When do you plan to get the coronavirus vaccine?

[DeadCactus]

During the clinical trials if possible? Once FDA approved? Some period of time after it's been on the market?

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[WilcoWorld]

Volunteered for a trial - getting my first dose (or a placebo) tomorrow morning.

My opinion: somebody's gotta do it, might as well be me.

 

[GeneralVeers]

Will antibody testing be necessary before getting it? If I've already had Rona, I'm not sure I'd want to get a vaccine.

 

[Birdstrike]

During the clinical trials if possible? Once FDA approved? Some period of time after it's been on the market?

I volunteered for the trial and I'll gladly take it if they call me, but I haven't heard a word, yet. I'll take it as soon as they'll give it to me. Why would I be afraid of a vaccine? I've had dozens, every family member has had dozens and we've given dozens to our kids. No one that I know has ever had a significant reaction. I'm about as afraid of vaccines as I am of a peanut, which is about as likely to kill a person. The most common "problem" I see from vaccines are the hallucinated type, similar to "my grandma ate carrots one day and got cancer the next week, therefore the carrots caused her cancer, so I'll never eat carrots again, carrots are bad."

What do y'all think they put in these things, mercury still? Live polio virus? Seriously, do some research. We've got epi and benadryl for ---- sake if you get an allergic reaction, which you could have walking through a field with grass pollen, for Pete's sake. All they're injecting is some innocuous proteins that are either going to give you an immune reaction (which you want) or at worst do nothing.

You all work in the ER, or at least in healthcare. You've seen countless people die of heart disease, lung disease, pneumonia, trauma, sepsis, you name it. When's the last time you saw someone lose life or limb from an "experimental vaccine" or any vaccine at all, for that matter?

It's as made-up a boogy man as there ever was.

 

[DeadCactus]

I volunteered for the trial and I'll gladly take it if they call me, but I haven't heard a word, yet. I'll take it as soon as they'll give it to me. Why would anyone be afraid of a vaccine? I've had dozens, every family member has had doses and we've given dozens to our kids. No one that I know has ever had a significant reaction. I'm about as afraid of vaccines as I am of a peanut, which is about as likely to kill a person. The most common "problem" I see from vaccines are the hallucinated type, similar to "my grandma ate carrots one day and got cancer the next week, therefore the carrots caused her cancer, so I'll never eat carrots again."

I agree that vaccines are generally benign and I'd be more worried about an experimental chronic medication, surgery, or implant. It's still an untested medication though and adverse events could start to show up at the population level. Is this risk of an adverse event lower than the risk of COVID infection with a significant complication? I would think so but Step 1 is full of adverse events people didn't expect at the time. There are certainly some frustrating aspects to the FDA but we have them for a reason. I think there is no right answer until we have more data and the risk either way is likely small.

 

[Birdstrike]

I agree that vaccines are generally benign and I'd be more worried about an experimental chronic medication, surgery, or implant. It's still an untested medication though and adverse events could start to show up at the population level. Is this risk of an adverse event lower than the risk of COVID infection with a significant complication? I would think so but Step 1 is full of adverse events people didn't expect at the time. There are certainly some frustrating aspects to the FDA but we have them for a reason. I think there is no right answer until we have more data and the risk either way is likely small.

From the research I've done, I seem to recall the risk of death or serious illness from a vaccine was somewhere in the range of 1:100,000 to 1:1,000,000. Let say for the sake of argument, accounting for the fact that this vaccine is currently new and still experimental, at this stage it's 10-100 times more likely to cause a serious reaction than a "proven" vaccine. That would give you a risk ranging from 1:100,000 to 1:1,000, which is 0.001% to 0.10%. If you compare that to an infection fatality rate of COVID-19 which is estimated to be anywhere from 0.020% to 0.16%, then you're at a point where the risks are hard to distinguish from each other with any degree of confidence and therefore are essentially interchangeable (please check my math). So, if you look at it that way, you're probably no better (or worse) off either way, currently with a vaccine in the experimental phase, vs getting the virus.

But I think when you get to a point where tens to hundreds of thousands of people have been given the vaccine without significant rates of serious side effects, then you're much better off getting the vaccine, than getting the disease, in my opinion; especially if you have significant risk factors for serious COVID-19 outcomes.

