks, half way through 3rd year. I don't know the details.

 

[Raoul9]

You are right though, nothing predicts how you do in med school.

Interestingly, this is not true:

Validity of the Medical College Admission Test for Predicting Medical School Performance. Academic Medicine. 80(10):910-917, October 2005. Julian, Ellen R. PhD . http://www.academicmedicine.org/pt/re/acmed/abstract.00001888-200510000-00010.htm;jsessionid=HGFJlT2mQTLzXbVChFH9QGBTDxz4Drd04G0gLJNZyFq3ZTPTJdRx!-667243907!181195629!8091!-1

Abstract:
Purpose: ...
Method: This study followed two cohorts from entrance to medical school through residency. Students from 14 medical schools' 1992 and 1993 entering classes provided data for predicting medical school grades and academic difficulty/distinction, while their peers from all of the U.S. medical schools were used to predict performance on USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. Regression analyses assessed the predictive power of combinations of uGPAs, MCAT scores, and undergraduate-institution selectivity.
Results: Grades were best predicted by a combination of MCAT scores and uGPAs, with MCAT scores providing a substantial increment over uGPAs. MCAT scores were better predictors of USMLE Step scores than were uGPAs, and the combination did little better than MCAT scores alone. The probability of experiencing academic difficulty or distinction tended to vary with MCAT scores. MCAT scores were strong predictors of scores for all three Step examinations, particularly Step 1.
Conclusions: MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school-specific handicaps of uGPAs.

Interesting study, and a conclusion that doesn't seem widely known (or is at least not widely discussed) on SDN, where there be trolls who'd love to riff on this...

 

[45408]

Wiggy73. She gave her valedictory address and, when speaking to the chancellor about her future plans, she told him her story - that she hadn't been accepted anywhere. He was shocked and very soon after that, she got an acceptance call.

Oddly timely to this discussion, this person was dismissed from Vanderbilt just in the last few weeks, half way through 3rd year. I don't know the details.

Wait, Wiggy was dismissed from Vandy? Sorry to hear that...

 

[panther42]

Interestingly, this is not true:

Validity of the Medical College Admission Test for Predicting Medical School Performance. Academic Medicine. 80(10):910-917, October 2005. Julian, Ellen R. PhD . http://www.academicmedicine.org/pt/re/acmed/abstract.00001888-200510000-00010.htm;jsessionid=HGFJlT2mQTLzXbVChFH9QGBTDxz4Drd04G0gLJNZyFq3ZTPTJdRx!-667243907!181195629!8091!-1

Abstract:
Purpose: ...
Method: This study followed two cohorts from entrance to medical school through residency. Students from 14 medical schools' 1992 and 1993 entering classes provided data for predicting medical school grades and academic difficulty/distinction, while their peers from all of the U.S. medical schools were used to predict performance on USMLE Steps 1, 2, and 3. Regression analyses assessed the predictive power of combinations of uGPAs, MCAT scores, and undergraduate-institution selectivity.
Results: Grades were best predicted by a combination of MCAT scores and uGPAs, with MCAT scores providing a substantial increment over uGPAs. MCAT scores were better predictors of USMLE Step scores than were uGPAs, and the combination did little better than MCAT scores alone. The probability of experiencing academic difficulty or distinction tended to vary with MCAT scores. MCAT scores were strong predictors of scores for all three Step examinations, particularly Step 1.
Conclusions: MCAT scores almost double the proportion of variance in medical school grades explained by uGPAs, and essentially replace the need for uGPAs in their impressive prediction of Step scores. The MCAT performs well as an indicator of academic preparation for medical school, independent of the school-specific handicaps of uGPAs.

Interesting study, and a conclusion that doesn't seem widely known (or is at least not widely discussed) on SDN, where there be trolls who'd love to riff on this...

wow, a standardized test predicts how well you will do on another standardized test...

 

[F12]

Friend of a friend: 42 MCAT, 3.9 GPA, almost no extracurriculars. Rejected from all schools two cycles in a row.

 

[Chuckwalla]

Friend of a friend: 42 MCAT, 3.9 GPA, almost no extracurriculars. Rejected from all schools two cycles in a row.

Someone intelligent enough to get numbers that high did not figure out that they needed ECs? Especially after the first cycle?

 

[DocWalken]

Everyone on here keeps talking about bad LORs being a reason for rejection, but don't most pre-med advisors screen for that sort of thing? I know my school's advisor says they will send which ones they think are the best. I guess if they're all bad, they will have to send some to meet the number required by schools...

