When the Boards change to Pass/Fail...What happens exactly?

Apr 4, 2010
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I have heard that by 2012 the boards will be pass/fail.

But in replace of this there will be a GRE test. What will this exam cover? Will it be written by the same people that wrote the NBDE? Any source of info on this subject?
 

Andrew324

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Do you know what the GRE is?
 
Apr 4, 2010
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Do you know what the GRE is?
You mean it's just the regular GRE? That's what they are going to replace it with?

Just the regular graduate school GRE? What does that have to do with all of the things we learn in the first two years of dental school? The boards are more applicable...they are dental related.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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To clarify, I'm talking about NBDE part I will be pass/fail. There has to be a substitute for residency applicants. Some other way to see how competitive they are on a national level. Are you saying it's a regular GRE? The GRE that undergraduates take?

Then why don't they just use our DAT scores for residency programs?
 
Mar 21, 2010
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What!?!??! we have to take GRE test?? are you sure?
What are the subjects that are covered in GRE? I wish it's math heavy :)
 
Apr 4, 2010
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I'm not sure, I have no clue. I think it's a variation of the GRE. But what's on this test? That's what I wanna know. & no math...math is lame! jk :D If I could choose, it would be all organic chemistry!
 
May 21, 2009
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many programs already use the GRE (ie. some ortho programs). it will be the regular GRE if they are instituting the GRE.
 

seifall5

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Aren't they throwing in there a specialty exam on top of the P/F boards? That's what I was aware of. Using the GRE is pretty reasonable though, imho.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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Aren't they throwing in there a specialty exam on top of the P/F boards? That's what I was aware of. Using the GRE is pretty reasonable though, imho.
I googled the GRE and it is Math, Verbal, and Writing. This helps one to see your basic skills. But after a few years of dental school, no math, no english courses...we all get a little rusty in these subjects right? Why focus on these skills? Why not test our sciences? Anatomy, Biochem, Micro...the stuff we are learning in dental school.
 

DrReo

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I have heard that by 2012 the boards will be pass/fail.

But in replace of this there will be a GRE test. What will this exam cover? Will it be written by the same people that wrote the NBDE? Any source of info on this subject?
Oral surgery programs are considering using a similar version off of the USMLE part I if/when the boards go pass fail. Simply another hoop to jump through.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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Oral surgery programs are considering using a similar version off of the USMLE part I if/when the boards go pass fail. Simply another hoop to jump through.
Thank you for the info. So is everything as of right now just speculation?
 

DrReo

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PandaXpress

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Yes, according to one of the ADEA seminars.

W000t made the cutoff. I take NBDE 1 in 2011. YAY! wow i dodged that bullet. I cant imagine a test on english and math. I dislike both those subject with a passion. And USMLE, omg, I would NOT want to take that.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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W000t made the cutoff. I take NBDE 1 in 2011. YAY! wow i dodged that bullet. I cant imagine a test on english and math. I dislike both those subject with a passion. And USMLE, omg, I would NOT want to take that.

Not so fast :D
You take it in 2011 (as a D1), you are class of 2014
Someone else at another dental school (BOB) takes pass/fail boards in 2012 (as a D2), he is class of 2014
You both apply to an ortho residency in 2013 (both D3)
Ortho residency says..."Well BOB and Panda didn't take the same exam...we should make BOB and Panda BOTH take the GRE. The idea of a standardized exam is that EVERY applicant takes the same exam."

That's like you saying...I'll take the DAT, you take the GRE and we'll both apply to the same school. How is that standardized?

I obviously have no clue how this works, It's just my wild crazy guess.
 
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GRE for residency ???:eek: where do you guys get these stuff? How does that that gonna determine who is qualified to study Ortho/Pedo/OMS etc....?????
 
Nov 5, 2009
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I was under the impression that it will be just like boards have been, but instead of a score you get a P or an F. I guess if you want to specialize, you'd better start doing some research or ECs or something. Oh, and Panda and I will be taking them in 2011 as a 2nd year. Not sure how it will affect us...
 

dl9006

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wow this is ******ed...

so in the end, we have to write 2 standardized exams instead of one. what a great deal...

what's the point of making the board exam p/f if you're just going to use another standardized exam(one that may not even be related to dentistry) as a measuring stick? why does it bother the Boards authority that residency programs use the Boards as a measuring tool?
just keep board as it is and save us the pain of writing 2 dif exams...




