Which career should I pursue?

[enamelgonewrong]

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ib vs med/dental

undergrad student at a top ~25 uni considered an ib target here. I suppose my priority is overall highest quality of life. I am the type of person, however, to fixate on prestige, status, etc.

With ib, i save the time and money of dental or med school but work long hours in a very high cost of living city. Med or dental school on the other hand will eat up more time and money but if i make it into derma or orthodontics, from what ive read i could be looking at 400-500k with very minimal hours relative to ib/pe. Despite my fixation on status , i enjoy medicine much more than finance, but i wouldnt be going to any line of work for "passion" at the end of the day.

Im torn between long hours + high cost of living but making 500k+ down the road with over half being cash bonus taxed at flat rate of 25 percent vs. addition of 4 more yrs of school + residency, but potentially minimal hours , low cost of living (perhaps TX, AZ) , and still earning around 400-500k.

Couple concrete questions - how competitive is it exactly to get into dermatology and orthodontics? Also, if you start your own practice within either of these professions, is it possible to get the tax rate down using methods beyond just writing things off?? Could you somehow place yourself in the long term capital gains bracket by having your practice on paper owned by some other entity??

Any helpful advice is appreciated.

 

[Engrailed]

ib vs med/dental

undergrad student at a top ~25 uni considered an ib target here. I suppose my priority is overall highest quality of life. I am the type of person, however, to fixate on prestige, status, etc.

With ib, i save the time and money of dental or med school but work long hours in a very high cost of living city. Med or dental school on the other hand will eat up more time and money but if i make it into derma or orthodontics, from what ive read i could be looking at 400-500k with very minimal hours relative to ib/pe. Despite my fixation on status , i enjoy medicine much more than finance, but i wouldnt be going to any line of work for "passion" at the end of the day.

Im torn between long hours + high cost of living but making 500k+ down the road with over half being cash bonus taxed at flat rate of 25 percent vs. addition of 4 more yrs of school + residency, but potentially minimal hours , low cost of living (perhaps TX, AZ) , and still earning around 400-500k.

Couple concrete questions - how competitive is it exactly to get into dermatology and orthodontics? Also, if you start your own practice within either of these professions, is it possible to get the tax rate down using methods beyond just writing things off?? Could you somehow place yourself in the long term capital gains bracket by having your practice on paper owned by some other entity??

Any helpful advice is appreciated.

To clarify: By "ib," you mean, Investment banking. Correct?

 

[enamelgonewrong]

To clarify: By "ib," you mean, Investment banking. Correct?

yes, sorry for not clarifying. Im running on little sleep lol. ib = investment banking, specifically bulge bracket (should have said bb ib) , pe = private equity

 

[Engrailed]

Haha... okay... So let me throw my 2 cents in here.
I also live in a city with a high cost of living. Tons of finance folks around. Have friends in medicine/academia and finance
And let me spill the tea...

If you go after prestige and money, and particularly since you stated that you enjoy medicine more than finance, you will be sorely disappointed.
I kid you not. I have friends who have worked/work at some BB bank, Private equity, buyside/asset management etc, You name it and many of them are deeply unhappy inside. People confuse money with attaining happiness. It's non-correlational. There will always be someone making more than you and it will never be enough.

Also, dont think that medicine is shorter hours. IN fact, you might be working even longer hours for a longer period of time.

People in IB work max hours until the associate maybe even VP level, and then after that their life becomes more manageable.
In medicine, you would be consistently working long hours, even as an attending.
Don't bank on going into derm or some super specific specialty. People's interests change alot throughout med school and yes, they're competitive.

I don't know a lot about taxes.
If you want a more thorough comparison... you should throw your question out to WSO

 

[enamelgonewrong]

Haha... okay... So let me throw my 2 cents in here.
I also live in a city with a high cost of living. Tons of finance folks around. Have friends in medicine/academia and finance
And let me spill the tea...

If you go after prestige and money, and particularly since you stated that you enjoy medicine more than finance, you will be sorely disappointed.
I kid you not. I have friends who have worked/work at some BB bank, Private equity, buyside/asset management etc, You name it and many of them are deeply unhappy inside. People confuse money with attaining happiness. It's non-correlational. There will always be someone making more than you and it will never be enough.

Also, dont think that medicine is shorter hours. IN fact, you might be working even longer hours for a longer period of time.

People in IB work max hours until the associate maybe even VP level, and then after that their life becomes more manageable.
In medicine, you would be consistently working long hours, even as an attending.
Don't bank on going into derm or some super specific specialty. People's interests change alot throughout med school and yes, they're competitive.