For the med students on this thread: How often is it that you see bad LORs?

Also, all of these people getting rejected everywhere applied to a pretty limited range of schools.

I read one med student's blog who said that he automatically will be less accepting of a student with an enormous MCAT score and that it's a challenge for them to convince him that they actually are a normal person. (I vote the new SDN dream score not to be 40+, but ~34 instead..who's with me?)

 

[riceman04]

wtf does that mean? I mean, a 28 MCAT (or lower) can be a big deal. Especially if one of the numbers is below a 9.

There's got to be a reason for all of these. Not applying broadly enough, applying late (i.e. complete as early as September), criminal record or institutional action record, terrible personal statements, bad recs...

honestly if you're one of these people and you don't have something obvious like a criminal record or IA, I'd hire a consultant for your next round of apps so you can get an honest look at your application.

Wow (refering to the bolded words)!!!!!!

Would you really!
Made of $$$$$ maybe...or you are obviously not struggling.
Can I be you for a day?LOL

 

[riceman04]

Someone intelligent enough to get numbers that high did not figure out that they needed ECs? Especially after the first cycle?

you'd be surprised!

 

[Jolie South]

Everyone on here keeps talking about bad LORs being a reason for rejection, but don't most pre-med advisors screen for that sort of thing? I know my school's advisor says they will send which ones they think are the best. I guess if they're all bad, they will have to send some to meet the number required by schools...

For the med students on this thread: How often is it that you see bad LORs?

Also, all of these people getting rejected everywhere applied to a pretty limited range of schools.

I read one med student's blog who said that he automatically will be less accepting of a student with an enormous MCAT score and that it's a challenge for them to convince him that they actually are a normal person. (I vote the new SDN dream score not to be 40+, but ~34 instead..who's with me?)

not every school has a pre-med advisor that compiles a committee letter.

and not everyone is currently taking courses to have access to an advisor.

 

[Vihsadas]

There's people with good numbers that get rejected every year. MDapps is riddled with anecdotal evidence on that point. Hey, **** happens for one reason or another. Roll with it, and fix what was wrong the first time...

 

[LovelyMD]

Everyone on here keeps talking about bad LORs being a reason for rejection, but don't most pre-med advisors screen for that sort of thing? I know my school's advisor says they will send which ones they think are the best. I guess if they're all bad, they will have to send some to meet the number required by schools...

My pre-med committee doesn't pick and choose which letters to send. Every letter of recommendation that gets sent to them is forwarded to med schools in its entirety.

 

[xiaoyi666]

Something has to be wrong with your app....you sound like you lived in the library...most schools want to see something else besides numbers...they don't want library hermits!

Not me.

 

[xiaoyi666]

I don't want to call them out, but there's another poster on here with a 3.3 in engineering at a good school and a 40 on the MCAT - no interviews yet. I think it's absurd.

xiaoyi666 - why does your MDApps profile have you with a 3.50 overall and a 3.17 BCPM instead of a "~3.9 Overall / 4.0 BCPM"?

Just curious what some of the worst cases you guys have heard of?

an acquaintance in my school. once again, not me.

 

[Rotinaj]

There's people with good numbers that get rejected every year. MDapps is riddled with anecdotal evidence on that point. Hey, **** happens for one reason or another. Roll with it, and fix what was wrong the first time...

I wouldn't want to be a member of a club that wouldn't have me as a member.

Wait a second... scratch that.

If I'm rejected because I don't have enough experience or my numbers are up to snuff, then so be it, but I'm surprised to hear the rare horror stories of people being rejected based on simply not nodding heads with the adcoms.

My attitude towards the matter is this: if a medical admissions comittee doesn't agree with what I consider to be pragmatic and balanced then I don't want to attend that school. I refuse to compromise my self-respect and philosophy just so that I can have a title behind my name. If a medical school thinks that international volunteering is automatically better than local volunteering, if they think that community college credits are worthless, if they actually believe that sacrifice is the act of giving something for nothing, if they actually believe that rational people make "sacrifices" rather than choices, if they try and say that being a doctor means your job is to "help people" rather than to diagnose and cure people, etc... I don't want to attend somewhere that represents itself with a banner of smarmy falsities and unrealistic ideals.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

wow, a standardized test predicts how well you will do on another standardized test...

Exactly my point. You can show me any study in the world, but it would mean crap to me. There are people in my class with mediocre MCAT scores that blew away Step 1, and vise versa.... people that spanked the MCAT that have flunked out. Wheres the study for those statistics? I know my class isn't the only place it's happening.

