where are the men in psychiatry/mental health?

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Trismegistus4 said:
I knew someone would say this. That's why I included that little word "just." Regardless of whether certain people have been advised to used condoms, merely being a man who has sex with other men puts you at a higher risk of HIV. Therefore, the "evidence-based medicine" thing to do, if one were interested in equalization of incidence of disease, as splik seemed to imply we should be, is to recommend not being a man who has sex with other men. Splik was saying that being OK with a higher incidence of depression and anxiety in homosexuals is unacceptable; that one must advocate the completely public acceptance of homosexuality because supposedly these higher incidences are caused by "homophobia."
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First off, it's a bit simplistic to say that the EBM approach would be to tell a gay male not to have sex with men. Making sure he and his sexual partners are tested and using condoms can reduce the risk of HIV transmission.

Secondly, there's a difference in the who actors are in each scenario. With the gay male sex, it's the patient himself that takes the act that puts him at risk of HIV. You can, and should, educate him as to the risks and precautions he can take, but in the end it's up to him what risks he's willing to take. With the homophobia, it's other people doing things that leads to higher incidence of anxiety and depression amongst gays. I think we should worry when society is doing something that leads to worse mental health outcomes for no benefit.
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Trismegistus4 said:
I knew someone would say this. That's why I included that little word "just." Regardless of whether certain people have been advised to used condoms, merely being a man who has sex with other men puts you at a higher risk of HIV. Therefore, the "evidence-based medicine" thing to do, if one were interested in equalization of incidence of disease, as splik seemed to imply we should be, is to recommend not being a man who has sex with other men. Splik was saying that being OK with a higher incidence of depression and anxiety in homosexuals is unacceptable; that one must advocate the completely public acceptance of homosexuality because supposedly these higher incidences are caused by "homophobia."
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You keep throwing out evidenced based for things that are most certainly not evidenced base. There is no evidence that telling a gay man not to have sex will lower his risk for HIV. You know what we have a lot of evidence for that lowers the risk for HIV? Condoms.

As to your point about depression. Minority stress is a well documented phenomenon. LGBTQ folks are much more likely to experience discrimination, hate crimes, homelessness, being disowned by their families, etc etc. Seriously, this isn't a complicated concept. Also nice scare quotes around homophobia lol
 
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Trismegistus4 said:
I have never subscribed to that idea that a doctor must be a doctor first, placing some ambiguous, supposedly medically-driven moral code of tolerance above the values of nation, culture, God, etc., and if the latter conflict with curing or treating some supposed disease, the latter have got to go. My belief in traditional Western civilization is higher and more fundamental than my desire to treat mental illness or any other illness for that matter, and I'm not going to advocate or participate in the overthrow of society to achieve some nebulous goal like the reduction of disease.

And I suspect the analog is true for you and your culturally left-wing value system. After all, for example, just being a man who has sex with men puts one at a much higher risk for contracting HIV. The "scientific" thing to do, by your logic, would be to counsel all your male patients not to have sex with men. And yet somehow I doubt you do that.
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This is one of the oddest statements I have seen posted on this board. What is a belief system in traditional Western Civilization really mean? That is so vague that it would seem to give you pretty free reign to be your own individual arbiter of what is right and wrong and moral. Also, I am thinking that Western Civilization changes whether you like it to or not. Which period are you referring to as traditional: Greek, Rome, Medieval, Renaissance, Enlightenment, Industrial Age? Child abuse and spousal abuse was traditional not too long ago so was slavery. Last century eugenics was a popular belief, maybe that's what you want. Did you have your fingers crossed when you took the Hippocratic Oath or don't MDs do that anymore?
 
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So I've been around SDN too d@mn long, which means I know that tris has voiced these opinions in an essentially unchanged manner for ages -- really since before he applied to medical school. It appears that training hasn't changed them. I would be curious to know how he approaches his LGBTQ patients with empathy, but I'm not sure there's much utility trying to argue with him about his ideas because they seem pretty fixed.

I think this points to the bigger question of whether some beliefs are incompatible with the practice of medicine. Who should decide that?
 
Doctor Bagel said:
So I've been around SDN too d@mn long, which means I know that tris has voiced these opinions in an essentially unchanged manner for ages -- really since before he applied to medical school. It appears that training hasn't changed them. I would be curious to know how he approaches his LGBTQ patients with empathy, but I'm not sure there's much utility trying to argue with him about his ideas because they seem pretty fixed.
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Right, but I think it important to rectify missrepresentations of the orthodoxy and orthopraxy of the Christian faith.
 
erg923 said:
Right, but I think it important to rectify missrepresentations of the orthopraxy of the Christian faith.
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True. I find it hilarious when Christians rage against "social justice warriors" when by its very nature Christians are called to care about social justice. Jesus would have been labeled as a social justice warrior. I was brought up in a Catholic household, went to Catholic school and that was a huge priority. Obviously you don't have to need Christianity to care about the poor and disenfranchised but one should not forget that was probably the main message of the guy the religion is named off of.
 
