Which doctors are the happiest?

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emac

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It seems like a lot of physicians I talk with are pessimistic about the current state of healthcare and do not have faith that things are going to get any better. Declining reimbursement, increasing liability, and bureaucratic red tape are all reasons to worry about the future of medicine, but from your experience, what type of doctors are the most optimistic/happiest with their jobs?
 
Sarcasm aside, from my personal experience, it has more to do with personality then specialty on who is happy with their job and the state of medicine.
 
The ones that are where they want to be and have co-workers they trust and like to be honest. If the comradarie (sp?) and environment is right then anyone can be happy.
 
It seems like a lot of physicians I talk with are pessimistic about the current state of healthcare and do not have faith that things are going to get any better. Declining reimbursement, increasing liability, and bureaucratic red tape are all reasons to worry about the future of medicine, but from your experience, what type of doctors are the most optimistic/happiest with their jobs?

Lots of studies in this area. Results from several recent such papers:

From Frank et al, "Career Satisfaction of US Women Physicians", Archives of Internal Medicine, July 12, 1999. Table 2: high job satisfaction among those in "controllable lifestyle" specialties like anesthesiology, dermatology, and pathology (but, interestingly, not radiology):

ioi81005t2a.gif


From Leigh et al, "Physician Career Satisfaction Across Specialties", Archives of Internal Medicine, July 22, 2002. Table 3: high job satisfaction among those in geriatrics, neonatal-perinatal medicine, dermatology, and pediatrics:

ioi10404t3.gif


Low job satisfaction among those in ENT, OBGYN, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, and internal medicine:

ioi10404t5.gif
 
From Leigh et al, "Physician Career Satisfaction Across Specialties", Archives of Internal Medicine, July 22, 2002. Table 3: high job satisfaction among those in geriatrics, neonatal-perinatal medicine, dermatology, and pediatrics...Low job satisfaction among those in ENT, OBGYN, ophthalmology, orthopedic surgery, and internal medicine

That's the study that I linked to earlier (above). Interestingly, family medicine was chosen as the comparison category in the multivariate analysis because it contained the most incumbents of any specialty in the study, and the percentages for very satisfied and dissatisfied (43% and 17%, respectively) were very close to the mean for all specialties (42% and 17%, respectively). IMO, this flies in the face of the prevailing myth that most family physicians are unhappy in their jobs.
 
That's the study that I linked to earlier (above). Interestingly, family medicine was chosen as the comparison category in the multivariate analysis because it contained the most incumbents of any specialty in the study, and the percentages for very satisfied and dissatisfied (43% and 17%, respectively) were very close to the mean for all specialties (42% and 17%, respectively). IMO, this flies in the face of the prevailing myth that most family physicians are unhappy in their jobs.

It is interesting that the ultra-competative specialties of ENT and Opthamology have a higher ratio of miserable people.
 
I'm impressed, I thought this would quickly devolve into the de facto answers of "whatever field I'm interested in" or "whatever field I'm in."

My vote (disclaimer: I probably don't want to do this field) = anesthesia. I don't think I've ever met a miserable anesthesiologist.
 
I vote Pediatricians, hands down! 🙂
 
I vote Pediatricians, hands down! 🙂

Oh god no. I've met plenty of pediatricians who looked like they were ready to be on top of a bell tower with a rifle.

mike
 
I dont know about you guys but to me... even the most satisfied (the derms) look unhappy..

WTH... 60% almost always satisfied? that's awful. Medicine needs a change.
 
I would have to assume the happiest docs are the ones who have a laid back schedule and earn in the middle of the income stats. The reason being that they aren't the type to kill themselves to make a ludacris amount of money, but they are not struggling financially. They have the least stress. So, I'm thinking outpatient psych and pm&r, allergy and immunology
 
The n for General Surgery is 42! And 339 for FP!

Q. What is the bias in this study?:idea:
 
The n for General Surgery is 42! And 339 for FP!