 

[DoctwoB]

I’ll get the vaccine 5 minutes after it’s offered to me. Or sooner if I can arrange it. Agree with above, even an experimental vaccine will have quite low risks. It’s not even a live virus, it’s a hunk of mRNA with previously used adjuvants. Biggest risk is it just doesn’t work. For covid the above CFR neglects the risk of significant illness with long term seauelae, likely an order of magnitude higher. Or even a mild/moderate illness that is significantly worse then most vaccine adverse events.

Were doctors. If we can’t set an example for society who the hell will? Finally it’s not like we’re going to be given a choice at most hospitals and I can’t say I blame admin.

 

[namethatsmell]

Vaccine me. Agree with Birdstrike's analysis.

Plus, in the extremely unlikely event that the vaccine turns us all into zombies I'd rather turn in the first wave. Less time stressing about when it'd be my turn to join the horde vs if I was going to be eaten by the neighborhood cat lady first. Life has been stressful enough lately.

 

[thegenius]

I volunteered for the trial and I'll gladly take it if they call me, but I haven't heard a word, yet. I'll take it as soon as they'll give it to me. Why would I be afraid of a vaccine? I've had dozens, every family member has had dozens and we've given dozens to our kids. No one that I know has ever had a significant reaction. I'm about as afraid of vaccines as I am of a peanut, which is about as likely to kill a person. The most common "problem" I see from vaccines are the hallucinated type, similar to "my grandma ate carrots one day and got cancer the next week, therefore the carrots caused her cancer, so I'll never eat carrots again, carrots are bad."

What do y'all think they put in these things, mercury still? Live polio virus? Seriously, do some research. We've got epi and benadryl for ---- sake if you get an allergic reaction, which you could have walking through a field with grass pollen, for Pete's sake. All they're injecting is some innocuous proteins that are either going to give you an immune reaction (which you want) or at worst do nothing.

You all work in the ER, or at least in healthcare. You've seen countless people die of heart disease, lung disease, pneumonia, trauma, sepsis, you name it. When's the last time you saw someone lose life or limb from an "experimental vaccine" or any vaccine at all, for that matter?

It's as made-up a boogy man as there ever was.

As I've said before if they use a similar delivery mechanisms with the same ingredients and diluents as other commonly used vaccines then I'll have no problem getting one. But if it's brand new thing and all they have done is just test it on 1000 people and watched them for 3 months, then no I'll wait. What's the point? There is an 80% chance I'll have no symptoms if I get COVID. There is about a zero chance I'll get it if I wash my hands and wear a mask. I'm around COVID every single shift and haven't gotten it yet. Part of the reason why vaccines take 10-20 years to develop is testing long term efficacy. No point if 0.1% of people get a cardiomyopathy, steatosis or some weird rheum thing.

The main interventions to mitigate spread are so benign. Today my entire family went to Stinson beach and I never wore a mask except to rent our kids some wetsuits and boogie boards. For 5 minutes out of 5 hr day at the beach. About 10% of people wore masks out there. I had no problem with it at all. (Helped that the wind was blowing 15 knots.)

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

As I've said before if they use a similar delivery mechanisms with the same ingredients and diluents as other commonly used vaccines then I'll have no problem getting one. But if it's brand new thing and all they have done is just test it on 1000 people and watched them for 3 months, then no I'll wait. What's the point? There is an 80% chance I'll have no symptoms if I get COVID. There is about a zero chance I'll get it if I wash my hands and wear a mask. I'm around COVID every single shift and haven't gotten it yet. Part of the reason why vaccines take 10-20 years to develop is testing long term efficacy. No point if 0.1% of people get a cardiomyopathy, steatosis or some weird rheum thing.

The main interventions to mitigate spread are so benign. Today my entire family went to Stinson beach and I never wore a mask except to rent our kids some wetsuits and boogie boards. For 5 minutes out of 5 hr day at the beach. About 10% of people wore masks out there. I had no problem with it at all. (Helped that the wind was blowing 15 knots.)

It wouldn't surprise me if this ends up being a periodic vaccine like flu or tetanus (or increasingly pertussis) as opposed to a single series that covers you for life like most of the childhood ones. So from that perspective, a very lengthy trial to see if immunity lasts for 10 years isn't a huge deal. Plus, this is something more urgently needed than most other vaccines we've developed in the last 20 years.

