Which Dental Schools are Easiest

[impuny]

Don't know they were admitted this past year. Don't worry, they'll be given plenty of advantages the rest of the students won't get to make sure they get by.

I'm by no means completely in favor of AA, but a dental school can only offer so much help to whatever student they let in with a 14 DAT. At some point that student is going to have to take the national boards, and no amount of hand-holding will allow them to pass if they don't put in the effort themselves. Also, I find it hard to believe that professors will grade this student more lightly than others just to make it through dental school... unless you're assuming most of these professors are tools.
Whatever... either way, no student - minority or not- should be let in with such low scores. Just my random thoughts.

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[grant555]

Hey, I'm all for information, I will request a copy of that report and read it. I can point out one flaw in your argument. Just because 60% of an AA DDS's patients are black does not mean that those AAs are poor. Are you assuming because they are AA they are poor? I mean, nothing wrong with it, but an AA Dentist in a middle class area can have 60% of their patients also be AA, those that live in their middle class area. Hey, people want to go to a dentist they feel comfortable with. As with everything in society, we feel more comfortable with people we have more in common with. You still didn't address the fact that these dentists are assumed to treat low-income areas, which I can say for North Carolina is not the case. I simply brought it up for discussion, which is what this place is here for. My statements do not make me a racist, because I am not. It is a subject however that I feel I can state an opinion on without being labelled a racist or bigot. Why is any discussion around ethnicity so taboo?

Like I said, I have yet to read the article. I would be interested if the people those AA dentist see are low income or not, because that is the real problem.

I do not think you are a racist that was not the intent of the post. In my opinion, all the racists are on www.stormfront.org I just don't agree with some of the assessments about minority dentists and their value to their communities.

It doesn't bother me to talk about race. I like the trading of ideas intelligently instead of insults. Obviously, there is much to discuss.

More alarming, is the notion that someone got in with that low of a DAT. I think that is an indictment on the dental school more than the student. Why not level with the person, and encourage more studying with different methods and perhaps, with a tutor. Regardless of color, that shouldn't happen. However, I had the good fortune to attend the Baylor College of Dentistry SPEP program in which it was stated plan to us that the dental school did accept one man with a 16, a low score for Baylor where the avg DAT is a 19 or 20. Everyone in the program, was encouraged, drilled, and campaigned to study hard, and then some. I liked this approach. Anything worth having, is worth cracking a book to read.

I scored a 17 on the DAT, and was advised to take it again and that I had no chance to get in the school, while others may or may have not been told the same thing. I don't know. Maybe they had higher GPA's, better personalities, better preclinical skills (a full crown was made by the end of the program) who knows? It didn't bother me and still doesn't. There are over 50 dental schools, but I realize that everyone wants their first choice. I was so excited just to be there b/c it really helped me get ready for dental school, no matter where I ended up attending, which was the ultimate goal of the program.

The fact remains that there isn't fairness in anything. I must be getting desperate if I am quoting Bill O'Reilly, but it is true. AA is attempt to correct those problems. However, like most things meant to do good, it does more harm when someone acts without thinking long-term or admits someone who already has proven difficulty with standardized tests like the DAT b/c as someone mentioned, the boards are standardized. Then what? Admitting that person is probably setting them up for failure. Maybe that is the goal; a backward attempt to dismantle the credibility of AA. This is really farfetched, but possible. Who has this amount of time? Ah yes, the stormfront webmaster.

This is the main problem with racism: No one on this forum invented the problem, yet we are forced to coexist with its harsh realities; some more than others. If foolhardy generations before hadn't created these problems, we wouldn't have to have these conversations about race-based education programs or any other race laced issue. Lord knows I would love to walk out the door and not worry about prejudices and discriminations, but that is not reality.

Racism is not as clear cut as math. We can't simply pull out the integration tables and come to a solution with the comfort that the answers have been proven. That's how hard the racism problem is to solve in my opinion, it makes me long for the days of Calculus or, more appropriately, quantitative reasoning.

