~When Age matters

[PPPartyMan]

I know all the medical schools say they don't discriminate and that they strive for diversity and some schools even make an effort to accommodate non-traditional applicants, etc. However, I'm sure everyone would agree that the adcom decides on how they want the incoming class to look, establishing a quota. When does your age become a negative when applying to medical school? Also, how much of a negative can it become, enough to outweigh GPA, MCAT scores, experiences.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[njbmd]

Hi there,
I can tell you from experience, that age was not a factor in medical school admissions. I applied to six schools; went to six interviews and was accepted by all six. I was the third oldest student in my class. If you have a competitive application, your age is not going to keep you out of medical school.

njbmd

 

[nicholonious]

I know all the medical schools say they don't discriminate and that they strive for diversity and some schools even make an effort to accommodate non-traditional applicants, etc. However, I'm sure everyone would agree that the adcom decides on how they want the incoming class to look, establishing a quota. When does your age become a negative when applying to medical school? Also, how much of a negative can it become, enough to outweigh GPA, MCAT scores, experiences.

Avg. age of entering class MS-1 is 23. What really depends is how mature you are.

 

[LizzyM]

I've been involved with an adcom for >5 years and I've never seen any kind of quota. The closest I've ever heard was something along the lines of, "The M1 class is only 40% female, let's be sure we are giving the female applicants a fair shake this year."

I've seen severe reservations about admitting very young applicants (<19 years old) but I've never heard anyone express reservations about an older applicant. In the past 5-10 years, "my" adcom has admitted students as old as 46, IIRC. A relatively large proportion of the matriculants are "non-traditional" but most of these applicants are still in their 20s, I think.

That said, I'd guess that the very young (<19) and the very old (>34) make up <1% of the applicant pool.

 

[eralza]

Aaagh, I've been labeled "very old"!
Personally, it took me 36 years to finally become mature enough to apply to med school. From what I experienced last year, if you show progression along a path that will benefit you as a physician, then you've got a pretty good shot. However, I think that most adcoms are a bit wary of the applicant who has included applying to med school as part of their mid-life crisis.
Good luck!

 

[nicholonious]

Aaagh, I've been labeled "very old"!
Personally, it took me 36 years to finally become mature enough to apply to med school. From what I experienced last year, if you show progression along a path that will benefit you as a physician, then you've got a pretty good shot. However, I think that most adcoms are a bit wary of the applicant who has included applying to med school as part of their mid-life crisis.
Good luck!

You're only as young/old as you feel. Cheers!

 

[ERJunkie]

I know all the medical schools say they don't discriminate and that they strive for diversity and some schools even make an effort to accommodate non-traditional applicants, etc. However, I'm sure everyone would agree that the adcom decides on how they want the incoming class to look, establishing a quota. When does your age become a negative when applying to medical school? Also, how much of a negative can it become, enough to outweigh GPA, MCAT scores, experiences.

Read the book "Becoming a Doctor," by Melvin Konner, M.D.

 

[gujuDoc]

I've been involved with an adcom for >5 years and I've never seen any kind of quota. The closest I've ever heard was something along the lines of, "The M1 class is only 40% female, let's be sure we are giving the female applicants a fair shake this year."

I've seen severe reservations about admitting very young applicants (<19 years old) but I've never heard anyone express reservations about an older applicant. In the past 5-10 years, "my" adcom has admitted students as old as 46, IIRC. A relatively large proportion of the matriculants are "non-traditional" but most of these applicants are still in their 20s, I think.

That said, I'd guess that the very young (<19) and the very old (>34) make up <1% of the applicant pool.

Hey if you are talking about USF, I actually heard that the oldest they've accepted was a 49 year old. This year I know of a 39 year old man accepted at USF and a 42 year old woman applying.

I agree that it depends on the maturity and competitiveness of the grades, MCAT, etc.

They want diversity, so nontrads have that edge of having life experience and diversity to help them.

 

[PPPartyMan]

Hey if you are talking about USF, I actually heard that the oldest they've accepted was a 49 year old. This year I know of a 39 year old man accepted at USF and a 42 year old woman applying.

I agree that it depends on the maturity and competitiveness of the grades, MCAT, etc.

They want diversity, so nontrads have that edge of having life experience and diversity to help them.