I don't know a lot about taxes.
If you want a more thorough comparison... you should throw your question out to WSO

lol, to address the very last part, i know all about wso.. been lurking and occasionally posting on there since i was 13.

When you say sorely disappointed, which career exactly are u referring to? At first obv i thought finance, but then as you further described med and dental.. almost sounds like the answer is "both" =(

in finance typically arent u looking at ~80 hour week until vp but then it only decreases to something like 60 minimum? Still robust hours imo.

i was under the impression derma and ortho (from now on i will use ortho rather than the full name, should be assumed orthodontics and not orthopedic surgeon, dont wanna confuse anyone) have pretty relaxed hours, sometimes even half of what you experience in bb ib or pe. Am i just dead wrong, or are u simply urging me not to dial in on those specific specialties? Thats another issue.. if i didnt get into either one, i cant think of another id want to do in lieu of it.. and heading into med or dent school with the idea of there only be one singular residency u want when ur done is likely a super high risk recipe for disaster.

 

[gyngyn]

Right now there is no way to predict if you will get a derm residency.
Heck, right now I can't predict which of my kids is going to match in derm (ok, I can predict most of them!).
Even so, it will take at least 6 years of hard work (starting now) for you to be in a position to guess, maybe longer depending on your year of school and courses taken.
From what you have posted, there is little evidence that medicine would be a good choice at the present time.
I know nothing about orthodontics.

Perhaps in the future, you will have a different perspective. Medicine will still be here.
With regard to quality of life, I have served in a field rightly regarded as having long hours and high stress. I have always worked in the public sector at the lowest pay for my specialty. I can confidently say that I can look back with contentment and satisfaction. I have lived a rich life.

 

[Engrailed]

lol, to address the very last part, i know all about wso.. been lurking and occasionally posting on there since i was 13.

When you say sorely disappointed, which career exactly are u referring to? At first obv i thought finance, but then as you further described med and dental.. almost sounds like the answer is "both" =(

in finance typically arent u looking at ~80 hour week until vp but then it only decreases to something like 60 minimum? Still robust hours imo.

i was under the impression derma and ortho (from now on i will use ortho rather than the full name, should be assumed orthodontics and not orthopedic surgeon, dont wanna confuse anyone) have pretty relaxed hours, sometimes even half of what you experience in bb ib or pe. Am i just dead wrong, or are u simply urging me not to dial in on those specific specialties? Thats another issue.. if i didnt get into either one, i cant think of another id want to do in lieu of it.. and heading into med or dent school with the idea of there only be one singular residency u want when ur done is likely a super high risk recipe for disaster.

Prior to VP can be up to 100 hour weeks peak season. DO you want to live a life of no sleep and work in a cutthroat environment? Not saying that medicine isn't competitve but at least there's job security. Making it to VP and beyond is a gamble. Not everyone makes it that far and the industry has a high turnover rate because of how stressful and exhausting it is. That's why everyone wants to get to the "buyside" but few actually manage to do so.

Echoing what gyngyn said, you seem fixated on medicine ONLY if its some narrow specialty. I dont think you are as interested in the realm of medicine as you think you are/say. The core of medicine is helping others and I dont think your mindset is quite there.
Going into medicine is a journey for your entire life and if you're only focused on a specific subset of medicine, I suggest exploring other career options.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

Right now there is no way to predict if you will get a derm residency.
Heck, right now I can't predict which of my kids is going to match in derm (ok I can predict most of them).
Even so, it will take at least 6 years of hard work (starting now) for you to be in a position to guess.
From what you have posted, there is little evidence that medicine would be a good choice at the present time.

what are the gpa thresholds at med and dental school halfway through that would make it easier to have an optimistic prediction for derma and ortho ?


Do you think med is a poor choice based off of my concern regarding income and status? Normally id agree, but out of all professions i think medicine is the only one that id actually enjoy to some extent (best fit would be plastics/maxfac but i just cant add on another 3 yrs of residency , plus it doesnt have the same work/life balance as the previously mentioned specialties afaik).

Its tough.. i wish i enjoyed finance more , then there would be no decision to make.. but i worry if i had to spend 60-80 hours per week on excel id end up in the news as the analyst that jumped off the roof lol. Plus even if i were to grind it out and make it to more senior positions, idk how god id be at networking and bringing money into the firm on account of the fact that im prob weird.

 

[gyngyn]

what are the gpa thresholds at med and dental school halfway through that would make it easier to have an optimistic prediction for derma and ortho ?


