Which perspectives are welcome here?

[WisNeuro]

Because that is next weekend. Didn't you get the memo? We sent one out with the morning email about donuts.

They better be cider donuts...

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[deleted106747]

Y'all were busy over the weekend. It's fall, why aren't you out picking apples or carving pumpkins?

Why pick apples when you can argue gender politics on a message board?

 

[cara susanna]

Man, this thread was going so well.

Also, I don't really like that the idea of respecting others and social justice have become labelled as political issues. I say this as a former conservative (you can view my old posts for proof if you don't believe me).

 

[deleted480308]

Man, this thread was going so well.

Also, I don't really like that the idea of respecting others and social justice have become labelled as political issues. I say this as a former conservative (you can view my old posts for proof if you don't believe me).

“Social justice” means a lot of things to a lot of people, and for many who actually insist on using the phrase a lot it’s a pretty political thing

 

[WisNeuro]

Why pick apples when you can argue gender politics on a message board?

I'd rather argue gender politics while eating a Honeycrisp.

 

[WisNeuro]

Man, this thread was going so well.

Also, I don't really like that the idea of respecting others and social justice have become labelled as political issues. I say this as a former conservative (you can view my old posts for proof if you don't believe me).

Respecting others should be generally neutral, though definitions of respect vary quite a bit. But, social justice has always been a political issue.

 

[deleted106747]

I'd rather argue gender politics while eating a Honeycrisp.

I see you and raise you to apple crisp.

 

[WisNeuro]

I see you and raise you to apple crisp.

If the apple crisp is made with Honeycrisp apples, you're on. I'll make the mulled cider.

 

[deleted106747]

If the apple crisp is made with Honeycrisp apples, you're on. I'll make the mulled cider.

Sounds good to me. Everyone is invited, and we can all try to figure out who is what user on this board. Those who already know have to keep their mouth shut other than to eat the delicious honeycrisp apple crisp & donuts, and to drink the mulled cider.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

“Social justice” means a lot of things to a lot of people, and for many who actually insist on using the phrase a lot it’s a pretty political thing

Agreed. I've seen the term 'social justice' employed (not necessarily on this board or in this thread, but in other contexts) as a means of 'begging the question' in a social conflict/disagreement context. Essentially where the person using the term is arguing that they should get their way (because that outcome would represent 'social justice' in operation). In their view, 'justice' = 'me getting what I want.' Unsurprisingly, the person who is in disagreement with them may disagree on what 'justice' actually means in that context.

 

[foreverbull]

Agreed. I've seen the term 'social justice' employed (not necessarily on this board or in this thread, but in other contexts) as a means of 'begging the question' in a social conflict/disagreement context. Essentially where the person using the term is arguing that they should get their way (because that outcome would represent 'social justice' in operation). In their view, 'justice' = 'me getting what I want.' Unsurprisingly, the person who is in disagreement with them may disagree on what 'justice' actually means in that context.

I've also seen situations in which people have dismissed valid concerns by labeling the people bringing up the concerns as "social justice warriors" or even "liberal left" or even "radical left" as a quick way to try to invalidate people (the terms seem to be intended to be derogatory by the people using them, although I can't say for certain) and leaving it at that instead of engaging in any real discussion or having any openness to dialogue. I've seen these quips after lengthy, respectful/thoughtful posts (in multiple forums, not necessarily here). So if we want to talk extremes, there's also the opposite extreme position, which is that racism, sexism, classism, etc. do not exist in today's world, "social justice" is just about people whining to get their way, etc.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I've also seen situations in which people have dismissed valid concerns by labeling the people bringing up the concerns as "social justice warriors" or even "liberal left" or even "radical left" as a quick way to try to invalidate people (the terms seem to be intended to be derogatory by the people using them, although I can't say for certain) and leaving it at that instead of engaging in any real discussion or having any openness to dialogue. I've seen these quips after lengthy, respectful/thoughtful posts (in multiple forums, not necessarily here). So if we want to talk extremes, there's also the opposite extreme position, which is that racism, sexism, classism, etc. do not exist in today's world, "social justice" is just about people whining to get their way, etc.

Agreed.

 

[BuckeyeLove]

Question posed in good faith: do you see these subjects as irrelevant? Or did it have more to do with a perhaps unskillful execution of the discussion?

I do see this as another data point that stimulus value, power, and privilege are not welcome subjects on this board. And that to me is a bummer. I went to grad school around the same time as you, and my impression was that it was not a one-off “horrible thing” but actually a critical, long-term aspect of our curriculum so we could be as effective as possible with our disadvantaged patients.

I apologize for my uber late response to this. I would like to think that my initial response was largely based out of some projections and displacements from some BS I’ve been dealing with at work, and not just blatant dismissal as it looked on its surface (as seems to be the pattern with most basic dudes whenever this stuff gets broached). Truthfully, I do believe that my training, which emphasized consistently examining one’s power and privilege in any therapeutic context, has yielded positive and longitudinal benefits. Most of my clinical work has been in either state mental hospitals or juvenile prisons, and I know for a fact having that training helped immensely in my work, even in forensic evaluative contexts. I think where a lot of it seemed to get lost on me and others was that there didn’t ever seem to be anything that one could say or do that appeared to be “enough” for those coming from power-down places or systemically oppressed positions. And believe me, I and my other white-male-cis-hetero-middle to upper middle class-able-bodied cohort members “leaned in” as much as possible, for 4 years no less (three of those years had specific diversity lab components). Again, this was from 2009-2013, so it was before the woke train really went into full effect. Overall, I found that as with most things in life, there were pros and cons with it, and often it just turned into people arguing with each other with little to no effective facilitation by the group leaders.