Which is the easiest residency field to go into

[appletrees]

Need help choosing a specialty. I'm an average student with average board scores. Ideally something that has good hours, good schedule and laid back and not a lot of reading. Too burned out to do anything that has long hours.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Bacchus]

All residencies are inherently hard. The problem is when you compare a residency such as mine, FM, to a residency such as surgery that one seems "harder" than the other. If you're truly burned out, then you should seek help at your school for this.

Is FM laid back? Yes.
Does FM have good hours? Only when you're an attending.

 

[clausewitz2]

If you like the population and don't actually need to be clearing more than half a mil a year to be happy, psych meets your criteria nicely.

If you don't like the population, pick something else. Lord knows we don't need more psychiatrists who are indifferent at what they do and dislike their patients.

 

[Raryn]

I recommend neurosurgery, I hear it's really laid back.

 

[bashwell]

Need help choosing a specialty. I'm an average student with average board scores. Ideally something that has good hours, good schedule and laid back and not a lot of reading. Too burned out to do anything that has long hours.

Complete a prelim/intern year, then get out of medicine and do something else (e.g. work for a pharmaceuticals company)?

 

[typhoonegator]

The hours and effort feel different if you actually care about the subject matter. That's what you need to decide. I could sell shoes at Macy's with an easy schedule and very little reading, but I' be ready to end my existence within a week. Being a doctor means atypical hours, especially as a resident. Also, getting out and working as a bottom-rung employee for pharm or biotech company is hypercompetitive and likely far more challenging than many residencies if you actually care about being successful and/or remaining employed. Sure, you don't have call, but you also might not have a job in 3 months.

 

[bashwell]

The hours and effort feel different if you actually care about the subject matter. That's what you need to decide. I could sell shoes at Macy's with an easy schedule and very little reading, but I' be ready to end my existence within a week. Being a doctor means atypical hours, especially as a resident. Also, getting out and working as a bottom-rung employee for pharm or biotech company is hypercompetitive and likely far more challenging than many residencies if you actually care about being successful and/or remaining employed. Sure, you don't have call, but you also might not have a job in 3 months.

I agree with this.

My point to the OP is maybe clinical medicine isn't what he or she ultimately wants.

Not that other roads are easier. Life is full of challenges almost everywhere we look. But if the OP is truly as he or she describes, then they might prefer to face the non-clinical medical challenges to the clinical medical challenges.

For eg I have a friend who works for a video game company. He loves his job, great six figure salary, great lifestyle except for some of the crazy round the clock hours they work the month prior to deadlines, etc. He loves it all. Except he has to change jobs every few years because video game companies apparently depend on contracts to make a game. No contract, then no job. But some people like my friend prefer this rather than dealing with everything I have to deal with as a doctor, risks and rewards and all. It doesnt completely make sense to me, but to each their own.

I'd add OP may need to be realistic though if they have a lot of debt or dependents or whatever, and do what they don't enjoy in order to get to where they want to be someday.

 

[PMR_doc]

I will personally say that my specialty, as my name indicates, is a great match for many of the things that you are looking for. The better than avg schedule, laid back feel, non-urgency of most pts./consults, etc. is one of the reasons I switched from rads which was hyperintense to PMR. It has gotten quite a bit more competitive in the past few years, but still manageable. You can find good gigs out there, and there are many things you can do within the field, which is nice. It also allows the potential for more admin type stuff in the future if that's your thing also. I think it's a great specialty.

Another specialty which is pretty laid back is occupational medicine, which has quite a significant # of jobs. Most of the jobs are in clinics, with regular 8-5 type schedules, seeing a variety of pts. You can also do more corporate type stuff - reviewer, etc. which pays a decent salary without the intensity of many other specialties. Sure you will likely not make a ton, but somewhere around primary care salaries with a lot less stress.
Also not that many US grads go into it, so not hypercompetitive either.
I agree with you that burnout is a big issue, and certainly don't go into a high intensity field if you are burned out.

