Which DO schools have a cut off score of 6 or 7 on MCAT

[woodhorse22]

Which DO schools have a requirement of a minimum of 6 or 7 on a section of the MCAT? Not all websites have this information. So, please list any that you know. Thanks.

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[Round2]

Which DO schools have a requirement of a minimum of 6 or 7 on a section of the MCAT? Not all websites have this information. So, please list any that you know. Thanks.

PCOM, at their 2007 Open House, stated that they apply a cut of 8 on each part; doesn't matter if you have a 24 or a 38 total, you need the 8 on each part.
They also said they apply a hard cut for gpa, but they weren't concrete on where that cut was; got the impression it was about 2.9.

 

[Dr JPH]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that we as a profession are OK with mediocrity (or just plain poor performance) on standardized tests?

 

[dr.kicia]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that we as a profession are OK with mediocrity (or just plain poor performance) on standardized tests?

well...some of us may just simply suck at taking tests...I for instance am ESL and i am not even going to talk about how VR was making me want to cry. Does that mean that i would be a horrible doctor?
Standarized test are just as the name says standarized...there are always deviations from the standard...it's normal.
it also can go the other way and we can ask the question:"IS aceing the MCAT going to make someone a great doctor?"

 

[Dr JPH]

While Im not going to begin to revive this argument I will say that I personally dont care if someone is "bad at taking tests" or if english isnt your primary language.

You are applying to admission to a US medical school and therefore you should be expected, regardless of any outlying conditions, to meet certain minimum proficiency on the MCAT. Whether or not the MCAT is a good indicator of ANYTHING doesnt mean a whole lot because as of now, its a requirement.

The fact that we as the osteopathic profession are OK with people scoring at or below the 50th percentile on these exams is a bit troubling.

Now there is no true minimum for these exams. Its not like getting a 400 on COMLEX or 180 on USMLE, or even getting a 70 on your calculus test. This is an exam that is used across the board to compare one applicant to another, even if it is only in their ability to take a single exam on a single day.

Regardless, if we as the osteopathic profession continue to award poor performance with a pat on the back, a "get them next time" and a medical school acceptance then how do we ever intend to gain more credibility? We are setting ourselves up for failure at the start.

People want to get all up in arms when DOs do poor on the USMLE and make excuses...."well, we also take COMLEX". Bull$hit. We take students who, right from the beginning, cant take a test.

OK, so I lied. I revived the argument. Im leaving on vacation in 12 hours so I dont really care.

 

[dr.kicia]

and you probobly were the guys with 4.0 and 40 mcat right?

 

[Dr JPH]

and you probobly were the guys with 4.0 and 40 mcat right?

If youre not going to provide anything useful then just keep quiet. At least come back with some sort of valid point or information to contradict my statement rather than this childish eyeroll and upturned nose attitude. Youre entire reason for this response was to start an argument...to cause a problem, if you will.

As a potential candidate for medical school you should be at the point in your life where you can formulate a response and engage in a sensible debate. Instead, you chose to regress to 4th grade playground gibberish.

 

[dr.kicia]

If youre not going to provide anything useful then just keep quiet. At least come back with some sort of valid point or information to contradict my statement rather than this childish eyeroll and upturned nose attitude. Youre entire reason for this response was to start an argument...to cause a problem, if you will.

As a potential candidate for medical school you should be at the point in your life where you can formulate a response and engage in a sensible debate. Instead, you chose to regress to 4th grade playground gibberish.

Why would i keep quiet? This is a PUBLIC forum and i am as much entilted to my own opinion as you are.
i am not the one who started an argument. And maybe your discriminating comment was a reason for an "childlish" eyeroll...
There are thousands of doctors who came here from foregin countries who are fantastic physicians and who had trouble with passing standarized tests in other then their native language.
There is also thousands of doctors who had nearly perfect score in every single test they took and who are the doctors to which you would have never send your mother.
There are many of students who totally bombed their MCAT, went to Caribbean school and scored in upper 230-240 on their USMLE...so obviously MCAT wasn't any preformance predictor in their case.
So yes, i disagree with your statement that standarized tests should be looked upon as a valid predictor of one's future performance as a doctor.