The only real escape is Church, Baseball, and more baseball. Man, I can't wait.

Also, I find it amazing that there is grading favortism for minorities. I have never seen or heard of it from any AA dental student I know here. I think the same argument is made about "attractive women." However, b/c I haven't seen or heard it doesn't mean it hasn't happened or still won't.

We have to remember that people are people, and they are going to do things they shouldn't do. Now, I'm quoting Rummie. (Forgive me fellow liberals, it's 4am).

In the end, this lack of integrity will do them in anyway. Anyone who is depending on a quota to make a career in dentistry won't last long anyway, regardless of their color. Dentistry is just too competitive and requires too much detail to let anyway who is not dedicated to be successful for very long, if at all. The market deals with them, and their dental doors close.

However, one professor did offer some insight as to why someone with competitive stats might not be admitted. His answer: "If you are a jerk, you might not want other people to know it." This leads me to think that people skills or personality play a role. How much or how little, depends on the respective dental school, and I have heard horror stories about literally all 54 of them.

However, the admission's committees have the tough task of increasing minority enrollment while maintaining the academic integrity of the school. I often try to put myself in their shoes, and it can be mindboggling.

Of course, if you don't get into your dream school after busting your hump, you will be pissed. I don't blame you, but realize why these problems are here, and take comfort in that when you do get in, you won't have to look over shoulder for Cheaters and the Tommy Grand camera crew.

Seriously, at some point, work ethic has to come into play, and the sooner the better.

Like I said, more could be done to start in the early stages of education. In fact, Baylor, to its credit, is unique b/c it has programs for high school students which I think is awesome.

It is okay though. We can disagree on same things and agree on others, but in my opinion, we have decades to go before these issues will be resolved. Take care and GOD Bless.

 

[aphistis]

I do not think you are a racist that was not the intent of the post. In my opinion, all the racists are on www.stormfront.org I just don't agree with some of the assessments about minority dentists and their value to their communities.

It doesn't bother me to talk about race. I like the trading of ideas intelligently instead of insults. Obviously, there is much to discuss.

More alarming, is the notion that someone got in with that low of a DAT. I think that is an indictment on the dental school more than the student. Why not level with the person, and encourage more studying with different methods and perhaps, with a tutor. Regardless of color, that shouldn't happen. However, I had the good fortune to attend the Baylor College of Dentistry SPEP program in which it was stated plan to us that the dental school did accept one man with a 16, a low score for Baylor where the avg DAT is a 19 or 20. Everyone in the program, was encouraged, drilled, and campaigned to study hard, and then some. I liked this approach. Anything worth having, is worth cracking a book to read.

I scored a 17 on the DAT, and was advised to take it again and that I had no chance to get in the school, while others may or may have not been told the same thing. I don't know. Maybe they had higher GPA's, better personalities, better preclinical skills (a full crown was made by the end of the program) who knows? It didn't bother me and still doesn't. There are over 50 dental schools, but I realize that everyone wants their first choice. I was so excited just to be there b/c it really helped me get ready for dental school, no matter where I ended up attending, which was the ultimate goal of the program.

The fact remains that there isn't fairness in anything. I must be getting desperate if I am quoting Bill O'Reilly, but it is true. AA is attempt to correct those problems. However, like most things meant to do good, it does more harm when someone acts without thinking long-term or admits someone who already has proven difficulty with standardized tests like the DAT b/c as someone mentioned, the boards are standardized. Then what? Admitting that person is probably setting them up for failure. Maybe that is the goal; a backward attempt to dismantle the credibility of AA. This is really farfetched, but possible. Who has this amount of time? Ah yes, the stormfront webmaster.

This is the main problem with racism: No one on this forum invented the problem, yet we are forced to coexist with its harsh realities; some more than others. If foolhardy generations before hadn't created these problems, we wouldn't have to have these conversations about race-based education programs or any other race laced issue. Lord knows I would love to walk out the door and not worry about prejudices and discriminations, but that is not reality.