Do you think med is a poor choice based off of my concern regarding income and status? Normally id agree, but out of all professions i think medicine is the only one that id actually enjoy to some extent (best fit would be plastics/maxfac but i just cant add on another 3 yrs of residency , plus it doesnt have the same work/life balance as the previously mentioned specialties afaik).

Its tough.. i wish i enjoyed finance more , then there would be no decision to make.. but i worry if i had to spend 60-80 hours per week on excel id end up in the news as the analyst that jumped off the roof lol. Plus even if i were to grind it out and make it to more senior positions, idk how god id be at networking and bringing money into the firm on account of the fact that im prob weird.

There is little about gpa that would predict an outcome 6 to 7 years from now (i.e. matching). Gpa is one factor in predicting if you can get into medical school.
Here's a little light reading: https://www.aamc.org/download/498250/data/usingmcatdatain2020medstudentselection.pdf
Page 15 is a good place to start.

If your would consider any specialty in medicine prestigious and are willing to put together a strong application that has evidence of the core competencies, you should re-consider medicine. Core Competencies for Entering Medical Students - Data and Research - Admissions - AAMC

 

[enamelgonewrong]

Prior to VP can be up to 100 hour weeks peak season. DO you want to live a life of no sleep and work in a cutthroat environment? Not saying that medicine isn't competitve but at least there's job security. Making it to VP and beyond is a gamble. Not everyone makes it that far and the industry has a high turnover rate because of how stressful and exhausting it is. That's why everyone wants to get to the "buyside" but few actually manage to do so.

Echoing what gyngyn said, you seem fixated on medicine ONLY if its some narrow specialty. I dont think you are as interested in the realm of medicine as you think you are/say. The core of medicine is helping others and I dont think your mindset is quite there.
Going into medicine is a journey for your entire life and if you're only focused on a specific subset of medicine, I suggest exploring other career options.

no i certainly dont want that. I thought they did away with the 90-100 hours after so many analysts were burning out, needing to see therapists to cope with the stress, losing their hair, hell im sure messing up their endocrine system etc and seeing a lot of talent getting siphoned off to silicon valley.

what do u think the burnout rate is among analysts at bb who dont make it to vp and beyond and fail to transition to the buyside?? I assume they all end up going into stuff like f500, prop trading, boutiques etc???

i certainly am not interested in the entire realm as a whole and including all of its facets.. not even close. But ive obsessed about some niches that i think id rather enjoy, although those arent even on my list due to hours and extra time for residency (plastics/maxfac , perhaps endocrinology as a far second). I also agree the core isnt helping others.. now dont misconstrue that as me being some callous sociopath lol, but altruism ofc isnt my primary motive for potentially entering the field.

I wouldnt know what other options to explore. Ive only ever considered careers that were even worth it to enter as follows: finance, med/dental, comp sci, engineering, law. I absolutely hate code and engineering , and i dont think id enjoy law. Some niche within dentistry or medicine and finance are the only options i see.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

There is little about gpa that would predict an outcome 6 to 7 years from now. Gpa is one factor in predicting if you can get into medical school.
Here's a little light reading: https://www.aamc.org/download/498250/data/usingmcatdatain2020medstudentselection.pdf
Page 15 is a good place to start.

meant med/dent school gpa, sorry for not being clear.

 

[bluepeony]

meant med/dent school gpa, sorry for not being clear.

Alot of the med schools now are P/F during preclinical years. The residency you go into is largely determined by Step 1 score.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

Alot of the med schools now are P/F during preclinical years. The residency you go into is largely determined by Step 1 score.

well, certainly shows my lack of prior research. Thanks for the info

 

[gyngyn]

well, certainly shows my lack of prior research. Thanks for the info

Step 1 score may also be P/F in the next few years.

 

[gyngyn]

Some niche within dentistry or medicine and finance are the only options i see.

I cannot recommend that you apply to medical school with the expectation that you will match into a niche specialty.
It will be almost a decade before you will know if you are likely to match into it and there is no way to predict it now.

The folks who seem to be most disappointed with their choice of profession are the ones who started with the expectations you have described.
This disappointment often happens even when they match into it... It doesn't take long to find cranky doctors in every field.

Choose this field when you feel a commitment to service and you will have a rewarding career.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

I cannot recommend that you apply to medical school with the expectation that you will match into a niche specialty.
It will be almost a decade before you will know if you are likely to match into it and there is no way to predict it now.

The folks who seem to be most disappointed with their choice of profession are the ones who started with the expectations you have described.
This disappointment often happens even when they match into it... It doesn't take long to find cranky doctors in every field.

