Which physics?

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Mayday

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I noticed a lot of people on another thread are saying that they took the calculus based one, but my advisor is encouraging me to take the algebra based one.

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The algebra based isn't the physics they want.
 
Actually, it is. Algebra-based physics will get you into most medical schools. There are a few that require calc-based, but plenty that do not.
 
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I noticed a lot of people on another thread are saying that they took the calculus based one, but my advisor is encouraging me to take the algebra based one.

As far as I know either one is fine. However the question you need to ask is "How's your calc-fu?" :D Seriously though if you've already taken calc 1 and did well and understood it I'd take the calc based physics.(Mostly because if you already understand the calc applying it to physics makes the physics make more sense than through algebra.) If you haven't had calc or didn't do well in it algebra version would be my pick. Of course that just my opinion.
 
As far as I know either one is fine. However the question you need to ask is "How's your calc-fu?" :D Seriously though if you've already taken calc 1 and did well and understood it I'd take the calc based physics.(Mostly because if you already understand the calc applying it to physics makes the physics make more sense than through algebra.) If you haven't had calc or didn't do well in it algebra version would be my pick. Of course that just my opinion.

I start pre-calc next quarter. If I took the algebra based one, I could go into it next fall. If I took the calc based one, I would have to wait till I transfer to my 4 year college to take it (Mainly because I don't want to take ochem, celular and molecular bio and physics all in the same quarter)
 
Depending on who your Professor is, I would have rather taken the Algebra based one, the calc based is annoying as piss...

Lots of homework, but again, it depends on your professor and/or TA. I'll be happy to be done with it though...
 
I would take calc-based physics only if your math skills are strong and if you like math. At my undergrad, physics majors took calc-based physics, and bio majors took algebra-based physics. I'm not sure which one chem majors took, but you only need algebra-based for the MCAT.
 
The algebra based isn't the physics they want.

Totally wrong. I took the algebra based one after getting a C+ in calculus and I got multiple interviews.
 
Totally wrong. I took the algebra based ... and I got multiple interviews.

I agree. Me too.

OP kid raises a good question.

I suppose you could obsess over the decision, maybe think to yourself, "If I take calc physics then adcoms will think I'm a bigger bad ass than the guy with my stats who didn't," etc., etc. That may be true. But I wouldn't take it unless you knew that you could pull the same grade that you would in algebra calc (what's better for your BCPM? An A in algebra physics or a B in calc physics?) without compromising grades in other classes.

Maybe its best to call the admissions departments of your target schools and ask their opinions. They may or may not give you a straight answer.
 
The algebra based isn't the physics they want.

Yes it is. Algebra-based physics is the traditional choice for premeds and other pre-health people. Calculus-based physics is for the engineers, physics people and chemistry people. If you're one of the latter, then yeah, take it. Otherwise, go for the algebra one. IMO, it might be better prep for the MCAT anyway since MCAT physics is all written based on the assumption that you took the algebra-based class.
 
Bagel, really? The MCAT is written based on the assumption that you took Alg-based physics?

I've been obsessing like crazy on whether or not to go calc based or alg based for physics. I came across some sort of graph that showed that physics majors, as a group, did far better on the MCAT than other majors, which made me think ~ okay ~ maybe being proficient in calc-based physics is a big bonus for the MCAT.

I know that this subject has been beaten to death in the past, but I've read zillions of old threads and I still haven't felt any peace about it. I would REALLY like to feel like I have found the right answer.

Specifically:

Which physics gives one an edge for the MCAT?
 
Bagel, really? The MCAT is written based on the assumption that you took Alg-based physics?

I've been obsessing like crazy on whether or not to go calc based or alg based for physics. I came across some sort of graph that showed that physics majors, as a group, did far better on the MCAT than other majors, which made me think ~ okay ~ maybe being proficient in calc-based physics is a big bonus for the MCAT.

I know that this subject has been beaten to death in the past, but I've read zillions of old threads and I still haven't felt any peace about it. I would REALLY like to feel like I have found the right answer.

Specifically:

Which physics gives one an edge for the MCAT?

