When will the last of the unsaturated areas be saturated?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

UCSF2021

Full Member
5+ Year Member
Joined
Apr 18, 2018
Messages
67
Reaction score
50
Talking with friends, it seems like rural California (Central Valley, Northern), South Texas (rural), middle of nowhere Arizona, and Alaska are the only areas with little to no saturation? Thoughts on how long these places have till they get flooded and the entire market becomes saturated.

Members don't see this ad.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Im not familiar with other states but here in Texas, I believe even the rural areas are filling up quickly. Probably 2-3 yrs every thing will be gone.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
it's already saturated - no more sign on bonuses given out
 
Members don't see this ad :)
The California Central Valley is completely saturated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Having done the middle-of-nowhere-Arizona thing, I cannot emphasize enough that some of these places don't need that many pharmacists. Even with constant turnover, there aren't that many jobs in small municipalities.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Talking with friends, it seems like rural California (Central Valley, Northern), South Texas (rural), middle of nowhere Arizona, and Alaska are the only areas with little to no saturation? Thoughts on how long these places have till they get flooded and the entire market becomes saturated.
Middle of nowhere Arizona is saturated. Ask my graduating class. Some of them are commuting an hour plus outside of Tucson for per diem work.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I'm in BFE , CO and we get 30-50 applicants per job, usually staff according to my dm. I think people will now go anywhere the money may be, i think it's already a problem in rural areas....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I suppose AZ may all be saturated then, I was under the impression that Lake Havasu area was in demand... I do know for a fact that rural cali is still high in demand. Here is a job posting with Wags for example: Pharmacy Manager - SIGN ON BONUS AVAILABLE at WALGREENS
Ah, the good ole

“1 year pharmacy experience in a retail setting including prescription filling and verification, records and legal compliance, pharmacy operations, pharmacy software and technology systems and insurance”

clause to weed out new grads, all of which don’t have experience verifying. And yet people will look at a posting like this and say “there are jobs you just need to move!”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
The APHA will save us with a free membership!
 
  • Haha
  • Like
Reactions: 9 users
If you don't like river recreation there is absolutely no reason to move to Lake Havasu City or anywhere in Mohave County unless you believe in your God-given right to unfettered opioid prescribing: This Arizona county had more opioid prescriptions than people

Also Ridgecrest, California is closer to Victorville than Bakersfield.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Members don't see this ad :)
I live somewhere that's pretty undesirable in many respects and I don't think there are jobs here anymore...so I'd say we are reaching full capacity.
 
I agree, I think pretty everywhere is saturated. There are still a few individual pharmacies/hospitals with extremely high turnover....because of the job being extremely toxic. But I don't know of any places where one can just up and move and be guaranteed a job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Talking with friends, it seems like rural California (Central Valley, Northern), South Texas (rural), middle of nowhere Arizona, and Alaska are the only areas with little to no saturation? Thoughts on how long these places have till they get flooded and the entire market becomes saturated.
They were saturated in 2015. Because they are hardship areas people will always quit and the position will quickly be filled......musical chairs. However, the possibility of such an opening is dependent on variables such as “Can said pharmacists land a job in a better environment?” “Is said pharmacist ready to dump pharmacy and pursue another field?”
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Middle of nowhere Arizona is saturated. Ask my graduating class. Some of them are commuting an hour plus outside of Tucson for per diem work.
It’s true. Arizona is the new Florida.
 
Talking with friends, it seems like rural California (Central Valley, Northern), South Texas (rural), middle of nowhere Arizona, and Alaska are the only areas with little to no saturation? Thoughts on how long these places have till they get flooded and the entire market becomes saturated.
You do know how small the largest city in Alaska is right? And that the other “cities” if you want to call them that most are villages, might have one hospital. And, there is a pharmacy school in Alaska, I think graduating 15 pharmacists a year, but still. Have you ever ventured up to Alaska? Lol
 
It’s true. Arizona is the new Florida.