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touchpause13 said:
True. I find it hilarious when Christians rage against "social justice warriors" when by its very nature Christians are called to care about social justice. Jesus would have been labeled as a social justice warrior. I was brought up in a Catholic household, went to Catholic school and that was a huge priority. Obviously you don't have to need Christianity to care about the poor and disenfranchised but one should not forget that was probably the main message of the guy the religion is named off of.
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A fundamental challenge for all us as Christians, is simply to change our lurking suspicion that some lives matter less than other lives. This was the message of Christ and, from his posts, it appears this is something @Trismegistus4 gave up striving for many moons ago, as there is obviously an undertone in his post of the superiority of White, Anglo, Christians. That makes me sad because its SO counter to the message and subsequent behavior of Christ. It also makes me concerned for his minority patients...
 
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So this thread had politics, sexuality, and religion. Still the hard hitting question has yet to be answered....

Did nancy and vistiral hook up?
 
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These reality shows... I always get my characters confused. You're right. Though, I'm not completely opposed to my unintentional plot twist.
 
To all those wondering, vistaril has left me in a lurch. But I don't hate him.

I want a real man, and any man that can be tamed isn't real. If he didn't want me, it wasn't meant to be.

Lucky is the woman he sets his eyes upon. As for me, I have three ex-husbands, and I continue my lifelong relationship with the dance.
 
novopsych said:
To all those wondering, vistaril has left me in a lurch. But I don't hate him.

I want a real man, and any man that can be tamed isn't real. If he didn't want me, it wasn't meant to be.

Lucky is the woman he sets his eyes upon. As for me, I have three ex-husbands, and I continue my lifelong relationship with the dance.
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He may have been a cocagen in disguise. :)
 
novopsych said:
To all those wondering, vistaril has left me in a lurch. But I don't hate him.

I want a real man, and any man that can be tamed isn't real. If he didn't want me, it wasn't meant to be.

Lucky is the woman he sets his eyes upon. As for me, I have three ex-husbands, and I continue my lifelong relationship with the dance.
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I don't usually touch RPF (real person fiction) with a barge pole, but goddamn I am so tempted to write SDN fan fic right now. :rofl:
 
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touchpause13 said:
True. I find it hilarious when Christians rage against "social justice warriors" when by its very nature Christians are called to care about social justice. Jesus would have been labeled as a social justice warrior. I was brought up in a Catholic household, went to Catholic school and that was a huge priority. Obviously you don't have to need Christianity to care about the poor and disenfranchised but one should not forget that was probably the main message of the guy the religion is named off of.
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erg923 said:
A fundamental challenge for all us as Christians, is simply to change our lurking suspicion that some lives matter less than other lives. This was the message of Christ and, from his posts, it appears this is something @Trismegistus4 gave up striving for many moons ago, as there is obviously an undertone in his post of the superiority of White, Anglo, Christians. That makes me sad because its SO counter to the message and subsequent behavior of Christ. It also makes me concerned for his minority patients...
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Respect to the both of you. :bow:
 
erg923 said:
A fundamental challenge for all us as Christians, is simply to change our lurking suspicion that some lives matter less than other lives. This was the message of Christ and, from his posts, it appears this is something @Trismegistus4 gave up striving for many moons ago, as there is obviously an undertone in his post of the superiority of White, Anglo, Christians. That makes me sad because its SO counter to the message and subsequent behavior of Christ. It also makes me concerned for his minority patients...
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Perhaps counter to the message of Christ but certainly not counter to what one often encounters in organized religion. I was taught that I was less than in my roman catholic upbringing because I'm female. I couldn't be an acolyte, and I certainly couldn't be a priest. There were all sorts of justifications for it to say it wasn't sexism, but it was (is). The catholic church is now trying to embrace "tolerance" toward the LGBTQ community by saying you can desire whoever but can't act on it. Tris' views fit in perfectly with a lot of the hateful attitudes I've seen in organized religion.
 
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Doctor Bagel said:
Perhaps counter to the message of Christ but certainly not counter to what one often encounters in organized religion. I was taught that I was less than in my roman catholic upbringing because I'm female. I couldn't be an acolyte, and I certainly couldn't be a priest. There were all sorts of justifications for it to say it wasn't sexism, but it was (is). The catholic church is now trying to embrace "tolerance" toward the LGBTQ community by saying you can desire whoever but can't act on it. Tris' views fit in perfectly with a lot of the hateful attitudes I've seen in organized religion.
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Which is unfortunate and sad. Thus, as Christians we are obligated to to correct them, no?

I can disagree strongly with policies of an institution which is run by man who is naturally sinful (unlike Christ). But that certainly doesn't diminish the ultimate underlying belief/faith and message.
 