Q. What is the bias in this study?

The number of study participants in each field reflects the distribution amongst specialties. There are more FPs in the workforce than general surgeons. How does that bias the study? The p values are listed, if you want to see them.
 
The number of study participants in each field reflects the distribution amongst specialties. There are more FPs in the workforce than general surgeons. How does that bias the study? The p values are listed, if you want to see them.

Also keep in mind that it is a sample of women docs. I'm guessing there is a higher percentage of women in FP than GenSurg...
 
I think (not scientifically) that much of this has to do with picking the right field for you. I mean look at some of the threads of the med school gunners. Should I do Derm (or other competetive field) or FP (or any other less competetive field). Many of these people choose the competetive field because of their percieved difference in pay, llifestyle etc and they overlook things like will i like this job?

Some people are just looking for the glory (wont mention the fields that come to my mind). Then in the end they realize that no docs are in "awe" of what you do. Additionally, then you realize that your life sucks..

Many of my med school classmates chose fields for the wrong reasons and will likely end up miserable. if you know what to expect from your field many of those people are likely happier than others.
 
Yeah, I think the hardest part about being "happy" in a field is taking all your percieved bias out of the equation and taking a realistic look at how you want to live your life. Some thrive on spending their extra time in the OR, rounding, or getting to know their patients. Others like the "well-rounded" approach to life that includes family time, fishing, boating, etc. Most end up somewhere in between. How much you want to earn will become a direct result of how much you want to work - and the sacrifices you are willing to make. Income should not be a factor in your decision.

The "lifestyle" specialties are good in the long run, but even those who practice derm, plastic surgery, etc still must invest a significant portion of their time building their practice, which may mean 24-hour call out of residency to round up patients, etc. Low overhead fields (EM, Anesthesia) are easier in this regard because you (for the most part) don't need to build a practice.

If I may offer a word of advice - don't let the length of residency training (or even the experience of residency) influence your decision. In the end, your 3, 4, 5, 6, or 7 years of training is not the end of your career - just the training needed to practice what you want. Believe me - the time will fly! On that note, spend your time in residency pursuing those things that you cherish most, and learning how to incorporate these activities into your routine. IMHO, that is the best training you will get. You cannot escape learning the medicine, but you should not miss out on acheiving the balance you want.

In answer to your original question, despite the data and the surveys, I think the general answer is that the happiest doctors are those who have considered the factors above and not lost sight of who they were before they started medical school...
 
It's not OB/GYN and it's not Surgery either. Those are an unhappy lot of people.
 
Low overhead fields (EM, Anesthesia) are easier in this regard because you (for the most part) don't need to build a practice.

True, but then you're subject to the whim of the hospital political machine that includes administrators, nurses, and politicians.
 
Hospice doctors are always happy. It kind of creeps me out, actually.
 
It's not OB/GYN and it's not Surgery either. Those are an unhappy lot of people.

... who like to make others just as unhappy as they are. Thanks for the memories, b*tches!
 
IMHO,

--Orthopaedic Surgeons

and

--Ophthalmologists

are the happiest.....and the most good looking!😉
 
It is interesting that the ultra-competative specialties of ENT and Opthamology have a higher ratio of miserable people.

Anyone have any theories about why ENT/Optho/Plastics have relatively lower satisfaction than other specialties?
 
I read that article long time ago when I was picking specialties. If I remember correctly, I think it has something to do with the "Good o'le days" of medicine. They felt the impact the most when insurance companies exerted their bargaining strength, really changing the way they practiced and got paid. Correct me if I'm wrong.

It'd be an interesting study to redo after a generation has come and gone to see if there are any shifts.
 
Anyone have any theories about why ENT/Optho/Plastics have relatively lower satisfaction than other specialties?