Choose this field when you feel a commitment to service and you will have a rewarding career.

i see. Thanks for ur input, i appreciate it.

 

[zapproximator1]

If you're looking for highest quality of life, tech is where it's at. FAANG engineer, enterprise software sales, etc. generally 40ish hour weeks and 200-500k+ income. Obivously VHCOL, but in enterprise sales for example where you're closing cloud software deals with F500 companies (not prestigious as IB or medicine obviously) there are a ton of people in the industry who work remotely 30-40 hours per week and earn $200-400k, with some outlier years bringing total comp to $1M+. Especially for high-end sales, you can work remotely in a very cheap area (random Midwest town) and people joke that some of these people have the highest W2 other than professional athletes. It's a crazy, fairly hidden world.

Dad is a dentist and lots of family in medicine and dentistry, and dentistry has a way higher quality of life in terms of dollars to hours. However, dentistry is definitely taxing work physically, emotionally, mentally, etc.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

If you're looking for highest quality of life, tech is where it's at. FAANG engineer, enterprise software sales, etc. generally 40ish hour weeks and 200-500k+ income. Obivously VHCOL, but in enterprise sales for example where you're closing cloud software deals with F500 companies (not prestigious as IB or medicine obviously) there are a ton of people in the industry who work remotely 30-40 hours per week and earn $200-400k, with some outlier years bringing total comp to $1M+. Especially for high-end sales, you can work remotely in a very cheap area (random Midwest town) and people joke that some of these people have the highest W2 other than professional athletes. It's a crazy, fairly hidden world.

Dad is a dentist and lots of family in medicine and dentistry, and dentistry has a way higher quality of life in terms of dollars to hours. However, dentistry is definitely taxing work physically, emotionally, mentally, etc.

interesting, didnt know about the remote enterprise sales work.. i fear that id make for an awful salesman though and when i look up the averages and trends for the job, its nowhere near that of the niches in medicine and dentistry i am considering or ib. (not saying youre wrong , obv you know more about this than me but it sounds like that only describes the top , what, 10 percent? 20?.... if we were to go by only the top quartile lets say, all of a sudden ortho, derma, and bb ib total comp would likely surge past the figures quoted itt).

Regarding soft. engineering, i would never code , ever. Id sooner become a laundromat owner.

My family is also filled with dentists, doctors, and nurses, so from an early age i had exposure to that, but ever since middle school developed an odd obsession with preftige, around the time i first found out about top boarding schools and WSO (~13) lol. Although my father seems to have struggled a lot within dentistry (when he first opened his practice over a decade ago he told me he was making around 300k but worked p long hours.. then he grew it and hired lots of associates to the point where gross collections became impressive and he barely had to do any of the dental work anymore, but net income tanked , even losing money some years (check my other thread).. but as i said there i suspect it could be a case of embezzlement as he already discovered one of his staff misusing the company credit card close to 100k and thats just from the years hes checked thus far. Idk what to do about it to help him facilitate a possible solution, considering looking into a forensic accountant.. hes in his 60s now and doesnt have much saved and has to actively work full time and seems rather depressed. I suspect he has well above avg talent in dentistry, but below avg in running a company, accounting, general business savvy etc. Probably would have been better for him to stick to a one man operation as he had in the early yrs or hire an MBA as a manager and just make sure to check over p and l, payroll, and card statements each fiscal year.

 

[calipremed5768]

There’s a lot of things wrong with this post. Take it from somebody who went to a top target (Stanford,Chicago, MIT). Just because it’s a target doesn’t mean you will get an IB job. Most people who got IB jobs from my were on sports teams or had parents working at the firm in big positions. Second your numbers are way off. The 500 number is IF you get a job and IF you can get promoted. Most don’t get promoted from analyst and end up doing corporate finance which make far less. Don’t do IB for the money. Do what you’re passionate about. Period. Getting derm/ortho is easier than making it to VP/manager at a bulge bracket bank

 

[zapproximator1]

So, not to be overly analytical, but for your first paragraph I'll just go through your statements:

1) I fear I'd make an awful salesman
To be honest, a lot of sales is learned. I think trying an internship could be a good test. The born salesman, especially in SaaS, is a myth. SaaS requires a consultative approach and top sellers are fairly technical/nerdy and not the crazy stereotype you might imagine of a sales guy. Tech is a much different culture, and sales is a skill.

2) The median of sales is low and the top quartile of medicine//dentistry/finance is way higher than the top quartile of enterprise sales

First point: the median of sales is low.

