Which of these schools should I cross off list?

[Frank22]

My background and statistics:

I am 23 years old, a first generation college student, and will have a B.A. in biology if and when I'm accepted. I will be applying in June of 2016. I currently have 112 college credits completed, and am still taking courses.

My first 59 credits were taken at a community college, last 53 at a university.

My overall GPA is currently 3.34 and my science GPA approximately 3.26. My subpar GPA is due to my first 28 credits at a community college, in which my overall and science GPA were about 2.5. Since then, I've maintained an average overall GPA of about 3.61 and a science GPA of 3.56. When I apply to dental school, my overall and science GPA will be about 3.4.

Unfortunately, I made the mistake of taking biology I and II, as well as general chemistry I at a CC (these were part of my first 28 credits). However, my entire time at university I've taken nothing but a full-time course load of science courses (intro to organic and biochemistry, general chemistry II [with lab.], human physiology, organic chemistry I and II [with lab.], biochemistry I and II, genetics [with lab.], general microbiology, physics I and II [with lab.], evolutionary biology, botany, biostatistics, scientific inquiry and communications, human anatomy, advanced human physiology, and histology) averaging a GPA of 3.56 for these classes.

DAT scores:

PAT: 17
QR: 21
RC: 21
BO: 25
GC: 26
OC: 22
TS: 24
AA: 23

I will have 2 LORs from science professors and 1 LOR from a dentist when I apply, along with 100+ shadowing hours and 100+ volunteering hours.

Which of the following schools should I cross off?:

Creighton
Midwestern AZ.
New England
Tufts
Missouri
U Penn.
Roseman
LECOM
Louisville
Midwestern Ill.
Boston
Temple
Case
Pitt
Tennessee
Marquette
Western
W. Va
NOVA
Kentucky
Maryland
UNLV
Rutgers

Sorry if I added any schools that I have no chance of getting into; I am not at all familiar with the particular statistics or requirements of the vast majority of the schools.

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[RuffDay]

List looks good.

 

[ahcten]

I don't think Tufts accepts CC credits at all.

 

[Frank22]

I don't think Tufts accepts CC credits at all.

I have heard mixed statements regarding the CC issue and Tufts. The thing is, I have taken human physiology, general chemistry II, biochemistry I and II, genetics, organic chemistry I and II, physics I and II, general microbiology, botany, evolutionary biology, biostatistics, human anatomy, histology, and advanced human physiology at university.

That, along with my DAT science scores, gave me impetus to e-mail them and see if they would be willing to make an accommodation. My decision to apply there will be based on their response.

 

[Frank22]

BTW, does anyone have a reasonable idea of how much the total cost would be? I intend to save up about $2,000 and use student loans to cover the rest.

 

[aznriptide859]

It's $244 for the first school, then $90 for each additional school.

Most schools also have a secondary app fee that ranges from $40-100.

 

[Frank22]

It's $244 for the first school, then $90 for each additional school.

Most schools also have a secondary app fee that ranges from $40-100.

So if I apply to all of the schools, that gives $244 + $90(22) = $2,224.
How much does an interview cost, on average?

 

[aznriptide859]

Including average hotel/flight costs, about $300-500 depending on distance and travel method (plane/drive + car rental or taxi).

Man, come to think of it, this whole app process is stupidly expensive T_T.

 

[Frank22]

Including average hotel/flight costs, about $300-500 depending on distance and travel method (plane/drive + car rental or taxi).

Man, come to think of it, this whole app process is stupidly expensive T_T.

Yeah it's pretty insane :/... But that gives $2,224 + $400 x (# of interviews) + secondary fees... so I guess $5,000 should cover it smh.

 

[Frank22]

For anyone who may be considering applying to Tufts with CC credits, this is what they said to me:

"Thank you for your interest in Tufts Dental. That is correct, we do not accept community college coursework for any of our pre-requisite courses. As such, you would need to retake any courses completed at a community college at an accredited 4 year institution in the U.S. or complete the equivalent number of credits in upper level coursework of the same discipline at a 4 year school. Based on the information you provided and as long as the courses listed meet our credit requirements and include the appropriate labs, it appears that you would have fulfilled our three semester Biology requirement by completing your credits in upper level coursework, Biochemistry, Physics, and Chemistry requirement, as your additional semester of organic chemistry could contribute towards the two semester inorganic chemistry requirement. Again, these courses would need to include labs as well and meet our credit requirements, which can be found on our website: http://dental.tufts.edu/admissions/dmd-program/. Please let us know if you have any questions after reviewing this information. Thank you and best of luck!"