Racism is not as clear cut as math. We can't simply pull out the integration tables and come to a solution with the comfort that the answers have been proven. That's how hard the racism problem is to solve in my opinion, it makes me long for the days of Calculus or, more appropriately, quantitative reasoning.

The only real escape is Church, Baseball, and more baseball. Man, I can't wait.

Also, I find it amazing that there is grading favortism for minorities. I have never seen or heard of it from any AA dental student I know here. I think the same argument is made about "attractive women." However, b/c I haven't seen or heard it doesn't mean it hasn't happened or still won't.

We have to remember that people are people, and they are going to do things they shouldn't do. Now, I'm quoting Rummie. (Forgive me fellow liberals, it's 4am).

In the end, this lack of integrity will do them in anyway. Anyone who is depending on a quota to make a career in dentistry won't last long anyway, regardless of their color. Dentistry is just too competitive and requires too much detail to let anyway who is not dedicated to be successful for very long, if at all. The market deals with them, and their dental doors close.

However, one professor did offer some insight as to why someone with competitive stats might not be admitted. His answer: "If you are a jerk, you might not want other people to know it." This leads me to think that people skills or personality play a role. How much or how little, depends on the respective dental school, and I have heard horror stories about literally all 54 of them.

However, the admission's committees have the tough task of increasing minority enrollment while maintaining the academic integrity of the school. I often try to put myself in their shoes, and it can be mindboggling.

Of course, if you don't get into your dream school after busting your hump, you will be pissed. I don't blame you, but realize why these problems are here, and take comfort in that when you do get in, you won't have to look over shoulder for Cheaters and the Tommy Grand camera crew.

Seriously, at some point, work ethic has to come into play, and the sooner the better.

Like I said, more could be done to start in the early stages of education. In fact, Baylor, to its credit, is unique b/c it has programs for high school students which I think is awesome.

It is okay though. We can disagree on same things and agree on others, but in my opinion, we have decades to go before these issues will be resolved. Take care and GOD Bless.

Nice post. I disagree with you on some of the political points, but this is very cordial and, more importantly, articulate.

 

[drat]

Nice post. I disagree with you on some of the political points, but this is very cordial and, more importantly, articulate.

Agreed, it's refreshing to read a well-thought post.

 

[ItsGavinC]

Nice post. I disagree with you on some of the political points, but this is very cordial and, more importantly, articulate.

Agreed. So refreshing to communicate in that manner.

 

[organichemistry]

it's really quite simple... affirmative action is not the answer. it does more to set minorities back than anything else. if i was a minority student and was accepted to dental school with decent, but not great, scores... like say a 17 DAT and 3.3 GPA... i would have no idea if i was admitted because i was a minority, or if i really impressed them in the interview, personal statement, whatever... that's not fair.

furthermore, when people see schools like howard and meharry letting in minority students with such poor scores, it gives people the idea that these minorities will not be as good dentists. fair or not, that could be the perception. although some minority students are knocking them dead with 22 DAT's and 3.9 GPA's, they may be unfairly lumped into a category of "he was only let in because he was a minority..."

so while affirmative action may seem like it helps minorities at the expense of whites, it really doesn't. sure, it unfairly utilizes reverse discrimination against whites, but it also lumps very qualified minorities into a category which is unfair to them. so really, you may have a very qualified black dentist, but because of affirmative action, the perception that he isn't as qualified may prevail.

affirmative action hurts ALL qualified people, regardless of race!

 

[The Godfather]

it's really quite simple... affirmative action is not the answer. it does more to set minorities back than anything else. if i was a minority student and was accepted to dental school with decent, but not great, scores... like say a 17 DAT and 3.3 GPA... i would have no idea if i was admitted because i was a minority, or if i really impressed them in the interview, personal statement, whatever... that's not fair.

furthermore, when people see schools like howard and meharry letting in minority students with such poor scores, it gives people the idea that these minorities will not be as good dentists. fair or not, that could be the perception. although some minority students are knocking them dead with 22 DAT's and 3.9 GPA's, they may be unfairly lumped into a category of "he was only let in because he was a minority..."

so while affirmative action may seem like it helps minorities at the expense of whites, it really doesn't. sure, it unfairly utilizes reverse discrimination against whites, but it also lumps very qualified minorities into a category which is unfair to them. so really, you may have a very qualified black dentist, but because of affirmative action, the perception that he isn't as qualified may prevail.

affirmative action hurts ALL qualified people, regardless of race!

