Which has the better lifestyle?

[Bokken]

Hi SDN,

I've been accepted into allopathic med school and dental school.

I was wondering which profession offers a better lifestyle. Are there specialties in medicine that offer hours comparable to dentistry aside from primary care? I was thinking maybe PM&R and EM but EM shiftwork has poor hours.

Thanks!

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[CRCprofessional]

All of the residents I've spoken to tell me one thing when I'm shadowing a physician - 'Go to dental school.' Dental school is not for me, but they say that because the lifestyle is better. Only what I've heard, though.

 

[Hemorrage]

Dermatology. Which is why it's so competitive.

If you want a nice lifestyle and good pay go to dentistry. Medicine can make you more money but you'll be working harder and it also depends on the specialty you enter. Going into medicine and doing primary care is an example of working too hard to earn too little

 

[stolen_biscuit]

Another vote for dental if you're looking for the better lifestyle.

 

[LaCroix09]

It seems like it would have been a good idea to pose this question before you spent the time and effort to take the DAT and the MCAT, apply to both medical and dental schools, and interview at each.

With that being said, I think most people know that dentistry is an easier lifestyle. That's not really the only factor in choosing a career, though. I personally hate dentistry. I don't really want to be in peoples' mouths all day. I'll also feel more useful as a physician.

 

[Bokken]

It seems like it would have been a good idea to pose this question before you spent the time and effort to take the DAT and the MCAT, apply to both medical and dental schools, and interview at each.

With that being said, I think most people know that dentistry is an easier lifestyle. That's not really the only factor in choosing a career, though. I personally hate dentistry. I don't really want to be in peoples' mouths all day. I'll also feel more useful as a physician.

Thank you for your answer.

The DAT was a breeze after studying for the MCAT. I live in the Northeast so I interviewed at schools within driving distance. Additionally, I wanted acceptances at both types of schools so I could make the best decision. If I had only gotten into one type of school, I would have just deluded myself into thinking that the profession I was accepted into was better.

Are there any specialties in medicine, aside from primary care, where one can have an under 40 hour workweek and aren't outrageously competitive like Derm/Optho?

 

[Wanderlove]

It seems like it would have been a good idea to pose this question before you spent the time and effort to take the DAT and the MCAT, apply to both medical and dental schools, and interview at each.

I agree with this. Applying to both med and dental school seems like a waste of time. Maybe you should've shadowed more doctors and dentists and carefully weighed your options. Aren't there other factors that would motivate you to choose one over the other besides lifestyle? Medical school does allow you to choose a specialty later on. It seems like that might be a good thing for you. However, I wouldn't expect either one to be easy and conducive to an extravagant lifestyle, or you might find yourself disappointed in the future. That's why I believe passion is important.

 

[Bokken]

I agree with this. Applying to both med and dental school seems like a waste of time. Maybe you should've shadowed more doctors and dentists and carefully weighed your options. Aren't there other factors that would motivate you to choose one over the other besides lifestyle? Medical school does allow you to choose a specialty later on. It seems like that might be a good thing for you. However, I wouldn't expect either one to be easy and conducive to an extravagant lifestyle, or you might find yourself disappointed in the future. That's why I believe passion is important.

Both professions make more than enough money. I'm not passionate about any sort of work, hence why I'd prefer the one with the better lifestyle.

 

[Hemorrage]

How did you get LORs for both types of schools?

 

[Bokken]

How did you get LORs for both types of schools?

I didn't use a school committee. I used separate dentist/physician LORs and my professors/employers were fine tweaking the same LOR to say doctor/dentist.

 

[Mountaineer12]

Thank you for your answer.
Are there any specialties in medicine, aside from primary care, where one can have an under 40 hour workweek and aren't outrageously competitive like Derm/Optho?

Maybe Pathology. It's probably not under 40 hours, but not a ton more either, and it isn't very competitive.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Both professions make more than enough money. I'm not passionate about any sort of work, hence why I'd prefer the one with the better lifestyle.

