Where did I go wrong?

[bokermmk]

I guess I am looking for some advice or simple speculation. I am in the middle of the application process and it is not going so well. I am receiving rejection after rejection and havent even gotten an interview. And I cant figue out why. Here is some info about me. Maybe you all can speculate why

MCAT 35 - (12,12,11, O)
GPA 3.9 (4.0 science)
major- exercise science, minor - biology
personal statement - i thought it was good. my advisor said it was great. it focused on rowing and its relation to medicine
institutional action - yes (1 alcohol violation)
EC- 4 years on rowing team- senior captain, research (poster presentation etc), Honors program, volunteer work,
-I dont have much clinical experience (1 semester hospital 2 hours/week)

I am not trying to brag or boost. I am very dissapointed and am just looking for some insight, perhaps some suggestions.

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[mackaikai]

did you take the August MCAT? that might delay things a bit.

 

[bokermmk]

yes i took the august mcat. but i have heard back - with multiple rejections and holds

 

[Chronotropic]

How are your LOR?

 

[snowbear]

Was the institutional action from your school or was it a felony/misdemeanor?

 

[Alcon]

Which schools have you applied to (and been rejected from)? If they are top 10-type schools, then some rejections are to be expected. These school have too many excellent applicants to interview all.

If they are schools where your stats are well above their averages, perhaps you should call them and ask why you were rejected (to make sure there isn't a huge problem with your grades from AMCAS, LOR's, etc.).

Did you apply to enough schools? If so, and they represent a wide range of selectivity, then you will likely get some love eventually.

 

[exmike]

Id also question your selection of schools. If you only applied to top schools, then your lack of clinical experience could hurt you a lot, especially if you're applying late.

 

[bokermmk]

my violation was only from my school - i walked across the street with a beer

the rejections are from state schools and top schools - eg southern illinois, u chicago, vandy

 

[bokermmk]

i think my lor are very good. one even had me prrofread her lor and that one was good.
also, alcon- what did you mean by asking about my grades from amcas??

 

[jlee9531]

lots of potential reasons....
whether its true or not....who knows?

1. most of the schools you are getting rejected from are your backup schools. schools that might think you will not even consider their school anyway...and most of these schools are rolling.

2. most of your top choices are maybe nonrolling so you are not gonna hear from them for a while.

3. the alcohol thing can scare many schools away. why take a risk on someone when they have someone else they can consider...not my personal opinion but it could be those of others.

4. august mcat can always slow you down. i think some april mcat applicants still havent heard from any schools for invites too. think of their situation as well...

5. maybe lack of clinical experience? tho your scores are strong and your grades are nice, maybe they doubt your drive for medicine because you dont have much clinical exposure to see what the working field of medicine is like....

6. or maybe you didnt apply to a good range of schools. or didnt look into where your school typically sends premeds to. i know a good number of career centers keep track of this to help their students pick a range of schools that like premeds from your undergrad.

7. this process is random. we all have to deal with it...sdn members or not.

 

[edik]

How confident are you in your LORs? I've heard of some people getting really screwed by the profs. I single negative LOR can wreck havoc for your otherwise stellar app.
Anyway you can talk to your pre-med advisor about getting some hints?

 

[TTSD]

I agree, institutional actions can hurt someone badly.. how did you explain it to the schools?

My cousin had an institutional action taken against him as well.. it was only because his dad was the Chief of their VA hospital was he accepted, and even then they made him go through a post-bacc route.

 

[snowbear]

I know that horrible feeling. UC Davis was a school that I totally would have gone to, and I totally had the stats and experience. But they rejected me and it sucked.

It depends on how worried you are and how many rejections you are getting (consider what perecentage of schools that you applied to, have not told you anything and look on SDN for what fellow August MCATers are hearing back). I don't think there's anything wrong with calling a school that rejected you and asking them to explain why, we did give them money and it's a perfectly legitimate question. Maybe they can give you some feedback now that you can use to your advantage with other schools. Applying late might have set you back, and maybe your lack of clinical experience might be a factor too.

BUT, it's way tooooooooo early to give up hope, give it some time. Maybe get some more clinical experience and send updates. And if it comes to the end of the process and you haven't heard any good news, use the year to get more clinical experience and apply early next year. Your stats are amazing and your non-clinical ECs too--that's awesome that you were so involved in rowing

Hope this helps.

 

[meanderson]

I think your lack of clinical experience(and lets face it, you have none) is a bigger problem than the alcohol school violation. 1 semester for 2 hrs/week comes out to a whopping 30 hours of doing whatever "clinical" you were doing. You don't have to shadow physicians to get in, you don't have to have a paid position(emt, tech, etc) to get in, you don't have to do hospice to get in..........but you generally need to do more than 30 total general volunteer hours related to the medical field.