I am a little surprised by some of these comments. No one wants to admit that adcoms have loose quotas? I guess I came to that conclusion based on the tendency that getting accepted to medical school can appear random; especially when people constantly say that they got into some schools and not others when on paper they seem to be very similar. Also I have talked to numerous residents who thought medical schools have quotas. One was on the adcom at Iowa and said they steered away from older applicants stating that they would be too old when they finished residency and it would be a better investment to admit someone younger.

 

[ShyRem]

All that aside, APPLY EARLY if you're a non-trad. I applied late (most apps complete in late November), and got on the "to interview" pile of 4 schools who didn't get around to interviewing me. So I'm reapplying this year. That being said, I contacted some of the schools that rejected me - four told me I was "outside the normal age range for medical students at our institution".

Personally, I think that was just an excuse (but I would have rather heard I was not competitive). I could believe it was non-competitive - while I just graduated last week with honors, I messed up 18 years ago and got an entire semester of Fs (and the other grades weren't stellar either - without the Fs my GPA back then was only a 2.58). I would have hoped they could see past that and looked at 21 credits a semester, a double major in 3 years, and honors graduation. Instead they blamed it on age.

So, does age matter? Yes. Do grades matter (even very old ones)? Yes. Should these things deter you from medicine? No. Good luck!!! (and APPLY EARLY)

 

[gujuDoc]

I am a little surprised by some of these comments. No one wants to admit that adcoms have loose quotas? I guess I came to that conclusion based on the tendency that getting accepted to medical school can appear random; especially when people constantly say that they got into some schools and not others when on paper they seem to be very similar. Also I have talked to numerous residents who thought medical schools have quotas. One was on the adcom at Iowa and said they steered away from older applicants stating that they would be too old when they finished residency and it would be a better investment to admit someone younger.

No one is doubting the existance of quotas, but it must be taken into account that quotas are determined based on meeting certain diversity initiatives. Thus, they take certain amount of older applicants due to diversity initiatives. However, I'm not disagreeing that a younger physician will practice longer. Nonetheless, in this day an age, of older applicants applying, they do factor in the quotas. note by older, I don't refer to 30 years old, but rather 39-40 and above.

 

[Law2Doc]

Also I have talked to numerous residents who thought medical schools have quotas.

More and more nontraditionals have been admitted each year. Whereas it would have been a rarity to see someone in their 30s or 40s in med school a decade ago, its almost a guarantee that each med school is going to have at least one (probably more) such ancient elder now. The fact that the numerous residents you have spoke with have this quota view might have been true but more reflective of how things were five years ago -- when they themselves were competing for med schools, and med schools were still reluctant to back away from the 21 year old bio major cookie cutter model.
I somewhat doubt that there is a specific quota figure, but don't doubt that adcoms have a picture in their heads of how an ideally diverse med school class should look. That being said, when a school is considering an older nontraditional, they generally can be required to bring an unusual background and experiences which would add to the diversity of the class, and will go through somewhat greater scrutiny as to why they are changing their lives/careers to attend med school. So perhaps these added "hurdles" keep the number of nontrads low notwithstanding any quota.

 

[PineappleGirl]

I somewhat doubt that there is a specific quota figure, but don't doubt that adcoms have a picture in their heads of how an ideally diverse med school class should look.

Yeah, I can't imagine the adcoms have formal quotas to the effect of, we must have 75% of people be between 22 and 26 and 25% of people be over 26, or whatever, but I don't think in their idealized vision of their med school class will there ever be more than maybe 30% non-trad, just my opinion.

 

[DrBowtie]

I think when an applicant would be knocking on death's door by the end of school/residency it would become a negative. There wouldn't really be a point in training that person since they might not practice long enough to make back the investment. I know I will probably come off evil, but if that person dies, guess who is footing the loan bill? His family.

 

[LizzyM]

Well,one top tier school built a new anatomy lab locker rooms ~15 years ago . The women's locker room was half the size of the men's locker room and had half the lockers because no one could foresee a time when women would make up more than 33% of the class. They were brand new and already overcrowded.

With the exception of very young applicants, I haven't seen anyone actively decline an applicant on the basis of age, race or sex.