 

[Tenk]

I volunteered for the trial and I'll gladly take it if they call me, but I haven't heard a word, yet. I'll take it as soon as they'll give it to me. Why would I be afraid of a vaccine? I've had dozens, every family member has had dozens and we've given dozens to our kids. No one that I know has ever had a significant reaction. I'm about as afraid of vaccines as I am of a peanut, which is about as likely to kill a person. The most common "problem" I see from vaccines are the hallucinated type, similar to "my grandma ate carrots one day and got cancer the next week, therefore the carrots caused her cancer, so I'll never eat carrots again, carrots are bad."

What do y'all think they put in these things, mercury still? Live polio virus? Seriously, do some research. We've got epi and benadryl for ---- sake if you get an allergic reaction, which you could have walking through a field with grass pollen, for Pete's sake. All they're injecting is some innocuous proteins that are either going to give you an immune reaction (which you want) or at worst do nothing.

You all work in the ER, or at least in healthcare. You've seen countless people die of heart disease, lung disease, pneumonia, trauma, sepsis, you name it. When's the last time you saw someone lose life or limb from an "experimental vaccine" or any vaccine at all, for that matter?

It's as made-up a boogy man as there ever was.

Yeah but then they will use their aborted fetal cell Bill Gates tracker to monitor you even though you wrote this on a phone that already does that.

 

[BoardingDoc]

Yeah but then they will use their aborted fetal cell Bill Gates tracker to monitor you even though you wrote this on a phone that already does that.

I had a 70 year old patient in the ED a few days ago who tried to tell me about that. Had a very mildly odd affect but seemed otherwise normal up front. Nope. Freaking wackadoodle.

That said, for the common fare that comes through the ED, he was pretty mild.

 

[Birdstrike]

...in the extremely unlikely event that the vaccine turns us all into zombies...

That would be cool.

 

[Birdstrike]

Yeah but then they will use their aborted fetal cell Bill Gates tracker to monitor you even though you wrote this on a phone that already does that.

 

[Birdstrike]

I had a 70 year old patient in the ED a few days ago who tried to tell me about that. Had a very mildly odd affect but seemed otherwise normal up front. Nope. Freaking wackadoodle.

That said, for the common fare that comes through the ED, he was pretty mild.

It's very unlikely Bill Gates will plant a microchip in you to track you. But I put the odds at 75% that hospital admins will at least consider it to track ED metrics.

 

[Tenk]

It's very unlikely Bill Gates crew will plan a microchip in you to track you. But I put the odds at at least 75%, that hospital admins would at least consider microchip implants to track ED metrics, if they could.

What astounds me the most is that people think they are unique enough to actually be tracked in the first place. Most people are so boring and mundane that nobody would care what they do, let alone spend resources monitoring them.

Monitor would be like:

-Host went to Walmart.
-Host went to McDonalds.
-Host spent 3 hours posting on Facebook.
-Host went back to McDonalds.

 

[Birdstrike]

What astounds me the most is that people think they are unique enough to actually be tracked in the first place. Most people are so boring and mundane that nobody would care what they do, let alone spend resources monitoring them.

Monitor would be like:

-Host went to Walmart.
-Host went to McDonalds.
-Host spent 3 hours posting on Facebook.
-Host went back to McDonalds.

Lol. That's exactly right. People somehow envision themselves in the center of a spy novel, when in reality their life if more like this guy. There's no payoff when tracking this.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I’m military so probably getting it first once it’s approved. I’ll let y’all know if I grow a second head or something.

 

[Birdstrike]

I’ll let y’all know if I grow a second head or something.

That would be cool.

 

[Rekt]

What astounds me the most is that people think they are unique enough to actually be tracked in the first place. Most people are so boring and mundane that nobody would care what they do, let alone spend resources monitoring them.

Monitor would be like:

-Host went to Walmart.
-Host went to McDonalds.
-Host spent 3 hours posting on Facebook.
-Host went back to McDonalds.

"Wow this guy is terrible at Warzone"

 

[Apollyon]

What astounds me the most is that people think they are unique enough to actually be tracked in the first place. Most people are so boring and mundane that nobody would care what they do, let alone spend resources monitoring them.

Monitor would be like:

-Host went to Walmart.
-Host went to McDonalds.
-Host spent 3 hours posting on Facebook.
-Host went back to McDonalds.