My girlfriend is in dental school, and I am in medical school. She studies a lot, and I probably study just a bit more. I will have a residency (which will probably suck) during the "prime" years of my life and she won't have to do one.

In my opinion, dentistry affords a better work/life balance, as some dentists only work a few days a week. It is also by and large a 9-5 job. However, it depends on what you are interested in and can see yourself doing for years on end.

 

[HughMyron]

IMO the problem with dentistry is that it forces you into a procedural, surgical job, and not everyone wants that. Also, IIRC unless you do OMFS, you don't expect to earn more than 200K. Finally, Dental School is pretty expensive too.

If you like lifestyle, and can't get into Derm, why not consider Psychiatry? From what I've heard, you can expect to work 40-55 hrs/week, they have less call, they have the fewest malpractice concerns out of anybody, they have loan forgiveness opportunities, etc.

 

[Sidereum]

If you like lifestyle, and can't get into Derm, why not consider Psychiatry? From what I've heard, you can expect to work 40-55 hrs/week, they have less call, they have the fewest malpractice concerns out of anybody, they have loan forgiveness opportunities, etc.

+1

I think about one-third of psychiatrists actually work LESS than 40 hours (possibly even 30 hours) a week, and can make good money considering their time spent on the job. There's also a lot of flexibility about the way you practice, I.E. therapy vs. med management (oftentimes both), cash vs. insurance, private practice vs. academia, etc.

Of course, dermatology, pathology, emergency medicine, and a few others can lead to very good lifestyles (although you'll only want to go the EM route if you can handle 10-12 hour shifts, and a fair amount of nights). If lifestyle is your thing, medicine has options, not all of which are terribly competitive.

Finally, I would say if you aren't going to absolutely love your work, your going to be miserable going into either medicine or dentistry, regardless of how many hours you pull. Both can lead to good lifestyles, so if that's your major concern, I would say go with whatever you think you will enjoy more.

 

[nabilesmail]

ER medicine. Don't they work 30-40 hrs/week?

 

[Sidereum]

ER medicine. Don't they work 30-40 hrs/week?

Yep, although the work itself is quite intense. From what I can tell, they're "on" all the time, working pretty much constantly for up to twelve hours. But they can easily work only three shifts a week.

 

[Narmerguy]

Another vote for dental if you're looking for the better lifestyle.

Dental hands down has a better lifestyle and quite high compensation as well. If those are what you are looking for, it'll definitely do the job.

The best lifestyles in medicine is really kind of "maleable". You can make it what you want if you're willing to take less pay. You can't work part-time typically, but there's probably a few practices that will let you work less hours. Dermatology is a classic one. I know a psych person who only worked 4 hours a week. Dental is still better as far as hours go imo.

 

[TheDoitch]

Dentists have one of the highest rates of suicide for any profession. Become a doctor.

http://voices.yahoo.com/professions-highest-suicide-rates-dentistry-5855870.html

 

[Sidereum]

Dental hands down has a better lifestyle and quite high compensation as well. If those are what you are looking for, it'll definitely do the job.

The best lifestyles in medicine is really kind of "maleable". You can make it what you want if you're willing to take less pay. You can't work part-time typically, but there's probably a few practices that will let you work less hours. Dermatology is a classic one. I know a psych person who only worked 4 hours a week. Dental is still better as far as hours go imo.

Another good point. If the pay/work hours ratio is the determining factor, dentistry will almost always win out. But still, go with what you actually want to be doing for the rest of your working life (barring a radical career change).

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Classic. How much did you BS at all the medical schools and in your personal statement about how medicine was your life?

Don't go to medical school. You obviously have no skin in the game except in figuring out how you can get a good lifestyle out of it. You're gonna be super pissed off during residency when you're getting paid 40K to work 80 hours a week to do something you just wanted to do for lifestyle reasons anyway.

I like the way people are like "do path, no do psych, no how about some FM?" Those are all crazily different fields and the way to choose between them is not about which ones are gonna have the best lifestyle. If you can't stand looking at microscope slides all day you're going to be miserable in path no matter how many hours you're working. On the other hand, if you hate looking in dirty mouths all day, you're going to hate dentistry. There's a bit more at play than "which one gives me the best money for the least amount of work?"