Believe it or not i just passed up several offers from CVS and WAGS in Florida......It is the MANGER experience i now have at what used to be high volume (lol) that they like..... of course the staff spots they offered mostly had a catch like " the manager is leaving in a few months and i thought you could learn the ropes and take over!), yeah thats where i lost interest....lol I'm just gonna ride this out and stop whining... ive cashed in on something that most newbies will never see in their lifetime in retail pharmacy (if it exists at all)....... I think we all can agree on that one! so cheers to us!
 
Soze - this May be your best post ever. Made me lol

LOL, yeah i'm tired of whining ya know? i feel my end coming in this field and im okay with that......I'm losing the strength to even post about doom and gloom anymore..... i'm retiring! lol...Gonna go rent cars in the tropics.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
LOL, yeah i'm tired of whining ya know? i feel my end coming in this field and im okay with that......I'm losing the strength to even post about doom and gloom anymore..... i'm retiring! lol...Gonna go rent cars in the tropics.....

Lol - hang in there soze. Just keep flipping scripts and use that time to be proactive in planning your next step
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I suppose AZ may all be saturated then, I was under the impression that Lake Havasu area was in demand... I do know for a fact that rural cali is still high in demand. Here is a job posting with Wags for example: Pharmacy Manager - SIGN ON BONUS AVAILABLE at WALGREENS

Nobody wants to manage a failing business anymore.... thats why its so hard to find competent managers who are willing to live on the precipice of failure all the time....You'll never see s sign on bonus for a staff i bet.....
 
There was a posting on the WIRE for an exciting pharmacy manager opportunity in Mcalester, OK at Walmart 151 (~120 miles SE from Oklahoma City and ~90 miles N from Tulsa), pop 18k with only a Walgreens and CVS as chain competition. Only 1800 sold Rx/week.

No relocation bonus
 
There was a posting on the WIRE for an exciting pharmacy manager opportunity in Mcalester, OK at Walmart 151 (~120 miles SE from Oklahoma City and ~90 miles N from Tulsa), pop 18k with only a Walgreens and CVS as chain competition. Only 1800 sold Rx/week.

No relocation bonus

1800/sold/week can be a nightmare if your stuck in a Ghetto, trailer park store like mine. I have a homeless shelter on one side , and a psych hospital on the other. Median income ~30,000, , un-educated ALL medicade. I have not seen an actual BC/BS or Cigna or aetna...etc commercial card in god knows how long.... no exaggeration. The most negative environment you can work in besides HARLEM , NY....lol. makes 1800 feel like 18,000. Nothing but problems all day.....
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Be careful. They might pick on your post as opposed to the low-quality ****post threads that still remain
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
If places are so saturated, why do floaters still suck?
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 3 users
If places are so saturated, why do floaters still suck?

My pharmacy gets over 100 RPh applications every time we post an opening. Somehow we still have some pretty garbage pharmacists. There seems to be low to no correlation between quantity of applications and quality of employees.
 
  • Like
  • Haha
Reactions: 4 users
There are types of people who end up in retail who act like they're too good for it, especially if they just doing pharmacy for the "easy" money because a pharmacy "career" is actually their ceiling on earning potential.

Retail is garbage though
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
My pharmacy gets over 100 RPh applications every time we post an opening. Somehow we still have some pretty garbage pharmacists. There seems to be low to no correlation between quantity of applications and quality of employees.
It’s because there are plenty of biases when it comes to hiring practices. Usually you will hire someone you know or a friend of a friend/employee— so with the dilution of the talent pool with these diploma mill grads they all end up just hiring each other because of “networking” as opposed to merit. Obviously, quality goes down massively as a result of this.

Another example of this: there are residency programs that only interview/recruit students from certain schools of pharmacy that the RPD/residency coordinators went to. When hiring is done in that fashion (everyone who passes through attended the same school), then there simply is not going to be any innovation and the program will be stuck in reverse because there are no real exchange of ideas— so the best person is just going to be the most senior person of the bunch.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
My pharmacy gets over 100 RPh applications every time we post an opening. Somehow we still have some pretty garbage pharmacists. There seems to be low to no correlation between quantity of applications and quality of employees.

Yes - and this is my response every single time I hear the saturation argument comes up. I always say, “there may be a saturation of pharmacists, however there is not a saturation of quality pharmacists.”

