.

Visit College Ave for private loan funding: https://www.collegeavestudentloans.com/lp/product-choice/?utm_campaign=bank%20partner%20referral_casl&utm_source=hpsa&utm_medium=partner&utm_content=hpsa&brand=college%20ave&product=inschool&p_aff=hpsa&goal=acquisition
This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
Horners

Horners

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 31, 2017
Messages
140
Reaction score
421
.
Members don't see this ad.
 
Last edited:
Horners said:
I want 100M by 50. (Ambitious) is that stupid? Can I get that through proper real estate and stocks and alternative stuff?
Click to expand...
Not stupid at all! It's totally hedonistic!

Just keep moving decimal points (I assume that's what you mean by alternative stuff)!

Edit: That should have read realistic!
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 4 users
Members don't see this ad :)
It's unrealistic. 10M is certainly doable if you've got 20 years and focus the entirety of your existence on it, but anything above that is just going to be dumb luck or incredible skill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Mad Jack said:
It's unrealistic. 10M is certainly doable if you've got 20 years and focus the entirety of your existence on it, but anything above that is just going to be dumb luck or incredible skill.
Click to expand...
I've run the numbers before. Saving 10k a month for 25 years at average 6.5% return will produce almost 7.5M. Add in home equity, etc and you could be close to that 10M figure.

And 10k a month which would include maxing out 401K is very doable on a 400k year salary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
birchswing said:
Not stupid at all! It's totally hedonistic!

Just keep moving decimal points (I assume that's what you mean by alternative stuff)!

Edit: That should have read realistic!
Click to expand...

I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not regarding hedonistic vs realistic lol

But is true, there’s no good reason to want or need that kind of money other than hedonistic desires (and the reality is, I don’t even know what I’d spend it on... I don’t like fancy vehicles/clothes. Though I do want a nice house), I suppose feeling total financial security is likely around 10M. (Not sarcasm, in case that’s not translating well).

No one answered my other questions though, what is a number you guys want to get to and how would you go about it? I’m not trying to fill this forum up with money talk, I love psychiatry and I love seeing patients, but I just wonder if anyone is reaching for a certain number that makes them feel like content and completely secure.
 
alphadoc121 said:
You cannot get 100 million by 50 that is going to be impossible
Click to expand...

Here is how you get there. Take a job with the VA. Live like a resident until 50+. That will leave about $100k to invest in the state lottery every year. You’ll come out with $100M or $0. Likely $0, but you’ve got a chance at $100M. If it fails over 20 years, you still have your VA pension.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 15 users
TexasPhysician said:
Here is how you get there. Take a job with the VA. Live like a resident until 50+. That will leave about $100k to invest in the state lottery every year. You’ll come out with $100M or $0. Likely $0, but you’ve got a chance at $100M. If it fails over 20 years, you still have your VA pension.
Click to expand...

This made me laugh out loud. Excellent. Best of both worlds.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Horners said:
... I just wonder if anyone is reaching for a certain number that makes them feel like content and completely secure....
Click to expand...
No, because it doesn’t exist. And any such feelings derived solely from monetary assets would likely be fleeting at best for the vast majority of the population.
 
Horners said:
I can’t tell if you’re being sarcastic or not regarding hedonistic vs realistic lol

But is true, there’s no good reason to want or need that kind of money other than hedonistic desires (and the reality is, I don’t even know what I’d spend it on... I don’t like fancy vehicles/clothes. Though I do want a nice house), I suppose feeling total financial security is likely around 10M. (Not sarcasm, in case that’s not translating well).

No one answered my other questions though, what is a number you guys want to get to and how would you go about it? I’m not trying to fill this forum up with money talk, I love psychiatry and I love seeing patients, but I just wonder if anyone is reaching for a certain number that makes them feel like content and completely secure.
Click to expand...
You seem too nice to make $100 million that fast.