Does anyone have national (or other) stats on applicants, offers and matriculations by age, race, sex?

 

[LizzyM]

I think when an applicant would be knocking on death's door by the end of school/residency it would become a negative. There wouldn't really be a point in training that person since they might not practice long enough to make back the investment. I know I will probably come off evil, but if that person dies, guess who is footing the loan bill? His family.

I worked with a man who graduated from med school at ~50 after several decades in biochem research. Med school wasn't so bad but his wife said that residency was hell on her & the kids. He's 90 now & still working (edits the textbook in his field).

As far as I know, if a person dies then their estate is not responsible for the debt -- it is forgiven (at least this is the case on the the loans I have) -- maybe the lender has a small life insurance policy to cover the amount of the loans.

 

[Law2Doc]

I think when an applicant would be knocking on death's door by the end of school/residency it would become a negative. There wouldn't really be a point in training that person since they might not practice long enough to make back the investment. I know I will probably come off evil, but if that person dies, guess who is footing the loan bill? His family.

The average life expectancy in the US is mid 70s. Once someone makes it into their 30s or 40s in good health a life insurance actuary will usually adjust their life expectancy to an even higher age. Thus someone in their 30s or 40s in good health is hardly going to be expected to be knocking on death's door. Also part of the reason med schools are taking more and more older candidates is due to the fact that a small but decent percentage have gone on to excell in the field, become big name academicians and chairman, and otherwise very positively reflected on their med schools, notwithstanding their shorter professional careers.
(But if you are talking about someone starting in their 60s or older, however, perhaps I might tend to agree with you.)
I don't think you are coming off as evil, but you should note that older nontraditionals often have worked and saved for some time before applying to med school, and don't often have as big a "loan bill" (to stick with their family) as those coming right out of undergrad.

 

[Ol'DocToxic]

Newton described why it is harder for an older non-trad to get into medical school than for someone just finishing college as a pre-med. It's called the law of career inertia. Often, a career is visualized as an object moving along a certain path. This career, once in motion, tends to stay in motion along that path and it takes a lot of force to change its direction. There are a lot more "why's" to answer as an older applicant than if one were fresh out of college. Whereas the new college graduate gets asked essentially just "why medicine," the older applicant also gets asked "why now," and "why leave your current career," and "what more do you think you can accomplish as a physician," and "do you think you can handle classes again," etc. etc. Any one of these questions can raise a red flag for an ADCOM member, scuttling your chances at that school. For an applicant just graduating college, their career is viewed as an object already in motion along the path of becoming a physician and thus a career path that requires no deviation. Simple Newtonian physics. Of course, Newtonian principles break down once you get on the waitlist and we are still waiting for a unified quantum theory to explain who gets in at that point.

 

[PineappleGirl]

Newton described why it is harder for an older non-trad to get into medical school than for someone just finishing college as a pre-med. It's called the law of career inertia. Often, a career is visualized as an object moving along a certain path. This career, once in motion, tends to stay in motion along that path and it takes a lot of force to change its direction. There are a lot more "why's" to answer as an older applicant than if one were fresh out of college. Whereas the new college graduate gets asked essentially just "why medicine," the older applicant also gets asked "why now," and "why leave your current career," and "what more do you think you can accomplish as a physician," and "do you think you can handle classes again," etc. etc. Any one of these questions can raise a red flag for an ADCOM member, scuttling your chances at that school. For an applicant just graduating college, their career is viewed as an object already in motion along the path of becoming a physician and thus a career path that requires no deviation. Simple Newtonian physics. Of course, Newtonian principles break down once you get on the waitlist and we are still waiting for a unified quantum theory to explain who gets in at that point.

Wow, I really like this description.

Also just wanted to add in reference to the hypothetical older student dying with outstanding loans that government loans do not need to be paid back if you die, the government eats the cost of the loan.

 

[nicholonious]

Once a judge, tired of his job, quit and entered med school with his son. True story. He had to be around 50+ years old at the time.

 

[1Path]

Personally, I think that was just an excuse (but I would have rather heard I was not competitive). I could believe it was non-competitive - while I just graduated last week with honors, I messed up 18 years ago and got an entire semester of Fs (and the other grades weren't stellar either - without the Fs my GPA back then was only a 2.58). I would have hoped they could see past that and looked at 21 credits a semester, a double major in 3 years, and honors graduation. Instead they blamed it on age.