 

[HughMyron]

Classic. How much did you BS at all the medical schools and in your personal statement about how medicine was your life?

Don't go to medical school. You obviously have no skin in the game except in figuring out how you can get a good lifestyle out of it. You're gonna be super pissed off during residency when you're getting paid 40K to work 80 hours a week to do something you just wanted to do for lifestyle reasons anyway.

I like the way people are like "do path, no do psych, no how about some FM?" Those are all crazily different fields and the way to choose between them is not about which ones are gonna have the best lifestyle. If you can't stand looking at microscope slides all day you're going to be miserable in path no matter how many hours you're working. On the other hand, if you hate looking in dirty mouths all day, you're going to hate dentistry. There's a bit more at play than "which one gives me the best money for the least amount of work?"

Come on man, don't be so harsh.

I think everyone, to some extent, is concerned about lifestyle.The difference is how we define "lifestyle." For example, I consider lifestyle as "being able to have see my family more than once a week as an Attending." For other people, they might think of lifestyle as "maximum money for minimum hours."

If you think about the latter, I suggest Dentistry. If you want the former, I think most medical (and a few surgical) fields can accommodate you after Residency

 

[Sephiroth]

PM&R and Allergy/immun are supposed to be pretty good lifestyles and probably pay at least what a dentist would make, and they're not as super competitive to get into as derm, plus in med school you could still try for derm too.

For the record, I am opposed to one going into medicine just for money and an eventually easy lifestyle as I am a reapplicant who knows people who got in that just want to be dermatologists in south florida working 30 hour weeks and that irritates me. But I'm a realist too.

 

[ZoakRoak]

PM&R and Allergy/immun are supposed to be pretty good lifestyles and probably pay at least what a dentist would make, and they're not as super competitive to get into as derm, plus in med school you could still try for derm too.

For the record, I am opposed to one going into medicine just for money and an eventually easy lifestyle as I am a reapplicant who knows people who got in that just want to be dermatologists in south florida working 30 hour weeks and that irritates me. But I'm a realist too.

Why does that irritate you exactly? A bad dermatologist cost me excess skin issues. Maybe the guys you know who wanted 30 hr weeks were actually really good within that field and wouldn't have cost me like the other one did. If they are great at what they do and they can help me, I don't care how they got in nor do I care about their original motivations.

 

[Sidereum]

Classic. How much did you BS at all the medical schools and in your personal statement about how medicine was your life?

Don't go to medical school. You obviously have no skin in the game except in figuring out how you can get a good lifestyle out of it. You're gonna be super pissed off during residency when you're getting paid 40K to work 80 hours a week to do something you just wanted to do for lifestyle reasons anyway.

I like the way people are like "do path, no do psych, no how about some FM?" Those are all crazily different fields and the way to choose between them is not about which ones are gonna have the best lifestyle. If you can't stand looking at microscope slides all day you're going to be miserable in path no matter how many hours you're working. On the other hand, if you hate looking in dirty mouths all day, you're going to hate dentistry. There's a bit more at play than "which one gives me the best money for the least amount of work?"

It's too much of your life to waste if all you want to do is get paid the most for doing the least amount of work. If your not passionate about it (and if you can't decide between dentistry and medicine, it doesn't sound like you are), you're going to hate it.

 

[HughMyron]

PM&R and Allergy/immun are supposed to be pretty good lifestyles and probably pay at least what a dentist would make, and they're not as super competitive to get into as derm, plus in med school you could still try for derm too.

For the record, I am opposed to one going into medicine just for money and an eventually easy lifestyle as I am a reapplicant who knows people who got in that just want to be dermatologists in south florida working 30 hour weeks and that irritates me. But I'm a realist too.

****ing everyone wants to be a dermatologist in Miami who works 30 hour weeks. That's why it's pretty much the hardest specialty to match into.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Come on man, don't be so harsh.

