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I really cringe whenever I see this and my own parents are just as guilty. Please share your experiences and insight and warning, this is a bit of a venting thread.

It is just scary that some parents so willingly push their kids into such serious careers, especially when the parents have no medical experience of their own and fixate on income. This friend I have behaves exactly like my father and fortunately for me, I decided that I am in love with medicine but for totally different reasons. I'm all for stimulating interest in kids, but the degree to which some parents go can have very detrimental effects on their children.

This friend (who works in banking and has no family members in the medical field) recently had a baby girl. Before the baby was born, she decided her baby will be a surgeon because they make so much money. My friend's parents wanted her to be a doctor but she opted not to and says now she regrets it. We had an in-depth discussion and she goes "Oh, I like EVERYTHING about medicine". I really doubt someone can accurately say that without even having ever shadowed a doctor. She says surgery is too easy and that even she could perform surgery...she never even had surgery done on herself with the exception of a few stitches. She says the surgical career will be a piece of cake. She plans to brainwash her daughter once her daughter can sit up by herself, buy her medical baby toys and plastic body parts. Again, I told her, this is all under the assumption that her baby will want to play with those items at all.

Her plans for her baby include making her skip at least 2 grades, play the violin professionally, and enter the medical scholars program. Somehow she had the misunderstanding that the med scholars programs mean you enter the MD program straight out of high school and finish the degree immediately. I clarified that "yes, you are technically accepted into medical school, but most programs have you complete about 3 years of undergrad and maintain a minimum GPA". She hasn't even done her research properly!

We are close friends but all she does is obsess over her baby and this is all she ever talks about! I try to have meaningful, friendly, and in depth conversations about the pros and cons and that this career is one someone really has to have the heart for, you truly are a servant, and if you don't you will be terribly terribly miserable. She literally says "How hard can it be?!", and my thoughts are "I wish you only knew". My dad had this same mentality, and to this day he feels he somehow pushed me into it and really beats himself up over it. He still sends me random presents in the mail because when he finally saw the hardships of medical school and how long the training years can be, measured up against the debt and final income...he realized this is definitely not the field for money but a field for the heart.

I just wish people realize the association they are making with money and quality of life and that they are not interchangeable. That aside, some people literally have their minds made up and even logic and statistics don't budge them. What is up with this?
 

hal9000

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I agree with you, OP. My experiences are similar.

My parents (neither have any link to the medical field) wanted me to become a doctor. They pushed me so badly that I got pissed off at them one day and rebelled... by deciding I wasn't going to do medicine. The irony was great, and I savored the moment I said it: "I'm not doing medicine. I like computers more anyways." It was nice for a while. Then I had this great epiphany, that reminded me of all the reasons I--myself--wanted to do this in the first place (personal reasons)... and how those reasons had driven me for nearly 10 years... and how I'm throwing it all away just because of immature spite towards my parents. I'm glad I came to that realization as soon as I did, because I otherwise wouldn't be attending med school this year.

I nowadays have to put up with their regular declarations to random people, "My son's going to become a doctor!"... but I just try to ignore it for the most part. If there's one thing people should take from my experiences, it's that you should let your kids do whatever they want... not including the overly stupid things (yes, prostitution). If they're meant to be a doctor, they'll become one. If not, then oh well. Try to raise the kid right and trust in your parenting ability. Trying to force them into medicine can potentially have the opposite effect!

Of course, a "gentle nudge" never hurts.
 

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Eh, you got a dumb ass friend, we all have them. What kind of person makes claims that surgery is easy and they could do surgery with no experience? Coming from a family that could have cared less what I did, it's hard to relate to what you say, but I have plenty of friends like that in med school and figure they'll be perfectly good at their job like anyone else, so whatever. Hopefully her daughter will do what she wants and not what mommy wants, or will atleast love what she loves.
 

NewMDontheblock

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Dang OP... That is really extreme.
Yeah, my parents wanted me to be a doctor. Only because they didn't have it easy. I'm starting medical school this fall, and I dont feel engaged to it. If I don't like it, I'll quit.
But raising a child in the hope that he/she wil be what you want him/her to be... that's so sad.
 

Forthegood

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She says surgery is too easy and that even she could perform surgery...she never even had surgery done on herself with the exception of a few stitches. She says the surgical career will be a piece of cake.
Instead of surgery, she should think about psychiatry. But not as a career, as a patient.
 