Well my personal hunch is that physics majors do so well on the MCAT just because they're smart. It's just a major that attracts really smart people. :)

As for the MCAT, it's designed for people who've only had algebra-based physics, so imo algebra-based physics has to be enough. Personally, I felt really well-prepared for the physics on the MCAT from my year of algebra-based physics at Portland State. I learned everything I needed to know in that class. Overall, I think a calculus-based class might have left me less well-prepared because it would probably focus more on the math and less on basic theory. Of course, I didn't take the calculus based class, so I could be totally wrong. All I can say is that my algebra-based class was quite sufficient and of course a little easier than the calculus-based class would be. :)
 
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you only need algebra-based for the MCAT.

My boy's absolutely right about this.

So, maybe you can look at it this way: For the MCAT, you're best off taking algebra physics and using the surplus of time you gain in so doing to study the principles underlying oxygen dissociation curves and voltaic cells. (That's what I should have done.)
 
Is algebra-based physics trigonometry-based physics?
 
Overall, I think a calculus-based class might have left me less well-prepared because it would probably focus more on the math and less on basic theory. Of course, I didn't take the calculus based class, so I could be totally wrong. All I can say is that my algebra-based class was quite sufficient and of course a little easier than the calculus-based class would be. :)

I'm going to have to disagree with you on that speaking as someone who took the calc based version. Calc was a tool to understand the theory and as long as you already had the math (IE weren't learning it at the same time.) it was an extremely powerful tool. I mean when I was taking it we talked mostly theory but by understanding the calc you could see where all the formulas came from. (Actually in one class he tried to explain how those motion equations with constant acceleration came about. For those of us with calc it was a couple of simple derivatives. When he tried to use algebra it was basically an entire class to explain something us calc people understood in about 2 minutes. So with the right tool it was easy to understand, use the wrong one and you just give yourself a headache.) I mean really, physics is applied calc. If you don't have the calc you'll have no idea where half the equations come from. (IE the equation for energy in spring and gravitation potential energy are easily deduced from calc.)
 
The algebra based isn't the physics they want.

FALSE.

There is no advantage in taking Cal-based over Algebra-based physics. Take the easiest one, I assure you nobody will care about anything except the grade you get in it.
 
I don't understand how calculus based introductory physics is perceived to be harder then the algebra based physics. They both cover the same material, except the calculus based physics requires you to know how to do basic integration and differentiation (taught in calculus 1).
 
I don't understand how calculus based introductory physics is perceived to be harder then the algebra based physics. They both cover the same material, except the calculus based physics requires you to know how to do basic integration and differentiation (taught in calculus 1).

Algebra-based physics and calculus-based physics are the same in terms of difficulty for those who took algebra-based physics. And calculus-based physics is harder for those who took calculus-based physics :)
 
I don't understand how calculus based introductory physics is perceived to be harder then the algebra based physics. They both cover the same material, except the calculus based physics requires you to know how to do basic integration and differentiation (taught in calculus 1).

Yeah, you're probably right in theory. However, not everyone takes calculus because it's not a required course, and some of us took calculus 8 years before we took physics, so taking calculus basic physics would be a struggle. :eek: Also, I think at lots of schools, the bar is set a little higher for the calculus-based students since you're competing with the physics majors and the engineers. At my ugrad, the calculus-based physics class was considered to be super hard just because of how the professor structured it. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the same at lots of schools.
 
Algebra-based physics and calculus-based physics are the same in terms of difficulty for those who took algebra-based physics. And calculus-based physics is harder for those who took calculus-based physics :)

I did take calculus based physics (for engineering major) and it wasn't as hard as people make it out to be. It's not like your inventing anything, your just applying formulas to given situations. And in this case your integrating and differentiating functions (formulas) to get answers. The only "hard" part would be to set up integrals. I guess your right in saying that the calc-based physics is harder then algebra-based physics, but not by much. In the algebra based one your probably dealing with functions like sin and cos. In the calculus based one you would be dealing with the same thing but integrating or differentiating said functions. And again it's only basic int. & diff. that you use, since I doubt you really use int. by parts or solve 2nd order diff. eqns in physics I/II.
 