I have three responses: 1) consider the average salesperson vs the average doctor 2) consider the hours worked 3) consider the opportunity cost

So for the first response: I think what you have to think about here is just the basic caliber of people entering sales vs subspecialties in dentistry or medicine. The "average" software sales rep graduated from some random college with not that great grades and probably has a lower level of drive/intelligence than an investment banker, dermatologist, or orthodontist. If you, as an intelligent person from a top college with potential to be an investment banker/doctor, and you hone your skills, you will easily be in the top quartile of reps.

Second response: software sales reps, especially in SaaS, work pretty great hours, typically between 30-45. When you compare that to investment banking's 80 hour weeks, and the dentist or dermatologist's medical school/residency hours, the hourly rate is generally pretty great in sales.

Third response: it's not quite a fair comparison to even expect sales to pay more than medicine/dentistry because of the massive opportunity cost. Medicine requires 8 years post-college to start practicing, during which you're working like crazy, accumulating 200-400k in debt, and not earning income. If you worked during those years and invested agressively, you would have a LOT of money in your retirement fund by age 65 that you would miss out on in medicine/dentistry. It's a simply massive opportunity cost. Of course, this doesn't hold true in investment banking, but I believe my second response very strongly does.

Second point: The top quartile of medicine/dentistry/finance is higher than the top quartile of sales.

You're comparing the top-of-the-top in general to the top 25% of a much much easier profession to break into. An investment banker is the quintessential definition of prestige. Target college, target internships, target preschool lol but seriously investment banking is a very hard profession to break into. A dermatologist or orthodontist is also the top of the top. The students with the highest GPAs/scores get into US MD schools. Then, once you compete with everyone there and make it to the top with the best grades etc. you might match into dermatology (or orthodontics for dental school). And then when you focus on the top quartile of THESE people, you have a very high-end group of people. Software sales is a pretty easy profession to get into, especially relative to IB/dentistry/medicine, so you need to focus on a much higher percentile to get to an even comparison. Sure, you can make more in banking, but for the combination of money, lifestyle, and future potential, sales is pretty great.

As cliche as it is don't do medicine for the money. Let me know your thoughts 🙂

 

[calipremed5768]

Also to get a job at FAANG you likely need to be a prodigy and or somebody who started coding when they were like 7 lol

 

[zapproximator1]

Also to get a job at FAANG you likely need to be a prodigy and or somebody who started coding when they were like 7 lol

To be honest, this is a stereotype that's not very accurate. FAANG these days is way less difficult to break into than people assume. You don't need to be a prodigy, or go to an Ivy League school, etc. Take a look at r/fatfire on reddit or watch some random FAANG YouTube channels like TechLead or Joma Tech. I know several people at Google and they are pretty normal people. Obviously, not every doctor could be a FAANG engineer, but I don't believe every FAANG engineer has the potential to become a doctor. They are different skillsets and I think it's odd how often FAANG engineering is compared to medicine. FAANG/Big Tech has hundreds of thousands of engineers, they aren't as elite as people assume.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

There’s a lot of things wrong with this post. Take it from somebody who went to a top target (Stanford,Chicago, MIT). Just because it’s a target doesn’t mean you will get an IB job. Most people who got IB jobs from my were on sports teams or had parents working at the firm in big positions. Second your numbers are way off. The 500 number is IF you get a job and IF you can get promoted. Most don’t get promoted from analyst and end up doing corporate finance which make far less. Don’t do IB for the money. Do what you’re passionate about. Period. Getting derm/ortho is easier than making it to VP/manager at a bulge bracket bank

almost all the ppl i know from boarding school, many dumber than myself and w lower gpas and non targets in some cases, are at banks like barclays and morgan stan. as analysts now, sans connections to the best of my knowledge. I agree w the high burnout rate though or inability to transfer to buyside or make it to vp+.

 

[enamelgonewrong]

So, not to be overly analytical, but for your first paragraph I'll just go through your statements:

1) I fear I'd make an awful salesman
To be honest, a lot of sales is learned. I think trying an internship could be a good test. The born salesman, especially in SaaS, is a myth. SaaS requires a consultative approach and top sellers are fairly technical/nerdy and not the crazy stereotype you might imagine of a sales guy. Tech is a much different culture, and sales is a skill.

2) The median of sales is low and the top quartile of medicine//dentistry/finance is way higher than the top quartile of enterprise sales

First point: the median of sales is low.

