When should I apply????

[ThirdEye]

I'm applying this cycle

I'm pretty much banking on my MCAT score because of a low gpa. My ECs are strong (huge in research), and my letter writers are top notch.

I'm taking the MCAT on August 5th and expect to get an average at worst score. I already have every intention to retake it on Sept 3rd because I feel an extra month will do wonders.

So... Should I apply now with the LORs and Aug 5th MCAT pending or should I wait a little while to apply so I can indicate that I'm retaking it in September?

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[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Honestly wait. You have literally almost no chance to get in this cycle with a 2.8 gpa and your prognosis of obtaining a "average to below average mcat". Your attitude about taking no more classes is going to have to change. You have 3 routes which will help you now.
1. Retaking dismal grades to raise your gpa up through DO school grade replacement. Get it up to a 3.4+ and get a high mcat. Apply broadly to DO schools.
or
2. Post-bacc get your stats to a 3.0, score a mcat of 30+. Then apply to SMP's. Maintain a gpa of 3.7+ and apply after.
or
3. Apply for hard science masters programs. If you can maintain a high gpa 3.7+. Then you might have a chance to get into a DO or MD school.

I highly recommend either route 1 or 2, however route 3 offers the benifit of you having a degree you can fall back on if you fail to get into medical school. But yes, you're going to need to do something to boost or UGPA or show medical schools you can handle the curriculum. Think if you were a adcom. Why would they choose you with bad stats when they have plenty of people with literally perfect gpa's and amazing mcat's? So again, I highly recommend you to not apply this cycle and consider things hard.

Good luck.

 

[ThirdEye]

Thanks for the advice but I'm applying this cycle and seeking advice for this cycle. If I don't get in then I'll contine to work on the application and apply next year, but let's take it one step at a time. I'm a Texas resident and have a great chance with a good MCAT. I'm very nontraditional. I have a lot of Fs becaue I simply didn't care. I only recently decided on med school. My PS is great, trust me.

My prognosis was an average or slightly below average MCAT AT WORST for August 5th (meaning a possible GREAT score, but being modest!!!) September 3rd, I have no doubt I'll rock it.

 

[Mbeas]

My prognosis was an average or slightly below average MCAT AT WORST for August 5th (meaning a possible GREAT score, but being modest!!!) September 3rd, I have no doubt I'll rock it.

Well you are definitely confident, I'll give you that....

What makes you think that the MCAT is a piece of cake, that you are undoubtedly going to dominate like no one else has before? Is your practice average a 45? I'm just curious, because I don't think I've ever heard of anyone that is SO sure they are going to get a great score (or even an average score AT LEAST)

And as serenade stated, it is going to be very hard to get into an allopathic school with "a lot of F's", even with the great score that you are going to get.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Let me be clear. You have bad stats, your going to be applying for schools after your mcat in September comes back in October. Which is pretty late in the application season as most people who were diligent about getting in were verified in June or early July.

I'm sorry to say but you have no chance even with a 40 on the mcat.

The reason I'm telling you not to apply is for the following reasons.
1. You'll be a re-applicant next cycle, which means they will expect much more from you.
2. You'll waste major $'s this cycle.
3. You'll be wasting time during which you could be improving your application.

Finally your adcom's will not care about excuses, they want results. That will not care that you got a bunch of F's because you didn't care. They will see F's and scrutinize you to the full extent of their capacity to scrutinize.

 

[ThirdEye]

Well you are definitely confident, I'll give you that....

What makes you think that the MCAT is a piece of cake, that you are undoubtedly going to dominate like no one else has before? Is your practice average a 45? I'm just curious, because I don't think I've ever heard of anyone that is SO sure they are going to get a great score (or even an average score AT LEAST)

I never said it's a piece of cake but I am confident. It's only a matter of knowing everything, right? I only spoke out because I was misunderstood.

I retook Gen Chem 1, 2, and organic 1 all in the Spring of 09. And studied for the MCAT all through last summer and this summer. I've done a lot of work on the MCAT and when you have an understanding it's quite apparant.

 

[ThirdEye]

Let me be clear. You have bad stats, your going to be applying for schools after your mcat in September comes back in October. Which is pretty late in the application season as most people who were diligent about getting in were verified in June or early July.

I'm sorry to say but you have no chance even with a 40 on the mcat.

The reason I'm telling you not to apply is for the following reasons.
1. You'll be a re-applicant next cycle, which means they will expect much more from you.
2. You'll waste major $'s this cycle.
3. You'll be wasting time during which you could be improving your application.