TopSecret

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I really cringe whenever I see this and my own parents are just as guilty. Please share your experiences and insight and warning, this is a bit of a venting thread.

It is just scary that some parents so willingly push their kids into such serious careers, especially when the parents have no medical experience of their own and fixate on income. This friend I have behaves exactly like my father and fortunately for me, I decided that I am in love with medicine but for totally different reasons. I'm all for stimulating interest in kids, but the degree to which some parents go can have very detrimental effects on their children.

This friend (who works in banking and has no family members in the medical field) recently had a baby girl. Before the baby was born, she decided her baby will be a surgeon because they make so much money. My friend's parents wanted her to be a doctor but she opted not to and says now she regrets it. We had an in-depth discussion and she goes "Oh, I like EVERYTHING about medicine". I really doubt someone can accurately say that without even having ever shadowed a doctor. She says surgery is too easy and that even she could perform surgery...she never even had surgery done on herself with the exception of a few stitches. She says the surgical career will be a piece of cake. She plans to brainwash her daughter once her daughter can sit up by herself, buy her medical baby toys and plastic body parts. Again, I told her, this is all under the assumption that her baby will want to play with those items at all.

Her plans for her baby include making her skip at least 2 grades, play the violin professionally, and enter the medical scholars program. Somehow she had the misunderstanding that the med scholars programs mean you enter the MD program straight out of high school and finish the degree immediately. I clarified that "yes, you are technically accepted into medical school, but most programs have you complete about 3 years of undergrad and maintain a minimum GPA". She hasn't even done her research properly!

We are close friends but all she does is obsess over her baby and this is all she ever talks about! I try to have meaningful, friendly, and in depth conversations about the pros and cons and that this career is one someone really has to have the heart for, you truly are a servant, and if you don't you will be terribly terribly miserable. She literally says "How hard can it be?!", and my thoughts are "I wish you only knew". My dad had this same mentality, and to this day he feels he somehow pushed me into it and really beats himself up over it. He still sends me random presents in the mail because when he finally saw the hardships of medical school and how long the training years can be, measured up against the debt and final income...he realized this is definitely not the field for money but a field for the heart.

I just wish people realize the association they are making with money and quality of life and that they are not interchangeable. That aside, some people literally have their minds made up and even logic and statistics don't budge them. What is up with this?
Why can't she be a normal mother and allow her daughter to decide her own career? That stuff will make people crazy.
 
OP
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Asian mother? :p
Yeah!! lol, I had a feeling someone would guess and yes I am Asian too! :laugh: But seriously, some people need to think about the damage the pressure alone can cause: familial strain, the opposite effect, psych issues in the child, etc.
BTW, check this out rofl:
"You doctor yet?!"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t67jwjux0Ao&feature=related

Instead of surgery, she should think about psychiatry. But not as a career, as a patient.
Maybe some sort of postpartum issue? :O
 
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WellWornLad

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Being on the other end of the spectrum, my parents didn't have an opinion on college, let alone a career. Life guidance came down to my father's oft-invoked aphorism: "When you turn 18, you're out on your ass."

Can't say I wasn't prepared, however.
 

searun

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As with most aspects of life, the best parenting is between the extremes, supportive and interested without being controlling or dictatorial.
 

OPPforlife

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I think non-doctor parents have a right to expose their child to medicine. But yes, us asians take it to a different extreme. Sometimes I think even I have been brainwashed by my culture....in fact you know what I am positive that I am brainwashed to a certain degree. I just hope it doesnt hinder me from being a good "doctor sahab" (lol respected way of saying doctor in hindi). However, you guys are right, its all fun and games until one of us goes crazy and ends up putting human lives in danger.
 

UCSBMed1

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I think non-doctor parents have a right to expose their child to medicine. But yes, us asians take it to a different extreme. Sometimes I think even I have been brainwashed by my culture....in fact you know what I am positive that I am brainwashed to a certain degree. I just hope it doesnt hinder me from being a good "doctor sahab" (lol respected way of saying doctor in hindi). However, you guys are right, its all fun and games until one of us goes crazy and ends up putting human lives in danger.