I have three responses: 1) consider the average salesperson vs the average doctor 2) consider the hours worked 3) consider the opportunity cost

So for the first response: I think what you have to think about here is just the basic caliber of people entering sales vs subspecialties in dentistry or medicine. The "average" software sales rep graduated from some random college with not that great grades and probably has a lower level of drive/intelligence than an investment banker, dermatologist, or orthodontist. If you, as an intelligent person from a top college with potential to be an investment banker/doctor, and you hone your skills, you will easily be in the top quartile of reps.

Second response: software sales reps, especially in SaaS, work pretty great hours, typically between 30-45. When you compare that to investment banking's 80 hour weeks, and the dentist or dermatologist's medical school/residency hours, the hourly rate is generally pretty great in sales.

Third response: it's not quite a fair comparison to even expect sales to pay more than medicine/dentistry because of the massive opportunity cost. Medicine requires 8 years post-college to start practicing, during which you're working like crazy, accumulating 200-400k in debt, and not earning income. If you worked during those years and invested agressively, you would have a LOT of money in your retirement fund by age 65 that you would miss out on in medicine/dentistry. It's a simply massive opportunity cost. Of course, this doesn't hold true in investment banking, but I believe my second response very strongly does.

Second point: The top quartile of medicine/dentistry/finance is higher than the top quartile of sales.

You're comparing the top-of-the-top in general to the top 25% of a much much easier profession to break into. An investment banker is the quintessential definition of prestige. Target college, target internships, target preschool lol but seriously investment banking is a very hard profession to break into. A dermatologist or orthodontist is also the top of the top. The students with the highest GPAs/scores get into US MD schools. Then, once you compete with everyone there and make it to the top with the best grades etc. you might match into dermatology (or orthodontics for dental school). And then when you focus on the top quartile of THESE people, you have a very high-end group of people. Software sales is a pretty easy profession to get into, especially relative to IB/dentistry/medicine, so you need to focus on a much higher percentile to get to an even comparison. Sure, you can make more in banking, but for the combination of money, lifestyle, and future potential, sales is pretty great.

As cliche as it is don't do medicine for the money. Let me know your thoughts 🙂

1.) speech impediment

2.1 - fair enough, avg md would translate to well above avg salesman if u adjust time spent on developing pertinent skills/accruing useful knowledge. Basically taking a 50th percentile within a group that prob has top drive and a median iq of 125 and plopping them into a group thats , on avg, far inferior.

2.2 - i agree although i sort of tossed out residency in terms of hours/stress (not opportunity cost and time obv ) because i imagine its comparable to analyst at bb ib, and unlike ib where ur prob never going to dip under 55 hrs / week, its finite and if u end up doing derma or ortho , ur hours could be similar to the salesman's. Id actually be interested to see avg hours/week and income by orthos and dermas who have their own practice.. could prob ask the accounting firm that my dad works with.

2.3 - like u sort of alluded to at the end, ties in w 2.2. Debt wouldnt be accumulated in this case but would still be coming out of my inheritance so its not as if the cost is nullified, just the absurd interest.

2.4 - yeah i see that now, ties into 2.1. Based on my track record of boarding school performance and college performance, i likely wouldnt be top quartile in ib, ortho, or derma.

If anything this thread has put me off from ib but hasnt replaced that interest with med/dent, lol.

Its decided, my career decision is as follows... be reborn with an 8 figure trust fund.

In all seriousness though, im going to have to sleep on this (both figuratively and literally seeing as how im deprived atm).

 

[HKSZYU]

Haha, a question I feel uniquely qualified to answer! Background, I worked as a Big 3 management consultant for several years, later got interested in both medicine and dentistry (and took both MCAT and DAT), and finally settled on dental school. At the end of the day, only you can choose what makes the most sense for you, but I can walk you through my thought processes. Since my background is in management consulting, this obviously won’t be apples to apples with your situation, but I think a lot of the pros and cons carry over. Sorry for writing a novel.

What I liked about consulting:

I actually found the field very intellectually stimulating. At the end of the day, the “product” you’re producing in consulting (and finance to a slightly lesser extent) is ideas, and I liked being paid just to work with teams to think up solutions. The perks of the job are great (tons of free travel, hotel/flight points galore, free meals, etc.) Also, if you’re not interested in the delayed gratification that comes with dental/medical fields, finance/consulting provides a much quicker path to financial success. Getting to a low $200k job in consulting/finance is doable within ~5 years at a firm. Getting above that gets trickier, since engagement manager/VP/managing director level promotions get cut throat and political.