Besides osteopathic schools have no choice but to allow the lower stats, otherwise each year there would be unfilled spots in all osteopathic schools.
It seems to change each year and DO becomes more competetive but there is still some pre-med generated stigma and a lot of people would rather go overseas then go to an osteopathic school.

 

[DocBR]

Is anyone else bothered by the fact that we as a profession are OK with mediocrity (or just plain poor performance) on standardized tests?

As un-PC as it may be, I agree with you JP. I hate when people post threads that probe to find the lowest acceptable performance. People post threads that essentially say

"What is the lowest possible score I can get and still be accepted?"

Will these same people one day say "How neglectful/lazy can I be in my responsibilities without having my license pulled?"

 

[Dr JPH]

Why would i keep quiet? This is a PUBLIC forum and i am as much entilted to my own opinion as you are.
i am not the one who started an argument. And maybe your discriminating comment was a reason for an "childlish" eyeroll...
There are thousands of doctors who came here from foregin countries who are fantastic physicians and who had trouble with passing standarized tests in other then their native language.
There is also thousands of doctors who had nearly perfect score in every single test they took and who are the doctors to which you would have never send your mother.
There are many of students who totally bombed their MCAT, went to Caribbean school and scored in upper 230-240 on their USMLE...so obviously MCAT wasn't any preformance predictor in their case.
So yes, i disagree with your statement that standarized tests should be looked upon as a valid predictor of one's future performance as a doctor.

Few things.

1. I didnt discriminate against anyone. If you cant do well on the test, you shouldnt be allowed to attend medical school.

2. I would love to meet some of these doctors of whom you speak that got a perfect MCAT but are bad physicians. With thousands of them out there, it should be easy to locate at least one.

3. I never said MCAT was correlated with performance as a physician...I dont know where you got that from.

4. If you cant pass a test in english then how do you expect to go on and become a physician with a largely english speaking patient population? If you cant have a basic level of comprehension so that you can do well on the verbal portion of the MCAT, how are you going to be able to properly educate patients using the english language? Im not saying people from other countries cant be doctors. If you want to be a physician in Israel you are required by law to be fluent in Hebrew. Same should be said for practice in the US. The verbal portion of the MCAT is not written at a comprehension level beyond what is expected of a physician. Logic would say that if you cannot pass that then you cannot adequately communicate with your patients in english. Patient-physician miscommunication can be blamed for injury and death in many cases...as can physician-nurse and physician-pharmacist miscommunication. Ability to comprehend, communicate and completely understand the english language isnt discrimination, its a mean of protection.

 

[dr.kicia]

Few things.

1. I didnt discriminate against anyone. If you cant do well on the test, you shouldnt be allowed to attend medical school.

2. I would love to meet some of these doctors of whom you speak that got a perfect MCAT but are bad physicians. With thousands of them out there, it should be easy to locate at least one.

3. I never said MCAT was correlated with performance as a physician...I dont know where you got that from.

4. If you cant pass a test in english then how do you expect to go on and become a physician with a largely english speaking patient population? If you cant have a basic level of comprehension so that you can do well on the verbal portion of the MCAT, how are you going to be able to properly educate patients using the english language? Im not saying people from other countries cant be doctors. If you want to be a physician in Israel you are required by law to be fluent in Hebrew. Same should be said for practice in the US. The verbal portion of the MCAT is not written at a comprehension level beyond what is expected of a physician. Logic would say that if you cannot pass that then you cannot adequately communicate with your patients in english. Patient-physician miscommunication can be blamed for injury and death in many cases...as can physician-nurse and physician-pharmacist miscommunication. Ability to comprehend, communicate and completely understand the english language isnt discrimination, its a mean of protection.

Being fluent in English has nothing to do with your performance on the VR portion of MCAT. Otherwise ppl who are born here would not be getting low scores in that section. Besides let's be honest...who the heak communicates in a way that VR on the MCAT is written?

But ofcourse if you are taking a tough test in a different language it becomes even tougher.
Statistically it is proved that ESL ppl have difficulty with VR on the MCAT.
For me the difficulty was mainly because of my reading speed, not my comprehenssion.

