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Which Foreign Schools?

Discussion in 'General International Discussion' started by Yosh, Feb 13, 2000.

  1. Yosh

    Yosh Livin' in the WINDY CITY 10+ Year Member

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    Oct 25, 1999
    NW Indiana
    After going through a round of applications and numerous rejections...I am considering Carribean schools...
    MY MCAT was 25..and sci gpa is 3.1. My overall gpa is a 3.59...any advice on what schools I have a chance with??
     
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  3. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    I believe all of them. I remember SGU, arguably the "Harvard" of the Island schools, saying that its average MCAT was 26, putting you well within range. Your GPA is also within their range.


    Tim of New York City.
     
  4. cbc16

    cbc16 Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    yosh
    Try to get into St. Georges first. They the best reputation of the offshore schools, as well as, a resort-like campus, excellent labs, U.S. clinicals, and everybody who passes the boards gets into a residency. Dont believe the b.s. about IMGs being phased out of residency positions. If you're an American citizen you have nothing to fear. Other acceptable offshore schools include Ross and AUC. They've been around a while and have a proven record of getting their students into residencies.
    You should also consider DO school. They have their own problems (check out the DO posts) but at least its in the states. Good Luck!
     
  5. Andre

    Andre Member 10+ Year Member

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    Feb 14, 2000
    Houston, TEXAS
    Yosh, in my humble opinion, GO TO AUC FIRST,
    with St.G. being the next and only other choice.
    My wife just finished 5th semester @ AUC, and I can tell you a lot about the IMG scene.
    Weekends only, Houston: 281-554-4524.
    Good luck, you'll make it.
     
  6. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Hold on big fella (cbc16),

    I think your advice is a bit shoddy.

    First DO schools aren't an alternative, and they have relatively NO problems compared to the GIANT ones faced by IMG students. The average stats for entering a DO school are also somewhat higher than those posted by yosh, and not that numbers are a big deal here, but that's what started this discussion off in the first place.

    Second, with regard to the "BS" surrounding IMGs being blocked out of the US. Legislation is being pushed forward to reduce the number of seats to just under 20,000. With about 18,000 MD and DO graduates every year, that leaves about 2,000 open to all IMGs. That may not totally eliminate IMGs, but it sure as hell makes it MUCH more difficult to practice here.


    Tim of New York City.
     
  7. argonx

    argonx Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Philadelphia, PA USA
    Okay look that won't happen until 2004 or 5. And when it does it will take place over a period of 4 to 5 years. AND alot of medstudents look at DO schools as alturnatives , and DO schools know this.
    It gets frustrating sometimes but when you get down to it a doctor is a person who passed the USMLE 1 and 2. (your not able to pract. till 3 is passed) So relax are you a osteopathic student or allopathic? Whatever you are you are still a doctor with the rights and prev. of a doctor.
    Nuff said!

    ------------------
    There is more joy in giving then there is in recieving.
     
  8. dwstranger

    dwstranger Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Feb 14, 2000
    Bethlehem, PA
    You know, gringo, you obviously hate it here. You sound bitter at having to come to a foreign country to pursue the dream. You and I are probably at the same school in Mexico. And I agree that it kinda sucks, depending on your perspective... There are other Mexican schools that have good reputations and clinicals, better than ours. Besides, the Mexican people are great, the cost of living is low, there's culture (not that we have time to experience it...). But I chose Mexico over the Caribbean schools because I wanted to become more fluent in Spanish. For me, this is a big plus. The area I want to practice in has a large latino population, and being able to communicate with my patients in more than rudimentary phrases is a big deal. Another biggie is the fact that, even though the school may be less than ideal, it gives us the chance to sit for the USMLE. And once you kick butt there, you can be more assured of a residency spot...

    I'm not suggesting you shelve your opinions. But I think you should also consider the good things that Mexico has to offer. IMHO
     
  9. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Argonx, my main point is that no matter which way you cut it, whether it's over 4 or 5 years, the IMGs are facing an even more competitive residency market. The Island school grads aren't just competing against others who are in the Islands, but IMGs from around the world. Do you realize that coming to the US for practice is REALLY popular?

    A more competitive residency market for IMGs, no matter where they're from, translates into bad news for them.

    The legal definition of a doctor may be one who has passed Steps 1 and 2 (both USMLE and COMLEX), but I think US grads, MD and DO, are of much higher quality than practically all Island school grads. We have standards; they don't.