What I didn’t like and why I left:

Consulting/finance hours are pretty terrible. I know residency hours are terrible too, but at least attending hours (for most specialties) are marginally better. For a lot of finance jobs, the hours don’t get better. You could try switching over to buy-side/venture capital, where hours are marginally more humane, but working from 7 to midnight every day, often out of hotel rooms far from friends and family wears on you eventually. More than that though (and this is just my opinion), I didn’t feel like a very productive member of society in consulting. I was making pitch decks for executives who weren’t going to read them about problems that I didn’t care about. So much of this space is just about making more money for people who don’t need more money. I felt like I could be using my skills for something better.

Why healthcare & why dentistry over medicine:

In medicine/dentistry, I felt the same degree of intellectual stimulation as from consulting, but after shadowing, I felt like the work I would be doing each day would actually matter. I was pretty torn between the two fields, and went pretty far down each road before making a decision. For me it came down to autonomy. While there are options for autonomy in medicine (derm, opthalmology, FM come to mind), dentistry is a field that has a lot of opportunities for private practice. I liked the idea of owning my own practice and with my management consulting background, I knew that the business aspects of running one would be easier for me than most dentists. Being an older applicant, I also liked that shorter amount of schooling required to get up and running, since there’s no mandatory residency. I’m planning on doing general dentistry and opening a practice with 2-4 years of graduation. On this road, I anticipate one day bringing in $300k+ on a 40 hour work week. You can’t do that in finance.

That said, there are drawbacks to dentistry as well. Dentistry is quickly reaching saturation, so if you have a strong desire to practice in an urban environment (NYC, LA, SF, etc.), I’d think twice, since the competition will be fierce and your compensation will be lower. Secondly, if you’re not interested in owning a practice, you’re likely capping your income potential around $180k, which, with the high cost of dental education (more expensive than medicine), may make this road less lucrative.

There was a lot more than went into the decision, but I’ve written a lot, so I’ll stop there. I’m happy to be a resource if you have any questions!

 

[zapproximator1]

Haha, a question I feel uniquely qualified to answer! Background, I worked as a Big 3 management consultant for several years, later got interested in both medicine and dentistry (and took both MCAT and DAT), and finally settled on dental school. At the end of the day, only you can choose what makes the most sense for you, but I can walk you through my thought processes. Since my background is in management consulting, this obviously won’t be apples to apples with your situation, but I think a lot of the pros and cons carry over. Sorry for writing a novel.

What I liked about consulting:

I actually found the field very intellectually stimulating. At the end of the day, the “product” you’re producing in consulting (and finance to a slightly lesser extent) is ideas, and I liked being paid just to work with teams to think up solutions. The perks of the job are great (tons of free travel, hotel/flight points galore, free meals, etc.) Also, if you’re not interested in the delayed gratification that comes with dental/medical fields, finance/consulting provides a much quicker path to financial success. Getting to a low $200k job in consulting/finance is doable within ~5 years at a firm. Getting above that gets trickier, since engagement manager/VP/managing director level promotions get cut throat and political.

What I didn’t like and why I left:

Consulting/finance hours are pretty terrible. I know residency hours are terrible too, but at least attending hours (for most specialties) are marginally better. For a lot of finance jobs, the hours don’t get better. You could try switching over to buy-side/venture capital, where hours are marginally more humane, but working from 7 to midnight every day, often out of hotel rooms far from friends and family wears on you eventually. More than that though (and this is just my opinion), I didn’t feel like a very productive member of society in consulting. I was making pitch decks for executives who weren’t going to read them about problems that I didn’t care about. So much of this space is just about making more money for people who don’t need more money. I felt like I could be using my skills for something better.

Why healthcare & why dentistry over medicine:

In medicine/dentistry, I felt the same degree of intellectual stimulation as from consulting, but after shadowing, I felt like the work I would be doing each day would actually matter. I was pretty torn between the two fields, and went pretty far down each road before making a decision. For me it came down to autonomy. While there are options for autonomy in medicine (derm, opthalmology, FM come to mind), dentistry is a field that has a lot of opportunities for private practice. I liked the idea of owning my own practice and with my management consulting background, I knew that the business aspects of running one would be easier for me than most dentists. Being an older applicant, I also liked that shorter amount of schooling required to get up and running, since there’s no mandatory residency. I’m planning on doing general dentistry and opening a practice with 2-4 years of graduation. On this road, I anticipate one day bringing in $300k+ on a 40 hour work week. You can’t do that in finance.

That said, there are drawbacks to dentistry as well. Dentistry is quickly reaching saturation, so if you have a strong desire to practice in an urban environment (NYC, LA, SF, etc.), I’d think twice, since the competition will be fierce and your compensation will be lower. Secondly, if you’re not interested in owning a practice, you’re likely capping your income potential around $180k, which, with the high cost of dental education (more expensive than medicine), may make this road less lucrative.