 

[mommy2three]

2. I would love to meet some of these doctors of whom you speak that got a perfect MCAT but are bad physicians. With thousands of them out there, it should be easy to locate at least one.

i have no idea of his mcat but i can name one doctor who was a BAD physician. when i was 7 months pg and having gallbladder issues he a general surgeon (who also specialized in bariatric surgery and was my bariatric physician at the time for my post gastric bypass care) REFUSED...flat out REFUSED to even treat me because i was pregnant and because my ob/gyn did not go to the same hospital as he did (i needed to be able to deliver at a hospital with a level II nicu per his instructions which the hospital he used did not have). oh and not only did he refuse to treat me he also decided i was dehydrated while sitting 7 ft away from me across the room in his chair WITHOUT laying a hand on me whatsoever.

needless to say i have since found a more compassionate not having his head up his rear bariatric surgeon for my care.

 

[Dr JPH]

being fluent in English has nothing to do with your performance on the VR portion of MCAT. Otherwise ppl who are born here would not be getting low scores in that section. Besides let's be honest...who the heak communicates in a way that VR on the MCAT is written?

So there is no reason that someone for whom English is a second language should do poorly on the VR MCAT other than the fact that they are a poor test taker.

You're right...VR MCAT isnt about communication, its about comprehension. And without the ability to comprehend, communication is hindered.

You just supported 2 of my main arguments.

 

[Dr JPH]

i have no idea of his mcat but i can name one doctor who was a BAD physician. when i was 7 months pg and having gallbladder issues he a general surgeon (who also specialized in bariatric surgery and was my bariatric physician at the time for my post gastric bypass care) REFUSED...flat out REFUSED to even treat me because i was pregnant and because my ob/gyn did not go to the same hospital as he did (i needed to be able to deliver at a hospital with a level II nicu per his instructions which the hospital he used did not have). oh and not only did he refuse to treat me he also decided i was dehydrated while sitting 7 ft away from me across the room in his chair WITHOUT laying a hand on me whatsoever.

needless to say i have since found a more compassionate not having his head up his rear bariatric surgeon for my care.

I dont blame the surgeon. A potential risky operation on a pregnant post-bariatric patient in a hospital ill-equipped to handle the potential complications. You should be thanking your surgeon.

Hands dont diagnose dehydration...numbers and common sense do.

 

[dr.kicia]

So there is no reason that someone for whom English is a second language should do poorly on the VR MCAT other than the fact that they are a poor test taker.

You're right...VR MCAT isnt about communication, its about comprehension. And without the ability to comprehend, communication is hindered.

You just supported 2 of my main arguments.

it's pointless to have a conversation with someone who in their narrow mind just wants to be proven right.
Ok you are right, if i score 6 on my VR and 11 on my PS and BS they should reject me without even looking at my application, because that means I am a very bad standarized test taker...and doctors should be ONLY a very good test takers, because that is one of the most important characteristics of a future doctor.
Geez...
i am done responding to you. I am not into fighting on anonimous forums so i can boost my self-esteem.

 

[Dr JPH]

it's pointless to have a conversation with someone who in their narrow mind just wants to be proven right.
Ok you are right, if i score 6 on my VR and 11 on my PS and BS they should reject me without even looking at my application, because that means I am a very bad standarized test taker...and doctors should be ONLY a very good test takers, because that is one of the most important characteristics of a future doctor.

See, youre getting yourself confused again.

If you score a 6 on the verbal portion of the MCAT I would question your ability to comprehend the english language. And because the complete use of the english language is necessary to communicate with patients and other members of the healthcare team, I would be worried about that.

Your ability to take a standardized test means nothing in that assessment.

Its not inability to take a test, but rather the inability to at least attain minimum proficiency in whatever aspect the exam is testing...in the case of verbal, its english comprehension.

I dont know how I can state it more clearly.

 

[t-funk]

OSUCOM has a cutoff of 7 per section. I'm only applying to 4 others at this point and to my knowledge, there is no cutoff at any of those schools. If I get any lower on my MCAT than a 7, I will retake and I will seriously reconsider with a 7 on any section.