The majority of pharmacists that I know are not well prepared for the jobs available right now.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
The quality of candidates that get into pharmacy school are low to begin with which is why you don’t get quality pharmacists. The only real barrier entry is having a pulse and being able to take out $200k+ in student loans.

Garbage in, garbage out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Hiring priority goes like this:
1) nepotism
2) hot girl
3) naive sucker
4) qualified applicant
 
  • Like
  • Love
Reactions: 4 users
Walmart recently advertised some open "pharmacist manager" positions in Arizona on the WIRE with "relocation potential"!

Tucson (posted 8/29/19) - southern part of the city, probably ratchet WM (> 20% poverty rate for that zip code)
Douglas (posted 8/8/19) - "enjoy sunny days and star-studded nights" - on the Mexico border, SE corner of the state, ~120 miles from Tucson
Nogales (posted 7/10/19) - "most diverse and interesting destinations" - on the Mexico border, ~66 miles from Tucson

Script range 1800-2600/week. CS dispensing rate sub 5%

Maybe not so bad if you speak good Spanish. Doesn't get as hot as on the Colorado River in northern/western AZ

Those are all the same market FYI
 
Last edited:
Walmart recently advertised some open "pharmacist manager" positions in Arizona on the WIRE with "relocation potential"!

Tucson (posted 8/29/19) - southern part of the city, probably ratchet WM (> 20% poverty rate for that zip code)
Douglas (posted 8/8/19) - "enjoy sunny days and star-studded nights" - on the Mexico border, SE corner of the state, ~120 miles from Tucson
Nogales (posted 7/10/19) - "most diverse and interesting destinations" - on the Mexico border, ~66 miles from Tucson

Script range 1800-2600/week. CS dispensing rate sub 5%

Maybe not so bad if you speak good Spanish. Doesn't get as hot as on the Colorado River in northern/western AZ

Those are all the same market FYI
Just left that area(the border). You can have it! Be prepared to have your car hit. That’s no joke. How long can you do BFE? Keep that **it hello new occupation. #F***pharmacy#BFEisntworthit#dumppharmacy#shiphassailed#dontbeafraidtotakerisks2getoutpharmacy#I’mdone
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Yes - and this is my response every single time I hear the saturation argument comes up. I always say, “there may be a saturation of pharmacists, however there is not a saturation of quality pharmacists.”
The majority of pharmacists that I know are not well prepared for the jobs available right now.

Nor, is there any good way for employers to identify qualified applicants. The problem is the "soft skills", someone can be an excellent pharmacist academically, but if they are extremely lazy, always calling in sick or showing up late, or if they have zero people skills, or even hostile people skills, they are will be a horrible applicant. There is no way for an employer to know about the "soft skills" until they actually hire the person (or unless they have someone they really trust vouch for them....even then, I've been asked to serve as a job reference for a couple of co-workers who were horrible workers (soft skills, not knowledge).....and while I wasn't dishonest, I completely avoided their bad soft skills, and did my best to play up their knowledge and work skills, because I *really* wanted them to get hired elsewhere so I didn't have to put up with their issues anymore.

Like north south dakota , Idaho, montana? Saturated or not?

The one major city in those states, definitely saturated. The rest of the state, at equilibrium, and will probably be saturated by the time you graduate next year.


Hiring priority goes like this:
1) nepotism
2) hot girl
3) naive sucker
4) qualified applicant

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. Soooooo true!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I agree, I think pretty everywhere is saturated. There are still a few individual pharmacies/hospitals with extremely high turnover....because of the job being extremely toxic. But I don't know of any places where one can just up and move and be guaranteed a job.

I can vouch for this. However how can one tell such a place is toxic before taking the job.
 
It’s because there are plenty of biases when it comes to hiring practices. Usually you will hire someone you know or a friend of a friend/employee— so with the dilution of the talent pool with these diploma mill grads they all end up just hiring each other because of “networking” as opposed to merit. Obviously, quality goes down massively as a result of this.