There was a lot more than went into the decision, but I’ve written a lot, so I’ll stop there. I’m happy to be a resource if you have any questions!

I know I'm not the OP but I absolutely love this post as someone who has considered both fields! 🙂 My dad is a dentist and yes, $300k for 40 hours is very realistic. Especially when you pair that with your clear business acumen, compared to most dentists, you'll be absolutely killing it. I also really appreciate your assessment of dentistry vs medicine. I feel like the autonomy/lifestyle/money/business ownership potential in dentistry is really attractive but the actual day-to-day of medicine seems more rewarding/interesting to me at least. I'm not sure if the trade-off is worth it, though.

How is dental school going?

 

[enamelgonewrong]

Haha, a question I feel uniquely qualified to answer! Background, I worked as a Big 3 management consultant for several years, later got interested in both medicine and dentistry (and took both MCAT and DAT), and finally settled on dental school. At the end of the day, only you can choose what makes the most sense for you, but I can walk you through my thought processes. Since my background is in management consulting, this obviously won’t be apples to apples with your situation, but I think a lot of the pros and cons carry over. Sorry for writing a novel.

What I liked about consulting:

I actually found the field very intellectually stimulating. At the end of the day, the “product” you’re producing in consulting (and finance to a slightly lesser extent) is ideas, and I liked being paid just to work with teams to think up solutions. The perks of the job are great (tons of free travel, hotel/flight points galore, free meals, etc.) Also, if you’re not interested in the delayed gratification that comes with dental/medical fields, finance/consulting provides a much quicker path to financial success. Getting to a low $200k job in consulting/finance is doable within ~5 years at a firm. Getting above that gets trickier, since engagement manager/VP/managing director level promotions get cut throat and political.

What I didn’t like and why I left:

Consulting/finance hours are pretty terrible. I know residency hours are terrible too, but at least attending hours (for most specialties) are marginally better. For a lot of finance jobs, the hours don’t get better. You could try switching over to buy-side/venture capital, where hours are marginally more humane, but working from 7 to midnight every day, often out of hotel rooms far from friends and family wears on you eventually. More than that though (and this is just my opinion), I didn’t feel like a very productive member of society in consulting. I was making pitch decks for executives who weren’t going to read them about problems that I didn’t care about. So much of this space is just about making more money for people who don’t need more money. I felt like I could be using my skills for something better.

Why healthcare & why dentistry over medicine:

In medicine/dentistry, I felt the same degree of intellectual stimulation as from consulting, but after shadowing, I felt like the work I would be doing each day would actually matter. I was pretty torn between the two fields, and went pretty far down each road before making a decision. For me it came down to autonomy. While there are options for autonomy in medicine (derm, opthalmology, FM come to mind), dentistry is a field that has a lot of opportunities for private practice. I liked the idea of owning my own practice and with my management consulting background, I knew that the business aspects of running one would be easier for me than most dentists. Being an older applicant, I also liked that shorter amount of schooling required to get up and running, since there’s no mandatory residency. I’m planning on doing general dentistry and opening a practice with 2-4 years of graduation. On this road, I anticipate one day bringing in $300k+ on a 40 hour work week. You can’t do that in finance.

That said, there are drawbacks to dentistry as well. Dentistry is quickly reaching saturation, so if you have a strong desire to practice in an urban environment (NYC, LA, SF, etc.), I’d think twice, since the competition will be fierce and your compensation will be lower. Secondly, if you’re not interested in owning a practice, you’re likely capping your income potential around $180k, which, with the high cost of dental education (more expensive than medicine), may make this road less lucrative.

There was a lot more than went into the decision, but I’ve written a lot, so I’ll stop there. I’m happy to be a resource if you have any questions!

sent u a pm , very helpful response .

 

[HKSZYU]

I know I'm not the OP but I absolutely love this post as someone who has considered both fields! 🙂 My dad is a dentist and yes, $300k for 40 hours is very realistic. Especially when you pair that with your clear business acumen, compared to most dentists, you'll be absolutely killing it. I also really appreciate your assessment of dentistry vs medicine. I feel like the autonomy/lifestyle/money/business ownership potential in dentistry is really attractive but the actual day-to-day of medicine seems more rewarding/interesting to me at least. I'm not sure if the trade-off is worth it, though.

How is dental school going?

So far so good! Interesting info, good classmates, and I'm enjoying the change of pace.