Anyway, I took the May 31st exam and am petrified about the results of my exam on the BS section. I felt very prepared averaging 9s and 10s on the BS section in practice tests and higher for the other two sections. But this exam threw me for a loop and was way different than I was prepared for. I studied for 4 months almost every night with a full time job and 2 kids. I'm nervous that I may have gotten a 8 or 7 or even less on the BS section. That does not mean that I am satified with mediocrity in the slightest or even that I am a poor test taker. Sometimes you just can't predict what the MCAT will throw at you. I don't think there is anything wrong with someone wanting to know what kind of a low score they should be satified with and not have to retake. For me, it's a 28 and at least an 8 on each section. If I were single and had no kids, no full-time job, and could afford a Kaplan course, my lower limit would have been much higher. Some people may not be satified with anything less than an 11 which is not even realistic for my personal situation. For others, it may be lower than a 8 due to their own personal situations.

 

[Dr JPH]

I don't think there is anything wrong with someone wanting to know what kind of a low score they should be satified with and not have to retake.

But knowing the minimum score you need to get your application accepted shouldnt be your goal.

 

[Ilikescience]

Few things.

JP I normally have a lot of respect for your arguments, but I think this one is weak.

1. I didnt discriminate against anyone. If you cant do well on the test, you shouldnt be allowed to attend medical school.

Discrimination is a form of an opinion and it is YOUR OPINION that a person who does not get above an 8 in each section should not be allowed to attend medical school.

2. I would love to meet some of these doctors of whom you speak that got a perfect MCAT but are bad physicians. With thousands of them out there, it should be easy to locate at least one.

The doctor that diagnosed my father with an ulcer when he was having a heart attack. He received a 35 on his MCAT.

3. I never said MCAT was correlated with performance as a physician...I dont know where you got that from.

how about your argument #1 and #2. If you don't believe there is a correlation between the MCAT and performance then why do you believe a person with a lower MCAT should not be given the chance to become a doctor or your dually noted sarcasm about how easy it is to find a bad doctor with a high MCAT?

4. If you cant pass a test in english then how do you expect to go on and become a physician with a largely english speaking patient population? If you cant have a basic level of comprehension so that you can do well on the verbal portion of the MCAT, how are you going to be able to properly educate patients using the english language? Im not saying people from other countries cant be doctors. If you want to be a physician in Israel you are required by law to be fluent in Hebrew. Same should be said for practice in the US. The verbal portion of the MCAT is not written at a comprehension level beyond what is expected of a physician. Logic would say that if you cannot pass that then you cannot adequately communicate with your patients in english. Patient-physician miscommunication can be blamed for injury and death in many cases...as can physician-nurse and physician-pharmacist miscommunication. Ability to comprehend, communicate and completely understand the english language isnt discrimination, its a mean of protection.

Cause every one I know who scored >8 VR is the best communicator, especially those who scored >12. I noticed they were really good at connecting with people.

You make some very strong statements that alienate people who may not have made the almighty 8 in each section. Whether the reason being English as a second language, learning/physical disability or just poor test taking skills everyone applying to medical school in some way or another believes they would make a good doctor. Some may and some may not. In my experience, just because a person scores lower than an 8 in any section is not indicative of there ability to comprehend material or communicate their knowledge, it just separates them as a stat to make it easier for admission boards. Vice Versa, a person with a 40 MCAT does not always equal great doc.

 

[t-funk]

I would guess, however, that the average pre-med applicant without something special about their app who applies with the lowest score that they believe will get them accepted, probably will not get accepted.

The MCAT is a somewhat controlable factor in the process, why not give the adcoms absolutely no reason question it. In that sense, I agree with you.

 

[Dr JPH]

Your example above with your father is flawed for several reasons. First of all, you are taking a saracastic comment and trying to use it as an example. Also a 35 MCAT is far from perfect.

Plain and simple, if you cant cut it on the test that we use to determine acceptance then you shouldnt be accepted. Im not the one writing the MCAT nor and I the one that condones its use as a measure for medical school performance.

All I am saying is that medical schools put forth this requirement and those who fail to meet a certain expected competency shouldnt be accepted. And looking for the lowest score that can still allow you to become a physician is a poor precedent to set.

 

[Dr JPH]

And where does everyone keep getting this "MCAT makes a great doc" statement? I never said that once.

I think some of you have trouble with english comprehension, regardless of your VR MCAT score.

 

[Doc2007]

There are several reasons for one to get lower score in VR. My score was low but it was because I only finished six passages becasue of time limits. If I had enough time to finish all nine passages, I would have scored nine. English is my second language. I also worked full time and attended full time school. Nobody seems to have problem understanding me and I have done several presentations at my work infront of several people and have received awards for excellent work. It all depends. I don't know if VR score can used to interpret communication capabilities of an individual.