Finally your adcom's will not care about excuses, they want results. That will not care that you got a bunch of F's because you didn't care. They will see F's and scrutinize you to the full extent of their capacity to scrutinize.

I'm done unnecessarily validating myself to you. Get out of my thread if you aren't going to answer my questions.

 

[sharksRfriends]

Hey, I'm not going to shoot you down here. If you are determined to apply, then do it. But be aware that by applying with an August/September MCAT and a low GPA, your chances are much worse than if you'd applied in June. Unless you have great stats, you need to be applying early. Generally, it is not recommended to apply simply as a test run. However, it's great that you feel confident about the MCAT. I wish I had! The most important thing now is that you have a fantastic personal statement, great LORs, unique extra-curriculars, and that you apply extremely broadly. If possible, apply to as many DO/MD schools as you can afford. Be prepared for what you will do if you do not get in this cycle. Will you re-take those classes that you did poorly in to replace grades? If you do well on the MCAT, raising your GPA definitely increases your chances. I will never tell someone that they stand zero chance of an acceptance, because people defy the odds sometimes. I'm not sure why you think the extra month will do wonders though. Statistics show that people who re-take the MCAT do not tend to do better, since their understanding of the material remains the same. I would think that you would need more than a month to prepare for a re-take but that is my personal opinion. Good luck.

 

[wanderer]

I'm taking the MCAT on August 5th and expect to get an average at worst score. I already have every intention to retake it on Sept 3rd because I feel an extra month will do wonders.

So... Should I apply now with the LORs and Aug 5th MCAT pending or should I wait a little while to apply so I can indicate that I'm retaking it in September?

First, you can't go in with the mindset thinking about taking the MCAT twice. From the sounds of it, you aren't even ready to take it in August.

Let me be clear. You have bad stats, your going to be applying for schools after your mcat in September comes back in October. Which is pretty late in the application season as most people who were diligent about getting in were verified in June or early July.

I'm sorry to say but you have no chance even with a 40 on the mcat.

The reason I'm telling you not to apply is for the following reasons.
1. You'll be a re-applicant next cycle, which means they will expect much more from you.
2. You'll waste major $'s this cycle.
3. You'll be wasting time during which you could be improving your application.

Finally your adcom's will not care about excuses, they want results. That will not care that you got a bunch of F's because you didn't care. They will see F's and scrutinize you to the full extent of their capacity to scrutinize.

I'm done unnecessarily validating myself to you. Get out of my thread if you aren't going to answer my questions.

You need to change your attitude. Stubbornness is not a good trait to have when it comes to the application process. The fact is a September completion with your GPA will pretty much sink your app. Even if the rest of your app is great you will be lucky to have even a couple of interviews (and those would be for WL spots). And from what I've heard about applying in Texas, September completions are even worse than September AMCAS completions.
TRUST ME, you don't want to go through this cycle twice.

 

[ThirdEye]

Thanks for the solid advice. I'm sending in my app this week.

 

[SoonerLuke]

If you take August 5th you won't have you score back til around September 5th, so how will you know if you need to retake on September 3rd?

 

[DoctorKazefa]

Thanks for the solid advice. I'm sending in my app this week.

I admire your enthusiasm!
Since you're clearly deadset on applying this cycle, apply broadly and write a fantastic PS. I hope things work out for you!

 

[ThirdEye]

If you take August 5th you won't have you score back til around September 5th, so how will you know if you need to retake on September 3rd?

Thanks for pointing this out because I do want to know my score first. I'll be signing up for the Sept 11th one immediately after August 5th.

 

[ThirdEye]

I admire your enthusiasm!
Since you're clearly deadset on applying this cycle, apply broadly and write a fantastic PS. I hope things work out for you!

Thank you for your encouragment and wishes! I hope you and everyone else here on SDN get what you deserve!

 

[mspeedwagon]

Apply this year since you are deadset on this, but at the end of the cycle come back to this post and you will appreciate it.

Applying through AMCAS in September with stellar stats is bad enough (my gf applied in September with a 4.0/32 and was waitlisted or rejected everywhere [NY resident]... at some interviews she was told outright she was interviewing for a waitlist spot at best). The following year she applied in June and was accepted almost everywhere she applied (except UC-Davis to which she applied as an OOS applicant and was waitlisted).

