When to reach out to mentors for help getting interviews?

[alex.jl1994]

Hey guys, I'm applying to ophtho this year and 40% of interviews invites have already come out... and I have only 1. I'm starting to wonder if I should contact my letter writers to ask if they could call around to reconsider my app for interviews--anyone have experience as to when I should do this? Now while interviews are still being released or later (but then if all spots are gone, even calls probably won't help). Stats below:

Top tier school
Step 1: 250+
Grades: All honors
# pubs: 8

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[Tenk]

It’s October. Chill.

 

[The wise one]

What are you applying to?

Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk

 

[alex.jl1994]

Ophthalmology, where our apps were due Sept 1 and almost half of interview invites are already out.

 

[GoSpursGo]

Talk to your mentors and see what they think. At this point it's at least reasonable to ask the question IMO.

 

[FalconSlice]

Talk to your mentors and see what they think. At this point it's at least reasonable to ask the question IMO.

It’s October. Chill.

I agree with the former and disagree with the latter. People say "chill it's early" and then, overnight, it's "too late." I am not familiar with ophtho number of applicants per year, spots, etc. But in several other highly competitive specialties, the number of interview invites dwindle after the first round or two of invite emails. Clearly there is a strong correlation between number of interview invites and successfully matching. I would talk to my mentors at this time if I were you.

 

[alex.jl1994]

Talk to your mentors and see what they think. At this point it's at least reasonable to ask the question IMO.

I agree with the former and disagree with the latter. People say "chill it's early" and then, overnight, it's "too late." I am not familiar with ophtho number of applicants per year, spots, etc. But in several other highly competitive specialties, the number of interview invites dwindle after the first round or two of invite emails. Clearly there is a strong correlation between number of interview invites and successfully matching. I would talk to my mentors at this time if I were you.

Thank you both for your input. I'm going to reach out to my mentors and see if they might be able to help me figure out what's going on.

 

[stickgirl390]

It’s October. Chill.

I wouldn’t “chill” on something that would impact your future this drastically. If 40% of interviews isn’t enough to start initiating proactive measures, when is?

 

[7331poas]

It’s October. Chill.

Why comment if you aren't familiar with ophtho?

I swear people just hop onto this forum to be deliberately dismissive

 

[Tenk]

The only time this will probably make a difference in a competitive specialty is if you’re being yield protected based on geography.

Let’s say op is from Florida. They lived their whole life in Florida and are in a medical school in Florida. Then they apply for residency in Michigan. While people do spread out, PDs also like to have residents who they know are happy in their program so they don’t have to deal with drama and such. Thus, they’d probably take someone from the Midwest with lower scores than Florida boy since it’s a sellers market and they can basically choose whoever they want. Now, let’s say Florida boy knows an attending who trained with Michigan PD. He calls him one day and says: “yo, you need to give my dog Florida boy an invite, he ****ing loves snow. He’s dying to just freeze his ass off for 6 months of the year.” Michigan PD might be shocked to hear this and give you a legit invite and actually rank you decently knowing that you won’t constantly bitch and moan every day about how damn cold it is for several years in a row. This is an example of the PD yield protecting their interview spots based on geography. Happens a lot actually, particularly in programs that are in “less desirable” locations.

Op, if you have a situation like that, sure go for it, it might make a difference. But having someone who went to Harvard email the PD at Harvard isn’t going to make you match at Harvard. Even if you get an interview there, you are going at the bottom of the list probably and their match list will end at the top whatever spots they have + a few. Just a fact, sorry. Maybe at some spot in nowheresville (which hopefully you applied for) but not at any big university where the PDs have god mode status.

So yeah, I’d personally just chill but I also have no idea what your application looks like or how many programs you applied to so who knows, maybe you should be panicking?

 

[GoSpursGo]

The only time this will probably make a difference in a competitive specialty is if you’re being yield protected based on geography.

Let’s say op is from Florida. They lived their whole life in Florida and are in a medical school in Florida. Then they apply for residency in Michigan. While people do spread out, PDs also like to have residents who they know are happy in their program so they don’t have to deal with drama and such. Thus, they’d probably take someone from the Midwest with lower scores than Florida boy since it’s a sellers market and they can basically choose whoever they want. Now, let’s say Florida boy knows an attending who trained with Michigan PD. He calls him one day and says: “yo, you need to give my dog Florida boy an invite, he ****ing loves snow. He’s dying to just freeze his ass off for 6 months of the year.” Michigan PD might be shocked to hear this and give you a legit invite and actually rank you decently knowing that you won’t constantly bitch and moan every day about how damn cold it is for several years in a row. This is an example of the PD yield protecting their interview spots based on geography. Happens a lot actually, particularly in programs that are in “less desirable” locations.