Hell, we see this right here on SDN. It's like the guy (?) that posted his rank list what, maybe 10 years ago, who was already anonymous (never saw him before, and I have read every post, ever, in the EM forum), and left off #10, because it was his home program, and, when I pointed out that no one knew who he was, but, more importantly, no one cares, he deleted the entire post. Huh? I mean, we have to wear a NAME TAG at work. You can't be anonymous there, and people still don't care.

 

[BAM!]

It doesn't bother any of you the two main US vaccines are both mRNA vaccines? These are completely experimental, never been done before, and there aren't even any FDA approved drugs that are mRNA drugs!

Why mRNA? This technology stems from cancer pharmaceuticals which is lucrative in the US, whereas vaccine development is not. Therefore the US has plenty of experts in experimental cancer drugs but not many in vaccine development.

Oxford's attempt at the vaccine seems more promising but realize it is using a live virus (attenuated adenovirus with spike protein cloned into it).

China is the only main contender I know of which is taking the more traditional approach at making a vaccine; ie protein + immunogenic adjuvant.

Go China!

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oxford's attempt at the vaccine seems more promising but realize it is using a live virus (attenuated adenovirus with spike protein cloned into it).

I’ve had the adenovirus vaccine, so sign me up for that one!

 

[bravotwozero]

I'd take it after it's successfully passed phase III.

 

[Rekt]

I'm sure this is an incredibly dumb question, but how are they testing the efficacy? I'm assuming it's not ethical to slap a vaccinated subject in a room with COVID positives.

 

[turkeyjerky]

I’ve had the adenovirus vaccine, so sign me up for that one!

I think the worry with that one is that, provided you have preexisting immunity to the adenovirus in question, your body may clear it w/o generating a sufficient immune response to the spike protein.

It doesn't bother any of you the two main US vaccines are both mRNA vaccines? These are completely experimental, never been done before, and there aren't even any FDA approved drugs that are mRNA drugs!

Why mRNA? This technology stems from cancer pharmaceuticals which is lucrative in the US, whereas vaccine development is not. Therefore the US has plenty of experts in experimental cancer drugs but not many in vaccine development.

Oxford's attempt at the vaccine seems more promising but realize it is using a live virus (attenuated adenovirus with spike protein cloned into it).

China is the only main contender I know of which is taking the more traditional approach at making a vaccine; ie protein + immunogenic adjuvant.

Go China!

It definitely bothers me that there's been so much hype about Moderna--I'd say even odds that the whole saga becomes nothing more than a massive pump-and-dumb for their stock holders.

Also bothers me a little that seemingly every vaccine is targeting only the spike protein, rather than different vaccines targeting different targets.

I'm sure this is an incredibly dumb question, but how are they testing the efficacy? I'm assuming it's not ethical to slap a vaccinated subject in a room with COVID positives.

They test the efficacy w/ a controlled trial in areas w/ high transmission, and then compare rates of contracting covid. There's enough community transmission in several countries (US, Brazil, etc) where you should be able to detect a difference over the next few months.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

They test the efficacy w/ a controlled trial in areas w/ high transmission, and then compare rates of contracting covid. There's enough community transmission in several countries (US, Brazil, etc) where you should be able to detect a difference over the next few months.

Yep. I'm here in SC and there's been a big push to get people here to sign up for the trials for just that reason

 

[thegenius]

I'm sure this is an incredibly dumb question, but how are they testing the efficacy? I'm assuming it's not ethical to slap a vaccinated subject in a room with COVID positives.

You immunize a bunch of people and send them off in the world, asking them not to modify any of their normal daily activities. They come back x months later and look at the results of those immunized vs those given placebo and go from there.

part of the reason it takes so long is most vaccine research is it's either seasonal (flu), it's low prevalence (HPV), or the virus is not in pandemic mode (e.g. measles). So it's really hard to get people to get infected. For the most part that shouldn't be the case with COVID-19

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think the worry with that one is that, provided you have preexisting immunity to the adenovirus in question, your body may clear it w/o generating a sufficient immune response to the spike protein.

Yeah I was making a joke about how the military lives to just give us vaccines that may not be ready for the public yet.

 

[bravotwozero]

Yeah I was making a joke about how the military lives to just give us vaccines that may not be ready for the public yet.

lol anthrax anyone? That's why I'm waiting for phase 3.