However, applying late in Texas is much worse than applying late via AMCAS. Given your stats, timing of application and wanting to apply this cycle, I would focus strongly on D.O. schools where applying super early, while still an advantage, is not that much of an advantage.

Either way, best of luck.

Let me be clear. You have bad stats, your going to be applying for schools after your mcat in September comes back in October. Which is pretty late in the application season as most people who were diligent about getting in were verified in June or early July.

I'm sorry to say but you have no chance even with a 40 on the mcat.

The reason I'm telling you not to apply is for the following reasons.
1. You'll be a re-applicant next cycle, which means they will expect much more from you.
2. You'll waste major $'s this cycle.
3. You'll be wasting time during which you could be improving your application.

Finally your adcom's will not care about excuses, they want results. That will not care that you got a bunch of F's because you didn't care. They will see F's and scrutinize you to the full extent of their capacity to scrutinize.

 

[ThirdEye]

Apply this year since you are deadset on this, but at the end of the cycle come back to this post and you will appreciate it.

Applying through AMCAS in September with stellar stats is bad enough (my gf applied in September with a 4.0/32 and was waitlisted or rejected everywhere [NY resident]... at some interviews she was told outright she was interviewing for a waitlist spot at best). The following year she applied in June and was accepted almost everywhere she applied (except UC-Davis to which she applied as an OOS applicant and was waitlisted).

However, applying late in Texas is much worse than applying late via AMCAS. Given your stats, timing of application and wanting to apply this cycle, I would focus strongly on D.O. schools where applying super early, while still an advantage, is not that much of an advantage.

Either way, best of luck.

Thank you. I'm definitely focusing on D.O.s, aside from Texas, and have no expectations. I did appreciate serenade's first post despite me explicitly saying, in my unedited post, that I was uninterested in talk about rasing my gpa, doing an SMP, post-bacc, et cetera. I let that slide! But coming back and telling me I have ZERO chance even with a 40 mcat is not something I'll ever appreciate. He has no business telling anyone that they have no chance. F - that guy

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Thank you. I'm definitely focusing on D.O.s, aside from Texas, and have no expectations. I did appreciate serenade's first post despite me explicitly saying, in my unedited post, that I was uninterested in talk about rasing my gpa, doing an SMP, post-bacc, et cetera. I let that slide! But coming back and telling me I have ZERO chance even with a 40 mcat is not something I'll ever appreciate. He has no business telling anyone that they have no chance. F - that guy

Goodness you seriously need an attitude adjustment. You're so stubborn that you're ignoring everyones advice and selectively cherry picking the stuff that reinforces your misguided beliefs. Oh and now you're pissed at me because I didn't kiss your ass and tell you you're the most qualified person and ready to apply? Dude I hope you get into medical school so that next year you don't have to come back here and demand others to stroke your ego!
Btw the reason I said 40 as a hyperbole to emphasis how dismal your chances are this year. You're the only person who actually took it at face value.

 

[mspeedwagon]

Now, now kids... let's be civil here. I'll serve as a moderator here.

Sernade's advice is good. You have a much better chance in a year than you do now. You are essentially limiting yourself applying now to schools like Rocky Vista or LMU (not that there is anything wrong with these programs) whereas next year you'd have a great shot in TX in-state. Also, no one can say you have a zero chance, though we all agree that your chances applying late with less than stellar stats are far from great (you can take a look at the AMCAS pdf that shows people admitted with your GPA/MCAT and you're well below the 20% mark... take into account that most of these people likely applied early, live in states like Alabama where these stats are ok or are URM/disadvantaged you are probably looking at closer to a less than 10% chance for an MD program. Your stats are below average for Texas in-state).

However, given that you are deadset on applying this year, focus on the lower to mid-tier DO schools and these will give you your best shot.

Sernades advice is great for the average pre-med that is willing to wait a year to put their best foot forward (someone like me that thinks that applying to start in 2012 vs 2013 not a big deal). For someone deadset on applying, I agree that his advice was not particularly useful. Though, I still love him.

Goodness you seriously need an attitude adjustment. You're so stubborn that you're ignoring everyones advice and selectively cherry picking the stuff that reinforces your misguided beliefs. Oh and now you're pissed at me because I didn't kiss your ass and tell you you're the most qualified person and ready to apply? Dude I hope you get into medical school so that next year you don't have to come back here and demand others to stroke your ego!
Btw the reason I said 40 as a hyperbole to emphasis how dismal your chances are this year. You're the only person who actually took it at face value.