GRE seems like such a random test to use...
might as well make us take the MCAT instead
 
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May 21, 2009
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wow this is ******ed...

so in the end, we have to write 2 standardized exams instead of one. what a great deal...

what's the point of making the board exam p/f if you're just going to use another standardized exam(one that may not even be related to dentistry) as a measuring stick? just keep board as it is and save us the pain of writing 2 dif exams...


GRE seems like such a random test to use...
might as well make us take the MCAT instead

standardized testing is a multimillion dollar industry thats why.
 

dentalWorks

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This is the stupidest thing theyr making dental students go through. GRE??? are you serious??? I mean for OMFS I totally underestand the USMLE thing, cause a dual-degree OMFS programs will requires you to pass USMLE1 and 2.... It will actually be good cause once you do well on it, its going to better prepare you for the actual USMLE

But the GRE... goddddd....There are things in that test that some people just can't get good at (example = verbal, God I hate that section). great so you could be a top student in your class, rock your science portion of the GRE, but if you bomb the verbal (god bless it), you will lose any chance of getting into an Ortho or Pedo or whatever program.

Aside from the bussiness aspect of things. What exactly is the reason they switched to pass/fail on NBDE? I mean it ALWAYS was pass/fail, just before they gave you a %-age of how well you passed. Why remove this nice feature?
 
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Atticus

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Take this with a grain of salt (because honestly, I am too lazy to go back and search where I read it), but I heard that when they switch boards to P/F they are going to have individual specialty exams for the type of program you are applying to, not the GRE. I read this on the specialty dental subforum.
 
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Take this with a grain of salt (because honestly, I am too lazy to go back and search where I read it), but I heard that when they switch boards to P/F they are going to have individual specialty exams for the type of program you are applying to, not the GRE. I read this on the specialty dental subforum.
Exactly what I heard from the vice dean at my NYU interview. However, he did say nothing is certain as of yet.
 

dentalWorks

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Take this with a grain of salt (because honestly, I am too lazy to go back and search where I read it), but I heard that when they switch boards to P/F they are going to have individual specialty exams for the type of program you are applying to, not the GRE. I read this on the specialty dental subforum.
lmao, I heard that too and laughed back then... So they are going to introduce 9 new "individual specialty" exams? I don't think this will happen because only a few specialties are somewhat popular (OMFS and Ortho), the other ones are not as popular so you woun't have too many people taking them, so why create this whole brand new test for just a few?

I think theyr going to go with the GRE thing. Its easy for them, its available, and for those of us who will want to specialize, we have to go along with it or sit down and do nothing about it. People looking to specialize are so powerless
 

Atticus

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lmao, I heard that too and laughed back then... So they are going to introduce 9 new "individual specialty" exams? I don't think this will happen because only a few specialties are somewhat popular (OMFS and Ortho), the other ones are not as popular so you woun't have too many people taking them, so why create this whole brand new test for just a few?

I think theyr going to go with the GRE thing. Its easy for them, its available, and for those of us who will want to specialize, we have to go along with it or sit down and do nothing about it. People looking to specialize are so powerless
? dude(tte?), a lot crazier of things have happened. Also, saying that only "a few" specialties are "somewhat popular" is a bit disconnected with reality. While some specialties are more competitive than others, they are all competitive to match into. Hop on the residency forum and look at applicant's board scores and class rank for different specialties they are applying to and I think your opinion will change.
 

dentalWorks

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? dude(tte?), a lot crazier of things have happened. Also, saying that only "a few" specialties are "somewhat popular" is a bit disconnected with reality. While some specialties are more competitive than others, they are all competitive to match into. Hop on the residency forum and look at applicant's board scores and class rank for different specialties they are applying to and I think your opinion will change.
Before you go around calling people "disconnected [from] reality" underestand that I NEVER said anything about which program is more competitive than another. I said some programs are more popular than others.... meaning more people try to get into them or rank them first in thier matching list. That has NOTHING to do with which is more competitive than others. I don't have data infront of me, but I can tell you right now, more dental graduates wanna go into ortho than ANY other dental specialty

