Where do Western students do their rotations?

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NRAI2001

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I went to the western website to see which hospitals it has affiliations with to get an idea of where its students may do their rotations, but it was inaccessible.

So I was just wondering which hospitals and clinics do western students do their 3rd and 4th year rotations?

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There's a wide variety of hospitals for you to choose from. During 4th year, you can go pretty much anywhere in the country, but you have to do all the leg work and set those up with the specific hospital/university (they give their own students first priority obviously). Third year (and 4th year if you don't want to travel or maybe for your 'home' rotations), you have the choice of several hospitals in the southern california area, including Long Beach Memorial, Riverside County, Arrowhead, Doctor's Hospital of Montclair, Pomona Valley Hospital, Loma Linda, LA County/USC, etc. (LA County i think is one you have to set up, cause it's obviously USC's primary hospital) There's a ton, and I've only mentioned the one's most people use. You can also set up rotations with private clinicians in private offices as long as they're approved by the school. I haven't really examined the list yet, but I've seen it, and it's pretty long. I'm sure you can find rotoations elsewhere too. I've heard of some students doing rotations in San Diego. It's fairly open, and it's likely that you'll rotate at a few different hospitals (you wont have all your rotations in the same place). This is good, because it gives you a feel for what different hospitals are like and maybe an idea of where you would want to spend 4+ years at for residency.
 
NRAI2001 said:
I went to the western website to see which hospitals it has affiliations with to get an idea of where its students may do their rotations, but it was inaccessible.

So I was just wondering which hospitals and clinics do western students do their 3rd and 4th year rotations?

I'm currently a 4th year at Western. Core rotations are mostly at Arrowhead (County San Bernadino), Riverside County, Doctors Hospital Montclair, Chino Valley, Downey, Pacific Long Beach, Rancho Los Amigos... I'm sure I've forgotten a few and maybe some 3rd year can jump in and complete the list. There are a few random places that offer only one specialty, like Patton State for Psychiatry.
 
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Laloz said:
I'm currently a 4th year at Western. Core rotations are mostly at Arrowhead (County San Bernadino), Riverside County, Doctors Hospital Montclair, Chino Valley, Downey, Pacific Long Beach, Rancho Los Amigos... I'm sure I've forgotten a few and maybe some 3rd year can jump in and complete the list. There are a few random places that offer only one specialty, like Patton State for Psychiatry.

Are these all large hospitals?
 
Laloz said:
I'm currently a 4th year at Western. Core rotations are mostly at Arrowhead (County San Bernadino), Riverside County, Doctors Hospital Montclair, Chino Valley, Downey, Pacific Long Beach, Rancho Los Amigos... I'm sure I've forgotten a few and maybe some 3rd year can jump in and complete the list. There are a few random places that offer only one specialty, like Patton State for Psychiatry.

I realize this is digressing from the thread, however I have an interview at Western in September. As a fourth year student, what has been your experience and general impression of western? It seems like a lot of people talk smack about it, e.g. good school but ghetto, expensive, etc.

thanks for your time.
 
njaqua said:
I realize this is digressing from the thread, however I have an interview at Western in September. As a fourth year student, what has been your experience and general impression of western? It seems like a lot of people talk smack about it, e.g. good school but ghetto, expensive, etc.

thanks for your time.
Your best bet is to search SDN for COMP students (3rd and 4th years) and PM them.
 
NRAI2001 said:
Are these all large hospitals?

Arrowhead is large (350+ beds, level I trauma center)... I've heard Riverside is about the same, although I've not rotated there. Doctors and Chino are smaller community hospitals (50-100 beds). I have not rotated at the others, but my impression is that they are smaller community hospitals as well.
 
Is it possible to rotate in other states during your 4th year? Like NY, NJ, Florida, Marlyand, Texas.....etc?
 
NRAI2001 said:
Is it possible to rotate in other states during your 4th year? Like NY, NJ, Florida, Marlyand, Texas.....etc?
Of course. Rotations are even available abroad in 4th year.
 