Looking at the rejections- southern illinois clearly dinged you there for the lack of clinical experience.

As for vandy, they ding plenty of 3.9/35's pre-interview. You weren't the only one.

I don't know much about U of Chicago as I didnt apply there....

 

[jlee9531]

chicago knocks down top apps too....they are a top med school. southern ill has been known to knock em down too...

 

[XCanadianRagwee]

Originally posted by bokermmk
I guess I am looking for some advice or simple speculation. I am in the middle of the application process and it is not going so well. I am receiving rejection after rejection and havent even gotten an interview. And I cant figue out why. Here is some info about me. Maybe you all can speculate why

MCAT 35 - (12,12,11, O)
GPA 3.9 (4.0 science)
major- exercise science, minor - biology
personal statement - i thought it was good. my advisor said it was great. it focused on rowing and its relation to medicine
institutional action - yes (1 alcohol violation)
EC- 4 years on rowing team- senior captain, research (poster presentation etc), Honors program, volunteer work,
-I dont have much clinical experience (1 semester hospital 2 hours/week)

I am not trying to brag or boost. I am very dissapointed and am just looking for some insight, perhaps some suggestions.

you went wrong at the apply for medical schools on ramp.

 

[Bernd]

Were you given an opportunity to explain the reason for the alcohol violation, or did you just check a box. If there was no place on the app to explain what the violation was, I would consider sending a letter to explain that. Especially with any new secondaries you send in, but possibly even with schools you're waiting for. Email your advisor and ask him/her what he/she thinks about that idea before you do it.

 

[Amy B]

A couple of things come to mind.....
1. Check to make sure AMCAS has submitted the correct GPA. A few years back a guy had an incorrect GPA submitted by AMCAS and his story sounds surprisingly similar to yours.

2. Call the schools and ask for a quick phone conversation with the dean. Maybe they made a mistake.

3. Clinical experience. Is there any way you can get more and email or call the schools and tell them what you are doing?

4. Personal statement - This may be the factor to your rejections. I have heard from a dean of admissions from a local school that they are often turning away 4.0 GPA and high MCAT due to their essays. She said they write essays that are self-absorbed and not very passionate. She said she wants a personal essay to speak volumes when it comes to explaining how an applicant was driven to medicine and what kind of doctor they will be, ie: dedicated, compassionate, selfless, caring.

Perhaps you should have a few more people read your essay to determine if this may be the sticking point for your application. The dean said the essay is by far one of THE most important aspects to an application. She said most students are all smart, do well on their MCAT and have lots of EC, but it is their essays that set them aprat from their peers.

5. I would also wonder about the LORs. Are you sure they are all great and tell about you and not just... "He is a good student and he gets A's in my class." Were they from people who you knew welll and could give insight as to the type of person you are and will make as a doctor.

Good luck, I would say definetly call those schools and ask them. They are usually more than willing to discuss why you were rejected in order for you to improve for next year. I hope you won't have to wait till next year though.

 

[Paws]

Clinical is what jumps out at me. Is there anyway you can be doing something more involved in this setting? When I volunteered in an ER I was there four hours a week for over a year. It was about 240 hours, plus I did some other patient related work. Now I work in a clinic and that's even more patient contact.

I can't speak for any adcom, but when I was being interviewed I was really grilled about the extent of my clinical work and even tho I felt I had alot, I was put through the ringer about it. The interviewer really made me defend my desire to work with patients as evidenced by my actual work with patients. It was really exhausting but I understand why it was so important. They want to see that you can put up with the reality of the grit and grind of patient care.

Otherwise, dang ! What a totally great application.

 

[sgilani]

you've gotten a lot of really good advice here. one other thing... people still get interviews as late as april, so those holds could end up being a good thing. try not worry to much as it's a pretty random process.

 

[calebho501]

I think both Vandy and U of Chicago have very mysterious way of selecting interviewees. I've met people who got straight rejection from Vandy and interview at U of Chicago. I've heard of good applicants being put on hold for second review at U of Chicago.

However, you didn't mention specifically what the other volunteer experience you had. The types of volunteer experience you have can affect how adcom view your little amount of clinical experience.

I was actually told by my student interviewer (SUNY Upstate) once that I have relatively little clinical experience, but the issue never came up as an issue in all the other interviews (I interviewed at 8 schools so far). In fact, that's true because the only real clinical experience I had was:
1. Rotation-based volunteer program in hospital for 1 year
2. Visiting patients and interpreting for patients for >3 years
3. NO doctor shadowings, ER volunteering, EMT, etc.