I've been debating this one for a long time, but my deciding factor was that the algebra-based physics labs are very short and only every other week :) Plus, for calc-based, I'd have to take a class that I already know the material from (Calc II) and don't have room in my schedule for.
Seriously, though, you might want to compare how difficult that labs are because I know I'd rather spend time on upper-level bio elective labs than physics labs. And isn't getting out of lab early one of the best feelings in the world? :D
 
I did take calculus based physics (for engineering major) and it wasn't as hard as people make it out to be. It's not like your inventing anything, your just applying formulas to given situations. And in this case your integrating and differentiating functions (formulas) to get answers. The only "hard" part would be to set up integrals. I guess your right in saying that the calc-based physics is harder then algebra-based physics, but not by much. In the algebra based one your probably dealing with functions like sin and cos. In the calculus based one you would be dealing with the same thing but integrating or differentiating said functions. And again it's only basic int. & diff. that you use, since I doubt you really use int. by parts or solve 2nd order diff. eqns in physics I/II.

Actually in some "calc based physics" they really do want you to "invent formulas". Ok, this is personally experience but when I was a student at BU in the old days (and even now btw) they had 4 levels of physics I. From what I understand it was algebra physics, calc physics for med students, calc physics for engineers, and calc physics for physicists and astronomers. I unfortunately took the last one (IE hardest) and basically tests consisted of us students generating the formulas for various situations.(I mean literally they'd give distances of "R", mass of "M1 and M2" etc and you'd come up with an equation like they do in the books.) So that "Calc physics" was almost certainly much harder than the algebra physics. (But the point was to train physicists so that's why it was what it was.) I'm not trying to scare anyone off the calc version.(Since I took that at UMass which only offered calc and algebra versions and it wasn't anything as bad as the BU course.)

I'm still sticking to my original point of view though, if your calc skills are good and it's a standard physics course (IE not the "For physicists physics I") then you'd probably find calc physics to be a bit easier.(Since they use an additional tool to understand things.)
 
Yeah I just took a guess for the sake of having the first post. I might take calc based physics.
 
I noticed a lot of people on another thread are saying that they took the calculus based one, but my advisor is encouraging me to take the algebra based one.

It does no matter which one you take. Take the one that is easier.
For all the neuroticizing we do, admissions committees don't pay too much attention to the difficulty of our courseloads.
 
Actually in some "calc based physics" they really do want you to "invent formulas". Ok, this is personally experience but when I was a student at BU in the old days (and even now btw) they had 4 levels of physics I. From what I understand it was algebra physics, calc physics for med students, calc physics for engineers, and calc physics for physicists and astronomers. I unfortunately took the last one (IE hardest) and basically tests consisted of us students generating the formulas for various situations.(I mean literally they'd give distances of "R", mass of "M1 and M2" etc and you'd come up with an equation like they do in the books.) So that "Calc physics" was almost certainly much harder than the algebra physics. (But the point was to train physicists so that's why it was what it was.) I'm not trying to scare anyone off the calc version.(Since I took that at UMass which only offered calc and algebra versions and it wasn't anything as bad as the BU course.)
)


Yeah, we sometimes have to "invent" formulas in my biomechanics course. But you usually can do it by applying previously learned concepts and knowledge of proportionality to figure it out. It's kinda hard but at least it gets you thinking. Like anything if you understand the concepts well, you should be able to apply them to any given situation (same thing with physics).
 
So let me try and sum up the discussion until now:

- Overall, med schools generally won't care which physics you took as long as you did well in it.

- Only take calc based if you have already taken calc and did well, and then make sure you're getting a good professor.

- Calc may actually be easier than alg if you know the calc.

I'll be taking the physics sequence over the summer (I mentioned this in a different thread, but people are already here, so I'm trying my luck), and I do know Calc pretty well. I'm wondering of the calc based will be a better option....
 