 

[sjk20]

http://www.adea.org/dental_educatio...lInstructions/Pages/FeeAssistanceProgram.aspx

The Fee Assistance Program might be something you should consider if you feel like it would be hard to afford applying to dental school. Most of those schools on your list have secondary fees over $70....ridiculous, I know.

 

[Frank22]

http://www.adea.org/dental_educatio...lInstructions/Pages/FeeAssistanceProgram.aspx

The Fee Assistance Program might be something you should consider if you feel like it would be hard to afford applying to dental school. Most of those schools on your list have secondary fees over $70....ridiculous, I know.

Thank you; I will definitely apply.

 

[Domenick12]

I was in the same boat as you and did some pre-reqs at a CC. I didn't apply to Boston, Tufts, or Pitt because they don't take CC credits.

 

[Frank22]

I was in the same boat as you an did some pre-reqs at a CC. I didn't apply to Boston, Tufts, or Pitt because they don't take CC credits.

Tufts e-mailed me back and told me it would be fine because I've taken a similar number of credit hours in upper level courses at a university. I should probably contact Pitt and Boston, though.

 

[DetermineDent]

read into LECOM and western. They have PBL learning, see if that's a good fit for you. Cause it's def not for everybody.

If you don't mind a large class size, look into NYU.
Also look into Detroit Mercy, they have a nice program.

 

[still in school]

When you say western, are you referring to Midwestern? Both campus'?

 

[Frank22]

When you say western, are you referring to Midwestern? Both campus'?

By "Western" I was referring to the school in downtown Pomona, California, although I now have doubts about applying there given the ridiculous cost of living in California; I'd strongly prefer to live alone in Dental School.

read into LECOM and western. They have PBL learning, see if that's a good fit for you. Cause it's def not for everybody.

If you don't mind a large class size, look into NYU.
Also look into Detroit Mercy, they have a nice program.

I'm from Michigan and I will not be applying in-state, which is why neither UDM or UoM were on my list. I'm interested in LECOM, but I'd prefer to stay away from schools in NY or CA because of the immense cost of living in these areas.

 

[Typical Average Student]

Kentucky and I believe New England has certain residential preference to their surrounding states.
Boston and Temple also do not accept CC credit.
U Penn is sort of a stretch but it doesn't hurt to try.... it'll only hurt your wallet.
I would recommend adding NYU.

 

[Frank22]

Kentucky and I believe New England has certain residential preference to their surrounding states.
Boston and Temple also do not accept CC credit.
U Penn is sort of a stretch but it doesn't hurt to try.... it'll only hurt your wallet.
I would recommend adding NYU.

Does U. Penn cost more than other schools to apply to? Their A.A. and T.S. averages are 21, which is 2 and 3 points lower than what I scored, respectively. On the other hand, their average GPA is 0.2 points higher than what I will have, but perhaps they will consider a strong upward trend if I apply early? I will contact Boston and Temple concerning CC credits, and may cross of Kentucky and New England off my list.

 

[ahcten]

Does U. Penn cost more than other schools to apply to? Their A.A. and T.S. averages are 21, which is 2 and 3 points lower than what I scored, respectively. On the other hand, their average GPA is 0.2 points higher than what I will have, but perhaps they will consider a strong upward trend if I apply early? I will contact Boston and Temple concerning CC credits, and may cross of Kentucky and New England off my list.

Temple should be fine. I have CC credits, applied without checking their requirement first and still have an interview there.

 

[ajj70]

By "Western" I was referring to the school in downtown Pomona, California, although I now have doubts about applying there given the ridiculous cost of living in California; I'd strongly prefer to live alone in Dental School.



I'm from Michigan and I will not be applying in-state, which is why neither UDM or UoM were on my list. I'm interested in LECOM, but I'd prefer to stay away from schools in NY or CA because of the immense cost of living in these areas.

WHY would you not apply in-state. You will save yourself $100,000+ if you can attend an in-state school. That is just short sighted thinking.

 

[Frank22]

WHY would you not apply in-state. You will save yourself $100,000+ if you can attend an in-state school. That is just short sighted thinking.

Unfortunately, I was not blessed with as supportive a family as some of the other members on here, to say the least. That's as far as I will delve into the matter; however, I am applying for the HPSP scholarship, so cost will hopefully not be much of an issue.

UPenn is around $450K before interest sets in. It's ridiculously expensive.

lol not much more expensive than many other dental school these days. But as I said, I'm applying for the HPSP scholarship, so tuition won't be an issue if I'm accepted (I've read that it's not difficult to get accepted for the scholarship with a DAT A.A. of 22 or higher).