Is it all fun and games though? I mean no disrespect, but to me it seems like some of those whose parents wanted them to be doctors consciously or subconsciously resent their chosen field, and take it out on their patients. You can always tell who these people are. They have poor bedside manner, aren't empathetic, and generally unhappy people. They give all doctors a bad name, and are one reason why we have such a bad reputation amongst many. Its unfortunate that you would let cultural and family pressures make you pursue such an all-consuming profession.

Take my advice: go into engineering or computer science. Leave the medicine to those who feel called to help the sick.
 

searun

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Hmmm, well, given the polar opposites expressed in this thread, if these were the only alternatives, I guess getting kicked out on your ass at 18 is preferable. At least you are not as likely to go postal. But, I did appreciate my parents financial and emotional support in college.

And I appreciate them paying my cell phone bill in med school and paying for my flight home at Christmas. They had nothing to do with my decision to go to med school, but they showed up for my White Coat Ceremony two years ago, cheesy, I know, but it was nice. They have celebrated my victories and cheered me up in the down moments. It is nice to have someone in your corner who does not tell you how to live your life.
 

OPPforlife

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Is it all fun and games though? I mean no disrespect, but to me it seems like some of those whose parents wanted them to be doctors consciously or subconsciously resent their chosen field, and take it out on their patients. You can always tell who these people are. They have poor bedside manner, aren't empathetic, and generally unhappy people. They give all doctors a bad name, and are one reason why we have such a bad reputation amongst many. Its unfortunate that you would let cultural and family pressures make you pursue such an all-consuming profession.

Take my advice: go into engineering or computer science. Leave the medicine to those who feel called to help the sick.
Ouch!...well I'll be honest you are completely 100% right. If someone's main reason for choosing medicine is family pressure, the could never be good doctors. Furthermore, I also believe that a bunch of this category drops out of med school or ultimately quits on medicine one way or another. I'd like to clarify one thing though, most Asian parents when brainwashing children for medicine do not entice them with careers that will bring their children glory or money, usually they just paint this picture that only through being a doctor can somebody help humanity (which ofcourse is BS as well).
 

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I'd like to clarify one thing though, most Asian parents when brainwashing children for medicine do not entice them with careers that will bring their children glory or money, usually they just paint this picture that only through being a doctor can somebody help humanity (which ofcourse is BS as well).
eh, not so much from what I've seen firsthand (not from my parents, but from other Asian people...you know what I mean). It is absolutely and completely for the money and glory for them.

In my case, one of my parents was pushing me into medicine from a relatively early age (high school), while the other was somewhat indifferent to my career choice (thankfully) and gave me a lot more autonomy. In the end, I ended up having the best of both, with the autonomy to pursue a completely unrelated (and not very-high paying, but to me, very fulfilling) masters degree, while still entering medicine next month. I competely blocked out pressure from any other Asian relatives/nosy people I knew, but I even had several (white) friends tell me that I'd make a good doctor...one said he was sure I'd be going MD/JD...:laugh: In the end, the decision was 100% mine. I had other options, but I decided to apply, and got admitted on the first try despite my numbers, cuz (unlike out of undergrad) I knew I wanted to do this completely.

For people whose parents are pushing them maniacally, my only hope is that they go to college far, far away from said parents and learn to live their own life.
 

phospho

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IsLeave the medicine to those who feel called to help the sick.
In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "calling to help the sick". We're human - at the end of the day, we're the same selfish greedy bastards. No one goes into medicine to "help the sick" - we go into medicine to fulfill some personal goal/agenda, and we happen to help the sick as a coincidence.

You and I would be lying to ourselves if we kept on trying to convince each other that we're in this JUST to help people. At the end of the day, it's all about me. If I'm not happy, screw the sick, I'll find something that makes ME happy. And that's how we all are - whether we admit it or not.

Like most people on this thread, I'm very against parents who push their kids into something that will fulfill the parents' personal agenda/goal. In the end, it's only going to make their kid(s) hate them.
 

mercaptovizadeh

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This is such a common problem among Asian Americans. It really is a shame. I now know so many Asian American physicians who have left the world of clinical medicine.
The mentality is understandable but sad. Especially the part about becoming a professional violinist and then a surgeon, and the two skipped grades.

I come from immigrant parents (European, not Asian), skipped three grades, not a professional violinist, and am now in med school. Was there pressure towards medicine? Yes, but I'm not unhappy since I like the science, even though I'm not a huge people person (I do care about suffering patients though). But I can conceive of many kids suffering from pressure to do a subject/field they hate. If you hated the science AND were an introvert, it would probably be hellish.