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Luv ya 2 . But yah, LMU-DCOM is 3.4-3.6/25 if i'm correct. Which is still majorly above his stats.
I'll agree I'm being a bit insensitive right here and I'll apologize for that. But I can not stress how important it is to make sure that when you're applying that you be highly sure that you will get in somewhere. Applying for this semester is simply going to waste a lot of funds and have you put in a situation of even more scrutiny next cycle.
I know plenty of people who had scores like 3.7/30 who failed to get an acceptance due to being late. I also know people with 3.0/33-38's being unable to land an acceptance to a DO school and ended up having to do a masters program or a smp.

Simply being said, I'm just trying to tell you that applying this cycle will more then likely bring you nothing but disappointment. But like I said, there are methods of improving your app, but applying to a highly competitive system with bad stats is just not smart.

 

[ThirdEye]

Goodness you seriously need an attitude adjustment. You're so stubborn that you're ignoring everyones advice and selectively cherry picking the stuff that reinforces your misguided beliefs. Oh and now you're pissed at me because I didn't kiss your ass and tell you you're the most qualified person and ready to apply? Dude I hope you get into medical school so that next year you don't have to come back here and demand others to stroke your ego!
Btw the reason I said 40 as a hyperbole to emphasis how dismal your chances are this year. You're the only person who actually took it at face value.

Ego??? You're blowing things out of proportion. I specificly wanted advice on when to apply this year not to get my 2.8 gpa ego stroked. I've done plenty of reading on SDN. I know what can be done to improve a gpa.. That's why I had asked nicely for no advice on SMP's, postbaccs, yada yada yada.

You crossed the line by ignoring my request and then slaped me in the face by saying that I have zero chance. For the last time, GET OUT OF MY THREAD!

 

[DbDan]

Ego??? You're blowing things out of proportion. I specificly wanted advice on when to apply this year not to get my 2.8 gpa ego stroked. I've done plenty of reading on SDN. I know what can be done to improve a gpa.. That's why I had asked nicely for no advice on SMP's, postbaccs, yada yada yada.

You crossed the line by ignoring my request and then slaped me in the face by saying that I have zero chance. For the last time, GET OUT OF MY THREAD!

Speaking from experience, you don't have zero chance but you have very slim chances. Don't be stubborn, take his advice and get to work improving your GPA now. I'm speaking from experience there as well. I applied last year, my secondaries were complete in Sept-November. With a GPA of 2.8 and an MCAT of 33. Now I'm not sure what your expectations are on your MCAT but my practice tests (last 5) were between 37-39. The MCAT on test day is different than your practice tests. Yes, I also had a firm grasp on the material.

I got 2 interviews that ended in 2 waitlists. I did not interview poorly and have been told that my GPA was too low by both schools. They advised raising my GPA and applying again because my MCAT and ECs were fine. I didn't start raising my GPA until last spring. After two retaken courses I've now got a 3.0 sGPA and under a 3.0 cGPA, had I taken the advice of people on here and started retaking in FALL I would be well over a 3.0 and be a shoe-in for this cycle, not to mention it would have helped by sending GPA updates last cycle.

I'm not going to stroke your ego and tell you you have a great shot, fact of the matter is you don't. I'm saying from personal experience stop blowing off people's advice and start working on improvements now. Don't wait until you start getting rejections to realize you need to do so. I'm not going to tell you you don't have a shot but realize the likelihood is low applying that late with that GPA.

 

[A25A]

I don't think the OP is trying to come off as stubborn. If he's been around SDN long enough, he knows what other options are out there...

It's pretty obvious he's asking the question to either A) apply with MCAT score pending, or B) wait and apply with MCAT + intent to retake. "A" or "B." No other options or advice of waiting, retaking courses, etc. While I think he appreciates the extra advice, that's not what he asked. Like I said, you can find the same "advice" in other threads over and over again - there's no need to repeat yourself here...

Everyone knows someone who had x GPA and x MCAT and didn't get in, but the fact is that there are lots of cases where people do get in. Case in point: I know of someone who got in to an MD program without being invited for an interview, after acceptances had been sent. There are always exceptions, so to say he has zero chance is ridiculous.

At the end of the day, I say "A" - apply now.

 

[ThirdEye]

Thank you so much for your story. I'm very aware that I'm a huge underdog. I graduated with about 170 credits so my gpa is what it is. I may do an SMP but my decision to apply will be made in March. I'm not trying to be stubborn. I know what to do to raise my gpa so I wanted this thread to not pertain to advice on raising my gpa. Aparantly that's too much to ask for. I really do appreciate hearing about your situation! I hope you get what you deserve, DbDan!