Lots of potential reasons for this. The primary limitation of the studies I linked to earlier (Frank et al, "Career Satisfaction of US Women Physicians", Archives of Internal Medicine, July 12, 1999 and Leigh et al, "Physician Career Satisfaction Across Specialties", Archives of Internal Medicine, July 22, 2002) is that neither study randomized medical students to residency programs. One might look at the studies and think "there is something about ENT/ophtho/plastics that is causing those physicians to be miserable", but it would probably be more accurate to think "there is something about people who choose ENT/ophtho/plastics that makes them miserable".

-AT.
 
The number of study participants in each field reflects the distribution amongst specialties. There are more FPs in the workforce than general surgeons. How does that bias the study? The p values are listed, if you want to see them.

i know it's an old thread, but i noticed some things and i wanted to mention them..

in regards to the above response--you are correct, but then you must realize that the p-value of general surgery in Leigh is 0.25. the only specialties with "high satisfaction" over 50% that meet a 0.95 confidence interval are dermatology (56%) and geriatrics (59.6%). neonatology (58%) is third with a 0.92 CI. it's interesting because on my slow days in medicine where we have time to actually understand patient problems, work them up completely, look up interesting articles, etc. it definitely feels a bit more satisfying in comparison.

this study is also fairly misleading because it ignores the huge and rapidly expanding fields of niche subspecialists (ie. cardiologists that primarily do imaging, psychiatrists that only do forensics, dermatopathologists, pulmonologists that do sleep medicine, a huge number of pediatric sub-specialists, neurologists that do only eegs, family practitioners that only do sports medicine, ENTs that almost only do facial cosmetics, etc.). something that comprehensive and well powered would really by something to talk about.

you can't make strong conclusions about cardiology with a 0.20 CI, gastro, neurosurg, allergy&immuno, or rheumatology with a whopping 0.01 CI. either these fields attract a larger variety of personalities, or the study was insufficiently powered to analyze them. yes, part of it is most likely because there are fewer of these physicians in the work force overall, but big deal--the bottom line is this study is really not that useful to draw conclusions from about those fields. it would also be interesting to see if these divisions still existed if you broke down IM into academic and private, or the same for ob-gyn, or even derm. i think the giant groups in the study would likely be sufficiently powered to analyze that.. maybe there's a follow-up analysis hiding in there somewhere.

what we do know for sure is that FPs, IMs, psychiatrists, ob-gyns and GPs tend to be less happy (with p values <0.05) . perhaps because a lot of them felt they had no choice in the matter because of lower boards scores. also because they work a lot, need to know a ridiculous amount, have a good chunk of malpractice, and may not feel they have rewards and independence commensurate with their efforts and skills. and they probably don't.

also looks like medicine sucks in california. 2/2 hmo's imho.

interesting to see that partners (not solo practitioners) and people making 250-300k a year are a good bit happier as well. maybe they're spending the increased free time they have to invest that 250 into >350k a year--would love to see that analysis! ie. one that looked at your 'true income'. also looks like the older physicians get, the more dissatisfied they are. but maybe they're unhappy because they're old 🙂

and of course there's the classic 'chicken and the egg' argument that you can apply to any cohort study.

this study is a bit like having your palm read or your fortune told. gives you stuff to think about, but probably in the end you just go with your gut.
 
Hospice doctors are always happy. It kind of creeps me out, actually.

Because they can't make any serious mistakes?

We're talking palliative care people, right?
 
Not sure about happiest, but I've yet to see anybody in General Surgery who actually likes their job. Also, in Emergency Medicine, every single attending I've met goes around telling students not to go into their specialty.
 
I'm impressed, I thought this would quickly devolve into the de facto answers of "whatever field I'm interested in" or "whatever field I'm in."

My vote (disclaimer: I probably don't want to do this field) = anesthesia. I don't think I've ever met a miserable anesthesiologist.

I have - though to be honest, I believe he was going through a mid-life crisis rather than having a problem with the specialty itself. He went from anesthesiology to pain management and now I've heard he's back in anesthesiology again.