 

[seraph524]

Rejected by MSU post-interview.

 

[Drogba]

wow, a standardized test predicts how well you will do on another standardized test...

Wow... only possibly the most important standardized test you will ever take in your life .

Exactly my point. You can show me any study in the world, but it would mean crap to me. There are people in my class with mediocre MCAT scores that blew away Step 1, and vise versa.... people that spanked the MCAT that have flunked out. Wheres the study for those statistics? I know my class isn't the only place it's happening.

In the statistically insignificant pile of rejected papers?

Statistics are not Miss Cleo and they shouldnt be treated that way. Suggesting they are is just a misunderstanding of what statistics can tell us.

 

[MilkmanAl]

Rejected by MSU post-interview.

I'm sure they figured (knew) they were low on your list of places to attend.

 

[RapplixGmed]

Wait, Wiggy was dismissed from Vandy? Sorry to hear that...

How does one get dismissed from a med school? Esp in the 3rd year? I was under the impression that a school wanted to push all of their students to pass unless he/she become a criminal or had an honor violation.

 

[bozz]

Exactly my point. You can show me any study in the world, but it would mean crap to me. There are people in my class with mediocre MCAT scores that blew away Step 1, and vise versa.... people that spanked the MCAT that have flunked out. Wheres the study for those statistics? I know my class isn't the only place it's happening.

Most people will probably fall within the general trend though wouldn't you think? Someone disciplined enough to do well on a standardized test will probably do well on another standardized test. Someone who did well on the MCAT is more likely to do well on the Step I than someone who did not do well on the MCAT.

we can refer to exceptions all the time to make ourselves feel better: Aha! that guy with a 43 MCAT could potentially get owned on his Step 1s! (which is what most people on here seem to be doing)

The good thing though is .. these tests aren't IQ tests and don't depend on "intelligence" ... so people really can get from the bottom to the top

But in the end, all that matters is our own performance .. I try not to compare

 

[Vihsadas]

How does one get dismissed from a med school? Esp in the 3rd year? I was under the impression that a school wanted to push all of their students to pass unless he/she become a criminal or had an honor violation.

It's happened before. There are all sorts of stories, who knows how true they are. I heard a story of a guy that was dismissed from 3rd year med because he gloved up to do a gyno exam and said "Alright. Giddiyup." You basically just failed professionalism right there...very bad taste. I think he was instantly dismissed.

 

[Iquitos]

Everyone on here keeps talking about bad LORs being a reason for rejection, but don't most pre-med advisors screen for that sort of thing? I know my school's advisor says they will send which ones they think are the best. I guess if they're all bad, they will have to send some to meet the number required by schools...

For the med students on this thread: How often is it that you see bad LORs?

I interviewed a girl who had a letter in her file with the name of a different girl on it.

 

[skyeblue0610]

I try not to think of it just as numbers. I just think "wow, what were they saying in the interview, what was their personality and what exactly did those letters say" When it's a numbers snub, something has to be deeply off in either personality, the interview and how they came across, what they said, and LORs

 

[Despina]

I would like to apply next year but I'm already going to be a year out of college after this cycle. I feel like I need to get my life started. I dunno, I'm not 100% going to the carib, but I'm definitely considering it.

Seriously....you're 22! Go live a little!

 

[scarletgirl777]

I interviewed a girl who had a letter in her file with the name of a different girl on it.

OMG that's not even funny! That happened to one of my friends in high school when she was applying to college and she's convinced that's the reason she didn't get into Penn.

 

[RapplixGmed]

I interviewed a girl who had a letter in her file with the name of a different girl on it.

hahha was it completely different?

I went by one name in HS and decided to use a different name in college. One is my first name and one is my middle name. 5 of my LOR will use my new name but 1 will use the old one. Hopefully the committee will give it more than glance before they cry foul.

 

[scowdeva]

In regards to having a letter with the wrong name on it...how can you automatically condemn an applicant for this? I go to a huge undergrad, and the profs that are friendly and that are willing to write letters are few and far between. I know for a fact that one prof told me she writes about 60 a year (why I didn't ask her for one). With sending this many off, it wouldn't surprise me if every once in a while the wrong cover sheet got put with the wrong letter. Since we waive our right to see them, how would this ever be caught? That would just be sucky coincidence, but I'm sure it happens. Hope it didn't happen to me...