Need help choosing a specialty. I'm an average student with average board scores. Ideally something that has good hours, good schedule and laid back and not a lot of reading. Too burned out to do anything that has long hours.

 

[Bacchus]

I will personally say that my specialty, as my name indicates, is a great match for many of the things that you are looking for. The better than avg schedule, laid back feel, non-urgency of most pts./consults, etc. is one of the reasons I switched from rads which was hyperintense to PMR. It has gotten quite a bit more competitive in the past few years, but still manageable. You can find good gigs out there, and there are many things you can do within the field, which is nice. It also allows the potential for more admin type stuff in the future if that's your thing also. I think it's a great specialty.

Another specialty which is pretty laid back is occupational medicine, which has quite a significant # of jobs. Most of the jobs are in clinics, with regular 8-5 type schedules, seeing a variety of pts. You can also do more corporate type stuff - reviewer, etc. which pays a decent salary without the intensity of many other specialties. Sure you will likely not make a ton, but somewhere around primary care salaries with a lot less stress.
Also not that many US grads go into it, so not hypercompetitive either.
I agree with you that burnout is a big issue, and certainly don't go into a high intensity field if you are burned out.

I still don't know what PMR does and I'm graduating in June. Oops.

 

[j4pac]

PM&R can definitely be intense...especially if you go to one of the big inpatient based programs...but the mass majority are very benign. It has the best residency quality of life based on this study: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/ama-wir...ntent=MorningRounds&utm_campaign=BHCMessageID

The top four in the study:
1) PM&R
2) Dermatology
3) Radiology Oncology
4) Orthopedics
5) Emergency Medicine

Occ Med is also very benign...but it is often a fellowship on top of a 3 year residency.

 

[Law2Doc]

I'll echo what typhoonegator above said. If you enjoy it and are busy the days fly by. If you don't enjoy it and aren't mentally engaged/challenged, minutes can seem like hours. I've done legal projects involving extensive document review, very normal business hours, and it felt much longer to me than some of the 80+ hours I logged during intern year.

I kind of worry when someone expresses being burned out BEFORE residency. The mountain climb hasn't started yet -- med school is really about getting to base camp. Residency is hard and the early years post residency sure aren't more relaxing. It may pay to try and get your head in the game or seriously consider delaying graduation to do a research year or something.

 

[RadOncDoc21]

PM&R can definitely be intense...especially if you go to one of the big inpatient based programs...but the mass majority are very benign. It has the best residency quality of life based on this study: http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/ama-wir...ntent=MorningRounds&utm_campaign=BHCMessageID

The top four in the study:
1) PM&R
2) Dermatology
3) Radiology Oncology
4) Orthopedics
5) Emergency Medicine

Occ Med is also very benign...but it is often a fellowship on top of a 3 year residency.

I always cringe when I hear "Radiology Oncology."

 

[Moose A Moose]

FM or psych. Maybe radiology.

 

[tiedyeddog]

I recommend neurosurgery, I hear it's really laid back.

oh yeah, plenty of sleep and low acuity patients.

 

[Law2Doc]

oh yeah, plenty of sleep and low acuity patients.

It's just brains -- no moving parts. They say we only use about 10% of it anyway, so what's the big deal?

 

[tiedyeddog]

It's just brains -- no moving parts. They say we only use about 10% of it anyway, so what's the big deal?

Hey now, those spine bones move. And when they move too much those spine bones must be instrumented.

Me see spine bone broke, me must fix!

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

FM or psych. Maybe radiology.

The guy said not much reading, psych is out.

 

[hamstergang]

The guy said not much reading, medicine is out.

I think that's more accurate.

 

[PMR_doc]

Radiology is one of the most intense specialties out there in terms of massive amounts of reading that needs to be done, knowledge base, liability. It's like a hamster wheel all day. If someone is burnt out, the last residency they should do is rads! Not only is it long - 6+ yrs. but the level of reading you have to do daily in order ot be a good radiologist and the level of knowledge, detail you have to have is quite significant. it's not an error and trial field.