 

[Dr JPH]

There are several reason for one to get lower score in VR. My score was low but it was because I only finished six passages due to time limit. If I had enough time to finish all nine passages, I would have scored atlest nine. I have English as second language. I also worked full time and attended full time school. Nobody seems to have problem understanding me and I have done several presentation at my work infront of several people and have received awards for excellent work. It all depends. I don't know if VR score can used to interpret communication capabilities of an individual.

Well, there you go. Debate solved.

By the way, I highlighted a few mistakes above.

 

[Doc2007]

Well, there you go. Debate solved.

By the way, I highlighted a few mistakes above.

Thank you so much. I learn from my mistakes.

 

[Ilikescience]

And where does everyone keep getting this "MCAT makes a great doc" statement? I never said that once.

I think some of you have trouble with english comprehension, regardless of your VR MCAT score.

Well Dr. Hazelton, i believe quite the opposite. Don't you remember implications as an important factor in argument dissection for VR. In your arguments you definitely implied you believe a good MCAT score is correlated to the quality of a doctor. Hence, it would weaken your argument for not being allowed into medical school due to incompetency.

 

[Dr JPH]

Well Dr. Hazelton, i believe quite the opposite. Don't you remember implications as an important factor in argument dissection for VR. In your arguments you definitely implied you believe a good MCAT score is correlated to the quality of a doctor. Hence, it would weaken your argument for not being allowed into medical school due to incompetency.

A good MCAT score is related to the ability for good communication.

Good doctors have good communication skills.

Perhaps thats a link, but certainly not the only one. You cant make a jump from a 10 on the verbal to a great physician.

I believe a good MCAT score shows that someone has the ability to perform well on a test, understand and comprehend the material being tested and meet certain requirements for admission to medical school.

Its not up to the MCAT to make you a great doctor, but without a minimum level of competency you will never gain that chance...nor should you.

 

[Noeljan]

Cause every one I know who scored >8 VR is the best communicator, especially those who scored >12. I noticed they were really good at connecting with people.

You make some very strong statements that alienate people who may not have made the almighty 8 in each section. Whether the reason being English as a second language, learning/physical disability or just poor test taking skills everyone applying to medical school in some way or another believes they would make a good doctor. Some may and some may not. In my experience, just because a person scores lower than an 8 in any section is not indicative of there ability to comprehend material or communicate their knowledge, it just separates them as a stat to make it easier for admission boards. Vice Versa, a person with a 40 MCAT does not always equal great doc.

No offense, but in most cases I don't really buy the whole "learning disability" or "poor test taking" skill that many a premed complain about. Sure, if someone is dyslexic I can understand that. BUT, I have known a few people that get lots of extra time on tests because of such said "disabilities" or "test skills". I have straight up talked to people who have told me they get so much extra time because they have trouble processing everything....They also got extra time on the SAT and trying to get it on the MCAT (I guess for the MCAT it's not that easy). Well my argument to that is, what the heck are you going to do when all that pressure is on you and on the spot you HAVE to be able to process information and come up with an immediate solution? When someone is coding can you say, wait I need more time to process this because I have trouble integrating things in the same time frame that others do?well WTF if I got a few extra hours on the MCAT I would have gotten a 43. I honestly don't think it is safe to have doctors who can't process things. It's just not realistic.

 

[Playmakur42]

The VR section serves a very important purpose. With the vast amount of information thrown at students in med school, a higher VR correlates with a better understanding of the English language and the ability to understand what you've read quickly.

One could logically conclude, those with a high VR score will be able to understand their study materials more efficiently and thus be more likely to succeed in medical school. Those with lower VR scores either 1.) don't understand English very well or 2.) read slower than high scorers. 1 will be very hard to overcome, and 2 can be overcome with a great work ethic.

I don't think the VR score is used to directly assess communication skills. Some of the dumbest people I know are great communicators because they make great use of inflection, enunciation, eye contact, body language, etc to make people "listen" rather than hear. They rarely use big words or long sentences.

 

[mommy2three]

I dont blame the surgeon. A potential risky operation on a pregnant post-bariatric patient in a hospital ill-equipped to handle the potential complications. You should be thanking your surgeon.

