Which medical schools focus on teaching physicians how to be educators?

[sunflower18]

Hello everyone! I wasn't quite sure where to post this, so hopefully this is the right spot.

I am really interested in teaching medical students, residents, or even undergrads in my career as a physician, and I feel that I would benefit from going to a school that had a "Medical Education Track" or a "Physician Educator Focus" or something like that.

Where can I find a list of schools that have options for you to pursue how to be an effective educator? Or, if no such list exists, could we put one together based on collective knowledge about different schools?

I know that Brown University, University of South Florida, and University of Chicago have something of the sort. Any others? Thanks all!

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[NickNaylor]

Teaching really becomes more prominent in your training once you enter residency rather than medical school. While you are certainly free to pursue schools that have these programs, I'm not convinced they'll be all that helpful to you. For what it's worth, I'm in the medical education track at my institution and it isn't all that helpful with respect to preparing you to teach. Probably the best thing you can do is to try and find programs where medical students have the opportunity to serve as TAs in the pre-clinical courses. I think that's probably the best teaching experience you can hope for.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Stanford also has a medical education scholarly concentration:
http://med.stanford.edu/meded/
But I'm not sure if it differs from the concentration at @NickNaylor 's program.
I have a question though, is such a concentration useful if you're interested in curriculum design for undergraduate medical education? Any feedback would be appreciated.

 

[Microglia]

Stanford also has a medical education scholarly concentration:
http://med.stanford.edu/meded/
But I'm not sure if it differs from the concentration at @NickNaylor 's program.
I have a question though, is such a concentration useful if you're interested in curriculum design for undergraduate medical education? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Eh, at the end of the day the easiest way to be involved in teaching is to stay in academia. It always pays less, but if you work at a teaching hospital or are on the faculty of a major academic center they tend to have teaching requirements. To develop your educational abilities, I'm sure those programs help a little. But the best way to ensure that you have teaching opportunities is to build a competitive CV for academic positions.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Eh, at the end of the day the easiest way to be involved in teaching is to stay in academia. It always pays less, but if you work at a teaching hospital or are on the faculty of a major academic center they tend to have teaching requirements. To develop your educational abilities, I'm sure those programs help a little. But the best way to ensure that you have teaching opportunities is to build a competitive CV for academic positions.

And I'm assuming that a dual degree (i.e. MD MPH or MD MS) would help if academia is your goal. Thanks for the feedback!

 

[NickNaylor]

And I'm assuming that a dual degree (i.e. MD MPH or MD MS) would help if academia is your goal. Thanks for the feedback!

Not necessarily. The rule with dual degrees is to make sure you actually have a reason for getting the degree before doing so. Don't get a second degree "just because you can:" it's a huge waste of your time and money, assuming you can even get in. Admissions programs look for this ambiguous degree-seeking behavior, so if you can't clearly articulate how a second degree will enhance your ability to be a physician or whatever your career goals are, you likely won't be successful.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Not necessarily. The rule with dual degrees is to make sure you actually have a reason for getting the degree before doing so. Don't get a second degree "just because you can:" it's a huge waste of your time and money, assuming you can even get in. Admissions programs look for this ambiguous degree-seeking behavior, so if you can't clearly articulate how a second degree will enhance your ability to be a physician or whatever your career goals are, you likely won't be successful.

I'm very interested in epidemiology, especially that which concerns MSK disease. So no, I wouldn't do this just to tack on degrees. But I do wish to remain in academia to conduct such research and if getting an additional degree is more advantageous than taking a few epidemiology courses, then I'm all for it.

 

[Charles_Carmichael]

I'm very interested in epidemiology, especially that which concerns MSK disease. So no, I wouldn't do this just to tack on degrees. But I do wish to remain in academia to conduct such research and if getting an additional degree is more advantageous than taking a few epidemiology courses, then I'm all for it.

Having a strong publication history is what will get your foot through the door in academia, not simply having an MPH or MS.

 

[sunflower18]

Teaching really becomes more prominent in your training once you enter residency rather than medical school. While you are certainly free to pursue schools that have these programs, I'm not convinced they'll be all that helpful to you. For what it's worth, I'm in the medical education track at my institution and it isn't all that helpful with respect to preparing you to teach. Probably the best thing you can do is to try and find programs where medical students have the opportunity to serve as TAs in the pre-clinical courses. I think that's probably the best teaching experience you can hope for.

