H
Hanta
Which Medical schools are research orientated and which ones are clinically orientated ?
Which Medical schools are research orientated and which ones are clinically orientate
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Most of the big names are respected in both fields. Some of the small names are more clinically oriented. I know that Duke and Mayo have a research component as a requirement for graduation. I'm sure that there are others that require it as well.
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UCSD is quite research oriented, particularly in the neurosciences. Sure, schools can be respected in both fields...but the vast majority are better at one than the other. Like Davis and OHSU are both very clinically oriented schools without even MSTPs.
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The University of Washington - Seattle is very research oriented and primary care/clincally oriented.
In fact, the consistantly rank #1 in primary care every year. They have awesome clerkships and programs for rural medicine and primary care throughout the pacific NW (i.e. rural Idaho, Alaska, Montana, etc).
They also have a very strong MD/PhD program and rank very highly each year in NIH reseach dollars. UW also requires their students to write a reseach thesis for graduation. So, I would think UW is equally strong in both research and clinical medicine.
In fact, the consistantly rank #1 in primary care every year. They have awesome clerkships and programs for rural medicine and primary care throughout the pacific NW (i.e. rural Idaho, Alaska, Montana, etc).
They also have a very strong MD/PhD program and rank very highly each year in NIH reseach dollars. UW also requires their students to write a reseach thesis for graduation. So, I would think UW is equally strong in both research and clinical medicine.
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U Penn is quite research-oriented, but I don't dare say it doesn't produce outstanding clinicians as well.
It also has a "Scholarly Pursuit" requirement - meaning that most med students take on a small study in their 4th year with most people publishing. It's very easy to do that here because of all the NIH $$$ flowing everywhere.
It also has a "Scholarly Pursuit" requirement - meaning that most med students take on a small study in their 4th year with most people publishing. It's very easy to do that here because of all the NIH $$$ flowing everywhere.
J
jot
penn state med (hershey medical school) has a research requirement as well - as does yale (thesis for grad) ... it seems like most of the state schools are very clinical training oriented, and produce many excellent doctors in private practice (though i'm sure they do go into academic med albeight in lower numbers). the "big schools" seem to be putting an emphasis on research to produce leaders in their respective fields, and hopefully instilling good patient oriented skills as well.
-jot
-jot
K
Katie
US News has rankings available for primary care and research online, but for the hospital rankings (if you want to know more than the top 10 in each field) you have to buy the magazine. Just a note, schools that are in the Top 10 have markedly different research and clinical facilities than schools in the lower part of the Top 50 or "lower tier" schools. I have seen labs at JHU, Tufts, and Maryland med, and JHU's facilities were amazing compared to the latter two schools (ranked #44 and #41 for research, respectively). Tufts and UMAB research facilties are on par with each other (maybe a little more lab space at UMAB), so if you are trying to decide between two schools with similar research rankings, you should probably look into other factors to help aid your decision.
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I wouldn't limit your 'good facilities' comment to the top 10. There are great research programs at medical schools that aren't in the top 10. For instance, UW Madison has one of the largest PhD programs in the country with some amazing facilities...UCLA is another not in the top 10, but with research facilities that compare with any place in the country. There are plenty more places as well.
Good luck all,
Adam
Good luck all,
Adam
K
Katie
true! UCLA is incredible; they are known by many as "NIH West". My dad got his PhD in Immunology from UCLA in what is arguably the best graduate program in Micro/Immuno in the country. I wish sometimes that we had stayed in Cali for the rest of my childhood so I could have gone to UCLA for undergrad..
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All the top schools are research-oriented. Seriously, if you are really interested in primary care, you should avoid top schools like plague; some of them even don't have family medicine departments! And their hard-core residency programs will drag your optimism down since the residents are always tired and want to get some damn sleep.
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Well, UCSF has a family medicine department and churns out quite a high percentage of primary care physicians. I'm sure other top ten schools produce excellent primary care clinicians as well.
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Other top ten schools can produce excellent primary care clinicians, but the problem is how many? Their atmosphere is not conducive to primary care at all, and being in that atmosphere for a couple years will drain whatever optimism you have about primary care or medicine in general.
All the residents worry about is what fellowships to apply and not what private group practice they want to join after finishing their medicine, peds or ob/gyn training. And many of them are stressed out or tired from working and attending conferences here and there. Lastly, evidence-based medicine is good but hearing it all the time kind of dehumanizes the pts a little. Because in the end, all you are talking about is the study being cited and argue about whether our pt fits into the cohort being followed in that study or whether the treatment plans compared are standards of care v.s. experimental.
You need to be on the ward and interact with those people first hand, and then maybe we will be on the same page (or maybe not, but that's what my experience has been).
I have always suspected that the fact UCSF produces lots of primary care docs is because it is in California. California is a heavily primary-care dominated region due to heavy HMO penetrance. And most residency spots reflect. Furthermore, going to internal medicine or pediatrics after graduating from UCSF does not mean one is going to devote the rest of his or her life to primary care. I again suspect that many of them apply for fellowships later on and become specialists.
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I also think that, although it is unfortunate, the cost of a medical instituition strongly influences the career choices of its medical students. The UC system is very inexpensive and I think this provides a less stressful economic strain on those wishing to enter a primary care field. 10-11K/year is a lot different than 30K/year. Most of the medical students I know at private institutions feel that a debt of 180K+ is difficult to manage with the salary of primary care physicians.
I definitely think that California's health care system calls for the 'production' of primary care physicians and this is done so mainly through its public medical schools, but I also think that orientations toward research and clinical skills are not mutually exclusive. Schools like UCLA and UCSF have definite priorities in primary care, but they also conduct a large amount of research. Most of the students that I have met at UCSF thus far have been gearing towards ob/gyn/psych/famprac/im/peds. I don't think they based their choices on the CA health care system. I think that there are schools that recognize the importance of both primary care and specialization and can provide students with solid opportunities to excel regardless of the direction they choose.
I definitely think that California's health care system calls for the 'production' of primary care physicians and this is done so mainly through its public medical schools, but I also think that orientations toward research and clinical skills are not mutually exclusive. Schools like UCLA and UCSF have definite priorities in primary care, but they also conduct a large amount of research. Most of the students that I have met at UCSF thus far have been gearing towards ob/gyn/psych/famprac/im/peds. I don't think they based their choices on the CA health care system. I think that there are schools that recognize the importance of both primary care and specialization and can provide students with solid opportunities to excel regardless of the direction they choose.