I personally think if you have an unblemished academic record then age deosn't matter. But if you do, it seems that your age + academic indiscretions become an excuse to reject you, especially at the top schools.

 

[DrBowtie]

Ok I was talking 70-80-90 range when you start. 50 is not that old by a lot of standards especially if you take care of yourself. I believe the average life expectancy is around 77 so if your 70 when you start, your pushing the odds the day you get out.

 

[Law2Doc]

Ok I was talking 70-80-90 range when you start. 50 is not that old by a lot of standards especially if you take care of yourself. I believe the average life expectancy is around 77 so if your 70 when you start, your pushing the odds the day you get out.

Again, life expectancy is a moving target -- if you get to 70 in good health, your life expectancy is going to be well above 77, according to actuarial tables. But I tend to agree with you -- starting at 70+ is a bit late if you actually plan to practice.

 

[LadyJubilee8_18]

Avg. age of entering class MS-1 is 23. What really depends is how mature you are.

I thought med schools liked older applicants because they are more likely to have real world medical experience and tend to be more committed. I thought I was at a disadvantage because i am applying straight out of undergrad.

 

[LizzyM]

The very large proportion of applicants are college seniors. A second, large group are recent graduates (within the last year). The "older", "mature" student is often someone who is 25-29 and who has been employed for the past 3+ years. It's relative.

The applicants over age 30 are uncommon.

 

[TripleDegree]

The very large proportion of applicants are college seniors. A second, large group are recent graduates (within the last year). The "older", "mature" student is often someone who is 25-29 and who has been employed for the past 3+ years. It's relative.

The applicants over age 30 are uncommon.

To the OP: take a look at the SDN non-trad thread, and other sites like oldpremeds.org, mommd.com and so on. Don't get discouraged by some of the postings here. There is a definite upward trend of "non-trads" applying to medical school, and the adcoms look very favorably upon diverse experience. Of course having said that, your numbers have to be competitive, no one is going to let you in based on experience alone.

 

[PPPartyMan]

Once a judge, tired of his job, quit and entered med school with his son. True story. He had to be around 50+ years old at the time.

Nice responses so far . . . but I was hoping for more imput regarding the 25-30 yr old range not the 40-65 yr old range. All things being equal between two applicants except for age, should the committee always choose the younger one?

 

[gluon999]

How young is too young? 18, 19, 20?

 

[gujuDoc]

Nice responses so far . . . but I was hoping for more imput regarding the 25-30 yr old range not the 40-65 yr old range. All things being equal between two applicants except for age, should the committee always choose the younger one?

Oh if you are in the 25-30 range, then I don't think they would have a huge deal about the age, because 25 is right around the average at most schools. Most schools have an average of 23-25 somewhere. At least USF does. But, there are quite a few in the 27-30 range that applied this year and got in.

I think, they just don't want too many people applying whom are like 50 because then they won't have many years to practice. Sometimes they still do take 50 year olds too, so I mean it really depends. Can't really comment more without knowing specifics about your specific situation.

 

[mamadoc]

Nice responses so far . . . but I was hoping for more imput regarding the 25-30 yr old range not the 40-65 yr old range. All things being equal between two applicants except for age, should the committee always choose the younger one?

The person a little older than the norm may have some interesting stories that make his/her application stand out - e.g. Peace Corps or military service - things that an applicant coming straight out of college just wouldn't have been able to do. So if you're comparing the 20-24 y/o age group with the 25-30 y/o age group, I'd think it'd be the younger ones who should be worried.

However, I don't think ANY school of medicine approaches it in the way you're speculating. There isn't a grid into which applicants are fitted. The whole process is designed to give serious consideration to every individual - well, every individual who makes the cut to get an interview, anyway. And I am dead sure that age alone wouldn't put someone into the "no way" pile when they're deciding on interviews... since that would be illegal. I was on the AdCom of a school that gets thousands of applications each year and each application got a LOT of individual attention. Each person is considered on the merits. Qualified and interesting applications are interesting whether they're from a 20 y/o or a 40 y/o.

 

[samdwi]

There is a second year student at UF who is 54.

