Which 2014 MCAT score would serve my student better?

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Gauss44

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Situation:

-Student is 38 years old.

-Is ready to take the 2014 MCAT, and will NOT consider preparing for the 2015 MCAT due to her age.

-AAMC has offered her time and a quarter for a learning disability. She is allowed to take the MCAT with normal time or with time and a quarter. The later is considered an "accommodation." The former is not.

-Her practice test scores range from 34-38 with accommodations (with extra time).

-Her practice test scores range from 28-32 without accommodations (regular amount of time).

What would you advise her to do? Should she take the 2014 MCAT with or without accommodations in your opinion?

Extra info:
cGPA: 3.4
sGPA: 3.6
Normal EC's
2 years of research, no publications
career changer, previously a mid-level manager in a unrelated field
has recent science coursework
not a racial minority or disadvantaged


(posted in Non-traditional due to student's age and because I'm looking for mature opinions)

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No idea. This person could potentially achieve the 30 without the accommodations, so this is a tough call. If this were the case where the person could not achieve a 30 without the accommodations, then the choice would be easier.
 
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My thought (being neither an adcom nor an accepted student, but having recently filled out many secondaries) is that I have yet to see any school ask whether accommodations were given for the MCAT. This may show up on AMCAS (dunno...) but have not seen the question asked.

So, if the question is never asked and if (?) it does not show up on AMCAS or in whatever files adcoms receive...
Then a higher score is always better, no?
 
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My thought (being neither an adcom nor an accepted student, but having recently filled out many secondaries) is that I have yet to see any school ask whether accommodations were given for the MCAT. This may show up on AMCAS (dunno...) but have not seen the question asked.

So, if the question is never asked and if (?) it does not show up on AMCAS or in whatever files adcoms receive...
Then a higher score is always better, no?

My student emailed AAMC and AAMC said that they put an asterisk next to any MCAT score obtained using accommodations of any kind. Whether or not ADCOMs know what that asterisk means is another story, but I suspect that they do.
 
My student emailed AAMC and AAMC said that they put an asterisk next to any MCAT score obtained using accommodations of any kind. Whether or not ADCOMs know what that asterisk means is another story, but I suspect that they do.

Some adcoms do know what it means and some don't. There were definitely situations on the forums where they did ask (however, they are not suppose to). The asterisk could mean anything though, there could have been an earthquake and they had to change the times or even an electrical outage. They will know it was not taken under standard conditions, but unless you say something about those conditions, they will not have a clue about what they are.
 
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Some adcoms do know what it means and some don't. There were definitely situations on the forums where they did ask (however, they are not suppose to). The asterisk could mean anything though, there could have been an earthquake and they had to change the times or even an electrical outage. They will know it was not taken under standard conditions, but unless you say something about those conditions, they will not have a clue about what they are.

I didn't know that. That seems to make the accommodations situation much more desirable. So most ADCOMS (non-Goros, non-LizzyMs) won't know an accommodated test from an earthquake, huh?
 
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I didn't know that. That seems to make the accommodations situation much more desirable. So most ADCOMS (non-Goros, non-LizzyMs) won't know an accommodated test from an earthquake, huh?

True, even Goro or Lizzy would not know either, but it does not mean they won't suspect the person had accommodations (another room, extra time, insulin medication, etc.). So there is always that risk. I would suggest your friend talk to her counselor (whoever is in charge) that has been giving her extra time for her exams in university (he or she may have experience with people taking nationalized tests with accommodations).
 
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Another question I would have is whether accommodations are given for USMLE exams, since part of the whole MCAT je ne sais quoi is to see how well one does on standardized exams. If they are available, then presumably the guidelines for getting them would be similar for both tests, and I would see no reason not to take accommodations for the MCAT.
There are a lot of what if's in the whole situation though, hopefully one of the resident adcoms will weigh in to answer some of them.

Would your student be willing to sit for the MCAT twice- once with and once without accommodations? That might be the easiest solution...
 
I had an asterisk on my score report because the test date got moved back two weeks for Florida test-takers due to Hurricane Charley hitting us on the date my test was originally scheduled. I didn't even know it until an interviewer at one OOS school asked me about it. No one else ever asked, but I'm guessing adcoms saw hundreds of asterisked score reports that year, especially the local schools, because so many of us were affected by the hurricane. (The MCAT was still only offered twice per year in those days, so we're talking about half of all Florida test-takers that year being affected!)

For your student, I think the bigger question is whether she intends to apply for accommodations during med school and residency. Because while I know premeds get fixated on the MCAT, it is only one in a long line of difficult standardized tests you all will be taking over the subsequent decade. If she does intend to ask for accommodations throughout, then why wouldn't she ask for them here? Her learning disability is not going to be a secret once she asks for accommodations from her med school, the USMLE, in-service exams, specialty boards, etc.