 

[gutonc]

Radiology is one of the most intense specialties out there in terms of massive amounts of reading that needs to be done, knowledge base, liability. It's like a hamster wheel all day. If someone is burnt out, the last residency they should do is rads! Not only is it long - 6+ yrs. but the level of reading you have to do daily in order ot be a good radiologist and the level of knowledge, detail you have to have is quite significant. it's not an error and trial field.

I'm amazed that we got to post #19 before the first "Specialty X is way harder than you people in Specialty Y think it is" post.

Extra credit for the fact that it didn't come from a Derm resident.

Good work everybody.

 

[bluewindow]

a

 

[DrBowtie]

I'm amazed that we got to post #19 before the first "Specialty X is way harder than you people in Specialty Y think it is" post.

Extra credit for the fact that it didn't come from a Derm resident.

Good work everybody.

Extra extra credit since it wasn't their own specialty they were defending.

 

[cerebral edema]

I still don't know what PMR does and I'm graduating in June. Oops.

No one knows what PM&R does.

 

[Dral]

Dermatology is so much more reading than other specialties.

I'm not a Derm resident anymore, so can I still get like half a point extra credit?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Radiology is one of the most intense specialties out there in terms of massive amounts of reading that needs to be done, knowledge base, liability. It's like a hamster wheel all day. If someone is burnt out, the last residency they should do is rads! Not only is it long - 6+ yrs. but the level of reading you have to do daily in order ot be a good radiologist and the level of knowledge, detail you have to have is quite significant. it's not an error and trial field.

5 years (includes Prelim Med or Surgery internship).

 

[Raryn]

5 years (includes Prelim Med or Surgery internship).

I assumed he was talking about in the current job market. It's 5 years, plus the inevitable 1-2 fellowships if you want to get work.

 

[RangerBob]

No one knows what PM&R does.

Neurosurgery and half the other services still write "PMNR" in their dispo plan--sometimes I feel like I spend half my day explaining what we do to other residents/providers.

 

[Winged Scapula]

I assumed he was talking about in the current job market. It's 5 years, plus the inevitable 1-2 fellowships if you want to get work.

Perhaps but he didn't state that so it needs to be clarified.

 

[Law2Doc]

Perhaps but he didn't state that so it needs to be clarified.

No harm clarifying, but if fellowship in a specialty has essentially become mandatory (which is what I gather Raryn is saying), I think it needs to be looked at as just another part of the years of training.

 

[Winged Scapula]

No harm clarifying, but if fellowship in a specialty has essentially become mandatory (which is what I gather Raryn is saying), I think it needs to be looked at as just another part of the years of training.

Fair enough and I hang around radiologists enough that I get it but still feel the post should have said, "FAIAP DR is a 6+ year training period".

 

[MLT2MT2DO]

Dermatology is so much more reading than other specialties.

I'm not a Derm resident anymore, so can I still get like half a point extra credit?

Picture books don't count as "reading"

 

[Dral]

Heh, good one.

We remedials gotta start somewhere I guess.

Right, we go from 260 step 1 to Goodnight Moon in three years flat.

 

[appletrees]

Bashwell, you mentioned getting a pharmaceutical job without residency - what type of job and whats involved?
are there other fields that you could work with out residency or: with an intern year?

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Have you considered pathology? It's laid back, with good hours, low stress for some.

However, there's lots of reading / pushing glass involved.

 

[gutonc]

Bashwell, you mentioned getting a pharmaceutical job without residency - what type of job and whats involved?
are there other fields that you could work with out residency or: with an intern year?

Hey...welcome back. It's pretty uncommon for a new user to post a question like this and then ever bother to check back in.

But perhaps this should have been your OP. "How can I make bank, pay back my insane student loan debt, and never have to do anything even remotely related to medicine again?". Before today, I would have said "start a fantasy sports betting league" but since even Las Vegas is turning it's back on that....