    Tim of New York City.
     
  10. argonx

    argonx Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Yes I do. However from what I heard if your a n american cit. your included in the 110% cap.
     
  11. Andre

    Andre Member 10+ Year Member

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    Houston, TEXAS
    Gentlemen: Lets state the FACTS, and nothing but the FACTS. Personal value judgements has no value here.
    Turtle said:
    but I think US grads, MD and DO, are of much higher quality than practically all Island school grads. We have standards; they don't.
    OBJECTION.
    My wife has GPA 3.85 BS-Biology U of HOUSTON.
    She just finished 5th semester @ AUC.
    She barely made it. Several of her GPA 3.0 friends, who partied more, failed and dropped out.
    Every book she read is purchased from Texas Med schools. Ditto for American educated faculty. She is there due to a Visa technicality; not failing US admissions!
    I personally talked to several US docs who said AUC & StG grads are JUST AS GOOD (and frequently better) than US grads, during clinicals.
    I am emphasizing those two schools, NOT the diploma mills where you BUY the exams. Please give AUC grads some credit.
    AUC has 85% PASS for USMLE-1.
    UAG has under 50%. Numbers speak for itself..
    We personally know several studs @ AUC who "escaped" from UAG-Mexico !!!
    To Argon: We are now Green Card status, hence we are not worrying at all. ECFMG is no big deal over US graduation; only involves $1,000 CSA test in PA, plus TOEFL.
    Good luck to everyone.. FACTS, please..
    Andre
     
  12. cbc16

    cbc16 Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Dear Tim,
    I wasn't trying to suggest that going to an offshore med school was better than going to DO school, I was only offering it as a suggestion since the original poster never brought it up. Unfortunately some people can't deal with being a DO, and would rather go to an offshore school. If this guy is one of those people, then St Georges is probably the best route for him.
    I think you missed an important point when you wrote about the impending cut in residency spots. The people that are going to be hurt the most are non-US citizen IMGs. If you talk to any residency director who comes from a hospital which takes a lot of IMGs, they will all tell you they prefer Americans, especially from those offshore schools that have a good record of producing quality house officers. Also, I don't agree with your statement about US grads being better quality than those of offshore schools. First of all not all schools are the same, and, IMGs who get residency positions in the US have to pass the same tests as their US counterparts. You don't need to worry about the idiots who can't pass the boards because they won't be able to become residents.
    I went to SGU for a 1 1/2 years, and was able to transfer to a US school. While the average USMLE I score was higher, I can tell you from personal experience that at least 1/2 of the students at SGU would have done fine (not that the other half were stupid). Now that I'm a resident, I realize that that board scores have NOTHING to do with how good a H.O. you are, and that the gradutes of SGU perform just as well as their US grad peers.
    So, for all those interested, applying to DO school is a great idea, you will be just as much as a physician as an MD. If you don't want to be a DO, going to a reputable, proven offshore school is also a good idea.
     
  13. DoWannaBe

    DoWannaBe Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    USA
    I feel I need to comment DO school ('cause I am a DO student)

    Curriculum at DO school is very hard. Simply We have "bad reputation" (or used to) We have to prove ourself. It is very hard because we have to do extra stuff in addition to regular medical school stuff. At my school, we have clinical courses (a big burden when You are taking other hard-core science course) and OMM besides regular stuff.

    I have lots of friends at MD school... They are happy (to me..) they are only taking science courses... Must not be that hard...

    In addition to that, if you are crazy like I am and decides to take two boards (COMPLEX and USMLE) you're absolutely required to study for both.. I can't make judgements on which one of the boards are harder or not but i can tell you they are different.. you must study for both of them..

    BUT.. I think DO school is the one for me... I think (this is very personal opinion) you get to keep believing in alternative medicine if you come over here... I think you are more likely to lose that insight if you go to MD school.. (I maybe wrong).. but at least they teach me a form of Alternative Medicine here at my school..

    One comment... DO school is getting really hard to get into nowadays.. it is used to be considered as an alternative option to MD school.. NOw... I don't know... Public MD school may be easier than outta-state DO school (off course, it depends on where you are..)

    Well good luck.. you will be a doctor whereever you go..
     