My mother tried to push me into doing engineering in college, because she was convinced that only an engineer can be a good doctor ( :laugh: ) but I absolutely refused and have no regrets.
 

ZagDoc

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In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "calling to help the sick". We're human - at the end of the day, we're the same selfish greedy bastards. No one goes into medicine to "help the sick" - we go into medicine to fulfill some personal goal/agenda, and we happen to help the sick as a coincidence.

You and I would be lying to ourselves if we kept on trying to convince each other that we're in this JUST to help people. At the end of the day, it's all about me. If I'm not happy, screw the sick, I'll find something that makes ME happy. And that's how we all are - whether we admit it or not.
You just made the logical mistake of denying the antecedent.

If A, then not B.
Not A.
Therefore B.

i.e. you assume that because someone cannot go into to medicine ONLY to "help the sick," they cannot go into medicine because they want to help the sick at all. So you affirm only the consequent (therefore, they must only go into medicine for selfish reasons).

In reality, the truth lies in the middle. Of course, no one goes into medicine "only to help the sick." Those people wouldn't last, because they couldn't sustain the viability necessary to practice in order to "help the sick." But that doesn't mean you cannot understand and operate within the realities of medicine and still derive enjoyment from helping the sick.

There's lots of things I enjoy about medicine. And one of them is the relationships I develop with my patients. It's a fantastic feeling when you can alleviate a patient's fears, or provide comfort and support, and even sometimes offer a "cure" to their illness. There is nothing else like it, and it is one part of my decision to enter medicine. That doesn't mean I don't enjoy other aspects of medicine, such as the intellectual challenge, professional (though dwindling) autonomy, rapport amongst colleagues. The culture is something else. It also doesn't mean I'm not looking out for myself and am aware of my bottom line. I will consider factors such as reimbursement and lifestyle when I submit my ERAS. But that doesn't mean that I cannot connect to my patients.
 

hal9000

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You just made the logical mistake of denying the antecedent.

If A, then not B.
Not A.
Therefore B.
No no, you are seriously mistaken my friend. For you see...



Doctors can't do logic. This goes double for those of us who haven't even become a doctor yet.

Break it down so we all can understand. Please use words like "enzyme", "catalyzed", and "sphincter".
 
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My parents were against me becoming a doctor. In fact, all the physicians I talked to were adamantly against me becoming a doctor. My parents wanted me to go into their field, very strongly. I know that feeling very well, that of being pulled/pushed into a profession without your agreement that it's right for you. I went through the hellish task of changing horses midstream out of the profession that my parents wanted me to be a part of, and into medicine. Having gone through the process, I have to say I couldn't be happier. However, like others have said, it's not just in medicine, but in any field, that parents can be that way. It's a shame, but it's simply the way some people(parents) are. I also have a friend that was pushed into medicine by their family, but their family wanted them in a specific med school. My friend was tormented by the fact that they got into medical schools, but not the one the parents wanted. Again, a shame.
 

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My mother tried to push me into doing engineering in college, because she was convinced that only an engineer can be a good doctor ( :laugh: ) but I absolutely refused and have no regrets.
It's interesting how many misconceptions parents have about what is/isn't good for medical school and what develops a good doctor. People presume so much.
 

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So is it a bad sign that last halloween, i dressed my 2 year old up as a mad surgeon with mini scrubs, mask and an oversized toy scalpel?
Is that picture going to be brought up in a therapy session 20 years from now?
God, i hope i'm not turning into one of those parents.
 

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So is it a bad sign that last halloween, i dressed my 2 year old up as a mad surgeon with mini scrubs, mask and an oversized toy scalpel?
Is that picture going to be brought up in a therapy session 20 years from now?
God, i hope i'm not turning into one of those parents.
Yeah, you might be one of them. :lame:
 

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It's interesting how many misconceptions parents have about what is/isn't good for medical school and what develops a good doctor. People presume so much.
But engineers do make better doctors than non-engineers...especially bio-medical engineers! haha I kid I kid
 

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In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "calling to help the sick". We're human - at the end of the day, we're the same selfish greedy bastards. No one goes into medicine to "help the sick" - we go into medicine to fulfill some personal goal/agenda, and we happen to help the sick as a coincidence.