Edit: NOW I notice that this is an old thread.
 
Coming from an ENT perspective, I can't say that I know of any who are "dissatisfied" with their careers (counting faculty, residents and local private docs, I would guess that my n~50ish) - which makes me wonder about the study. My guess is that something may have happened during the years of data collection that upset a certain percentage of the respondents. For example - sinus surgery used to pay a packet, and it was not unusual to get reimbursed 5k+ for an operation that today may pay $800. The reimbursemet change for this happened in the late 1990's. Obviously, if I did a lot of sinus (which most ENT's do) I, too, would become pretty dissatisfied with my career choice - for a while anyway.

As for career choice and satisfaction - I don't really think someone can look at a group and say - "oh they're happy and if I do what they are doing, I, too will be happy." It just doesn't work like that. I would shoot myself if I was in dermatology clinic all day looking at zits and telling some middle aged woman about skin care - despite the fact that 90% of those in that field are happy.

I also think that someone else in this thread nailed it when they said that balance in life is key to happiness. Finding that balance is the hard part.
 
Coming from an ENT perspective, I can't say that I know of any who are "dissatisfied" with their careers (counting faculty, residents and local private docs, I would guess that my n~50ish) - which makes me wonder about the study. My guess is that something may have happened during the years of data collection that upset a certain percentage of the respondents. For example - sinus surgery used to pay a packet, and it was not unusual to get reimbursed 5k+ for an operation that today may pay $800. The reimbursemet change for this happened in the late 1990's. Obviously, if I did a lot of sinus (which most ENT's do) I, too, would become pretty dissatisfied with my career choice - for a while anyway.

As for career choice and satisfaction - I don't really think someone can look at a group and say - "oh they're happy and if I do what they are doing, I, too will be happy." It just doesn't work like that. I would shoot myself if I was in dermatology clinic all day looking at zits and telling some middle aged woman about skin care - despite the fact that 90% of those in that field are happy.

I also think that someone else in this thread nailed it when they said that balance in life is key to happiness. Finding that balance is the hard part.

Thanks for sharing.. I was curious what was up with the ENT folks. My guys grumble a little just like the next guy but generally seem happy.
 
With academic jobs and systems like Kaiser Permanente, there are plenty of options in surgery to have a life, though it will be different than more sessile specialties like radiology.

Keep in mind that as a pediatrician, you are going to make much less money and it is not easy to have the picturesque life of a doctor making $90,000 a year. Sure, people like working with kids, but do peds anesthesia and you quadruple your salary. America today is expensive.

Most physicians I know that are happy keep their expectations realistic and don't overextend themselves. Most knew what their earning potential was before they chose their specialty and what kinds of demands their specialty would have.

Most of the unhappy ones chose specialties purely on principle, rather than asking questions about call, income, running a practice, etc.

Ultimately, most doctors end up doing the same 8 or 10 things over and over again, which is important, and it then boils down to what type of people you like to be with, what hours of the day you want to work with them, and what type of income you want.
 
On the contrary, I've found it to be the ones who are still practicing and taking call at like age 79 . . .

They all talk about how much fun and how fascinating it still is after all those years . . .

It's happy PEOPLE who make happy doctors, regardless of the specialty.
(These guys would be "un-retired" seniors whatever their occupation, don't you think?)
 
The ones that are where they want to be and have co-workers they trust and like to be honest. If the comradarie (sp?) and environment is right then anyone can be happy.

that is very true.. however in medicine i find everywhere the work environment to be abysmal... and everyone looking for someone else to blame or to be the fall guy.. I dont trust anyone because i feel like i am a target at all times..
 
Not sure about happiest, but I've yet to see anybody in General Surgery who actually likes their job. Also, in Emergency Medicine, every single attending I've met goes around telling students not to go into their specialty.