 

[DetermineDent]

Does U. Penn cost more than other schools to apply to? Their A.A. and T.S. averages are 21, which is 2 and 3 points lower than what I scored, respectively. On the other hand, their average GPA is 0.2 points higher than what I will have, but perhaps they will consider a strong upward trend if I apply early? I will contact Boston and Temple concerning CC credits, and may cross of Kentucky and New England off my list.

I'm not from kentucky or New England (or neighboring states), I recieved interviews there. I'll let you know if I get in on Dec1st if you want.

 

[Frank22]

I'm not from kentucky or New England (or neighboring states), I recieved interviews there. I'll let you know if I get in on Dec1st if you want.

Please do; it would be much appreciated .

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

/

 

[Frank22]

Also University of New England is a private school and has no residency preference, so I'd keep them on the list. If you don't want to apply to schools in-state (I don't know why not but you said that's a separate issue and I don't know any thing about it so the choice is yours), I would mostly stick with other private schools to increase your chances of acceptance. I can tell you I regret applying to 13 schools because it was too many, and I spent too much. Attached is DocToothache's list of out of state percentage of interviewed and accepted applicants, which can help you decide which OOS public schools to cross off your list.

Good luck!

Thanks man; I'm really desperate to get out of the state at this point (family problems), which is why I don't mind applying to so many schools. I will just have to deal with the loans later.

 

[hellofuturedentists]

Since you asked for my 2cents...
If you want to narrow down more, I'd start crossing off based on location. For me, at least, there are certain regions of the country that I can't really see myself living in, like the west or southwest. Also cross off anywhere you just would not go to, either due to price or you don't like their program, etc. Invest in the ADEA guide ($15 online) and/or go look at Doc Toothache's guide that's pinned to the front of the pre-dental forum. I totally understand wanting to move OOS (even if everyone else thinks we're crazy!), so don't worry haha. Also maybe look into NYU. It looks like they interview a lot of people and have the biggest class size which means they offer the most acceptances.
Finally, see if some schools emphasize something that you think stands out on your application. For example, if you had a ton of community service, some schools emphasize that in their mission and you should consider applying there.
That might be more like my 1 cent, but I hope it helped

 

[ajj70]

Unfortunately, I was not blessed with as supportive a family as some of the other members on here, to say the least. That's as far as I will delve into the matter; however, I am applying for the HPSP scholarship, so cost will hopefully not be much of an issue.



lol not much more expensive than many other dental school these days. But as I said, I'm applying for the HPSP scholarship, so tuition won't be an issue if I'm accepted (I've read that it's not difficult to get accepted for the scholarship with a DAT A.A. of 22 or higher).

You do realize that these scholarships are very limited, right?

Thanks man; I'm really desperate to get out of the state at this point (family problems), which is why I don't mind applying to so many schools. I will just have to deal with the loans later.

Your family problems will still be there no matter where you go. You don't have to live with your family, and just don't give them your new address and change your phone number. Paying 200K more for school is just foolish.

 

[Frank22]

You do realize that these scholarships are very limited, right?

I was told that the Army is "desperate" for people at this time? Whatever the case, I will just have to contact a recruit early on and hope for the best.

Your family problems will still be there no matter where you go. You don't have to live with your family, and just don't give them your new address and change your phone number. Paying 200K more for school is just foolish.

I appreciate your concern , but on this point I am unwilling to change my mind. I don't think you could really appreciate my situation from the phrase "family problems" alone; the problem has extended far beyond familial issues and has made it seemingly impossible for me to live a normal life in this state now. The only thing that has given me the strength to continue working toward my dreams these last few years is the thought that I will be able to leave the state in a couple of years and never have to deal with these problems again.

 

[ajj70]

I was told that the Army is "desperate" for people at this time? Whatever the case, I will just have to contact a recruit early on and hope for the best.



I appreciate your concern , but on this point I am unwilling to change my mind. I don't think you could really appreciate my situation from the phrase "family problems" alone; the problem has extended far beyond familial concerns and has made it seemingly impossible to live a normal life in this State now. The only thing that has given me the strength to continue working toward my dreams these last few years is the thought that I will be able to leave the state in a couple of years and never have to deal with these problems again.

I would just make sure to apply to schools that give in-state after a year or when the time comes to repay your loans, you will be very sorry....

The army is desperate for people to fight, not so much for professionals. If you look at the boards for these scholarships, there are something like 20 or 30 to go around. You should still apply, but just don't count on the funds coming your way.