Op, if you have a situation like that, sure go for it, it might make a difference. But having someone who went to Harvard email the PD at Harvard isn’t going to make you match at Harvard. Even if you get an interview there, you are going at the bottom of the list probably and their match list will end at the top whatever spots they have + a few. Just a fact, sorry. Maybe at some spot in nowheresville (which hopefully you applied for) but not at any big university where the PDs have god mode status.

So yeah, I’d personally just chill but I also have no idea what your application looks like or how many programs you applied to so who knows, maybe you should be panicking?

I mean, true enough about Harvard, but your yield may be higher at more middle/low tier programs, which hopefully the OP applied to. Whether it will work, a lot has to do with who the mentor is, how well they know people at the programs the OP is targeting, and how specific they can be about the OP.

 

[Tenk]

I mean, true enough about Harvard, but your yield may be higher at more middle/low tier programs, which hopefully the OP applied to. Whether it will work, a lot has to do with who the mentor is, how well they know people at the programs the OP is targeting, and how specific they can be about the OP.

Yeah, ultimately without specific details it’s hard to gauge.

 

[Tenk]

Why comment if you aren't familiar with ophtho?

I swear people just hop onto this forum to be deliberately dismissive

It’s day 3 of invites. I’ll bet you $20 that op gets at least 2 more interviews before Oct 26th.

 

[GoSpursGo]

It’s day 3 of invites. I’ll bet you $20 that op gets at least 2 more interviews before Oct 26th.

I think you missed this post:

Ophthalmology, where our apps were due Sept 1 and almost half of interview invites are already out.

Assuming that interviews have been coming out throughout September (and it seemingly would have to be the case if 40% of interviews have been offered), now seems like the right time to reach out. Obviously, details would matter to know whether doing so is likely to help.

 

[Tenk]

I think you missed this post:

Assuming that interviews have been coming out throughout September (and it seemingly would have to be the case if 40% of interviews have been offered), now seems like the right time to reach out. Obviously, details would matter to know whether doing so is likely to help.

Na, ophtho has it’s own system. I think this is what creates the extra stress. As you can see, interview invites only started two days ago:

https://aamc-orange.global.ssl.fastly.net/production/media/filer_public/97/73/97736896-1b69-4ee4-9a1e-7c1cda8c4635/aupo-sfmatch-timeline-2021.pdf

 

[alex.jl1994]

In response to all of the above:

Geography: I applied to programs throughout the country, but with plenty of programs in regions where I have ties (college, med school, or family). My school's in the NE, so I understand yield-protection from programs in other regions where I don't have ties (South, Midwest, West coast), but several programs in my own region and my own state have passed over me for invites.

Program tiers: I applied pretty broadly and actually more broadly than advised by my advisors. My advisors told me to target top/middle tier schools because lower tier schools might assume that I wouldn't be seriously interested, but I applied to all 3 tiers pretty evenly. The one program I have received an invite from so far is maybe upper-middle tier (ranked 25-35).

Timing: While it's true that it's only a few days into the invite season, we have a spreadsheet that applicants have been updating with interview invite dates and # of spots left. Based on the spreadsheet, 43% of all programs have released at least some or all of their invites (with some now showing 0 spots left in our online interview scheduler).

I really appreciate the discussion and advice. Will try to keep this thread updated in case future applicants come upon it.

 

[Tenk]

In response to all of the above:

Geography: I applied to programs throughout the country, but with plenty of programs in regions where I have ties (college, med school, or family). My school's in the NE, so I understand yield-protection from programs in other regions where I don't have ties (South, Midwest, West coast), but several programs in my own region and my own state have passed over me for invites.

Program tiers: I applied pretty broadly and actually more broadly than advised by my advisors. My advisors told me to target top/middle tier schools because lower tier schools might assume that I wouldn't be seriously interested, but I applied to all 3 tiers pretty evenly. The one program I have received an invite from so far is maybe upper-middle tier (ranked 25-35).

Timing: While it's true that it's only a few days into the invite season, we have a spreadsheet that applicants have been updating with interview invite dates and # of spots left. Based on the spreadsheet, 43% of all programs have released at least some or all of their invites (with some now showing 0 spots left in our online interview scheduler).