You and I would be lying to ourselves if we kept on trying to convince each other that we're in this JUST to help people. At the end of the day, it's all about me. If I'm not happy, screw the sick, I'll find something that makes ME happy. And that's how we all are - whether we admit it or not.

Like most people on this thread, I'm very against parents who push their kids into something that will fulfill the parents' personal agenda/goal. In the end, it's only going to make their kid(s) hate them.
:thumbup:
well said
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "calling to help the sick". We're human - at the end of the day, we're the same selfish greedy bastards. No one goes into medicine to "help the sick" - we go into medicine to fulfill some personal goal/agenda, and we happen to help the sick as a coincidence.
perhaps not a coincidence so much as a co-established goal. I know I'm studying medicine because I do truly want to help people get well. But part of me also likes the idea of the decision-making process, the control (well, the idea of control) of being a physician, the education involved, the business aspect (I was a private small business owner once), and so on.

To think no one wants, as a goal, to see their patients get well is going a little far.
 

chanjurban

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ummm, no one has mentioned this much yet, but the new mom is just that... a new mom :rolleyes: . She has NO clue about raising children. right now she probably thinks that she's got this grand plan for her kid. But at this point, she's all talk. Kids have a way of following their own plans - starting from the minute they come home from the hospital. Your friend will probably tone down some of this talk after a little while. Let her enjoy her fantasies about her child's future. Just don't feed into it.

BTW - I've got a 5 yr old and a 2 month old and I've certainly learned the hard way that my kids have their own personalities and that I just have to roll with it. :D
 

neil100

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In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "calling to help the sick". We're human - at the end of the day, we're the same selfish greedy bastards. No one goes into medicine to "help the sick" - we go into medicine to fulfill some personal goal/agenda, and we happen to help the sick as a coincidence.

You and I would be lying to ourselves if we kept on trying to convince each other that we're in this JUST to help people. At the end of the day, it's all about me. I
f I'm not happy, screw the sick, I'll find something that makes ME happy. And that's how we all are - whether we admit it or not.

Like most people on this thread, I'm very against parents who push their kids into something that will fulfill the parents' personal agenda/goal. In the end, it's only going to make their kid(s) hate them.
Clearly you are a product of our unregulated capitalistic society. It's all about me me and me. It doesn't matter if you have to die at the expense of my happiness. Pursuit of happiness no matter what happens to your other fellow human beings. This is what we export. And then look at our economy and society now. Enough said.

Thank goodness for people who understand this like Obama.

And when you feel like that tell that to your attending. Your career will be over in a flash guaranteed. Especially if you talk to those doctors who actually care about people.
 

Samus Aran

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Clearly you are a product of our unregulated capitalistic society. It's all about me me and me. It doesn't matter if you have to die at the expense of my happiness. Pursuit of happiness no matter what happens to your other fellow human beings. This is what we export. And then look at our economy and society now. Enough said.

Thank goodness for people who understand this like Obama.

And when you feel like that tell that to your attending. Your career will be over in a flash guaranteed. Especially if you talk to those doctors who actually care about people.
:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 

Forthegood

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In my opinion, there's no such thing as a "calling to help the sick". We're human - at the end of the day, we're the same selfish greedy bastards. No one goes into medicine to "help the sick" - we go into medicine to fulfill some personal goal/agenda, and we happen to help the sick as a coincidence.
All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for enough good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

It is not about just helping the sick. It is about helping others, and using the gifts you have been given to leave this place better than when you got here. Do not question everyone else's motives because of your own. It is no coincidence we help the sick. Some of us are here because we see this as the way we can best help those around us. Of course, that is not the only reason, but if that were not the major reason I would be in research right now or teaching.

If I'm not happy, screw the sick, I'll find something that makes ME happy.
Good luck in medical school. Or internship. Or residency. Or practice. You are going to be very unhappy frequently for these patients you don't give a **** about.

Sorry Phospho, I do have a lot of respect for you. But this is one of those problems that really bugs me. No wonder people's opinions of us are waning. A casual reader may see something like this and think we have really lost what it means to be a profession. We are putting our patients first. That is the one tie that binds us all together as a profession. Losing that, we have lost the trust that is such a priveledge to recieve, and so critical to our work.
 