  14. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    argonx: I'm not sure about US-IMGs being included in the 110% cap. I know for sure that they're offering spots for EACH US MD and DO school graduate. If someone has a copy of the latest JAMA, where officials of the AAMC and AACOM are supposed to release a statement warning against going to Island schools, maybe you can tell us for sure.

    Andre: Agreed. The fact is numbers don't lie, but that doesn't make up for the large number of students at the Island schools who eventually fail out. That's why the board pass rates are so high -- only the best of them get to that point. In the US schools, the attrition rate is extremely low and practically no one fails out, yet we maintain a Step 1 pass rate average of 92%. Island schools like SGU and AUC claim to have a 93% and 85% Step 1 pass rate, respectively, but that doesn't account for the number of students that eventually are eligible to take Step 1.

    I think when an IMG doc comes over to the states and trains in a reputable hospital, that's fine. But so many IMG docs are relegated to the backwaters of this country, practicing in ill-equipped hospitals. Will this place turn out a good doctor? I sure hope so, but the odds are it'll be a lot more difficult.

    I just think going to an Island school is gambling with much more than where you'll do your residency. You might just do well enough to come back and practice here, but you might not. I have a friend whose cousin is an SGU grad. Never passed his boards (apparently there's a slightly higher pass score for IMGs), and about $200,000 later, is driving a taxicab in New York City. That sucks. I've never heard of a US MD or DO student having to go that route and not practicing medicine. We all do. Island school guys don't.


    Tim of New York City.
     
  15. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    DOWannaBe,

    The curriculum at a DO school is essentially the same curriculum as an MD school, with the added component of OMM/OPP, so I don't see how you can make the assessment that the DO curriculum is any harder than the MD curriculum. You can say that, well, we DOs have to learn OMM/OPP, but from other threads, it seems that many schools don't even emphasize OMM/OPP all that much. So what's the "big burden?"

    MD schools also have "clinical courses" and "doctor-patient"-type courses, so that's not an exclusively DO thing. I'm saying all of this to get the message across that the curricula really share more similarities than differences.

    That's COMLEX, not COMPLEX. You must study for the two exams because they're entirely different, and according to "First Aid for the USMLE Step 1," use different language. COMLEX uses more osteopathic terms and USMLE uses more standard terms. Not all DO students take both COMLEX and USMLE; that's more a personal choice. Why do you feel the need to take both if the DO curriculum is supposedly more difficult? Won't residency directors be impressed by the mere fact that your curriculum is more difficult, and thus no matter how you do on the USMLE, you'll be a far superior candidate?

    But that's exactly it. Residency directors all feel that the curricula are essentially the same. You guys learn OMM/OPP. That's great, but it doesn't necessarily make it harder.

    Alternative Medicine isn't for everyone. I happen to like OMM/OPP, but I'm not in an osteopathic school. I don't consider myself at a loss, however, since there are plenty of programs out there that train MDs, DMDs, DDSs, and other health professionals OMM (particularly at MSU-COM). So if I choose to learn some OMM/OPP, I'll learn it later in life after I graduate from medical school.

    MD schools generally touch on the topic of alternative medicine, but don't go into much detail. Despite what you may think, not everything "alternative" is great. I happen to think that many forms of alternative medicine are a crock of $hit, but I think many other forms have their merits.

    Entrance standards: Oy vey. A few private and public MD schools report lower accepted GPAs and lower average MCATs than maybe one or two DO schools in this country. Since when do we use numbers to indicate diffiuclty of entrance? I thought the entire argument from the osteopathic side was that numbers don't judge how competent a physician can eventually be, and yet here you are, an osteopathic student making that same correlation. I happen to think numbers MUST make a part of a physician (we need standards -- let's face it), and the rest of it is all that unquantifiable stuff.

    You sound like that dude who used to post here by the name of "dragonking" or something. You two seem to have the same viewpoints. Just curious.


    Tim of New York City.
     
  16. UHS03

    UHS03 Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Lets not get into this...to those of us who are confident in the training we receive and our abilities, the whole DO/MD thing is a non-issue. To claim that DO or MD school is harder is a pointless argument, lets not fall into that trap...don't take the bait and get into this "us vs. them" thing. Some DO students are insecure about being a DO, so lets just let them justify whatever they want to themselves however they want..no one else cares. Everyone, no matter where they are, will get out of medical school what they put into it. Most students at a DO school would also do fine at an MD school and vice versa...lets unite against our common foe: Biochemistry! (Sorry, I just took a biochem exam.)