And yes, I was being sarcastic about it being realistic. I'm not a doctor, medical student, or anything like that, but I know about what doctors make per year, about how much would go to taxes, approximately what living expenses are, and yeah, it didn't sound realistic.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
And here I thought I was being ambitious w/ 15M by the time I'm 60
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
eteshoe said:
And here I thought I was being ambitious w/ 15M by the time I'm 60
Click to expand...

Consider my ambition more as a result of ignorance surrounding how wealth is created and grows vs having an actual plan lol... though the idea of playing the lottery with a 100k a year doesn’t sound too bad at this point Hahahah

Can we delete this thread? I’m kind of embarrassed at my own naivety lol
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Horners said:
Consider my ambition more as a result of ignorance surrounding how wealth is created and grows vs having an actual plan lol... though the idea of playing the lottery with a 100k a year doesn’t sound too bad at this point Hahahah

Can we delete this thread? I’m kind of embarrassed at my own naivety lol
Click to expand...
 

Attachments

  • D2E3A197-8A62-45D0-86E4-82606AE374EE.jpeg
    D2E3A197-8A62-45D0-86E4-82606AE374EE.jpeg
    182.2 KB · Views: 170
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 5 users
2.5 mil with a paid off house. Can live quite comfortably on that and maintain my current lifestyle.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
jbomba said:
I've run the numbers before. Saving 10k a month for 25 years at average 6.5% return will produce almost 7.5M. Add in home equity, etc and you could be close to that 10M figure.

And 10k a month which would include maxing out 401K is very doable on a 400k year salary.
Click to expand...
Eh, 10 million would be tough in 20 was my numbers though, if we're talking absolute net worth, but is possible. That extra five years makes a big difference, particularly if you have student loans and other debt going in. In 25 years, 10 million is easily doable on a physician's salary, even without cutting a lot of corners, though if you account for inflation that 10 million won't be worth what it is today- inflation will make it worth about half that, and that's if we don't enter a period of hyperinflation.

Given the math though, even 5 million is more than enough to live off of forever while never having to work again, easily netting you an inflation-adjusting $200,000 for life. 10 million will net you twice that. 100 million, twenty times that. How much each person wants is very different, but I think I could be plenty comfy on $200,000 never working again.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
bravotwozero said:
2.5 mil with a paid off house. Can live quite comfortably on that and maintain my current lifestyle.
Click to expand...
I technically almost have that already (I am 8 yrs post residency) but that includes value of property, and the paid off properties are my rental condo (that I bought to live in during med school) and rental house (that I bought to live in during residency) rather than my current house so I guess it doesn't actually count to most people. Currently projected to reach that number in my accounts in 8 years but I keep outpacing the target savings and moving up the date (and mint can't track one ser of accounts. And I don't even kill myself hours wise. Working spouse is very helpful, as is no children
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I suppose feeling total financial security is likely around 10M.
[/QUOTE]

I think the guy aiming for 100M by 50 needs to do a little reading on personal finance and what total financial security means. I am thinking you don’t have a clue... yes, there are definitions for these sorts of things..
 
TikiTorches said:
Tell me how
Click to expand...
Invest 15k per month at a 9% return for 20 years and you'll have $10.2 million. Doable by anyone if you work hard. In my state if you max out your 401k and put the rest of the just over 10k needed to save each month directly in the market in a S&P tracking ETF you'll have between 110-122k left to live on if your income is 400k pretax.
 
Mad Jack said:
Invest 15k per month at a 9% return for 20 years and you'll have $10.2 million. Doable by anyone if you work hard. In my state if you max out your 401k and put the rest of the just over 10k needed to save each month directly in the market in a S&P tracking ETF you'll have between 110-122k left to live on if your income is 400k pretax.
Click to expand...
That's investing 180 g per year. If a psych makes 300k a year and pays taxes, how can they live if they invest 180k a year?
 