Also your suggesting to "hop on the residency forum and look at the applicant's board scores" ??? are you serious about this? You do realize that only a minority number of dental students participate in SDN, I hope for your sake your don't look at people's stats on SDN and assume thats always the norm
 

Atticus

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Before you go around calling people "disconnected [from] reality" underestand that I NEVER said anything about which program is more competitive than another. I said some programs are more popular than others.... meaning more people try to get into them or rank them first in thier matching list. That has NOTHING to do with which is more competitive than others. I don't have data infront of me, but I can tell you right now, more dental graduates wanna go into ortho than ANY other dental specialty

Also your suggesting to "hop on the residency forum and look at the applicant's board scores" ??? are you serious about this? You do realize that only a minority number of dental students participate in SDN, I hope for your sake your don't look at people's stats on SDN and assume thats always the norm
ehh ok. you win. good job.

I wasn't saying that you were disconnected with reality-- your statement was (and still is). You directly stated that OMFS and Ortho were only "somewhat" competitive, and implied that the rest aren't really competitive.

And yes, I am aware that SDN is a relatively small sample size... I just said that so you can look and see people that DON'T match and examine their relative board scores and class number... sheesh.

sorry if I offended you.
 
Apr 4, 2010
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this has been discussed and speculated upon ad naseum in several other threads already. the ADA is creating a new post-graduate placement exam that will likely be implemented around the time NBDE goes P/F:

http://www.ada.org/news/523.aspx
I must be the world's worst thread searcher because I couldn't find any good threads on it. Thank you for your helpful resource. It's exactly what I was looking for when I posted this. Thanks!:D
 

dentalWorks

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This was my favorit part:

"Res. 56H calls for the task force to survey the existing postgraduate programs and develop a detailed business plan with options for funding to include subsidization by the existing dental specialties"

This is probably thier way of saying "We are eventually going to resort to just using the GRE" lmao
 

McSexyDDS

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not sure how it works but a dentist i know who had been practicing for about 8 years didn't do so hot on his boards but wanted to get into pedo, so he took the GRE and well he finished his pedo residency last year, so some how the GRE ties into it already.
 

dentalWorks

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Here's the data:

http://www.natmatch.com/dentres/sumstats.htm

I guess Endo and Prosth don't participate, but PED had the most people apply.
Yes for the 2010, but if you look at the 2006-2009, more people were applying to ortho.

I am actually very surprised that PED surpased Ortho this year. and not by little either, almost a 100 people more.

This is a really nice mathlist site
 

K Niner

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I would like to vote for no GRE. K, thanks.

GRE verbal is ******ed anyway. A bunch of vocabulary words that most people don't know... what does that have to do with your intelligence?
 

dentalWorks

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I would like to vote for no GRE. K, thanks.

GRE verbal is ******ed anyway. A bunch of vocabulary words that most people don't know... what does that have to do with your intelligence?
while we are complaining, I would like to complain with you (even tho no one will listen to us).... Don't forget the reading portion of the verbal. You gotta read these gawd awful passages and answer "tone" type questions (I suck soooo bad at these)
 

srb711

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I am actually very surprised that PED surpased Ortho this year. and not by little either, almost a 100 people more
No kidding, I would have never guessed this....
 
Apr 4, 2010
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I would do mediocre or poor on the GRE because I didn't pay attention in high school, didn't do well on the SATs. All those years of learning to read into passages, learning vocab words....I just ignored them and thought..I'll never use this. :laugh:
 

PandaXpress

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Not so fast :D
You take it in 2011 (as a D1), you are class of 2014
Someone else at another dental school (BOB) takes pass/fail boards in 2012 (as a D2), he is class of 2014
You both apply to an ortho residency in 2013 (both D3)
Ortho residency says..."Well BOB and Panda didn't take the same exam...we should make BOB and Panda BOTH take the GRE. The idea of a standardized exam is that EVERY applicant takes the same exam."

That's like you saying...I'll take the DAT, you take the GRE and we'll both apply to the same school. How is that standardized?

I obviously have no clue how this works, It's just my wild crazy guess.
im the class of 2013...