I think everyone, to some extent, is concerned about lifestyle.The difference is how we define "lifestyle." For example, I consider lifestyle as "being able to have see my family more than once a week as an Attending." For other people, they might think of lifestyle as "maximum money for minimum hours."

If you think about the latter, I suggest Dentistry. If you want the former, I think most medical (and a few surgical) fields can accommodate you after Residency

I don't really care about motivation either within the medical field. However, this is a horrible way to choose between the two professions. This question isn't like "I like gen surg and ortho, which one should I choose?" or "I like IM but I like pediatrics too, what should I do?". This question is "I don't really love dentistry or medicine that much, so which one is gonna maximize my amount of money for the best lifestyle?"

Saying "I'm not passionate about any sort of work" isn't the right answer. That's how we get bad doctors...if you can't even say you're actually excited about the idea of what any type of physician does it's a bad idea to be one. Those are the attendings you see clocking in and out of work every day, pissed off because they even have to be in the hospital and trying to get out of there as fast as possible.

Now if the question was "I think I'll like surgery but I might like dentistry too", that might be a better question. That isn't the question..the OP is trying to decide between two completely totally different fields (apparently PM&R, FM, or EM and dentistry?) based on which one gets to work the least.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Why does that irritate you exactly? A bad dermatologist cost me excess skin issues. Maybe the guys you know who wanted 30 hr weeks were actually really good within that field and wouldn't have cost me like the other one did. If they are great at what they do and they can help me, I don't care how they got in nor do I care about their original motivations.

Yeah and maybe that bad dermatologist never actually wanted to be a dermatologist but went into it so he could work 35hr weeks for 300K a year so he never reads up on the latest derm literature, doesn't keep up with the latest research and never goes to conferences so he can make his tee time every week after he gets to toss the last patient out the door? Ever think of that one?

Considering lifestyle ALONG with other aspects is just fine, I'm not some idealist. However, if someone goes into a specialty just so they can get out of work at 5 every day, it's pretty unlikely that they're going to be very passionate about their field. Thus, increasing the likelihood that they're going to be a bad physician in that field.

 

[Sephiroth]

Why does that irritate you exactly? A bad dermatologist cost me excess skin issues. Maybe the guys you know who wanted 30 hr weeks were actually really good within that field and wouldn't have cost me like the other one did. If they are great at what they do and they can help me, I don't care how they got in nor do I care about their original motivations.

Because at interviews they poke and prod at you to test your motivations, to judge if you are so altruistic in your intents, yet while I know my motives are not to make as much money doing as little work as possible, other people were able to bs their way through this while that is their motive. I feel you on the whole being good at what they do being the most important thing, but the admissions process doesn't look at like that, yet I and many others with much more venerable intentions get digned through this process in a very backward way. It's the dark irony of it really that bothers me.

Yeah and maybe that bad dermatologist never actually wanted to be a dermatologist but went into it so he could work 35hr weeks for 300K a year so he never reads up on the latest derm literature, doesn't keep up with the latest research and never goes to conferences so he can make his tee time every week after he gets to toss the last patient out the door? Ever think of that one?

Considering lifestyle ALONG with other aspects is just fine, I'm not some idealist. However, if someone goes into a specialty just so they can get out of work at 5 every day, it's pretty unlikely that they're going to be very passionate about their field. Thus, increasing the likelihood that they're going to be a bad physician in that field.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Sure dentists tend to work less hours per week, but I don't really think most of them are raking in cash like some people think. Most come out with just as much debt, if not more, than the average med student. Obviously they can start making money quicker since they aren't required to do a residency, but starting as an associate I think they average just over 100k, which disappears quick after loan repayments. To start making serious money (~250k), most dentists need to own their own practice, which also costs quite a bit of money to start up. I'm not saying that money is the most important factor when choosing a career, simply that I don't really understand why everyone thinks dentistry is a ticket to riches.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a dent grad wants to do a residency (ortho, endo, etc), don't they have to pay for the training?