TikiTorches said:
That's investing 180 g per year. If a psych makes 300k a year and pays taxes, how can they live if they invest 180k a year?
Click to expand...
I was running the numbers at 400k, which is easily doable if you're working your ass off. Remember my first post- it is doable *if* you're willing to sacrifice a lot for it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Mad Jack said:
I was running the numbers at 400k, which is easily doable if you're working your ass off. Remember my first post- it is doable *if* you're willing to sacrifice a lot for it.
Click to expand...

You don't even need to work your ass off.

200/hr is pretty common rate for locums.hell even insurance pp is going to earn more than that. Do 40 hrs a week, do a weekend inpatient coverage a month and you're probably looking at closer to 500.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
jbomba said:
You don't even need to work your ass off.

200/hr is pretty common rate for locums.hell even insurance pp is going to earn more than that. Do 40 hrs a week, do a weekend inpatient coverage a month and you're probably looking at closer to 500.
Click to expand...
Hey, I believe what you're saying but I am painting more of a worst case scenario. If you're in some big city, it may be harder to come by decent salary. But even with that you can pick up some weekends or whatever and pull 400k
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
jbomba said:
You don't even need to work your ass off.

200/hr is pretty common rate for locums.hell even insurance pp is going to earn more than that. Do 40 hrs a week, do a weekend inpatient coverage a month and you're probably looking at closer to 500.
Click to expand...
Any other side gigs ? In locums you pay more taxes as you are paying your own payroll taxes as a 1099
 
TikiTorches said:
Any other side gigs ? In locums you pay more taxes as you are paying your own payroll taxes as a 1099
Click to expand...
You can also put away more money pre-tax using a SEP IRA which allows for much faster savings. My calculations were actually based on SEP contributions, which allow 57k to be put away pre-tax.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Mad Jack said:
You can also put away more money pre-tax using a SEP IRA which allows for much faster savings. My calculations were actually based on SEP contributions, which allow 57k to be put away pre-tax.
Click to expand...
But you pay tax when taking it out. Is it 57 k ? I thought max was 16..
 
Mad Jack said:
SEP has a limit of 57k, 401/403 options are limited at 17k iirc
Click to expand...
401k for self employed is the employee contribution (same as for employed people) plus the employer portion based on profit and maxes out for a total of 57. For people who don't earn enough to max a sep a solo 401k is better.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Plus a sep complicates backdoor roth while a solo 401k doesn't and you can roll other traditional ira funds into it if needed to make backdoor roth more straightforward.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Mad Jack said:
You can also put away more money pre-tax using a SEP IRA which allows for much faster savings. My calculations were actually based on SEP contributions, which allow 57k to be put away pre-tax.
Click to expand...

Aren't there also a lot of creative accounting tricks when you're 1099 so you end up actually paying less tax?
 
Horners said:
No one answered my other questions though, what is a number you guys want to get to and how would you go about it?
Click to expand...

$3M because I've read from multiple sources that's probably close to the new "million." I'm almost 2/3 the way there and have at least 20years left in my career and my goals are true financial independence but with the health and fitness to continue working at a pace and schedule comfortable for me, and the freedom to travel (post-virus) to see the world and sample its culinary offerings; going about it by working my butt off right now and saving 80% of my income.
 
Horners said:
I want 100M by 50. (Ambitious) is that stupid? Can I get that through proper real estate and stocks and alternative stuff?
Click to expand...

This is doable, but medicine will not be the primary pathway to get there. You will need at least one highly successful, scalable business.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
leaverus said:
$3M because I've read from multiple sources that's probably close to the new "million." I'm almost 2/3 the way there and have at least 20years left in my career and my goals are true financial independence but with the health and fitness to continue working at a pace and schedule comfortable for me, and the freedom to travel (post-virus) to see the world and sample its culinary offerings; going about it by working my butt off right now and saving 80% of m

4 million is enough. Enjoy life
Click to expand...
 
leaverus said:
I'll bet you $100M that there are far more doctors than there are $100Maires.
Click to expand...