Hmm, gotcha. That's really helpful feedback, especially because the Pritzker Medical Education Track looked like one of the most comprehensive ones. Thanks for letting me know! If I end up at a school with a track like that available, I'll probably do it, but maybe I shouldn't make the presence of an option like that one of my main criteria when looking/choosing. I appreciate your input!

Stanford also has a medical education scholarly concentration:
http://med.stanford.edu/meded/
But I'm not sure if it differs from the concentration at @NickNaylor 's program.
I have a question though, is such a concentration useful if you're interested in curriculum design for undergraduate medical education? Any feedback would be appreciated.

Oh, okay! Didn't know about that one. Thanks!

Yeah, I would be interested to know about curriculum design too.

Eh, at the end of the day the easiest way to be involved in teaching is to stay in academia. It always pays less, but if you work at a teaching hospital or are on the faculty of a major academic center they tend to have teaching requirements. To develop your educational abilities, I'm sure those programs help a little. But the best way to ensure that you have teaching opportunities is to build a competitive CV for academic positions.

I guess my main question about all of this is how are you supposed to be able to teach, see patients, and be productive in research all at the same time? I've heard that you can only do 2, but I'm sure that academic institutions want you to both see patients and do research... so how does anyone have time to teach?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Hmm, gotcha. That's really helpful feedback, especially because the Pritzker Medical Education Track looked like one of the most comprehensive ones. Thanks for letting me know! If I end up at a school with a track like that available, I'll probably do it, but maybe I shouldn't make the presence of an option like that one of my main criteria when looking/choosing. I appreciate your input!



Oh, okay! Didn't know about that one. Thanks!

Yeah, I would be interested to know about curriculum design too.



I guess my main question about all of this is how are you supposed to be able to teach, see patients, and be productive in research all at the same time? I've heard that you can only do 2, but I'm sure that academic institutions want you to both see patients and do research... so how does anyone have time to teach?

Stanford is more of a "5 year" medical school. I guess more time is how you make time for everything there. Other schools have dedicated research blocks and/or a somewhat shortened pre-clinical curriculum which can give you more time for these endeavors.

 

[WingedOx]

the cynic in me just wants to say that schools have tracks like that to look good, and don't really offer any outstanding advantages in your education (pretty much every GME-required teaching worship I've done has been a waste of two hours. I'd hate to dedicate any more time than that). Your hard knocks life experience in medicine will make you a good educator, as will learning from the behaviors of those above you, both good and bad.

 

[sunflower18]

Stanford is more of a "5 year" medical school. I guess more time is how you make time for everything there. Other schools have dedicated research blocks and/or a somewhat shortened pre-clinical curriculum which can give you more time for these endeavors.

Oh, no, I didn't mean in medical school. I meant as an attending.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Oh, no, I didn't mean in medical school. I meant as an attending.

Oh sorry. I'm not sure. I've only shadowed one academic doc. He told me he works just under 60 hrs a week and somehow he manages to see patients, do surgeries, didactics for students and residents (there was a fellow assisting him with some of the procedures). I noticed that he had research assistants that helped him compile data for outcomes studies. My guess is that an academic doctor will likely see less patients than one in private practice due to academic commitments. This sample is all I can offer. Maybe someone else can chime in.

 

[Microglia]

Re: Seeing patients, doing research, and teaching..it's pretty tough. The people I know currently doing it are spread quite thin in their personal life. During a conversation a while back with an MD/PhD who won the Lasker award for a major discovery, he warned me not to do the MD/PhD at all. Even he wondered whether all the sacrifices were worth it; he didn't think so any longer. Doing research, especially basic science, teaching, and practicing medicine are all things that people dedicate their lives to. To dedicate yourself to all 3 means that you're going to have to sacrifice among each of them, as well as pretty severely in your personal life when it comes to family and fun. That's probably the main reason most people don't end up pursuing academia. Why work your tail off for less money and longer hours up another ranked ladder when you could cut the hours in half and make twice as much now? Anyway, if it's what you love, you'll have to make the sacrifices for it.