The short answer to your question is that, any job that you can get with an MD but zero clinical experience/training, is a job that you could have gotten without the MD. And believe me, I've been looking (despite loving my clinical job). The best such offer I've seen (and turned down) was after completing a subspecialty fellowship. It was with a large pharmaceutical company that shall remain nameless (rhymes with Yo Fart Is) and paid about an average academic Ass Prof salary.

 

[Leo Aquarius]

Hey, just noticed this poster appletrees just posted in the Psychiatry forum asking a whole bunch of questions about Psychiatry that anyone with a working index finger could find out on his or her own with a little effort.

 

[path or no path]

Need help choosing a specialty. I'm an average student with average board scores. Ideally something that has good hours, good schedule and laid back and not a lot of reading. Too burned out to do anything that has long hours.

psych, PM&R.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

There are many great subspecialties off of IM...

Rheum, which is what I'm doing, is really interesting and has tons of basic science (which I find cool) plus easy hours as both a fellow and attending. (I guess it wouldn't meet your 'little reading' criterion, but honestly, you're going to have to read in any specialty to get good at it and you'll WANT to if it's the right specialty).

Endo, ID, heme/onc, geriatrics, etc all are similar.

Problem is you have to get through IM residency - which can be a ball buster at times.

PM&R might be the best bet for a relatively average student who wants flexibility.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Dermatology is so much more reading than other specialties.

I'm not a Derm resident anymore, so can I still get like half a point extra credit?

Bull****. It is not 'so much more reading' than general internal medicine, especially if you're trying to be a good internist. And it sure as hell isn't more reading than heme/onc, ID or rheumatology - or pulm/crit for that matter.

 

[Dral]

Bull****. It is not 'so much more reading' than general internal medicine, especially if you're trying to be a good internist. And it sure as hell isn't more reading than heme/onc, ID or rheumatology - or pulm/crit for that matter.

I'm sure trainees in all the specialties you mentioned all do their fair share of reading. I honestly don't know how much residents in other specialties read throughout the entirety of their training. However...

A. I would post all the reading I did during just my first year of residency (residency does not equal fellowship), but I don't feel the need to prove myself to anyone in this thread. Remember, I did an intern year (at a well respected academic center I may add). I saw what my fellow categorical intern colleagues were doing and it was not nearly as much as I did the following year. Who knows, maybe they read a ton more in their second and third years...but it doesn't really matter in the end beecaaaaaaause...

B. My post was just meant to be a joke going off of what gutonc said. (I sincerely thank them for bringing Derm into this...always a pleasure to deal with the resulting flames). Anyway, it was meant to be a lighthearted jab at derm as in something a derm resident might say in response to what gutonc suggested....hence my extra credit comment.

C. Thanks for the expletive. So necessary.

 

[iskander07]

You have a pulse and a medical degree, you can get internal medicine somewhere.

 

[Law2Doc]

You have a pulse and a medical degree, you can get internal medicine somewhere.

Ease of landing a spot is not what OP apparently meant by "easiest". The focus of the post was hours, schedule, laid back environment, lack of reading and a field good for people feeling burned out even before they started. (Clearly, as mentioned above, neurosurgery fits that bill best...)

To be serious, OP I think you are in for a world of hurt going into ANY residency with that frame of mind. Consider delaying graduation and doing a research year and get your mojo back. Whatever path you take you'll be running hard and fast for the next 3+ years compared to med school. The intensity goes up, not down in the near term.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Heh, good one.

We remedials gotta start somewhere I guess.

Right, we go from 260 step 1 to Goodnight Moon in three years flat.

Couldn't let that little jab to your ego go unanswered.

 

[Dral]

Couldn't let that little jab to your ego go unanswered.

Let me cut on someone else's chosen specialty and see how they react (I know, I know, it won't bother them at all, right? ). At least I also made a jab at my specialty elsewhere in the thread.

And for the record, I was actually no where near 260 on step 1. Wish I could claim I was. However, I am relatively proud of the visual diagnostic skills I've attained...as well as those of my colleagues.