Another example of this: there are residency programs that only interview/recruit students from certain schools of pharmacy that the RPD/residency coordinators went to. When hiring is done in that fashion (everyone who passes through attended the same school), then there simply is not going to be any innovation and the program will be stuck in reverse because there are no real exchange of ideas— so the best person is just going to be the most senior person of the bunch.

I think the pharmacy residency needs to create some standardized exam like our physician counterparts to make it merit based. What are your thoughts on a standardized exam to get acceptance into a pharmacy residency?
 
I think the pharmacy residency needs to create some standardized exam like our physician counterparts to make it merit based. What are your thoughts on a standardized exam to get acceptance into a pharmacy residency?
I think that would be a good start towards creating “quality” pharmacists; however, it would create a logistical nightmare that would take a philosophical shift in what pharmacy schools and residency programs value and emphasize in their coursework. Medical residency placement is over 80% dependent on test scores and grades - as in you won’t stand a chance in the competitive specialities if your test scores don’t meet the cutoff - whereas pharmacy residencies look at volunteer work, leadership positions held, and work experience in addition to GPA (which is only a small part of your overall application). In addition, medical school curriculum is geared towards helping students achieve success on the step and shelf exams, while pharmacy school curriculums are “teach whatever you want so long as you check off ACPE requirements.” This is why classes such as medical drawing exist which do not prove a student’s competence in anything.

Long story short, you’d need to overhaul the entire PharmD curriculum if you wanted to institute a standardized, merit-based test. The NAPLEX is a joke which I’m sure even pharmacy technicians could pass, so I don’t get why everyone is so adamant about grading schools based on NAPLEX pass rates.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
The NAPLEX is a joke which I’m sure even pharmacy technicians could pass, so I don’t get why everyone is so adamant about grading schools based on NAPLEX pass rates.

I enjoy hyperbole as much as the next guy but this is too much. Most techs don’t even know what class a drug is in or what it is used for.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I enjoy hyperbole as much as the next guy but this is too much. Most techs don’t even know what class a drug is in or what it is used for.
You'd be surprised. A lot of techs actually know brand/generics from working very long and also know what many common drugs are used for. But that is also because I've seen a lot of techs that are actually retired nursing assistants so they moved to a slow independent so they can make a wage while working slowly interacting with the locals. They also tend to do a lot of things they really aren't supposed to such as counseling but :shrug:
 
You'd be surprised. A lot of techs actually know brand/generics from working very long and also know what many common drugs are used for. But that is also because I've seen a lot of techs that are actually retired nursing assistants so they moved to a slow independent so they can make a wage while working slowly interacting with the locals. They also tend to do a lot of things they really aren't supposed to such as counseling but :shrug:

I think you’re the one who would be surprised. I doubt even 5% of techs could pass naplex. How many would even begin to know which drugs are cleared hepatically or have the slightest idea what labs to monitor?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think you’re the one who would be surprised. I doubt even 5% of techs could pass naplex. How many would even begin to know which drugs are cleared hepatically or have the slightest idea what labs to monitor?
I doubt even some current pharmacist would know some of that. The pharmacist I worked with didn't even know NAC was used to reverse APAP overdose (He thought it was just some random OTC dietary supplement). Heck, the only drug he knew that was cleared hepatically as APAP.
 
  • Wow
Reactions: 1 user
I think you’re the one who would be surprised. I doubt even 5% of techs could pass naplex. How many would even begin to know which drugs are cleared hepatically or have the slightest idea what labs to monitor?
I’m not talking about the part time pick-em-off-the-street techs who are just looking for anything that pays the bills, I’m talking about the career techs who quite frankly are more knowledgeable than P1-P2’s at the very minimum. I agree that techs may not understand clinical guidelines or lab testing as well as pharmacy students but the NAPLEX hardly tests on clinical questions anyways. When 50% of your points comes from math/calculations questions, 25%-30% of the questions are about random drug trivia (aka brand/generic names, indications, dosage form stuff) and another 20-25% of questions are actually based on therapeutics, I would think that it will be easy enough to score a 75% on the exam. What does everyone say in those NAPLEX study help threads? Focus on calculations (which has nothing to do with what you learn in pharmacy school).
 
Top