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A family friend had twin boys a few years back right before I entered med school. Thereafter, everytime I saw her and her boys, she'd point me out to her sons (who were toddlers) that I was a medical student will be a DOCTER. The last time I saw them, she had one of her boys come up to be to tell me he wanted to be a doctor too when he grew up. I wasn't sure if I should be amused or appalled.

I think this was the type of benign brainwashing many asian parents engage in to convince their kids to go into medicine. Most parents aren't going to give their kids ultimatums, what they do is to harp on the importance of becoming X profession and how great X profession is to everything else until the kid turns 18 and is "offered" the chance to pick a profession.

I am asian but I had a slightly weird route. I picked medicine as a career choice as part of a school project and my mom never let up on "my" choice from then on. She'd brag to her friends how I picked medicine as my future career (no convincing needed on her part!).

In college, when I told her I wasn't going to med school after all, she was disappointed but didn't fight me on that point. But then a few years later when I decided to do med school, she became my biggest supporter.

Now, even though I made the decision to do medicine on my own, I think part of that came from the subtle manipulation that my mother probably did during my high school days reminding me how wonderful being a doctor is. But that's all in the past. I think I made the right decision. I'm happy to be a doctor for the next 30years. And I think that's all that matters.
 

Random Anesthesiologist

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neil100

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All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for enough good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

It is not about just helping the sick. It is about helping others, and using the gifts you have been given to leave this place better than when you got here. Do not question everyone else's motives because of your own. It is no coincidence we help the sick. Some of us are here because we see this as the way we can best help those around us. Of course, that is not the only reason, but if that were not the major reason I would be in research right now or teaching.


Good luck in medical school. Or internship. Or residency. Or practice. You are going to be very unhappy frequently for these patients you don't give a **** about.

Sorry Phospho, I do have a lot of respect for you. But this is one of those problems that really bugs me. No wonder people's opinions of us are waning. A casual reader may see something like this and think we have really lost what it means to be a profession. We are putting our patients first. That is the one tie that binds us all together as a profession. Losing that, we have lost the trust that is such a priveledge to recieve, and so critical to our work.

:thumbup:. She is too emotional right now. She will realize the reality when she gets there.
 

phospho

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All that is necessary for evil to prevail is for enough good men to do nothing. -Edmund Burke

It is not about just helping the sick. It is about helping others, and using the gifts you have been given to leave this place better than when you got here. Do not question everyone else's motives because of your own. It is no coincidence we help the sick. Some of us are here because we see this as the way we can best help those around us. Of course, that is not the only reason, but if that were not the major reason I would be in research right now or teaching.


Good luck in medical school. Or internship. Or residency. Or practice. You are going to be very unhappy frequently for these patients you don't give a **** about.

Sorry Phospho, I do have a lot of respect for you. But this is one of those problems that really bugs me. No wonder people's opinions of us are waning. A casual reader may see something like this and think we have really lost what it means to be a profession. We are putting our patients first. That is the one tie that binds us all together as a profession. Losing that, we have lost the trust that is such a priveledge to recieve, and so critical to our work.
I may have been a bit too harsh in my post, but I guess my point was that none of us would be sacrificing almost 12+ years of our lives if there wasn't something that WE would personally gain. I'm not there to just help the patients - I get personal satisfaction from being there for the patients. It just irks me to read the posts of so many people who claim that they are in this profession for nothing but helping people. Then they're pissed when they become attendings because they're not getting the respect they think they deserve for "giving up so much". No one will give 12+ years of their life if there wasn't something in it for them.

Humans are generally motivated by greed. I think I'm somewhat of a cynical person, but I find it very hard to believe those people who claim they are the next Mother Teresa. We are all motivated by some personal goal - whether it's the challenge, the money, the (vanishing) autonomy, etc... Of course I'm in this for the patients - however, they aren't the biggest reason I'm doing this. I'm doing this for me. I want to be happy at the end of the day. I want to feel satisfied. If medicine wasn't going to be personally satisfying, I would not have gone into it. Does that make me selfish? Perhaps, but what is our goal in life? For me, it's happiness. I would be doing the patients a disfavor by going into medicine if medicine wasn't going to make me happy.

Sorry Phospho, I do have a lot of respect for you.
Thank you! likewise :)
 

phospho

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Clearly you are a product of our unregulated capitalistic society. It's all about me me and me. It doesn't matter if you have to die at the expense of my happiness. Pursuit of happiness no matter what happens to your other fellow human beings. This is what we export. And then look at our economy and society now. Enough said.