TheFish005 said:
There's a wide variety of hospitals for you to choose from. During 4th year, you can go pretty much anywhere in the country, but you have to do all the leg work and set those up with the specific hospital/university (they give their own students first priority obviously). Third year (and 4th year if you don't want to travel or maybe for your 'home' rotations), you have the choice of several hospitals in the southern california area, including Long Beach Memorial, Riverside County, Arrowhead, Doctor's Hospital of Montclair, Pomona Valley Hospital, Loma Linda, LA County/USC, etc. (LA County i think is one you have to set up, cause it's obviously USC's primary hospital) There's a ton, and I've only mentioned the one's most people use. You can also set up rotations with private clinicians in private offices as long as they're approved by the school. I haven't really examined the list yet, but I've seen it, and it's pretty long. I'm sure you can find rotoations elsewhere too. I've heard of some students doing rotations in San Diego. It's fairly open, and it's likely that you'll rotate at a few different hospitals (you wont have all your rotations in the same place). This is good, because it gives you a feel for what different hospitals are like and maybe an idea of where you would want to spend 4+ years at for residency.


How difficult is it to rotate through USC, UCLA, UC SD, UC IRVINE, Loma linda....etc the other larger Cali university hospitals.

I noticed each year western has a few people matching into UCSD, Irvine, USC. Did these people rotate through these places?
 
Laloz said:
Arrowhead is large (350+ beds, level I trauma center)... I've heard Riverside is about the same, although I've not rotated there. Doctors and Chino are smaller community hospitals (50-100 beds). I have not rotated at the others, but my impression is that they are smaller community hospitals as well.

As a slight correction, Arrowhead is a Level II trauma center (no CT surgery).. as opposed to Loma Linda which is a level I, but Arrowhead easily sees a ton more trauma than Loma Linda which is why their general surgery and orthopedics residents spend a significant amount of time at Arrowhead.
 
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I gave feedback about being able to rotate at the California programs as a DO student, but in general, DO students from multiple schools including ours have been able to rotate at practically any of the hospitals affiliated with California allopathic medical schools including Stanford, UCSF, and UC-Davis which weren't mentioned in your list.

I would assume that for the graduates who matched at some of these programs, they would've had a better chance having rotated at the site. I could be wrong, but the person who matched to UCSD peds last year did not rotate there and she is the first from our school to match there.

Not sure who makes up the OPTI-West match list that is posted on the Western U's website, but it does seem to organize categories in an odd way. PM&R for the most part is separate from orthopedics, but in some academic instititutions, it is still considered a division of orthopedics for whatever reason. However, it should be listed separately as far as the match list is concerned.
 
Regarding elective rotations:

It is my understanding that COMP doesn't allow an EM elective during 3rd year, and the EM core rotation is during 4th year. I've read elsewhere that those applying to EM programs will generally want at least 2 EM rotations, and associated LORs, by September or October of 4th year.

It seems to me this restriction would make things very difficult for any COMP student interested in EM.

Is there something I am misunderstanding?

Thanks!
 
JakeHarley said:
Regarding elective rotations:

It is my understanding that COMP doesn't allow an EM elective during 3rd year, and the EM core rotation is during 4th year. I've read elsewhere that those applying to EM programs will generally want at least 2 EM rotations, and associated LORs, by September or October of 4th year.

It seems to me this restriction would make things very difficult for any COMP student interested in EM.

Is there something I am misunderstanding?

Thanks!

I believe most medical schools do not allow ER rotations until 4th year although I could be wrong. Students will generally just try to schedule ER earlier in their 4th year to see if they are really interested in it and if they have the foresight, have other ER rotations scheduled after that.

Having the LOR's in by Sept/Oct. is ideal although it can be turned in later in many cases. Remember that some programs may not even fully download information and look at it until after the majority of schools release their dean's letters in november (COMP made a point to release dean's letters significantly earlier than this date though).

There are also opportunities through the EM club at COMP to shadow in local ER's to get a better feel for the environment and specialty.

Some changes may be occuring for students where their required EM rotation must be done at one of our core training sites such as Arrowhead, however the majority of our sites have very good ER experiences in terms of teaching, exposure to pathology, and procedures.. and if a student is interested in ER, they would have already decided to use an elective spot to rotate at other training programs such as USC.

Hope this somewhat answers your question.
 
Jason_AZCOM said:
At AZCOM, it's almost all preceptor baised...

For anyone applying to AZCOM, be sure to ask A LOT of questions about 3rd and 4th year rotations....