 

[jackierific]

I only applied to 7 schools, but two of my friends applied to 15+ schools and told me they wish they would have narrowed their list down more before applying. Your stats are good, so I would now focus more on where you think you could legitimately live for 4 years. Is a big city or a smaller town more your speed? You're about to move somewhere for 4 years, so I think its really important to look at the city the school is in too. Also, I would just go through your list and look at the percentage of out of state students state schools take. UNLV for example takes about 45% from OOS, while other state schools only take 5-10%. So just ask yourself if a school that only gives you a 5-10% chance is worth the application fee.

 

[Frank22]

Another question: if a person moves out of his or her home state, and becomes a resident of a state he or she was accepted into for dental school, does he or she still have to pay nonresidential tuition after becoming a resident of his or her new state?

 

[Frank22]

I only applied to 7 schools, but two of my friends applied to 15+ schools and told me they wish they would have narrowed their list down more before applying. Your stats are good, so I would now focus more on where you think you could legitimately live for 4 years. Is a big city or a smaller town more your speed? You're about to move somewhere for 4 years, so I think its really important to look at the city the school is in too. Also, I would just go through your list and look at the percentage of out of state students state schools take. UNLV for example takes about 45% from OOS, while other state schools only take 5-10%. So just ask yourself if a school that only gives you a 5-10% chance is worth the application fee.

I chose the schools that I did because they had a high percentage of OOS students accepted compared to other schools. I wouldn't mind living in a big city or a small town, and apparently there are studios in NYC that hover around $1,000 a month, so I may choose to apply to NYU after all. Thank you for your advice!

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[jackierific]

It depends on which state school. UConn lets you reclassify and pay in-state tuition for your last three years, for example. All you have to do is register to vote, update your driver's license, show them a utility bill, etc. I don't know about other state schools but I'm sure you can find the information somewhere.

UNLV allows you to do this as well

 

[ajj70]

Another question: if a person moves out of his or her home state, and becomes a resident of a state he or she was accepted into for dental school, does he or she still have to pay nonresidential tuition after becoming a resident of his or her new state?

Depends on the state and the reason for the move. Most states do not let you pay in-state if you moved there to go to school. If your parents moved there for work and you were going there for school you can usually get instate, but some states do give instate after a year if you register your car there, get a drivers license there, don't leave the state for more than 15 days, etc.

Also there is more than one dental school in your home state that you should consider....

 

[Frank22]

Depends on the state and the reason for the move. Most states do not let you pay in-state if you moved there to go to school. If your parents moved there for work and you were going there for school you can usually get instate, but some states do give instate after a year if you register your car there, get a drivers license there, don't leave the state for more than 15 days, etc.

Also there is more than one dental school in your home state that you should consider....

U of M is about 180 miles away from where I live, which is about as far away as Ohio anyway, so it might be worth applying there; 4-year total expenses for residents is $283,669, so it might be a good backup if I don't get 4 year or 3 year HPSP and don't get into a school that doesn't cost $400,000+ to attend.

 

[HUNKDENTIST]

I was in the same boat as you an did some pre-reqs at a CC. I didn't apply to Boston, Tufts, or Pitt because they don't take CC credits.

According to their website, Pitt will accept up to 1/3 of classes from CC both General and Required.

 

[Domenick12]

According to their website, Pitt will accept up to 1/3 of classes from CC both General and Required.

Right and I took 2 years' worth of classes at a CC, so it was more than 1/3 and I didn't want to risk spending the money to apply there and not even be considered for an interview.

 

[darknightzzz]

I would just make sure to apply to schools that give in-state after a year or when the time comes to repay your loans, you will be very sorry....

The army is desperate for people to fight, not so much for professionals. If you look at the boards for these scholarships, there are something like 20 or 30 to go around. You should still apply, but just don't count on the funds coming your way.

what branch is your number of 20-30 spots for? the navy branch offers more than that per year 40-50 4 year 20-30 3 year and the army 60-70 spots 4 year 40-50 spots 3 year. and many dont apply because they get disqualified during physical examination.

 

[odpropofol]

@
rxdmx372
How does a school have acceptance rate of 107%?