    [This message has been edited by UHS03 (edited 02-17-2000).]
     
  17. UHS2002

    UHS2002 Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Very well said UHS03!
     
  18. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Absolutely!

    Sorry to (almost) cause a stir.


    Tim of New York City.
    (Where Biochemistry is a pretty big foe too)
     
  19. ray delavari

    ray delavari New Member

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    Feb 18, 2000
    woodland hills california
    Dear students,

    Before you make a decision as to which Medical School to apply, you might want to visit our web site at WWW.imededucation.COM you won't regret it!
    Direct admission into World Health Organization (W.H.O.) listed and fully accredited Medical Schools which participtate in the United States office of Guaranteed Loan Program for Health Profession Student
     
  20. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    Practically ALL foreign med schools are accredited by the WHO simply because the criteria are sub-par. Sporting that isn't an impressive point for a foreign school, although many times it's the only thing they can boast.


    Tim of New York City.
     
  21. LaSiguiente

    LaSiguiente New Member

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    Feb 18, 2000
    Guadalajara
  22. kf

    kf New Member

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    derby, ct, usa
    Tim- I see from your bio that you are a medical student- wait intil you get into residency before you judge your island counterparts. Why is it that the average USMLE 1 and 2 score is around 82- I scored a 92 on 1 and 88 on 2. I also was accepted into the Brigham & Womens Anesthesiology program ( 25 spots and 2500 applicants). My clinical years of medical school were dont at Yale, Hospital of ST Raphael, St Vincents, and St Marys- I was side by side on rounds with YMS- some were good and some didnt care. Once you graduate even if you should be so lucky to get into an IVY league program that is when it all counts. And also when you are done with residency and go to practice- they also dont care how hard you worked to get there, where you went etc. I agree that the island schools are not as well regulated as the US- but the ones that got here are good students with good training. Also- have you been side by side with a real IMG? Usually they have practiced for several years before coming here- take a good IMG from India and he will smoke you out of the water knowledge wise. Keep an open mind and good luck in your career. KF
     
  23. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    KF,

    If you scored in the 92nd percentile, that's great, but you must realize that roughly 50-60% of IMGs who take the USMLEs every year actually pass Step 1. This is data from the AMA/AAMC. Can you explain that?

    My problem with Island schools is that they seem to take almost anyone, and anyone who goes obviously didn't qualify for an American school, whether it's allopathic or osteopathic.

    I've worked with IMGs before, but they were all from India, Europe, or China. They were all very brilliant and all very capable physicians and surgeons. I haven't worked with Island IMGs because I haven't met any, but when I do I hope you're right.

    Congratulations on the Brigham & Women's match. You're obviously a bright person, but can you say the same about all the other Island IMGs in this country?


    Tim of New York City.
     
  24. X-RayGuy

    X-RayGuy Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    #1 The USMLE does NOT, I repeat, does NOT make a good doctor.
    #2 Having "M.D." after your name does not automatically make you a competent physician.

    It seems that there are a LOT of people out there who rely on written tests and scores to judge their competency. The exam exists because there are way too many doctors out there to be evaluated in any other way. But I have seen first hand how people who have performed very well on those tests have turned out to be just plain incompetent, if not downright dangerous.
    Also, the awarding of an M.D. not only depends on having completed a certain curriculum with certain minimum grades, but also depends on having demonstrated integrity and ethical behavior through the training years.
    Again, passing the USMLE should NOT be regarded as proof of equal training or ability. If it was that simple. . .
     
  25. kf

    kf New Member

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    derby, ct, usa
    xray guy- You are right that USMLE does not reflect on the capability to be a good practitioner- but it is the only set of criteria we currently have- and with all of the money that US schools spend on student education - they really should score better on the exams. I have read that on average it takes several million dollars to educate one US student. And no MD does not mean you are a good doctor? As you saw by the OB doc that carved his ID in that womans belly.
     
  26. turtleboard

    turtleboard SDN Advisor 10+ Year Member

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    XR,

    Passing the USMLE may not make you a good doctor, but it certainly: 1) qualifies you to be one in the US, 2) shows you have the appropriate training, and 3) is the only way we can ensure someone has the knowledge-base to be fit for the practice of medicine.

    While I don't think test scores are everything, there are too many people out there who discount test scores and the things they can tell us, and I don't agree with that.