While that's certainly true, I wonder how many made concerted efforts to attain that level wealth and missed it vs how many premeds try to become a doctor and fail somewhere along the way.
 
jbomba said:
While that's certainly true, I wonder how many made concerted efforts to attain that level wealth and missed it vs how many premeds try to become a doctor and fail somewhere along the way.
Click to expand...
dpmd said:
Sounds like someone has fundamentally misunderstood the 4% rule (and also taxes apparently).
Click to expand...
Been digging into various fire/retirement blogs and articles lately and I have to say I'm least satisfied with financialsamurai. Of all the FIRE folks, FS gives the most clickbaity article titles, is extremely long-winded (more page jumps), and often doesn't even totally tie together the point of her articles. All of the bloggers are incentivized to get clicks and I think FS is the most transparently serving that particular interest.

Safe withdrawal rate has to be understood in the context in which it developed: semi-conservative not-quite-complete-asset-depletion for normal-age retirees. If you withdraw an amount equal to 4% of the stating value of your retirement portfolio, there's very low chance you'll run out of money before whatever age you assumed you'd die. Sucks if you live longer than that because you may well run out of money at that point.

FIRE planners shouldn't use the "4% safe withdrawal rate," IMO. Especially if you're planning on retiring 10 years from now in your 40's. At that point, personally, if you're actually betting on having all of your income for the rest of your life last based on just your investment accounts, you should shoot for around 3% fixed or use one of the more nuanced withdrawal strategies (see this calculator: FI Calc very helpfully posted by @zpiff in another thread recently for a bunch of options.)

Which brings me to my approximate retirement number of about $4M current USD. I currently live extremely comfortably on about $60-75k post-tax annually. I'd like to eventually have a $120k post-tax standard of living, especially if/when I get married and have kids. 120k is 3% of 4M and pretty much never fails for any span of recorded investment history.

But I would probably go with a more nuanced withdrawal strategy of something like $90-100k minimum annual distribution and then some sort of performance-based variable withdrawal for extra disposable $$.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
FlowRate said:
Been digging into various fire/retirement blogs and articles lately and I have to say I'm least satisfied with financialsamurai. Of all the FIRE folks, FS gives the most clickbaity article titles, is extremely long-winded (more page jumps), and often doesn't even totally tie together the point of her articles. All of the bloggers are incentivized to get clicks and I think FS is the most transparently serving that particular interest.

Safe withdrawal rate has to be understood in the context in which it developed: semi-conservative not-quite-complete-asset-depletion for normal-age retirees. If you withdraw an amount equal to 4% of the stating value of your retirement portfolio, there's very low chance you'll run out of money before whatever age you assumed you'd die. Sucks if you live longer than that because you may well run out of money at that point.

FIRE planners shouldn't use the "4% safe withdrawal rate," IMO. Especially if you're planning on retiring 10 years from now in your 40's. At that point, personally, if you're actually betting on having all of your income for the rest of your life last based on just your investment accounts, you should shoot for around 3% fixed or use one of the more nuanced withdrawal strategies (see this calculator: FI Calc very helpfully posted by @zpiff in another thread recently for a bunch of options.)

Which brings me to my approximate retirement number of about $4M current USD. I currently live extremely comfortably on about $60-75k post-tax annually. I'd like to eventually have a $120k post-tax standard of living, especially if/when I get married and have kids. 120k is 3% of 4M and pretty much never fails for any span of recorded investment history.

But I would probably go with a more nuanced withdrawal strategy of something like $90-100k minimum annual distribution and then some sort of performance-based variable withdrawal for extra disposable $$.
Click to expand...

What sort of investment accounts do you hold your savings in while taking those 4% withdrawals? I would imagine when someone is in retirement and needs that money to last for life, they move things to a very conservative investment vehicle. What very
conservative vehicle is giving 4-5% annual.return on average?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Next unread thread
Top