1) How often will I get hosp. based rotations? (not very, if at all)
2) Will I be switched at the last minute from a rotation I wanted to one that is completely undesirable? (yes, often)
3) Will I have to drive 3+ hours a day, more then 60 miles each way, down to Mesa to rotate? (yes, in my case 3 or 4 rotations just this year alone)
4) Will I be able to review the questions that I missed on exams? (no, and no exceptions)
5) If the accepted answer on an exam is clearly wrong, will you give me credit for the correct answer? (no, and no exceptions)
6) Will the school help me set up non-computer lottery rotations? (no)
7) Due to all the testing in 3rd and 4th year, is it possible I will have to repeat an entire year, even though all my preceptors passed me and I aced the boards? (yes) If I decelerate, will you charge me more money? (yes, an entire years tuition)

I have heard good things about AZCOM, especially the rotation years. Was your experience particular or do your friends and fellow classmates feel the same way?
 
Couple of things that weren't answered.

1. The numerous Ortho matches weren't all actual matches I believe...several of the matches to some program on the East Coast (I think NY) are where they take all the interns but only a couple will actually get to advance on into Ortho residency at that hospital...like a pyramid so to speak.
There was one outright match into Ortho at an MD institution, and another one or two into DO programs I think.

2. Some of the big universities that people want to rotate at 4th year have schedule issues...i.e. UC Irvine students get first pick and other students can't apply untill like June or something, in which case some rotations are full. It's just a matter of getting your act together and applying as soon as you can and having backups.

3. There are smaller community hospitals where most students do their core 3rd year rotations, i.e. Pacific Long Beach, Rancho Los Amigos, Doctors Montclair, Chino Valley, San Antonio Community, and probably the largest of the hospitals is Arrowhead with Riverside 2nd. Arrowhead and Riverside are both county hospitals so you see that kind of patient population and pathology. I did most of my 3rd year rotations at Arrowhead, and I am an intern there now. I did a couple rotations at Riverside and sporadic rotations at other hospitals in So Cal my third year, community hospitals. Fourth year I went out of state twice, and did a few rotations at more academic institutions. The key is to plan ahead where you want to rotate and get all the paperwork in order, and there is a ton of legwork to get rotations at some places sometimes.

4. I don't think med students should do ER rotations until fourth year anyway so I didn't have a problem with the 4th year requirement. There are plenty of rotations that you can do 3rd year for experience, some giving good experiences that will help when you are on your ER rotation.

5. Most people who do match to university programs rotated through. It would be relatively rare for a DO to match into a big academic MD institution without rotating through, IMHO.

6. The school is in a bad part of town(ghetto), but that doesn't matter one bit. I didn't live in Pomona and don't know many who did. Its easy to commute from surrounding cities. It's expensive but many DO schools are, and many med schools in general. As long as you don't go into primary care, you'll make your money back....j/k...sort of. ;) The first year students are in a new curriculum so we'll see how they do on the boards, but really, that shouldn't be your #1 concern...and I see many people using schools board scores in order to decide between. Boards are extremely important when it comes to residency, but with a little effort you can do better on boards than some applicants from MD institutions/other DO schools....boards are a bigger reflection of the person in my opinion than the school, with a few exceptions. Program directors for residencies often look at local ties to the area so if you are wanting to get your residency training in SoCal, then Western might be a better idea than MSUCOM, which is probably safe to say "a better DO school."

7. Go to med school/DO school somewhere where you'll be happy living for a few years and feel as though you "fit in," whatever that means.
 
Vince -
why did you decide on COMP vs. anywhere else? if boards don't matter, what do you think is valuable in determining which school to attend?

Vince said:
Couple of things that weren't answered.

1. The numerous Ortho matches weren't all actual matches I believe...several of the matches to some program on the East Coast (I think NY) are where they take all the interns but only a couple will actually get to advance on into Ortho residency at that hospital...like a pyramid so to speak.
There was one outright match into Ortho at an MD institution, and another one or two into DO programs I think.

2. Some of the big universities that people want to rotate at 4th year have schedule issues...i.e. UC Irvine students get first pick and other students can't apply untill like June or something, in which case some rotations are full. It's just a matter of getting your act together and applying as soon as you can and having backups.

3. There are smaller community hospitals where most students do their core 3rd year rotations, i.e. Pacific Long Beach, Rancho Los Amigos, Doctors Montclair, Chino Valley, San Antonio Community, and probably the largest of the hospitals is Arrowhead with Riverside 2nd. Arrowhead and Riverside are both county hospitals so you see that kind of patient population and pathology. I did most of my 3rd year rotations at Arrowhead, and I am an intern there now. I did a couple rotations at Riverside and sporadic rotations at other hospitals in So Cal my third year, community hospitals. Fourth year I went out of state twice, and did a few rotations at more academic institutions. The key is to plan ahead where you want to rotate and get all the paperwork in order, and there is a ton of legwork to get rotations at some places sometimes.