If she is not going to ask for accommodations for the rest of her training, why not? The MCAT is the easiest test she's going to take during her medical training. I'll say that again: the MCAT is the EASIEST test she's going to take during her medical training. So if she legitimately qualifies for extra time on tests due to a documented learning deficiency, it would behoove her to take advantage of that opportunity, and to continue doing so in med school and residency. Again, some of the standardized tests she'll be taking in the future will make the MCAT look like a cinch.
 
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Another question I would have is whether accommodations are given for USMLE exams, since part of the whole MCAT je ne sais quoi is to see how well one does on standardized exams. If they are available, then presumably the guidelines for getting them would be similar for both tests, and I would see no reason not to take accommodations for the MCAT.
There are a lot of what if's in the whole situation though, hopefully one of the resident adcoms will weigh in to answer some of them.

Would your student be willing to sit for the MCAT twice- once with and once without accommodations? That might be the easiest solution...

I remember checking the site for this information, but it seems more vague than the AAMCs site. The thing is you would assume your chances are the same if you get accommodations for the MCAT, you will get them for the USMLE. However, this is not the case. The NBME, who are in charge of the USMLE exam, seem to have even stricter guidelines than the AAMC. There have been medical students in the past who have had an extensive background of a learning disability having been denied accommodations for the step I. Even when they go to court, it is easier for the NBME to win a court case because medical school education is above the norm. Judges have deemed that ADA is meant to bring those with disabilities to the norm of society and not above. This kind of sounds ridiculous to me though IMO, because there are normal people who attend medical school (and they should be the comparison).

As for sitting one test with and one test without, it is tough to say how this will be interpreted. If she took the exam with accommodations in the first try, the adcoms won't know if she is capable with or without them. This is a good thing, especially if the score is very high. However, if it is taken without accommodations on the first try and she does bad but one the second she does good, then they will look at it more unfavorably. I am making assumptions at this point, but these are the perceptions that could possible happen at the decision table. The best case scenario would be if she took it without accommodations and got a 30. This is why it is a tough call. In all honesty, if she is okay with any school in the US, I would suggest taking it with accommodations the first time.
 
True, even Goro or Lizzy would not know either, but it does not mean they won't suspect the person had accommodations (another room, extra time, insulin medication, etc.). So there is always that risk. I would suggest your friend talk to her counselor (whoever is in charge) that has been giving her extra time for her exams in university (he or she may have experience with people taking nationalized tests with accommodations).

She did to no avail.
 
Take WITH accommodations.

Situation:

-Student is 38 years old.

-Is ready to take the 2014 MCAT, and will NOT consider preparing for the 2015 MCAT due to her age.

-AAMC has offered her time and a quarter for a learning disability. She is allowed to take the MCAT with normal time or with time and a quarter. The later is considered an "accommodation." The former is not.

-Her practice test scores range from 34-38 with accommodations (with extra time).

-Her practice test scores range from 28-32 without accommodations (regular amount of time).

What would you advise her to do? Should she take the 2014 MCAT with or without accommodations in your opinion?

Extra info:
cGPA: 3.4
sGPA: 3.6
Normal EC's
2 years of research, no publications
career changer, previously a mid-level manager in a unrelated field
has recent science coursework
not a racial minority or disadvantaged


(posted in Non-traditional due to student's age and because I'm looking for mature opinions)
 
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We never see if an applicant has accommodation. Maybe our wily old Admissions Dean, but not AdCom members. I suspect it might be a HIPAA violation.

I didn't know that. That seems to make the accommodations situation much more desirable. So most ADCOMS (non-Goros, non-LizzyMs) won't know an accommodated test from an earthquake, huh?
 
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We never see if an applicant has accommodation. Maybe our wily old Admissions Dean, but not AdCom members. I suspect it might be a HIPAA violation.

HIPAA violations can only be committed by health care providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses ('covered entities'). The AAMC is none of these things. Therefore HIPAA is irrelevant.
 
Not true. We as Faculty are not allow to share sensitive medical info about our students with one another...for example, if my advisee told me that she was depressed, or being treated for depression, I'm not allow to discuss this, even with course coordinators.

HIPAA violations can only be committed by health care providers, health plans, and health care clearinghouses ('covered entities'). The AAMC is none of these things. Therefore HIPAA is irrelevant.
 
obviously no contest take it with the ridiculously-unfair-to-others accommodation.
 
obviously no contest take it with the ridiculously-unfair-to-others accommodation.
:rolleyes: really?
nice for you that you've had a charmed life and never needed any help at all from anyone...
tacking an extra hour-ish onto a 5+ hour test isn't necessarily an exciting prospect.
 