Wow... where is this? It's interesting to hear of the other side. Up until now, I have not met or heard any EM attending that didn't like EM enough to discourage students from going into the specialty. When I was a student, all the EM-trained/boarded attendings seemed to really like their jobs and were really happy to have students that were planning on going into EM. In fact I remember once when one of the attendings, right before her shift started, just freely expressed how much she loved her job. Likewise, the attendings at my residency seem to really enjoy their work.

Then again, where I'm at, there are general/trauma surgery attendings that seem to really like their jobs.
 
I'd be cautions of anecdotal "EVERYONE in job X hated their field". I know surgeons who loved work at hospital A and hated it at hospital B.

Maybe just as important as career is where and how you chose to practice (i.e. Salary, Academic, Pro-Bono, Support, social services involved, ancillary staff etc).

I'm sure that you can find a very pissed off set of EM physicians if they are drawing their own labs, wheeling pts to a CT that never works, and then having to call consultants that don't want to admit etc. I doubt that they hate EM, more likely they hate the system that they are working with.

Just my $.02
 
I'm sure that you can find a very pissed off set of EM physicians if they are drawing their own labs, wheeling pts to a CT that never works, and then having to call consultants that don't want to admit etc. I doubt that they hate EM, more likely they hate the system that they are working with.

Just my $.02

I'd agree with that. When you walk through the door and say "I'm admitting this guy", then they're loving it. When you ask if you can wait through the night until the morning when the radiologist can do an ultrasound at his convenience, or mention you've just finished rounds but will see the patient 'right after your first case', things don't go as smoothly in their eyes.

Work environment, people's attitudes, the system, access to resources, can make or break any specialty.
 
The ROAD specialties . . . I haven't met an unhappy doc in these. Anesthesia and Derm seem to be especially satisfied.

On the other hand, I have met the most general IM docs whom were very unhappy with their specialty.
 
The ROAD specialties . . . I haven't met an unhappy doc in these. Anesthesia and Derm seem to be especially satisfied.

On the other hand, I have met the most general IM docs whom were very unhappy with their specialty.

Then why does anesthesia have an extraordinarily high substance abuse problem if they're so happy? It must be that they're so happy that so many of them are high on fentanyl?

sounds to me like you're putting the ROAD specialties on a pedestal.
 
Then why does anesthesia have an extraordinarily high substance abuse problem if they're so happy? It must be that they're so happy that so many of them are high on fentanyl?

Don't let your frustration and bitterness about your own poor residency choice cloud your judgment. 🙂

It's a stretch to call the substance abuse rate extraordinarily high. Access is easy, so it's certainly higher than other specialties. But anesthesiologists recognize the potential for abuse, and are much more aggressive and vigilant about detecting, reporting, and treating than other specialties. This skews the numbers somewhat.

sounds to me like you're putting the ROAD specialties on a pedestal.

I don't have a lot of experience with the ROD part, but the A bit sure deserves to be there. 🙂
 
It's a stretch to call the substance abuse rate extraordinarily high.

Anesthesiologists represent 3.6% of all physicians in the United States. However, they are over represented in addictive treatment programs at a rate of about three times higher than any other physician group. At the present time, 12-15% of all M.D.'s in treatment are anesthesiologists. In addition, anesthesiologists are at highest risk for relapse of all physician specialties.

so it's certainly higher than other specialties. But anesthesiologists recognize the potential for abuse, and are much more aggressive and vigilant about detecting, reporting, and treating than other specialties. This skews the numbers somewhat.

You can't have it both ways. It's either higher or it isn't. You can't say skewed numbers and concede that it's higher. but that's beside the point, my point is why is substance abuse higher in a group which is purportedly happier?

Instead of conjecture, why don't we look at the study Kent posted way back when this thread was started. It seems that the only road specialty listed as having a high percentage of those as being very satisfied is Derm, then the rest are IM, General Peds, and neonatal medicine. With shockingly IM seemingly the most likely one to be very satisfied.

Don't mistake sarcasm for bitterness.
 
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