4. I don't think med students should do ER rotations until fourth year anyway so I didn't have a problem with the 4th year requirement. There are plenty of rotations that you can do 3rd year for experience, some giving good experiences that will help when you are on your ER rotation.

5. Most people who do match to university programs rotated through. It would be relatively rare for a DO to match into a big academic MD institution without rotating through, IMHO.

6. The school is in a bad part of town(ghetto), but that doesn't matter one bit. I didn't live in Pomona and don't know many who did. Its easy to commute from surrounding cities. It's expensive but many DO schools are, and many med schools in general. As long as you don't go into primary care, you'll make your money back....j/k...sort of. ;) The first year students are in a new curriculum so we'll see how they do on the boards, but really, that shouldn't be your #1 concern...and I see many people using schools board scores in order to decide between. Boards are extremely important when it comes to residency, but with a little effort you can do better on boards than some applicants from MD institutions/other DO schools....boards are a bigger reflection of the person in my opinion than the school, with a few exceptions. Program directors for residencies often look at local ties to the area so if you are wanting to get your residency training in SoCal, then Western might be a better idea than MSUCOM, which is probably safe to say "a better DO school."

7. Go to med school/DO school somewhere where you'll be happy living for a few years and feel as though you "fit in," whatever that means.
 
Skooled2much said:
Vince -
why did you decide on COMP vs. anywhere else? if boards don't matter, what do you think is valuable in determining which school to attend?

Vince did mention:

(In #6) Boards are extremely important when it comes to residency, but with a little effort you can do better on boards than some applicants from MD institutions/other DO schools....boards are a bigger reflection of the person in my opinion than the school, with a few exceptions. Program directors for residencies often look at local ties to the area so if you are wanting to get your residency training in SoCal, then Western might be a better idea than MSUCOM, which is probably safe to say "a better DO school."

7. Go to med school/DO school somewhere where you'll be happy living for a few years and feel as though you "fit in," whatever that means.

--I personally think he is right regarding finding a place where you had a good "feel" about. You'll be spending the next couple of years in an area, so it can be very important regarding your support network and avenues for stress relief and recreation, especially if you have friends, families, activities that are relatively close-by.

I've seen people with high class ranks fail the boards, and I've seen people with sub-par board scores match to very good programs. I think COMP will allow students a chance to go for their dreams, but you have to definitely work hard for it even if there are no guarantees. I'm sure the same could be said about some other schools.
 
Vince said:
I was from Fort Worth and didn't get an interview at TCOM, which would have been nice (but in hindsight I would have been distracted more easily be working, so it was better that I moved). I interviewed at COMP and it felt good, and I looked forward to living in SoCal for a few years...I thought it would be a nice change and provide me with opportunities outside of medical school...like I figured I would learn Spanish more than in Texas or other areas....I would have good opportunities to go Mountain Biking...I like to go to the beach and boogie board, etc. (As a side note, I felt so good after my interview that I bought my mountain bike while still in Texas.)

I don't remember ever, even for a second, thinking about different DO schools based on what their average board scores were. I applied to Chicago because I had recently spent a couple weeks up there and thought it was a cool town. I applied to NOVA because I have been to Florida before and like Florida.

I do think it is better to go to a DO school that has set rotations and has been around a while, because residencies get "used" to the students who rotate through and generally feel more comfortable with the students.

And in hindsight it worked out...I made great friends, partied a bit, got to mountain bike, was able to do the Spain Exchange program between first and second year, travel to rural mexico with groups of doctors for medical relief work, played soccer (indoor and outdoor) with fellow classmates throughout medical school, had some fun with clubs and other school activities....and I studied pretty hard on my own, and the school's education was relatively solid, so I did well on my board and was able to get into a great university radiology program in SoCal.

So bottom line, go somewhere where you'll be happy spending a few years studying and a place that feels good.....study hard...and things will work out.

Wow university radiology in socal is pretty good. What was your secret for getting into such a great program?
 
Vince said:
Don't know. Did okay on boards (or at least good enough), did well during med school, rotated at the program, got good LORs, and while I was there I knew answers to questions, kept my mouth shut unless I was being asked a question, and did was I was told. And maybe a little luck thrown in...

Arent there only like 8 or so positions for that each year (i think my friend at USC med told me there were.....hes gunning for one)?
 
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