Thank goodness for people who understand this like Obama.

And when you feel like that tell that to your attending. Your career will be over in a flash guaranteed. Especially if you talk to those doctors who actually care about people.
:thumbup:. She is too emotional right now. She will realize the reality when she gets there.
:laugh:

Not sure why I'm even replying to your post, but aren't you that 19 year old premed who got put on probation a few weeks ago? Good job taking off the link to your mdapps ;)
 

OPPforlife

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wow neill 100 is a character...I must say I enjoy his posts though...just like I enjoy watching "rock of Love" and other AMAZING MTV shows.
 

neil100

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:laugh:

Not sure why I'm even replying to your post, but aren't you that 19 year old premed who got put on probation a few weeks ago? Good job taking off the link to your mdapps ;)
Correction. Med student. Get it right;). You are the pre-med here. As per your information.

Good to see that you are back in your usual plight.:cool:
 

neil100

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He's a troll who has messed up the SPF forums. Ignore him.
And this coming from a person who praised Dr. Tiller's death. The person who should be on ignore is mercapto.

Look at the SPF forums for proof.
 

cfdavid

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I really cringe whenever I see this and my own parents are just as guilty. Please share your experiences and insight and warning, this is a bit of a venting thread.

It is just scary that some parents so willingly push their kids into such serious careers, especially when the parents have no medical experience of their own and fixate on income. This friend I have behaves exactly like my father and fortunately for me, I decided that I am in love with medicine but for totally different reasons. I'm all for stimulating interest in kids, but the degree to which some parents go can have very detrimental effects on their children.

This friend (who works in banking and has no family members in the medical field) recently had a baby girl. Before the baby was born, she decided her baby will be a surgeon because they make so much money. My friend's parents wanted her to be a doctor but she opted not to and says now she regrets it. We had an in-depth discussion and she goes "Oh, I like EVERYTHING about medicine". I really doubt someone can accurately say that without even having ever shadowed a doctor. She says surgery is too easy and that even she could perform surgery...she never even had surgery done on herself with the exception of a few stitches. She says the surgical career will be a piece of cake. She plans to brainwash her daughter once her daughter can sit up by herself, buy her medical baby toys and plastic body parts. Again, I told her, this is all under the assumption that her baby will want to play with those items at all.

Her plans for her baby include making her skip at least 2 grades, play the violin professionally, and enter the medical scholars program. Somehow she had the misunderstanding that the med scholars programs mean you enter the MD program straight out of high school and finish the degree immediately. I clarified that "yes, you are technically accepted into medical school, but most programs have you complete about 3 years of undergrad and maintain a minimum GPA". She hasn't even done her research properly!

We are close friends but all she does is obsess over her baby and this is all she ever talks about! I try to have meaningful, friendly, and in depth conversations about the pros and cons and that this career is one someone really has to have the heart for, you truly are a servant, and if you don't you will be terribly terribly miserable. She literally says "How hard can it be?!", and my thoughts are "I wish you only knew". My dad had this same mentality, and to this day he feels he somehow pushed me into it and really beats himself up over it. He still sends me random presents in the mail because when he finally saw the hardships of medical school and how long the training years can be, measured up against the debt and final income...he realized this is definitely not the field for money but a field for the heart.

I just wish people realize the association they are making with money and quality of life and that they are not interchangeable. That aside, some people literally have their minds made up and even logic and statistics don't budge them. What is up with this?
It sounds like your friend has some serious issues.......
 

hal9000

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:confused::confused::confused:

Obama seems like a decent man (even though I don't agree with many of his policies), but this God-like worship of him is almost scary.
I too disagree with any form of God-like worship of mortal beings... but how is his comment God-like worship? :confused:
 

Cirrus83

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Oddly enough, a lot of really happy and accomplished people regret that they never became doctors :laugh: Of course since they never became doctors they get that luxury of the fantasy to regret.

That said I actually don't think there's anything wrong with nudging your kids towards one profession or another. The banker friend probably doesn't like banking all that much so it's more of a nudge away from banking and towards one of the few other guaranteed six figure careers.

So long as it's a nudge it's OK, because a sane person (aka the kid) should be able to tell their parents to back off if they really enjoy something else and don't care about medicine.