 

[Ifellinapothole]

age matters when you suspect she may not be 18.

 

[Forensic Chick]

How young is too young? 18, 19, 20?

Hello all,

I graduated with my Bachelor's when I was 20 and had an interview shortly thereafter. The interview went great but a few questions arose with concerns to my age. Things like: "How do you really know you want to go into medicine?" and "How do you interact with older people?" It's not like I was 16 or anything - but the fact that I wasn't old enough to go out and have a beer with them put a damper on things I think. I was waitlisted - but I'm not going to blame that on my age. I'm reapplying this year, at 23, going in strong with a Master's degree and more medical/life experience. I think they were concerned that I was lacking the latter at 20 years old -- not that I'd blame them. It would have been scary to be a physician at 25 years old.

Just my 2 cents...

 

[efex101]

Again, like someone else posted...IF you are competitve ALL AROUND (recent courses with A's, volunteering, excellent LOR's, good solid MCAT) there is no reason why you would not get accepted. I applied to 32 schools on AMCAS (at the young age of 38) received secondaries from all and received interviews at ALL schools except TWO. I went on 11 interviews and received 9 acceptances (with some giving me full rides) and two WL (which I promptly removed myself from). The key elements are applying EARLY and applying BROADLY! this is so important! so NO age NEVER came up and I am now an MS1 soon to be MS2.

 

[erahimy]

Hello all,

I graduated with my Bachelor's when I was 20 and had an interview shortly thereafter. The interview went great but a few questions arose with concerns to my age. Things like: "How do you really know you want to go into medicine?" and "How do you interact with older people?" It's not like I was 16 or anything - but the fact that I wasn't old enough to go out and have a beer with them put a damper on things I think. I was waitlisted - but I'm not going to blame that on my age. I'm reapplying this year, at 23, going in strong with a Master's degree and more medical/life experience. I think they were concerned that I was lacking the latter at 20 years old -- not that I'd blame them. It would have been scary to be a physician at 25 years old.

Just my 2 cents...

I believe its not age that matters so much as it is maturity and life experience. And it traditionally goes, that the longer you've been alive on this planet, you generally have more experience and are a more mature individual. But of course, there are many exceptions to this rule. For example, I know a 28 year old grad student here at UMichigan who has kids, yet goes out every weekend and parties hard with undergrads, gets tanked, exposes his little kids to these environments, then repeats the following weekend. Conversely, I know a 19 year old dealing with a mother whose had brain cancer for 2 years, whose father has left the country, and yet she works 40-50 hour weeks on top of going to school full time just to support her family.

In the end, its not the number that stands out on your application. It's the feel the interviewer will get from you when interviewing you. Sure if the interviewer sees you are 19 and applying to med school, that will raise the caution flag, but it will only make them more attentive to notice whether you possess sufficient maturity and life experience to be a successful med student.

Myself, I had recently turned 20 years of age prior to my interview at Baylor back in September. I was towards the younger end of the spectrum as far as my class was concerned (always had the late birthday). Yet, on top of it I was on track to graduate a year early from UM with my degree. Leading up to my interview I was positive I would get asked why so soon, so I was preparing answers in my head the entire time. If there was one question I was so sure I was going to get asked, it was this one. Funny, neither one of my 2 interviewers even touched on the subject.

 

[EvoDevo]

Again, like someone else posted...IF you are competitve ALL AROUND (recent courses with A's, volunteering, excellent LOR's, good solid MCAT) there is no reason why you would not get accepted. I applied to 32 schools on AMCAS (at the young age of 38) received secondaries from all and received interviews at ALL schools except TWO. I went on 11 interviews and received 9 acceptances (with some giving me full rides) and two WL (which I promptly removed myself from). The key elements are applying EARLY and applying BROADLY! this is so important! so NO age NEVER came up and I am now an MS1 soon to be MS2.

At Mayo no less.

 

[45408]

As far as I know, if a person dies then their estate is not responsible for the debt -- it is forgiven (at least this is the case on the the loans I have) -- maybe the lender has a small life insurance policy to cover the amount of the loans.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure my federal loan debt is erased if I die or became severely and permanently disabled. Besides, if you're older, you can just take out term life insurance for $500K which would easily pay off the debt.