Hands dont diagnose dehydration...numbers and common sense do.

hands can aid in the diagnosis of dehydration by the feel of skin and also the pull test...so that would have helped. he also could have used his hands to move my lips and examine my gum area to see if i showed any signs of dehydration there.

and it was not a surgery situation...i have gallbladder sludge post-bypass and was having a flare up which was causing me to be in a lot of pain.

he was the one who referred me to the ob i was seeing due to the nicu at the hospital...he could have easily gone there he CHOSE not to.

 

[Beau Geste]

I also think the MCAT is a useful tool. I was irritated that the May 31 exam was not representative of the AAMC practice tests I shelled out almost $300 for.

I also think that while numbers indicate ability to process information, i agree with the VR being a comprehension test, not communication test. Intelligence does not always equal social skills.

I also think it's silly to have this argument. It makes me think back to a defensive driving course I had to take and remember the course's mantra "Why am I angry?"

 

[Beau Geste]

The first allergist I went to refused to return phone calls with my lab results. I ended up going to a different allergist and had new lab tests done. That was a bad doctor. Very bad doctor!

 

[Ilikescience]

I honestly don't think it is safe to have doctors who can't process things. It's just not realistic.

Don't want to get into this debate at the moment.

Please read for your reference:
Americans with Disability Act

It may help clear up some of your confusion about persons with disabilities in education and professions.

 

[Dr JPH]

hands can aid in the diagnosis of dehydration by the feel of skin and also the pull test...so that would have helped. he also could have used his hands to move my lips and examine my gum area to see if i showed any signs of dehydration there.

Can AID in the diagnosis, but not necessary. Your doctor not rooting around in your mouth doesnt compromise his ability to make the diagnosis. Youre reaching for something. And trust me, I am well aware of how to make a diagnosis of dehydration but thank you for the thorough review. I will be sure to put it on a note card.

Sounds like youre upset about something else.

and it was not a surgery situation...i have gallbladder sludge post-bypass and was having a flare up which was causing me to be in a lot of pain.

Non surgical issue...why get pissed at the surgeon? Youre upset that he made the correct diagnosis, refused to treat you at a facility that wasnt able to handle your needs and that he didnt take you under his care for a NON surgical issue.

That simply doesnt make any sense.

Sounds like your should have been upset at the GI doc for not getting the ERCP done in time.

he was the one who referred me to the ob i was seeing due to the nicu at the hospital...he could have easily gone there he CHOSE not to.

He chose not to go to another hospital? Does he have privelages there? What was his OR schedule like?

Youre making a lot of excuses and demands as a patient that are unrealistic.

Youve got a lot to learn about the real world practice of medicine if you ever get the chance to become a doctor. And if are so fortunate, hopefully you wont have any patients that act like you.

 

[Krazykritter]

hands can aid in the diagnosis of dehydration by the feel of skin and also the pull test...so that would have helped. he also could have used his hands to move my lips and examine my gum area to see if i showed any signs of dehydration there.

and it was not a surgery situation...i have gallbladder sludge post-bypass and was having a flare up which was causing me to be in a lot of pain.

he was the one who referred me to the ob i was seeing due to the nicu at the hospital...he could have easily gone there he CHOSE not to.

It's too bad you felt you had a bad surgeon who wasn't very compassionate w/ you, but I completely agree w/ JP's assessment in an earlier post. Your surgeon did you a favor. If your problem wasn't surgical, it really wasn't his issue especially since he probably wasn't accustomed to dealing w/ many late stage pregnancy patients. A proper referral should have landed you in the hands of a Gastroenterologist or OB.

It's easy to throw blame around & make generalizations, but if you look objectively at the situation, I bet you (as the surgeon) wouldn't have treated something you were uncomfortable w/ either.

 

[Noeljan]

Don't want to get into this debate at the moment.

Please read for your reference:
Americans with Disability Act

It may help clear up some of your confusion about persons with disabilities in education and professions.

and your point is?

 

[Dr JPH]

It's too bad you felt you had a bad surgeon who wasn't very compassionate w/ you, but I completely agree w/ JP's assessment in an earlier post. Your surgeon did you a favor. If your problem wasn't surgical, it really wasn't his issue especially since he probably wasn't accustomed to dealing w/ many late stage pregnancy patients. A proper referral should have landed you in the hands of a Gastroenterologist or OB.