I think my other activities sorta help my interviewers overlook my little amount of clinical experience. (Eg. Crisis hotline, teaching in a classroom for mentally ******ed people, Health education work for college students)

 

[Optimist]

Yeah, UofC and Vandy are strange in deciding who to interview. SIU accepts virtually no one from outside Illinois, and only about 15% from counties that are not "underrepresented". Having taken the August MCAT, you'll need to be a bit patient, there are still several months of interviewing left. For now, all you can really do is call the schools and find out why you were rejected.

 

[gary5]

I'd say it's mostly the lack of clinical experience. It probably shows in your essay. On top of those two, the alcohol thing. If you're graduating, spend a year in a clinical or research position, and re-apply.

 

[Kashue]

I don't think clinical experiences has much to do with it. I only have about 7-8 months of volunteer work as a patient care volunteer and it hasn't had an effect on my application. I do have ALOT of research experience tho.

I only got asked about my clinical experiences in only 2 of my interviews.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

If your schools health career's committee knows about this they probably put it on the letter. I know the one at our school puts all your JA's on there.

The worst things to get JAed for by schools by far are:

#1 cheating on tests: you can kiss your med school, law school, nursing school , dental school dreams good bye if you get caught cheating.

2. violence ie fighting: your fucced if you did this at school

3. Drugs and alcohol: the last thing medicine needs are drunken and high docs.

4. academic probation: not good either.

 

[dumbest premed]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
If your schools health career's committee knows about this they probably put it on the letter. I know the one at our school puts all your JA's on there.

The worst things to get JAed for by schools by far are:

#1 cheating on tests: you can kiss your med school, law school, nursing school , dental school dreams good bye if you get caught cheating.

2. violence ie fighting: your fucced if you did this at school

3. Drugs and alcohol: the last thing medicine needs are drunken and high docs.

4. academic probation: not good either.

I disagree. I was written up twice for alcohol violations and once for getting caught fighting. I just explained it on my application and it only came up at 2 interviews. They didn't make a big deal over it either, since I got into one of the those schools and I'm still waiting to hear from the other.

 

[jlee9531]

Originally posted by Kashue
I don't think clinical experiences has much to do with it. I only have about 7-8 months of volunteer work as a patient care volunteer and it hasn't had an effect on my application. I do have ALOT of research experience tho.

I only got asked about my clinical experiences in only 2 of my interviews.

but it came up at least....maybe most of the schools you applied to are stronger research schools than they are in primary care.

basically OP....everything said on this thread has been a factor. not just one single thing.

 

[exmike]

I was on AP, it was never brought up once in 9 interviews.

 

[BigRedPingpong]

Originally posted by exmike
I was on AP, it was never brought up once in 9 interviews.

Yes, yes...that's all fine and dandy...but did your committee put it in your composite letter? If not, we're talking apples and oranges. My original post made specific reference to mention by committee letters.

Also, to the poster who was caught drinking twice AND fighting at school. If you pulled some shiet like that at cornell you would get kicked out in a heartbeat unless your parents are the deans.

 

[dumbest premed]

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
Also, to the poster who was caught drinking twice AND fighting at school. If you pulled some shiet like that at cornell you would get kicked out in a heartbeat unless your parents are the deans.

Well, it wasn't that big of a deal. I live in an on-campus apartment so I always have the UPD up my @ss whenever I throw a party. Technically I'm not supposed to have any alcohol parties on campus (especially since I'm still 20) but who the heck doesn't? I know plenty of people who were busted. I'm thinking of moving off campus next semester to avoid all that crap. It's a pain having to watch out for the cops while everyone is partying. I wanna move downtown or something. Back when I was a freshman I also got caught drinking at someone else's party. And the fight was no big deal. It was late at night and some drunk dude got all pissed at me for looking at his girl....we got into a fight and some toolbox called the cops.

And BigRedPingpong....that's why I'm glad that I don't go to Cornell. Go Danes!

 

[exmike]

No, it wasnt in my committee letters, but it was on my AMCAS

Originally posted by BigRedPingpong
Yes, yes...that's all fine and dandy...but did your committee put it in your composite letter? If not, we're talking apples and oranges. My original post made specific reference to mention by committee letters.

Also, to the poster who was caught drinking twice AND fighting at school. If you pulled some shiet like that at cornell you would get kicked out in a heartbeat unless your parents are the deans.