    Tim of New York City.
    (The Home of Standardized, Competitive Examination)
     
  27. X-RayGuy

    X-RayGuy Junior Member 10+ Year Member

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    I should have been more careful with my wording.
    As I stated, I absolutely agree that the USMLE is necessary and it's all there is. And I absolutely agree that passing it is necessary as the most BASIC of prerequisites to practice, i.e. if you can't master the basic, fundamental information that the USMLE asks, then you have no business being a doc.
    The point I tried to carry in my previous statement is that too many people, at least on these posts, hold the USMLE as final and absolute proof of their competence. It's like saying: "I'm a qualified Chemical Engineer because I passed my grammar and basic math courses in high school."
    I'm not knocing on the USMLE. If you can't pass it - if you don't master the fundamentals presented by the test, then you should not practice medicine - which is exactly how it's being used.
    What I'm knocking are the people who proudly hold it as proof of their competence.
     
  28. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Hi Tim et al.

    TIm and I have corresponded previously with regard to foreign schools . Im a grad of sgusom. Its my experience that DO's and IMGs are by and large in the same boat in terms of trying to get where you want to go. IMG's have a few extra things to do like the CSA, however with the exception of ER, which I think DO's have a *slight* leg up in, they do about the same. Have a look at SGU's placement (I can't speak for the other schools int eh caribbean). Either check my site at http://travel.to/sgusom or the school site at www.sgu.edu. As for me, Im finishing my prelim year in medicine off to rad-Oncology in the summer.
    All the best,
    Steph
     
  29. Kf,

    You are full of hog wash! Brigham & Woman's had 2500 appliccants for their anesthesiology department?!? According to the American Society of anesthiology (ASA), In 1999 only 656 of the 1047 spots filled in the match! It is hard to imagine that ANY program got 2500 applications when 391 spots remained empty. I doubt there was even 2500 anesthesiology applicants in the entire match given those numbers.

    Everybody knows that anesthesiology is one of the easiest, if not the easiest specialty to match into. Bragging that you are in the ivy league is hardly meaningful when you are in the easiest specialty to match. If you had matched anywhere in orthopedics, ENT, DERM, I would be much more impressed. Your credibility is shot.

    [This message has been edited by anon (edited 04-02-2000).]
     
  30. UHS2002

    UHS2002 Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    Totally agree! Anesthesiology is one of the easiest programs to get in, look at the match numbers. I find it amusing that most of the IMGs posting on this board boast of having matched in anesthesiology.
    If you want to know the real situation of IMGs out there, lurk on the IMG forums and read!

    Having said that, I don't understand why everyone is so invested in trying to talk people out of going off shore to med school. If someone asks for info and opinions on these schools, I think it is fine to let them know what one thinks, but what is the point of trying to talk someone "out" of going offshore. Their mind is made up and no matter how many horror stories they read, they believe "they" will be among the few success stories. Isn't it what everyone thought too, when starting med school, that it wouldn't be so hard for them?! There is no substitute for first hand experience!
     
  31. Detroit Rock City

    Detroit Rock City Member 10+ Year Member

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    Detroit, MI USA
    Hey Timmy,
    I felt the same exact way you do until I realized that I was not getting into a US MD school. I applied to Ross and SGU and ended up at ross because of a family friend who was a student there. Now I have just graduated and I guess my education was sub par because I matched in ER. I rotated with these higher standard US students and I have 2 words for you, affirmative action. I wonder why it is that the UMDNJ students have to report in the summer to take a review class of the material that they are supposed to learn in their first year. I only know of SGU and Ross students. I have heard that some students that don't fare well at their schools end up at AUC (no offence, just what I have heard) But I have heard for kids from AUC doing quite well also. People I garduated with have gotten residencies in Ortho, Derm, Rad/onc, ER, optho, etc. I guess we musty have bought those residencies along with our degrees!

    P.S as a student you should keep your trap shut. I can only pray that one day in your 4th year you have to work under a good FMG who puts you in your place.
     
  32. Detroit Rock City

    Detroit Rock City Member 10+ Year Member

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    One more thing,
    I think the point that is being overlooked is that all IMG's are lumped together when boeard score pass rates are published. If you took out the US citizens who are IMG's and figured their pass rate I believe that it would be much higher. I think the reason for this is that alot of IMG cannot speak, read or write english. The ECFMG has interceded by making the CSA mandatory for all IMG's. This does not stop them from taking step1 and 2 but they cant practice here. I know that there are people of many different ethnic backgrounds here in the US, especially from NYC (I'm a new yorker also tim) but I just hope that they all learn our language first.
     