It's easy to throw blame around & make generalizations, but if you look objectively at the situation, I bet you (as the surgeon) wouldn't have treated something you were uncomfortable w/ either.

Right on.

What could the surgeon have done anyway?

First of all, if youre pregnant and in the hospital you are going to have more than one physician on your case. If youre otherwise healthy and dehydrated then someone dropped the ball and the surgeon was cleaning up the mess.

I assume you came in through the ER. Why didnt the ER docs correct your dehydrated state?

Maybe you didnt come in through the ER. Why didnt the primary on the case correct your dehydrated state?

If the surgeon was the primary then he did the right thing. He recognized the clinical and laboratory signs of dehydration and responded appropriately. Made the diagnosis, likely ordered fluids and fixed the problem.

Now youre pregnant. Well, OB needs to be on this one too. OB calls the shots on pregnant patients. You had a non surgical issue so the fact that the surgeon didnt want to see you or wanted to send you to a facility that was better equipped to handle the fetus, thats a damn good thing.

Sounds to me like your surgeon is not only astute in his ability to recognize yoru diagnosis, but he is also concerned enough about the well being of both you and the unborn baby that he wont do anything to compromise the health of either of you.

Yorue acting like the typical ignorant patient who thinks they know more about medicine than the doctor. Your surgeon went to 4 years of medical school and at least 5 years of residency. 9 years of training makes him better at giving medical care than you. And he probably got > 6 or 7 on his MCAT.

As I said above...you should be thanking him rather than bashing him.

Maybe a card with a picture of your daughter that says "this girl is alive because of you" would be appropriate.

 

[Doc2007]

No offense, but in most cases I don't really buy the whole "learning disability" or "poor test taking" skill that many a premed complain about. Sure, if someone is dyslexic I can understand that. BUT, I have known a few people that get lots of extra time on tests because of such said "disabilities" or "test skills". I have straight up talked to people who have told me they get so much extra time because they have trouble processing everything....They also got extra time on the SAT and trying to get it on the MCAT (I guess for the MCAT it's not that easy). Well my argument to that is, what the heck are you going to do when all that pressure is on you and on the spot you HAVE to be able to process information and come up with an immediate solution? When someone is coding can you say, wait I need more time to process this because I have trouble integrating things in the same time frame that others do?well WTF if I got a few extra hours on the MCAT I would have gotten a 43. I honestly don't think it is safe to have doctors who can't process things. It's just not realistic.

Processing scientific information is easier than trying to understand an article on abstract piece of art.

 

[Noeljan]

Processing scientific information is easier than trying to understand an article on abstract piece of art.

depends on the person

 

[Dr JPH]

Processing scientific information is easier than trying to understand an article on abstract piece of art.

To you perhaps. Besides, the abilty to interpret an abstract piece of art closely mimics interpreting a random assortment of lab tests and data that make up a difficult diagnosis. You need to look outside the box and beyond the obvious to see what cannot always be easily seen.

 

[Noeljan]

To you perhaps.

ohh and to add, one of the people in question gets extra time on all exams (which are science classes) and trying to do so for the MCAT. So I guess for some people they go hand in hand.

 

[Noeljan]

To you perhaps. Besides, the abilty to interpret an abstract piece of art closely mimics interpreting a random assortment of lab tests and data that make up a difficult diagnosis. You need to look outside the box and beyond the obvious to see what cannot always be easily seen.

to add to that, I feel that reading the literature and doing research helped me a great deal with the MCAT (including VR). So I think the man has a point.

 

[Dr JPH]

ohh and to add, one of the people in question gets extra time on all exams (which are science classes) and trying to do so for the MCAT. So I guess for some people they go hand in hand.

Huh?

 

[Noeljan]

Huh?

haha, one of the people I was thinking about when I wrote my initial response. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[Krazykritter]

Right on.

What could the surgeon have done anyway?

First of all, if youre pregnant and in the hospital you are going to have more than one physician on your case. If youre otherwise healthy and dehydrated then someone dropped the ball and the surgeon was cleaning up the mess.

I assume you came in through the ER. Why didnt the ER docs correct your dehydrated state?