Absolutely take it with the accommodations. If ANYTHING is different about your situation, you get the astericks. One of my fellow premeds had to get one for taking their inhaler into the room. There are numerous threads on here about how technically their aren't allowed to use this against you, blah blah blah, but it's all anecdotal with ZERO actual information saying that they really discriminate against it.

And sorry Greasy, but ridiculously unfair? Why don't you trying being a student with a disability and see how it actually is. I absolutely HATE the stance that so many on here take on this, and they are only taking that position because they feel people are getting somehow rewarded or a leg up. I guarantee you most of the legitimate people with accommodations, even using their accommodations are still at a disadvantage to people without learning or other disorders. This cutthroat callous only-care-about-me position is absolutely ridiculous for someone wanting to go into medicine. Getting an hour tacked onto your MCAT in no way relates to how you will perform as a doctor, and test anxiety is completely different then so often compared to "as a doctor you're going to have to make split second decisions" etc etc etc.
 
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Not true. We as Faculty are not allow to share sensitive medical info about our students with one another...for example, if my advisee told me that she was depressed, or being treated for depression, I'm not allow to discuss this, even with course coordinators.

It might be against the rules or policies of your institution, it might be unethical, and it might be illegal by some other law, but unless you are an actual health care provider it is not a HIPAA violation.
 
Uhhh. No. I am not a health provider and I can commit a HIPAA violation at the hospital I work at quite easily op.
 
Uhhh. No. I am not a health provider and I can commit a HIPAA violation at the hospital I work at quite easily op.

As an employee you are part of a 'covered entity' and can commit a HIPAA violation. A professor-student relationship doesn't fall under that umbrella. Goro is a PhD basic science instructor, not a therapist or an MD.

Regardless the AAMC is nothing even close to a covered entity and therefore their disclosure of health care information would not be a HIPAA violation.
 
ok so, as stated, you don't need to be a healthcare provider to commit a hipaa violation.
 
^ Disagree with above. It is just for examinations, not for patient care. Even in the case of work places, they are required by the ADA, to give "reasonable" accommodations. Once a person is given reasonable accommodations and they can't perform, then that is another matter...
 
^ exactly. I have had accommodations since high school, and for me personally, the difference between examination/test situations and "real world" is night and day. I hold a management position, have a high risk position with no room for error (Tissue and Supply Coordinator for an 18 OR facility), yet struggle with exams, partially due to medication side effects.

And SN12357, you're missing a minor part. ADA has its own confidentiality rules, and requests for accommodations and their details are covered and cannot be disclosed either by ADA or section 504. Also, I believe it would be covered under FERPA as well.

ADA rules are VERY strict.
 
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I think I'd try to do it honestly. Not like you get accommodated for patient care.
Actually, this is untrue. One of my physician colleagues is significantly physically disabled, and the rest of us in the group do accommodate him via schedule manipulation, restricted job duties, etc. He is able to perform his clinical job with those modifications. Given that someone who needs testing accommodations is unlikely to need the kind of physical accommodations that my colleague needs in order to see patients, it's silly to equate one with the other.
 
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From the way our administrators cringe at the thought of violating these rules, you can understand my confusion. We definitely err on the side of caution.

They go into convulsions when you start mentioning possible FERPA violations!

As an employee you are part of a 'covered entity' and can commit a HIPAA violation. A professor-student relationship doesn't fall under that umbrella. Goro is a PhD basic science instructor, not a therapist or an MD.

Regardless the AAMC is nothing even close to a covered entity and therefore their disclosure of health care information would not be a HIPAA violation.
 
I think ADA is even more stringent then FERPA, recently a case was won where the judge ruled that even non-factual information (a employee omitted on their medical form during application (they didn't put they had ADHD), which came up later with the facilities doctor, who then told admin/HR about the omission when the employee requested an accommodation). The fired employee won the lawsuit even with admitting the disclosure was of false information. It's that strict
 
I'll just say I'd personally rather see someone with physical disabilities to help me make healthcare decisions. Testing accommodations for learning disabilities for docs? Really?
 
Do you really think so highly of med school that you think they should be the only field where ADA doesn't apply? Just because someone has a learning disability they aren't allowed to become a dr, but a physical one then sure thats fine?

I'll make sure to tell a couple of my friends who are now wonderful docs just because they had a learning disability and received an accommodation they should give their board certs back because their accommodation tainted their pure blood status.
 
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I'll just say I'd personally rather see someone with physical disabilities to help me make healthcare decisions. Testing accommodations for learning disabilities for docs? Really?

Wouldn't it depend on the learning disability? It's extra time. They aren't allowing the student to have an open book test. Besides I think the scores even without accommodations prove this person is fairly competent.

Had to share in light of the the posts on this thread...
Knock Knock
Who's there?
HIPPA
HIPPA who?
I can't tell you that.
 
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