In the philippines, the geniuses came up with a Dengue fever vaccine for kids, without actually doing any clinical trials on children! They had at least a 150 or so deaths, and the pharmaceutical executives for the vaccine company ended up in jail i believe.

 

[Birdstrike]

It doesn't bother any of you the two main US vaccines are both mRNA vaccines? These are completely experimental, never been done before, and there aren't even any FDA approved drugs that are mRNA drugs!

Why mRNA? This technology stems from cancer pharmaceuticals which is lucrative in the US, whereas vaccine development is not. Therefore the US has plenty of experts in experimental cancer drugs but not many in vaccine development.

Oxford's attempt at the vaccine seems more promising but realize it is using a live virus (attenuated adenovirus with spike protein cloned into it).

China is the only main contender I know of which is taking the more traditional approach at making a vaccine; ie protein + immunogenic adjuvant.

Go China!

There’s several killed virus COVID-19 vaccines in development, the oldest most tried and true method, mostly in China. I posted a link to all 100+ experimental vaccines in one of the other threads.

 

[Birdstrike]

Yeah I was making a joke about how the military lives to just give us vaccines that may not be ready for the public yet.

China already gave one of theirs to their soldiers. I posted a story on that a while back, in one of the other threads.

 

[thegenius]

Does anybody notice there is a new "Like" emoji called "Care?" What the hell is that emoji supposed to portray? It looks like there is ketchup or blood all over the chin and mouth.

 

[Apollyon]

There’s several killed virus COVID-19 vaccines in development, the oldest most tried and true method, mostly in China. I posted a link to all 100+ experimental vaccines in one of the other threads.

Oldest, most tried and true? Ever hear of cowpox?

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Oldest, most tried and true? Ever hear of cowpox?

I’m not sure that’s the most tried and true. The oldest for sure.

 

[WilcoWorld]

Does anybody notice there is a new "Like" emoji called "Care?" What the hell is that emoji supposed to portray? It looks like there is ketchup or blood all over the chin and mouth.

I "care" about your post.

-insert eye roll here-

I'll take this opportunity to restate my previous position. There should be likes which mean "I agree with this post" and maybe laughter indicating the post is funny, but the rest should be actual text replies that state otherwise. I don't care if you disagree/care/question/hate my post nearly as much as I care what you disagree/care/question/hate my post for. Reducing reactions to a multiple choice question is stupefying.

 

[Apollyon]

I "care" about your post.

-insert eye roll here-

See, I see it too be more sincere. I find it surprising that you put the eye roll in.

I thought it was care for the person.

 

[WilcoWorld]

See, I see it too be more sincere. I find it surprising that you put the eye roll in.

I thought it was care for the person.

You caught me mid edit, please see my full post.

If caring for the person is my intent, I'm inclined to send a personal message - but that's me.

 

[Doctor-S]

Does anybody notice there is a new "Like" emoji called "Care?" What the hell is that emoji supposed to portray? It looks like there is ketchup or blood all over the chin and mouth.

Come to think of it, now that I'm looking at it ... it does look like blood or ketchup all over the chin and face.

But ...

If you look closely, you can see the caring emoji is hugging a little heart to its chest (and the shape of the heart is in red color).

I don't have any feels for the new emoji though ... if I want to care for someone, I'll just tell them instead.

 

[thegenius]

Come to think of it, now that I'm looking at it ... it does look like blood or ketchup all over the chin and face.

But ...

If you look closely, you can see the caring emoji is hugging a little heart to its chest (and the shape of the heart is in red color).

I don't have any feels for the new emoji though ... if I want to care for someone, I'll just tell them instead.

It's a terrible emoji drawing. It took me 2 days to see both arms hugging the heart.

 

[Birdstrike]

Oldest, most tried and true? Ever hear of cowpox?

When I was writing the post, I was literally thinking, “Some blankety blank is gonna bring probably going to bring up cowpox for small pox, even though it’s not really a man made vaccine, aren’t they. Better edit this.” Then I was like, “Nah, don’t bother. Too lazy right now. Tired of wasting time trying to win the internet.” Lol.

But yeah, you’re right. That one’s older.

 

[Birdstrike]

Does anybody notice there is a new "Like" emoji called "Care?" What the hell is that emoji supposed to portray? It looks like there is ketchup or blood all over the chin and mouth.

It’s not ketchup and blood? I guess I’m gonna stop using it then.