Maybe you didnt come in through the ER. Why didnt the primary on the case correct your dehydrated state?

If the surgeon was the primary then he did the right thing. He recognized the clinical and laboratory signs of dehydration and responded appropriately. Made the diagnosis, likely ordered fluids and fixed the problem.

Now youre pregnant. Well, OB needs to be on this one too. OB calls the shots on pregnant patients. You had a non surgical issue so the fact that the surgeon didnt want to see you or wanted to send you to a facility that was better equipped to handle the fetus, thats a damn good thing.

Sounds to me like your surgeon is not only astute in his ability to recognize yoru diagnosis, but he is also concerned enough about the well being of both you and the unborn baby that he wont do anything to compromise the health of either of you.

Yorue acting like the typical ignorant patient who thinks they know more about medicine than the doctor. Your surgeon went to 4 years of medical school and at least 5 years of residency. 9 years of training makes him better at giving medical care than you. And he probably got > 6 or 7 on his MCAT.

As I said above...you should be thanking him rather than bashing him.

Maybe a card with a picture of your daughter that says "this girl is alive because of you" would be appropriate.

JP,

It's posts like this that make me want to come out & rotate w/ you. Will you be my intern (or PGY2 if it's next year)?

I seriously ROFL at the end of that post.

 

[pazan]

A good MCAT score is related to the ability for good communication.

Good doctors have good communication skills.

Perhaps thats a link, but certainly not the only one. You cant make a jump from a 10 on the verbal to a great physician.

I believe a good MCAT score shows that someone has the ability to perform well on a test, understand and comprehend the material being tested and meet certain requirements for admission to medical school.

Its not up to the MCAT to make you a great doctor, but without a minimum level of competency you will never gain that chance...nor should you.

I would say the MCAT is a decent measure of written communication and comprehension, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't correlate with good verbal communication (which is extremely important for physicians). Using the interview to screen for ineffective communicators, rather than the MCAT, seems more logical. Sorry to use hypotheticals again... but i think there are plenty of people capable of 40+ MCAT scores who have no business being physicians... mainly because of personality faults (asocial, too cocky, stubborn, etc.).

And, while I do agree with reasonable cutoffs, I find it hard to support your argument that the MCAT should be viewed independent of the rest of the application. There are intelligent, compassionate ESLs who, given the opportunity, can become good physicians without an 8 on verbal. It's one thing to weed out applicants scoring in the 30th percentile on the MCAT; it's another to deny potentially good doctors a chance to prove themselves in med school.

 

[emaj1n]

Which DO schools have a requirement of a minimum of 6 or 7 on a section of the MCAT? Not all websites have this information. So, please list any that you know. Thanks.

I didn't read all of the other responses, so forgive me if I repeat anything.

I think you'll find most osteopathic schools will have a hard time resolving a 6. A 7 may be acceptable with high scores in the other areas. Also, I think you may find a 7 less acceptable in biological and physical. Shoot for no less than an 8 in all three sections. This will give you the best chance at an osteopathic school.

 

[Doc2007]

To you perhaps. Besides, the abilty to interpret an abstract piece of art closely mimics interpreting a random assortment of lab tests and data that make up a difficult diagnosis. You need to look outside the box and beyond the obvious to see what cannot always be easily seen.

All I am trying to say is that if you have decent GPA and your PS and BS sections of the MCAT are good, you should be given a chance. Verbal Reasoning can only be improved by more practice. First time I took it, my score was shameful. Second time around, I started reading more news papers and read couple of humanity books. My score was still bad but it was improved by four points.

 

[medhacker]

I'd venture to say that most people, (including those of us in this thread) who eventually achieved a good enough MCAT score, did so after taking some type of prep - course, prep books etc...

Which begs the argument: if what makes most people improve their MCAT score is prep work, does an MCAT score then really set in stone how "good" of a physician a student will be?

 

[HarveyCushing]

I'd venture to say that most people, (including those of us in this thread) who eventually achieved a good enough MCAT score, did so after taking some type of prep - course, prep books etc...

Which begs the argument: if what makes most people improve their MCAT score is prep work, does an MCAT score then really set in stone how "good" of a physician a student will be?

And also how standardized is the MCAT, if a % of the population takes a prep course and a lesser % doesn't take one due to financial reasons or other time committments?