I really appreciate the discussion and advice. Will try to keep this thread updated in case future applicants come upon it.

Yeah, assuming you have no red flags that seems a bit odd. It is an unusual year though. It’s good you did apply broadly. If anyone you know has ties to lower tier programs or programs in different geographical regions you may want to hit them up next week. Good luck though, I’m still hoping you get some more invites this coming week.

 

[Cauchy]

I'm applying ophtho this year too. There's still movement happening among the schools that have already released interviews, even when the spreadsheet says there's no spots left. Several schools either had second waves of interviews today or released interviews that had been declined by other applicants. It sounds like you should be just fine based on your stats.

 

[Eye-eye]

There will be lots of second waves, top tier schools haven't released yet, and your scores are top notch. Never hurts to reach out to mentors, but I also wouldn't worry. Non-top tier programs also may not offer you an II in their first wave if they think you'll probably just stay where you are or go to a top 20 school, but they may offer in next wave or if you were to reach out to their PC or PD to explain why you'd really love to go there (if it's a good reason).

 

[alex.jl1994]

When to start doing this for IM? (assuming this happens in November)

inb4 'sdn neuroticism etc'

OP here. For what it's worth, my mentor was very happy to reach out to programs on my behalf after I explained that the first major wave of interview invites had already gone out and thought the timing was appropriate (earlier rather than too late).

 

[Nfish1]

With your stats, and publications do you think there is something in your application that is holding you back, i feel like one interview is too low for someone of your caliber? You have the backing of a top tier school, maybe look into you application see if there is a weak spot. Therefore when your mentor reaches out on behalf of you he can address that weak spot in your application? How were your 3rd year grades?

 

[Cauchy]

For what it's worth, I agree with the above poster. With your pubs, scores, and school rank, I'd be expecting somewhere around 10 interviews at this point. Is there a possibility of a less than stellar LOR? Or have your interviews picked up at this point? Best of luck regardless!

 

[alex.jl1994]

In response to both of the above: I guess it's possible that one of my LORs wasn't good despite being told by my letter writers that they'd write strong letters, but I would never be able to tell since we can't see those or ask about them. I'll update my original post, but all of my grades in clerkships were honors.

Regardless, thanks for the encouragement guys

 

[Eye-eye]

A lot of top schools haven't released. There are quite a few people on the discord chat with similar stats and less interviews than I'd expect, but a lot of top programs are still waiting to send out IIs. I wouldn't be too worried, though I do agree that getting mentors to reach out never hurts.

 

[alex.jl1994]

Update: I'm at 6 interviews right now (for those who might be interested, 4 at top 20s). Based on the self-reported spreadsheet amongst ophtho applicants, current median is 7 interviews with a SD of 5. Feeling better than before, although my mentors mentioned that they thought I would be at a higher number of invites. This cycle's been weird--I've heard from friends and from other applicants on the ophtho discord chat that a lot of applicants are getting much fewer invites than they or their mentors expected. Hopefully the average number of invites to match this year is lower than in previous years (10ish in previous years I think).

 

[Frogger27]

Update: I'm at 6 interviews right now (for those who might be interested, 4 at top 20s). Based on the self-reported spreadsheet amongst ophtho applicants, current median is 7 interviews with a SD of 5. Feeling better than before, although my mentors mentioned that they thought I would be at a higher number of invites. This cycle's been weird--I've heard from friends and from other applicants on the ophtho discord chat that a lot of applicants are getting much fewer invites than they or their mentors expected. Hopefully the average number of invites to match this year is lower than in previous years (10ish in previous years I think).

Congrats- It seems like you are on a good track to get enough interviews to match. Focus on knocking the ones you have out of the park.

Did you have your mentor reach out and did it yield any interviews?

 

[alex.jl1994]

I did ask my mentor to reach out and it was definitely helpful--two programs at the top of my list that had previously passed me over ended up giving me invites.

 

[Redpancreas]

Hey guys, I'm applying to ophtho this year and 40% of interviews invites have already come out... and I have only 1. I'm starting to wonder if I should contact my letter writers to ask if they could call around to reconsider my app for interviews--anyone have experience as to when I should do this? Now while interviews are still being released or later (but then if all spots are gone, even calls probably won't help). Stats below:

Top tier school
Step 1: 250+
Grades: All honors
# pubs: 8

This is a good question, and not neurotic in the slightest since per your description Ophthalmology seems to be quick on the interview invites relative to the fields the rest of us are applying to and COVID-19 puts us all in a different situation.