Haters gonna hate.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

Let me cut on your chosen specialty and see how you react (I know, I know, it won't bother you at all, right? ). At least I also made a jab at my specialty elsewhere in the thread.

And for the record, I was actually no where near 260 on step 1. Wish I could claim I was. However, I am relatively proud of the visual diagnostic skills I've attained...as well as those of my colleagues.

Haters gonna hate.

I don't care if it's about derm, PM&R, psych, ortho, w/e, just think it says more about the person than the specialty when you feel the need to respond even semi-seriously to obvious jokes on a message board. You also killed the original joke from gutonc by basically just repeating what he said....

 

[Dral]

I don't care if it's about derm, PM&R, psych, ortho, w/e, just think it says more about the person than the specialty when you feel the need to respond even semi-seriously to obvious jokes on a message board. You also killed the original joke from gutonc by basically just repeating what he said....

...and I guess it says more about the person that feels the need, for some reason, to point out when someone else has obviously responded to a jab to their ego.

I believe I have overstayed any small amount of welcome I may have had in this thread, and I have managed to not contribute anything to the original intent of the thread...so I will step out now.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

...and I guess it says more about the person that feels the need, for some reason, to point out when someone else has obviously responded to a jab to their ego.

I believe I have overstayed any small amount of welcome I may have had in this thread, and I have managed to not contribute anything to the original intent of the thread...so I will step out now.

Your original post (before you re-edited the entire thing) which went something along the lines of "sorry for making gutonc's joke unfunny but you and me will never meet in real life so you won't be exposed to my character flaws" must not have been aggressive enough for you. You're basically personifying the stereotype that was joked about in the first place...you came in half joking but then immediately jumped to talking about 260s on step 1 and visual diagnostic skills and how much more reading you had to do than medicine interns at your well respected academic center.

 

[Dral]

I often type things out and re-edit them. I decided a while ago that when posting on SDN, I would try my hardest to mainly try to be helpful and not get in personal back and forths with people. Often the things I type I don't like later, so I will often go back and change them....ah the convenience of the edit.

My original post was all joke actually, not half...other posts, not all joke I guess. Anyway, I believe you've made your point. I'd appreciate if you could stop making personal judgements about me...whether true or not, even if this is just a message board. Thank you.

Would be great if we could get the thread back on track...OP, if you have the scores, you could try for Derm honestly. It's really not a difficult residency relative to many others. I'd say my weekly time in clinic was 40 hours M to F. I was a bit busier on call weeks. Sometimes consult months were a litte rough too.

Most programs will have you read a decent amount out of clinic time, but the nice thing is that it is on your time to read when you want. Unfortunately most Derm programs really stress the yearly in service exam, so that requires some studying, but it's relevant for when you'd also be studying for boards so it's not bad. I'm guessing all residency fields really do require at least a decent amount of reading. My categorical intern colleagues didn't seem to read a bunch from books, but they were trying to keep up with current journals as far as I could tell. It's a different type of reading. So that's something to consider when choosing.

Reading isn't that bad, but if you learn a different way, there may be other methods to learn material based on the specialty you choose.

Feel free to also PM me if you want to know anything else.

 

[WingedOx]

Neurosurgery and half the other services still write "PMNR" in their dispo plan--sometimes I feel like I spend half my day explaining what we do to other residents/providers.

I've always typed it shorthand as "PMnR". Probably too casual for documentation, but I do it without thinking and usually don't catch myself.

Where I'm at now, the appointment reminder sheets that our patients get list PM&R appointments as "PHYSIATRY" while psych appointments are listed as "MH". That creates some fun confusion a couple times per month.

...and actually on that note, I needed one more elective rotation as a 4th year med student and didn't have time to sign up for anything "cool or exotic", so I did a PM&R elective to close out the year. All the docs were honestly confused that a med student would want to rotate with them without actually wanting to go into the field. I'm not sure they had ever seen a med student follow them around as a straight up elective, and this was at one of the better programs in the region/country.

 

[Siggy]

paid about an average academic Ass Prof salary.

I thought GI paid well...