I don't really think patient's perception really is hurt. As has been stated many times on this forum, most will never ask you where you went to school, etc. And if they live in an underserved area, they will just be happy to see a dentist at all. The only perceptions you'd have to worry about would be your peers, and if you are that concerned with that, you are going to make yourself miserable and old before your time. I understand your point, but if people are inclined to believe that any minority dentist only got in d school because they are a minority, they are probably going to always think that no matter what happens in the future with AA.
And to Grant555, I heard Fat Albert is an a**hole. I used to bartend with this guy who worked in Atlantic City at a hotel where Bill Cosby used to stay a lot, and he said he was a real pr**ck to the waitstaff and hotel staff (tipwise and in the elitist way he talked down to them). I read somewhere in some Dale Carnegie-like book that if you want to see what kind of person someone is, don't look at the way they treat their clients or peers, see the way they treat the waiter. Another good example of perception not being reality

 

[grant555]

I don't really think patient's perception really is hurt. As has been stated many times on this forum, most will never ask you where you went to school, etc. And if they live in an underserved area, they will just be happy to see a dentist at all. The only perceptions you'd have to worry about would be your peers, and if you are that concerned with that, you are going to make yourself miserable and old before your time. I understand your point, but if people are inclined to believe that any minority dentist only got in d school because they are a minority, they are probably going to always think that no matter what happens in the future with AA.
And to Grant555, I heard Fat Albert is an a**hole. I used to bartend with this guy who worked in Atlantic City at a hotel where Bill Cosby used to stay a lot, and he said he was a real pr**ck to the waitstaff and hotel staff (tipwise and in the elitist way he talked down to them). I read somewhere in some Dale Carnegie-like book that if you want to see what kind of person someone is, don't look at the way they treat their clients or peers, see the way they treat the waiter. Another good example of perception not being reality

I am sorry that you have a low opinion of Cosby, but I admire him for challenging AA's to increase their academic standards. There is a dearth of that in our community. I know this first-hand. If you don't believe me, go to Blockbuster and check out "The Year of the Bull." Whether Cosby is a A hole or not is irrelevant. There are A holes on this forum, but that doesn't mean that they are liars. Be Easy.

 

[Darksunshine]

To Grant555:

I have been reading your post's and all I can say is "WOW" at how well you express yourself. Seriously, it is very impressive. (Makes me wish I could do that... )

 

[DcS]

Good post grant, some well thought out points. This post is a good example of be able to disagree in a civil manner and have a good discussion. Some people should take notes.

I will shift to another thought I've had reading this, I'll be interested in seeing if you guys agree. All of our lives, we've had to deal with weeding-out, etc. Whether it be via SATs, upper level college science courses, the DAT, etc. I really figured that at such a high level of education with a DDS, I would be through with that. Unfortunately, I've come to the cold realization that nobody rewards simple hard work anymore. It's all about who you know, who's ass you kiss etc. My attempts to get into a residency will be hindered because i didn't spend the last 3 years groveling at the feet of a department staff. That's just how I am. But it's sad to me that even at this point of our educational careers, the things that truly matter, simply don't. I wonder if at my residency things will be different, since really there's nowhere else to go from there.

Any thoughts?

Oh yeah...think your Natinals will make it out of the cellar this year?