In past years, applicants were advised to weight until November (review of ERAS started September 15th if I'm not mistaken) before sending out official Letters of Interest or having mentors call places. Now with the pandemic on our hands interviews selections will be a little later than usual, but PDs are trying to go fast. I would say you wait until November 1st-15th, and then start having your places reach out. I know for other fields, many competitive places have not even sent out interviews yet citing the necessity of a holistic review so that could be why you're not hearing from many places if you applied to competitive places for the most poart. Also, as I am sure you're doing, note any places that request you not reach out to them.

 

[alex.jl1994]

This is a good question, and not neurotic in the slightest since per your description Ophthalmology seems to be quick on the interview invites relative to the fields the rest of us are applying to and COVID-19 puts us all in a different situation.

In past years, applicants were advised to weight until November (review of ERAS started September 15th if I'm not mistaken) before sending out official Letters of Interest or having mentors call places. Now with the pandemic on our hands interviews selections will be a little later than usual, but PDs are trying to go fast. I would say you wait until November 1st-15th, and then start having your places reach out. I know for other fields, many competitive places have not even sent out interviews yet citing the necessity of a holistic review so that could be why you're not hearing from many places if you applied to competitive places for the most poart. Also, as I am sure you're doing, note any places that request you not reach out to them.

Thanks for the response! Ophtho actually has its own application and timeline, so things were a little earlier and I've actually already asked my mentors to reach out to a few places.

 

[alex.jl1994]

Update since the interview cycle is winding down: Ended up with 14 interviews (7 top 20). They definitely came in more slowly than for some of my peers, but ended up with a number I'm happy with (ranking/match day is still going to be stressful of course).

For those who find this thread in the future because they haven't gotten as many interviews, I highly recommend reaching out to all of the resources available to you early on, including having mentors and PD reach out if they offer to and writing letters of interest to a few programs. Having my mentors reach out to programs helped me get a few invites at programs where I really wanted to interview. I know LOIs are controversial, but I got one interview right after sending an LOI.

 

[Redpancreas]

Update since the interview cycle is winding down: Ended up with 14 interviews (7 top 20). They definitely came in more slowly than for some of my peers, but ended up with a number I'm happy with (ranking/match day is still going to be stressful of course).

For those who find this thread in the future because they haven't gotten as many interviews, I highly recommend reaching out to all of the resources available to you early on, including having mentors and PD reach out if they offer to and writing letters of interest to a few programs. Having my mentors reach out to programs helped me get a few invites at programs where I really wanted to interview. I know LOIs are controversial, but I got one interview right after sending an LOI.

Doing LOIs is not controversial and I think everyone does them because there's really no downside or major time investment. I think what's controversial is whether or not they are the reason you ultimately get the interview as its a big confirmation bias when you send an LOI and you get an interview. People who get the interviews get all ecstatic and swear by them. The ones who it didn't work for don't really complain as much because it wasn't like they did a whole lot to send them. All it takes for one happy person telling 100 people their LOI worked for everyone to think they work. To anyone reading, please write the LOI if it's been at least 3-4 weeks since certification, they can only help!

 

[alex.jl1994]

Doing LOIs is not controversial and I think everyone does them because there's really no downside or major time investment. I think what's controversial is whether or not they are the reason you ultimately get the interview as its a big confirmation bias when you send an LOI and you get an interview. People who get the interviews get all ecstatic and swear by them. The ones who it didn't work for don't really complain as much because it wasn't like they did a whole lot to send them. All it takes for one happy person telling 100 people their LOI worked for everyone to think they work. To anyone reading, please write the LOI if it's been at least 3-4 weeks since certification, they can only help!

Definitely also encouraging LOIs! I only mentioned they might be controversial because at my school, there was some discussion regarding PDs for some specialties who mentioned that they did not enjoy hundreds of LOIs clogging up their emails and sometimes perceived them as insincere.

 

[Redpancreas]

Definitely also encouraging LOIs! I only mentioned they might be controversial because at my school, there was some discussion regarding PDs for some specialties who mentioned that they did not enjoy hundreds of LOIs clogging up their emails and sometimes perceived them as insincere.

Recruitment is part of their job and they have administrative assistants.