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[Frank22]

Alright guys so it looks like I won't be able to apply to all these schools because of the cost, I'm thinking of lowering my list to the following:

1. Midwestern AZ
2. Midwestern IL
3. Roseman
4. LECOM
5. Louisville
6. Maryland
7. Tufts
8. U. of Michigan
9. New England
10. Marquette
11. UNLV
12. NOVA
13. Tennessee

I'm concerned because 13 schools doesn't seem like it's enough for my stats :/

 

[sjk20]

Alright guys so it looks like I won't be able to apply to all these schools because of the cost, I'm thinking of lowering my list to the following:

1. Midwestern AZ
2. Midwestern IL
3. Roseman
4. LECOM
5. Louisville
6. Maryland
7. Tufts
8. U. of Michigan
9. New England
10. Marquette
11. UNLV
12. NOVA
13. Tennessee

I'm concerned because 13 schools doesn't seem like it's enough for my stats :/

I think you've been on SDN too long if you think 13 isn't enough for someone with a 23 AA DAT & applying early in the cycle. Plus, with your upward trend and an overall sGPA of 3.4....I do not think your stats will be an issue AT ALL. Make sure you have a good personal statement because the rest of your app seems solid.

I know I am only a pre-dental student as well but I rely more on my friends and others who are current dental students for all my info. I've gone to one too many dental tours and spoken with a lot of dental students who can almost all agree that pre-dents on SDN can be (for the most part) completely misinformed about reality. I might get some hate for saying that, but I'm sure many can agree that SDN isn't exactly representative. You mostly see the best and the worst stories but never the stories of the majority who actually get in.

 

[Frank22]

I think you've been on SDN too long if you think 13 isn't enough for someone with a 23 AA DAT & applying early in the cycle. Plus, with your upward trend and an overall sGPA of 3.4....I do not think your stats will be an issue AT ALL. Make sure you have a good personal statement because the rest of your app seems solid.

I know I am only a pre-dental student as well but I rely more on my friends and others who are current dental students for all my info. I've gone to one too many dental tours and spoken with a lot of dental students who can almost all agree that pre-dents on SDN can be (for the most part) completely misinformed about reality. I might get some hate for saying that, but I'm sure many can agree that SDN isn't exactly representative. You mostly see the best and the worst stories but never the stories of the majority who actually get in.

Inshallah; thanks. I will pray..

 

[Incis0r]

Frank, first things first- consider what people say, but don't make your entire decision based on what an anonymous online group of people think. Trust, but verify.

But I wish you good luck in getting the scholarship! It would be the dream to get all of school paid for, wouldn't it? I'm hoping for the same.

What branch(es) are you applying for?

many dont apply because they get disqualified during physical examination.

THIS.

To get into the military, you need to be 1. not disabled 2. physically fit/at a normal weight 3. have no serious illnesses. Asthma is an instant-disqualifier. Having a BMI over 25 is not acceptable (that's what their height-weight charts are based off of). It goes on and on like this.

Dark posted previously about how he got disqualified for eyesight and then had to go through the waivering process.

It takes a lot of effort to apply for the HPSP.

So when you consider the fact that 2/3 of Americans are OVERWEIGHT, it tremendously narrows down the applicant pool.

THEN, out of the people who are physically qualified, you need to have them actually be interested in the military. Giving salutes to commanding officers. Sacrificing personal autonomy- going wherever ordered. Doing whatever you're told. Physical fitness tests every year. I read somewhere they make you do random urine tests in the morning. Doing all the military stuff.

And lets not forget that you can make more money on the outside + the freedom to live life as you want...I know some corporates that are starting new grads at 130K (dental student friends who told me). Compare that to the 80K you'll make in the military.
After considering these factors, most of the remaining people bow out.

THEN, once the overweight people and the people who don't want to conform to military culture are gone, comes the application cycle...
Here, you need good grades, good DAT, great recommendations, good personal statement, a clean background check (or waiverable offenses).

The # of scholarships may seem small, but it's also a small number of people who are actually 1) passing the physical requirements 2) willing to submit to military law/regulations/customs and 3) have a competitive enough GPA to snag a scholarship.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[Incis0r]

I would re-think the physical fitness part. Sadly, obesity is a largely socioeconomic issue in this country. While 2/3 of Americans are overweight, far less than 2/3 of 21 or 22 year olds who have (not all, but most) come from a middle to upper class background and have made it to the point of applying to dental school. 21 to 22 year olds who come from households with high incomes and supportive, educated parents are the least likely to be overweight and the most likely to apply to dental school.

I suppose you do have a point. I'm just seeing too many....heavy....people around my campus nowadays....several of them pre-health. So I extrapolated. But you're right. According to this study (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1955391/), 3 in 10 American college students are overweight or obese.

Still, 3 in 10 is a lot. I would rather have that number be 0.

 

[Scumbag_Steve]

.

 

[Incis0r]

AF.

Good luck!