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Doctor Bagel said:
Perhaps counter to the message of Christ but certainly not counter to what one often encounters in organized religion. I was taught that I was less than in my roman catholic upbringing because I'm female. I couldn't be an acolyte, and I certainly couldn't be a priest. There were all sorts of justifications for it to say it wasn't sexism, but it was (is). The catholic church is now trying to embrace "tolerance" toward the LGBTQ community by saying you can desire whoever but can't act on it. Tris' views fit in perfectly with a lot of the hateful attitudes I've seen in organized religion.
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Why do you think I left the church lol? The congregation I grew up in was pretty cool but as a teen I started to see the hypocrisy and had people use it has a way to treat me badly for being queer and female. Plus the amount of abuse and it's subsequent cover up? Nope nope nope.
 
erg923 said:
Which is unfortunate and sad. Thus, as Christians we are obligated to to correct them, no?

I can disagree strongly with policies of an institution which is run by man who is naturally sinful (unlike Christ). But that certainly doesn't diminish the ultimate underlying belief/faith and message.
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Of course their leaders claim that their ultimate underlying beliefs come from Christ -- in fact, doesn't the pope claim he gets direct messages from god that guide policy?

Personally I've decided it's all stuff we made up. Maybe if my childhood church were less sexist, I wouldn't have decided that, butI don't know. Julie Sweeney did this piece called Letting Go of God, which so closely captured my thoughts about my shift from religion to atheism.
 
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Doctor Bagel said:
Of course their leaders claim that their ultimate underlying beliefs come from Christ -- in fact, doesn't the pope claim he gets direct messages from god that guide policy? .
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The Bishop Rome is viewed as the succesor of Peter. (Saint) Peter was an apostle. Apostle, in whatever orthodoxy, are not seen as having direct, ongoing diaologues or direction from God. That would make one a "prophet."

Doctor Bagel said:
Personally I've decided it's all stuff we made up. Maybe if my childhood church were less sexist, I wouldn't have decided that, butI don't know. Julie Sweeney did this piece called Letting Go of God, which so closely captured my thoughts about my shift from religion to atheism.
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That is, of course, your choice. I think the better question is why have you let others strip you of your faith? I better question beyond that might be, so what if it is? What is the functional result? You feel like a fool? There are worse things in life...

Faith is called faith for reason, right? If one is wanting convincing and/or certitude, that might be an unrealistic expectation on the matter at this juncture.
 
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Doctor Bagel said:
Of course their leaders claim that their ultimate underlying beliefs come from Christ -- in fact, doesn't the pope claim he gets direct messages from god that guide policy?

Personally I've decided it's all stuff we made up. Maybe if my childhood church were less sexist, I wouldn't have decided that, butI don't know. Julie Sweeney did this piece called Letting Go of God, which so closely captured my thoughts about my shift from religion to atheism.
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I completely get that perspective and felt much the same way. Eventually, I was able to separate my own beliefs and faith from religion and doctrine. this is not easy because even the resistance to religion shows that it affects me.
 
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Christianity isn't what it used to be...... it used to be much much more fun being a believer...... I mean really really fun....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banquet_of_Chestnuts imagine a prize given by his holiness for producing the most..... you know.....I mean..... for being so manly.....
 
novopsych said:
I know exactly what you're talking about. I'm a woman, but I've got the horse sense of a midwesterner, on account of that I was raised in the midwest. I’ve never done this before on an Internet forum, but these rumors to rest that I am a troll, I will reveal my name. I am Libbay. I am a psychiatrist and dancer. I grew up in the alluvial plains of Iowa. My mommy and daddy raised us on a farm, adjacent to a backwater slough.

I need you to know something about me. My own parents were not allowed to dance at their own wedding reception. That does something to a girl. It lights a fire. I've been married to three men like the type you mentioned who couldn't keep up with me.

Private message me if you'd like to talk more about where this could go. I hold myself to ruthlessly high standards and I expect the same of those around me. I can tell that you do the same. I can tell you are a real man. And I am a real woman.
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I can't find you anywhere. Are you a certified dance therapist?
 
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Nobody cares. Please don't resurrect this sickly thread.
 
Jesus took 3 days, Lazarus took 4 days to resurrect, now it has been 7 months. Of course this post goes from anal sex to dancing to the pope, so it is hard to kill.
 
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smalltownpsych said:
Whatever happened to Vistaril? I haven't seen any posts from him in a while. Maybe he and Novo/Birch started up a therapy of the dance practice.
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Careful, he is like pin head, say his name 3 times and he will appear.
 
smalltownpsych said:
:cool: I was recalling that too. No time to post anymore.

Vistaril, Vistaril, Vistaril
Let's see what happens. :eek:
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beetlejuice.jpg
 
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This is the thread that never ends, it just goes on and on my friends...:whistle:
 
MacDonaldTriad said:
Careful, he is like pin head, say his name 3 times and he will appear.
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Pinhead? A fellow horror movie fan methinks, yes, no, perhaps? Imma celebrate anyway:soexcited:

dc3lnl.jpg


Oh yeah, I'd tap that :naughty:
 
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