I'm wondering if I had a bad letter in the bunch due to the outcome of interviews. I've gotten good interview feedback, but I haven't gotten the best results. I badly want to see my letters, but they expire this month with Interfolio so I probably never will.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

Wow... only possibly the most important standardized test you will ever take in your life .



In the statistically insignificant pile of rejected papers?

Statistics are not Miss Cleo and they shouldnt be treated that way. Suggesting they are is just a misunderstanding of what statistics can tell us.

I should have wrote a few extra sentences so the pre-med vultures wouldn't jump all over my comment and lecture me about the value of statistics as if I was born in some barn last night. Of course studies and statistics are important. No one is suggesting any study should be treated like a "miss cleo" myth. All I am saying is that I personally don't agree with the whole idea of standardized tests when such a large individual component can determine the outcome. It just bothers me, that's all.

Most people will probably fall within the general trend though wouldn't you think? Someone disciplined enough to do well on a standardized test will probably do well on another standardized test. Someone who did well on the MCAT is more likely to do well on the Step I than someone who did not do well on the MCAT.

we can refer to exceptions all the time to make ourselves feel better: Aha! that guy with a 43 MCAT could potentially get owned on his Step 1s! (which is what most people on here seem to be doing)

The good thing though is .. these tests aren't IQ tests and don't depend on "intelligence" ... so people really can get from the bottom to the top

But in the end, all that matters is our own performance .. I try not to compare

I do agree that most people would fall into the trend, it's the one's that don't that irritate me. I.e. the really smart person that can't take a standardized test to save their life, or the idiot that is borderline flunking out of school and somehow gets a 240 on Step 1. I guess I see more exceptions than I thought would exist and it just bothers me. Even the "normal range" statistics can bug you..... when you and your classmates talk about Step 1 or MCAT and you find out that someone you know you're smarter than (yea, I said it) does better than you. Tell me that doesn't bother you just a little bit You're right though... the best thing to do is try not to compare, even though it's the whole design and purpose of the test anyways. Grrrr.

 

[GoBuckeyes913]

Wow... only possibly the most important standardized test you will ever take in your life .



In the statistically insignificant pile of rejected papers?

Statistics are not Miss Cleo and they shouldnt be treated that way. Suggesting they are is just a misunderstanding of what statistics can tell us.

I should have wrote a few extra sentences so the pre-med vultures wouldn't jump all over my comment and lecture me about the value of statistics as if I was born in some barn last night. Of course studies and statistics are important. No one is suggesting any study should be treated like a "miss cleo" myth. All I am saying is that I personally don't agree with the whole idea of standardized tests when such a large individual component can determine the outcome. It just bothers me, that's all.

Most people will probably fall within the general trend though wouldn't you think? Someone disciplined enough to do well on a standardized test will probably do well on another standardized test. Someone who did well on the MCAT is more likely to do well on the Step I than someone who did not do well on the MCAT.

we can refer to exceptions all the time to make ourselves feel better: Aha! that guy with a 43 MCAT could potentially get owned on his Step 1s! (which is what most people on here seem to be doing)

The good thing though is .. these tests aren't IQ tests and don't depend on "intelligence" ... so people really can get from the bottom to the top

But in the end, all that matters is our own performance .. I try not to compare

I do agree that most people would fall into the trend, it's the one's that don't that irritate me. I.e. the really smart person that can't take a standardized test to save their life, or the idiot that is borderline flunking out of school and somehow gets a 240 on Step 1. I guess I see more exceptions than I thought would exist and it just bothers me. Even the "normal range" statistics can bug you..... when you and your classmates talk about Step 1 or MCAT and you find out that someone you know you're smarter than (yea, I said it) does better than you. Tell me that doesn't bother you just a little bit You're right though... the best thing to do is try not to compare, even though it's the whole design and purpose of the test anyways. Grrrr.

 

[Drogba]

I should have wrote a few extra sentences so the pre-med vultures wouldn't jump all over my comment and lecture me about the value of statistics as if I was born in some barn last night. Of course studies and statistics are important. No one is suggesting any study should be treated like a "miss cleo" myth. All I am saying is that I personally don't agree with the whole idea of standardized tests when such a large individual component can determine the outcome. It just bothers me, that's all.

Flattering characterization, thanks.

My allusion to Miss Cleo was to point out that statistics DO NOT have the power to "divine" things. On a purely abstract level I agree that standardized tests are not the best way to appraise someone's potential but on a practical level there aren't many acceptable, workable alternatives.