  33. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    To risk paraphrasing Mel Brooks:

    Detroit Rock City is right; the low pass rates overall for IMGs reflects *great* variation in quality of schools, and the fact that most foreign schools represent students to whom english is not a first language, and are institutions that dont gear for the USMLE. Premeds dont tend to think of it this way but US medical schools prepare you to pass the boards. Its not a matter of cynacism. Sure making nice doctors is nice and all, but PASS rates are what schools and residencies want to see. SGU, Ross, AUC gear as well towards the boards. Sackler, RCS, UCD and any school in Eastern Europe, fine as they are, dont. And why should they? They are trying to make doctors for Isral, Ireland and xxxvanyia. You'd think if you knew medicine it wouldnt make a difference; but Im afraid it doesnt work so simply. So these poor pass rates are for cumulative reasons that sometimes reflects the school in terms of quality, sometimes in terms of goals, and sometimes merely languge barriers.
     
  34. SP

    SP Junior Member

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    Mississippi
    Does anyone know anything about the University of Antigua and their Flexible Medical Cirriculum for Health Professionals?
     
  35. A-DOG

    A-DOG Member 10+ Year Member

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    Riverside, C.A., 92503
    I just got into New York State/Tel Aviv program at Sackler. They, by all means gear you towards passing the USMLE. The second half of year two is almost exclusively clinical courses + USMLE review. 100% of the students match. If you want to practice in the U.S., from what I hear, Sackler might be the best bet. After, researching the carib. schools, it had the most solid foundation for American students to get a residency. I've heard Royal, in Ireland, is also good. They have a 5 yr. program, however, and do not gear the students toward passing the USMLE.
     
  36. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

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    Thanks for the post on Sackler, a fine program by any estimation. I do hear that they make it very difficult if you try to transfer; however this may be a moot point really as transfer rates are so low these days.

    Sackler is probably as good a place as you can go to and I would put up with sgu.
     
  37. argonx

    argonx Senior Member 10+ Year Member

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    What kind of stats do you need to get in to Sackler? thanks!!
     
  38. hopedoc

    hopedoc Member 10+ Year Member

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    Apr 18, 2000
    Getting back to the original question here, what id the best offshore school? I always read so much on these posts about SGU, so I was planning to apply there, but what about SABA? I've compared the prices and SABA is so much cheaper- WHY? Are they considered equivalent in terms of residency placements?
     
  39. Detroit Rock City

    Detroit Rock City Member 10+ Year Member

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    Apr 16, 2000
    Detroit, MI USA
    I personally went to ross and although I know that many people think that the place sucks it did fine by me. I got into both SGU and ross but chose the latter because I knew a guy that went there. The only thing I know about SABA and AUC is that they take alot of people who "transferred" from Ross. Actually, they failed out of ross. Ross has a relatively high attrition rate, but if you don't slack you can do just fine. Ross offers a manditory Board revied in the last semester. It helped me lots. I really don't think it matters much where you went to school unless you want the ultra tough residency. I know guys in my class this year got ortho, ER, ENT, and ophtho so I guess we didn't do too shabby. I know that SGU has a better reputation than ross does, but as time goes by ross's rep has been getting better. I went on a couple of interviews where I was the only FMG they interviewed. It is all a numbers game. Don't really matter the school, what matters is the USMLE
    P.S. Hey Timmy, I start my residency in July. The students like you that are under me will not know where I went to school. Just a word of advice, you never know where someone went to school these days. All it takes is one bad letter of rec, and you will be driving the next cab over!!! Moron!
     