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Sure dentists tend to work less hours per week, but I don't really think most of them are raking in cash like some people think. Most come out with just as much debt, if not more, than the average med student. Obviously they can start making money quicker since they aren't required to do a residency, but starting as an associate I think they average just over 100k, which disappears quick after loan repayments. To start making serious money (~250k), most dentists need to own their own practice, which also costs quite a bit of money to start up. I'm not saying that money is the most important factor when choosing a career, simply that I don't really understand why everyone thinks dentistry is a ticket to riches.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a dent grad wants to do a residency (ortho, endo, etc), don't they have to pay for the training?

It's mostly because they have no problem getting paid. Dental/vision insurance works very different than medical insurance. Many dental insurances pay up to a set amount and then you can go to whatever dentist you want after that. So if your dentist charges twice the amount your insurance covers for a procedure but you like that dentist, insurance will cover half and you pay half. Very, verryyy different than the medical insurance system. Dentists usually have no problem getting paid on time because they just charge you the difference on the way out the door, which is very different than most private practice doctors. You can also go on payment plans for crowns and implants and all kinds of crazy stuff.

 

[ZoakRoak]

I will add though that with medicine, it seems like more anti-wealth individuals are entering the system in an attempt to bring wages for everyone down. In addition, many people in the USA through politics have grown a disdain for wealthy and successful individuals. Doctors are naturally in a prime positions so I would expect that earnings will decrease with such volatile elements polluting the system.

 

[Renaissance Man]

Sure dentists tend to work less hours per week, but I don't really think most of them are raking in cash like some people think. Most come out with just as much debt, if not more, than the average med student. Obviously they can start making money quicker since they aren't required to do a residency, but starting as an associate I think they average just over 100k, which disappears quick after loan repayments. To start making serious money (~250k), most dentists need to own their own practice, which also costs quite a bit of money to start up. I'm not saying that money is the most important factor when choosing a career, simply that I don't really understand why everyone thinks dentistry is a ticket to riches.

Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but if a dent grad wants to do a residency (ortho, endo, etc), don't they have to pay for the training?

You are right on. An associate dentist who doesn't own their own practice and works a normal work week can probably expect $100-150K depending on the area. Remember that opening a practice (or buying an existing one) is a ton of money and that could be on top of your school loans. Dentists make a good living, but SDN over-exaggerates it a bit.

Some dental residencies are paid and with others the resident has to pay. I don't know the distinction between the two.

 

[88845]

It's mostly because they have no problem getting paid. Dental/vision insurance works very different than medical insurance. Many dental insurances pay up to a set amount and then you can go to whatever dentist you want after that. So if your dentist charges twice the amount your insurance covers for a procedure but you like that dentist, insurance will cover half and you pay half. Very, verryyy different than the medical insurance system. Dentists usually have no problem getting paid on time because they just charge you the difference on the way out the door, which is very different than most private practice doctors. You can also go on payment plans for crowns and implants and all kinds of crazy stuff.

This is where organized medicine royally f*cked up.

 

[Aerus]

Dermatology. Which is why it's so competitive.

If you want a nice lifestyle and good pay go to dentistry. Medicine can make you more money but you'll be working harder and it also depends on the specialty you enter. Going into medicine and doing primary care is an example of working too hard to earn too little

Not saying you're wrong, since you probably know more than me, but why is that? I've shadowed primary care physicians before and their lifestyle doesn't seem so bad. It seems pretty chill, actually, when you compare it to other non-ROAD residencies. Their compensation leave more to be desired, but how are they working too hard?

 

[Toothshucker]

I think you should post this in the dental forum as well. BTW, many of the figures mentioned here regarding earnings are inaccurate or a incomplete picture.

Out of curiosity, when you applied to dental school, did you disclose that you were currently applying to medical school on the application?

What dental schools were you accepted too?

 

[OCDOCDOCD]

Dentistry offers the better lifestyle, by far. There's good money in dentistry too, especially orthodontics.

You should really be more concerned about going into what you'll enjoy though. If you find dentistry boring and surgery awesome, then 40 hours a week of dentistry may be hellilsh compared to 80 hours of surgery.