 

[grant555]

it's really quite simple... affirmative action is not the answer. it does more to set minorities back than anything else. if i was a minority student and was accepted to dental school with decent, but not great, scores... like say a 17 DAT and 3.3 GPA... i would have no idea if i was admitted because i was a minority, or if i really impressed them in the interview, personal statement, whatever... that's not fair.

furthermore, when people see schools like howard and meharry letting in minority students with such poor scores, it gives people the idea that these minorities will not be as good dentists. fair or not, that could be the perception. although some minority students are knocking them dead with 22 DAT's and 3.9 GPA's, they may be unfairly lumped into a category of "he was only let in because he was a minority..."

so while affirmative action may seem like it helps minorities at the expense of whites, it really doesn't. sure, it unfairly utilizes reverse discrimination against whites, but it also lumps very qualified minorities into a category which is unfair to them. so really, you may have a very qualified black dentist, but because of affirmative action, the perception that he isn't as qualified may prevail.

affirmative action hurts ALL qualified people, regardless of race!

As I said in my other post, I don't think Affirmative Action is the answer either. It has to start in underperforming elementary and high schools. At the very latest in high school, b/c in college it is so hard to play catch up.

At any rate, racism hurts all races as well, not just affirmative action. If there was no racism to begin with, there never would've been a call for affirmative action. After a while, it seems like finger pointing instead of problem solving.

Of all your statements, the comment about "qualified minorities" is the most telling to me b/c it goes back to something I mentioned before. No group has to apologize more for success than AA's. Except maybe the Yankees.

Keep one thing in mind, not everyone at Howard and Meharry are AA. Believe me when I tell you this.

The student that Baylor let in with a 16 was lilly white (no pun intended). Explain that. You don't have to. No one has to including Baylor. It is their school, and they can let in who they dam well please, which is why I blew it off my shoulder when I learned of the guy's stats.

You are right, that it is unfair. The system is broken largely b/c there are not enough spots period. In other words, it is mathematically impossible for every qualified applicant who is black, white, latino, asian, native american, revolutionary freedom fighter, whatever to get in.

If you have 1330 applicants for 90 spots (i.e. Baylor), there is simply no way that every qualified person can get in. An application is not a coronation, it is just an application with the hopes that you will be accepted based on a myriad of factors, not all of which are DAT and GPA.

I understand your frustration, but these were some of the answers thrown around when similiar questions arose about relatives of rich and influential alumni who were given special treatment. Favortism goes on all over the country, and I agree with you, it does hurt, especially when the favored aren't worth a nickel.

As a matter of fact, why don't we round up those varmits along with the rest of the rif raf and pop open the Pace Picanti Sauce and get a rope. I've obviously been in TX too long, but you know what I mean. It is a crap shoot on many fronts not just race and can be discouraging. Unlike some of my counterparts on this forum, I don't have answers to all the problems. Round these parts, we pissed and moaned for months to decide where to build the new Cowboys stadium nevermind anything on education.

Take care guys.

 

[The Godfather]

I am sorry that you have a low opinion of Cosby, but I admire him for challenging AA's to increase their academic standards. There is a dearth of that in our community. I know this first-hand. If you don't believe me, go to Blockbuster and check out "The Year of the Bull." Whether Cosby is a A hole or not is irrelevant. There are A holes on this forum, but that doesn't mean that they are liars. Be Easy.

If you read my post, I never said he was a liar. I just said I heard he was an a**hole. Props to him for his service to your community. Maybe he's one of those people that acts one way with groups and different with individual people. Who knows? He wouldn't be the first public figure that was guilty of that.

 

[texas_dds]

the best advice i ever got from my orthodontist was 'you have WANT to become a general dentist first - getting into ortho is a total crapshoot," and the same is for any residency so I am totally agreeing with griffin on this.
and if you are concerned about finding the 'best' pedo residencies you should look towards san antonio, ohio state, unc, michigan and others. depends on if you are trying to impress your colleages or your patients

 

[The Godfather]

"I understand your frustration, but these were some of the answers thrown around when similiar questions arose about relatives of rich and influential alumni who were given special treatment. Favortism goes on all over the country, and I agree with you, it does hurt, especially when the favored aren't worth a nickel."

You are dead on Grant555. Such favoritism is the "AA" of the priviledged that is brought up too rarely. Money talks, bulls**t matriculates. P.S Ditto on the Yankees!