  40. Rockndoc

    Rockndoc Member 10+ Year Member

    30
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    Apr 26, 2000
    Livingston, NJ, USA
    Hopedoc,
    I went to Saba, and I can tell you that almost my entire class passed the USMLE on the first try. You will find that many people from Carribean schools try to "play their school up" but in reality it is all hype. I think if you were to compare the pass rate between Saba, Ross, and SGU, you would find that they all fall into the 90% pass range.
    As far as residencies go the official Saba website actually lists all graduates of the last couple of years and where they are doing their residency.
    Detroit was right about one thing...if you are an IMG you are an IMG...the only thing that really matters is your USMLE score. Anyone who thinks a program director is going to say "WOW THIS GUY IS FROM SGU, WE GOTTA TAKE HIM!," is completely delusional.
    As far as the general public is concerned, you sign your name with an MD after it, it says MD on your lab coat, and that is good enough for most people. It is EXTREMELY RARE for a patient to ask you where you went to school once those letters are after your name. And for the couple of instances in your life when this does happen, it is JUST as humbling to say SGU as it is to say Ross or Saba.
    I was accepted at all three...SGU was too expensive for me, and I had "quality of life issues" with Ross. But everyone has to choose the school that is right for them. Any of the three wil allow you to pass the USMLE and even score in the high 90s as some of my classmates did.
    I liked saba because the electricity and water Never goes out (unless there is a hurricane) and there is literally NO crime. Things we take for granted in our nice little sub-urbs here in the USA. The best thing to do is to talk to as many people as you can from each school and ask a lot of questions to weigh out the +'s and -'s of each school.

    Good Luck!
     
  41. hopedoc

    hopedoc Member 10+ Year Member

    75
    0
    Apr 18, 2000
    Rockndoc,

    Thanks for the info. I will research SABA some more. To be quite honest I had never looked at it b/c everyone is always talking about SGU. If they have similar abilities in getting you a residency as SGU, it would make more sense to go to SABA especially financially. I have a friend who's doing an interview with SABA this week, I will pass this info on. Thanks!
     
  42. Bud Gobbel

    Bud Gobbel New Member

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    May 14, 2000
    Baltimore, MD, USA
     
  43. KT

    KT New Member

    1
    0
    May 14, 2000
    hey turtleboard tim of new york!!!

    i got a 2.8 GPA. but i scored a 32 on the MCAT 10,10,12 R. i applied to 6 MD schools, and 9 DO schools, i got NO interviews. my GPA was just too low. so i am giving AUC a shot and will be attending it in the fall. there is nothing wrong with going to the carrib if you have the desire. i read that you said island guys have no standards, and anyone can get in . noone is disputing that. its the people that get out that are golden. this is america, land of the second chance. who cares where one went to med school? its all board scores and rotations. i have no doubt i will be a proud doctor, and serve my patients well. noone is saying that carrib students are the best doctors. the ones who go out and accomplish thier goals and get residencies, and become succesful and happy are the ones who count. so why the big deal. and noone is cutting residencies any time soon. people live longer, and applications to med school are done 8%, i believe. so all will be well.

    Detroit Rock City, Carbon Klein, i hope to be in your shoes one day. i look up to you guys, who make my choice so much easier.

    Andre-good postings on AUC.

    Taylor DO, i hope your book turns out well, and thank you for supporting us. i have been reasearching my decision for the past 4 months, and i am certain.

    peace and god bless to all.



    [This message has been edited by Stephen Ewen (edited 05-16-2000).]
     
  44. stephew

    stephew SDN Super Moderator Moderator Emeritus 10+ Year Member

    2,366
    7
    Jun 7, 2001
    Boston
    one word of caution to all: when a foreign school (or even a US one) boasts its residencies, and you see, for instances "Yale" mentioned alot be careful. Yale proper is Yale-New Haven; there are a host of community affiliates which, while often quite excellent, are not Yale per se. Again this says nothing about the education necessarily but schools might use this for prestige factor. Of course I use yale as an example; I could have easily replaced Mt Sinai in NYC which has a huge number of affiliates; or Cornell, NYU, ect ect. Just a word to the wise.

    And again let me warn of the pass rate twist. Schools (US too) can boast a 95% pass rate. But you MUST ask... 95% of what part of the class?? Did 100% of the class get to take the USMLE; or just 50%. This is an infamous little device that is misleading and is aimed at those who wouldnt know to ask.
    Steph
     
  45. Detroit Rock City

    Detroit Rock City Member 10+ Year Member

    92
    0
    Apr 16, 2000
    Detroit, MI USA
    Kt,
    Go get em!
    Good luck and good hunting!
    DRC
     
  46. nextup

    nextup Junior Member

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    May 24, 2000
    Does anyone out there have a handle on MUA? I know its brand new, but the SABA connection seems to make it a worthwhile consideration.
     

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