Yeah, we sometimes have to "invent" formulas in my biomechanics course. But you usually can do it by applying previously learned concepts and knowledge of proportionality to figure it out. It's kinda hard but at least it gets you thinking. Like anything if you understand the concepts well, you should be able to apply them to any given situation (same thing with physics).

Very true. However the problem I had at the time was my calc was lousy so I was trying to learn calc and physics at the same time which is a receipe for trouble.(I might have been ok if I hadn't taken the super hard physics.) What's worse is that BU had me take placement tests in math and physics. Wouldn't you know it, those tests basically said my calc was lacking and my physics was really good. So naturally the advisor they had at orientation(which I think was a physics professor.) basically told me that of course I should take that physics. (He kind of glossed over the fact I didn't have the tools to do well in the course. This was my first experience of an advisor having no idea what the hell he was talking about.) Of course when I took physics more recently I made sure my calc was good:)
 
So let me try and sum up the discussion until now:

- Overall, med schools generally won't care which physics you took as long as you did well in it.

- Only take calc based if you have already taken calc and did well, and then make sure you're getting a good professor.

- Calc may actually be easier than alg if you know the calc.

I'll be taking the physics sequence over the summer (I mentioned this in a different thread, but people are already here, so I'm trying my luck), and I do know Calc pretty well. I'm wondering of the calc based will be a better option....

I'd probably try to get some inside info about the two classes. At some schools like the one I went to, calculus based physics was really hard, but then we didn't have those 4 different levels like they had at Dave's school.

How much harder it is probably depends on whatever school you're going to.
 
I think after having read all of the replies that I will just wait to do physics until I move to my 4 year school, that way I will have some idea of how well I do in calculus. If I do really well and understand it all, I'll take the calculus based one. If I don't then I'll take the algebra based one. I'll just have to get some of the other things that I'll need for my undergrad degree out of the way (Like the visual, learning, and performing arts requirements)

Thanks for all the advice!
 
I offered my opinion on this in another thread... if it's worth two cents to you, feel free to read here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=4879938#post4879938

In short, I think it depends on your goal. I know there are plenty in this forum who view these classes simply as hurdles to jump over to get to med school, and I appreciate that perspective. If that is the only reason you're taking physics, then I say take the algebra-based one and get all formulas down cold; it is ALL you will need for the MCAT, and nothing more in the way of physics.

On the far off chance that you are interested in getting maximum educational value out of a physics class that serves all your MCAT needs, and MORE... I think calc-based physics is absolutely the way to go. I can't express this any more strongly without sounding terribly nerdy about it, so I'll stop here - but suffice it to say that I find the continuity between advanced math and science curriculum bridged by solid calc-based physics enlightening, and really friggin' :cool:

Good luck,

-MSTPbound
 
I offered my opinion on this in another thread... if it's worth two cents to you, feel free to read here:

I swear to god, I did an advanced search to try and find a similar thread and came up with nothing.

blush.gif
conf45.gif
 
I offered my opinion on this in another thread... if it's worth two cents to you, feel free to read here:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=4879938#post4879938

In short, I think it depends on your goal. I know there are plenty in this forum who view these classes simply as hurdles to jump over to get to med school, and I appreciate that perspective. If that is the only reason you're taking physics, then I say take the algebra-based one and get all formulas down cold; it is ALL you will need for the MCAT, and nothing more in the way of physics.

On the far off chance that you are interested in getting maximum educational value out of a physics class that serves all your MCAT needs, and MORE... I think calc-based physics is absolutely the way to go. I can't express this any more strongly without sounding terribly nerdy about it, so I'll stop here - but suffice it to say that I find the continuity between advanced math and science curriculum bridged by solid calc-based physics enlightening, and really friggin' :cool:

Good luck,

-MSTPbound

This is why I'm thinking of doing the calc, i memorize things much better when I can understand it, instead of just making it rote.
 
I would not have taken algebra based physics even if it meant that I would not become a doctor by taking calc based physics - understanding why and how Newton invented calculus to come up with "Newtonian physics" is so pure and fundemental that I can't imagine my life without it.

but- on the other hand maybe my life would be exactly the same?
but i think i really need to understand a derivative.
 
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