 

[ThirdEye]

I don't think the OP is trying to come off as stubborn. If he's been around SDN long enough, he knows what other options are out there...

It's pretty obvious he's asking the question to either A) apply with MCAT score pending, or B) wait and applyThank you so much for your story. I'm very aware that I'm a huge underdog. I graduated with about 170 credits so my gpa is what it is. I may do an SMP but my decision to apply will be made in March. I'm not trying to be stubborn. I know what to do to raise my gpa so I wanted this thread to not pertain to advice on raising my gpa. Aparantly that's too much to ask for. I really do appreciate hearing about your situation! I hope you get what you deserve, DbDan! with MCAT + intent to retake. "A" or "B." No other options or advice of waiting, retaking courses, etc. While I think he appreciates the extra advice, that's not what he asked. Like I said, you can find the same "advice" in other threads over and over again - there's no need to repeat yourself here...

Everyone knows someone who had x GPA and x MCAT and didn't get in, but the fact is that there are lots of cases where people do get in. Case in point: I know of someone who got in to an MD program without being invited for an interview, after acceptances had been sent. There are always exceptions, so to say he has zero chance is ridiculous.

At the end of the day, I say "A" - apply now.

Thank you!

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

Never in your post did you ever ask for people to not tell you how to improve your gpa. Whatever, good luck with your application season.

 

[ThirdEye]

Never in your post did you ever ask for people to not tell you how to improve your gpa. Whatever, good luck with your application season.

It was clearly stated in my original unedited post. I edited to throw out my irrelevant gpa to prevent related advice further, but you had already responded.

You know this very well!

Still, redundant info doesn't bother me. It's just frustrating.

What did bother me were your insults.... And now your false claims.

 

[DbDan]

It was clearly stated in my original unedited post. I edited to throw out my irrelevant gpa to prevent related advice further, but you had already responded.

You know this very well!

Still, redundant info doesn't bother me. It's just frustrating.

What did bother me were your insults.... And now your false claims.

I just perused the initial post because I could tell it had been editted and didn't see the end. I'd submit now if you are set on applying this cycle (though it seems like you may already have). I'd still recommend doing things to constantly improve throughout the time of this cycle, whether its class or volunteering or whatever you feel is necessary. Be persistent with the schools that you want to attend too. Send them updates whenever you have something significant or new to report (new job, new activities, new volunteering, shadowing, LOR, etc.) and be sure to mention that you do want to attend the program. Just be aware that if it doesn't work out this year you will need to have major changes in your application for next year.

BTW, our grades are even more similar, I graduated with 160 units. AACOMAS's grade replacement works wonders. I've raised from 2.76 -> 2.97 and after summer 3.02 for my sGPA (~95 science units) with just 3 courses changing a C, C-, C+ to A,A,A. You can move it more than you think, focus on the science GPA, ignore the other it will follow just slowly.

Not trying to beat a dead horse I just don't want someone to follow in my exact path if I can help it Good luck and thank you for the good vibes hopefully I'll be more successful this year

 

[ThirdEye]

I just perused the initial post because I could tell it had been editted and didn't see the end. I'd submit now if you are set on applying this cycle (though it seems like you may already have). I'd still recommend doing things to constantly improve throughout the time of this cycle, whether its class or volunteering or whatever you feel is necessary. Be persistent with the schools that you want to attend too. Send them updates whenever you have something significant or new to report (new job, new activities, new volunteering, shadowing, LOR, etc.) and be sure to mention that you do want to attend the program. Just be aware that if it doesn't work out this year you will need to have major changes in your application for next year.

BTW, our grades are even more similar, I graduated with 160 units. AACOMAS's grade replacement works wonders. I've raised from 2.76 -> 2.97 and after summer 3.02 for my sGPA (~95 science units) with just 3 courses changing a C, C-, C+ to A,A,A. You can move it more than you think, focus on the science GPA, ignore the other it will follow just slowly.

Not trying to beat a dead horse I just don't want someone to follow in my exact path if I can help it Good luck and thank you for the good vibes hopefully I'll be more successful this year

Good stuff! I hadn't thought about updating schools on my progress and will definitely let them know I mean business. I also haven't worked out the AACOMAS's grade replacement, but it should push me above a 3.0 as well! That should help a lot.