i know someone asked this before but i am too ******ed to use the search function. can someone tell me which schools give much love to the verbal section on the mcat?
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which schools love mcat verbal?
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i think all schools value the verbal score.
taking a look at average verbal scores on the us news world report will give you actual numbers to look at, so you can see for yourself if you like.
most good schools are looking for double digits as a general rule. well..anyways
taking a look at average verbal scores on the us news world report will give you actual numbers to look at, so you can see for yourself if you like.
most good schools are looking for double digits as a general rule. well..anyways
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Verbal is definitely important to all schools. It's the only section that can be used as a prediction for how a student will do on the USMLE. This alone would make it the most important section to any school.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by relatively prime:
•It's the only section that can be used as a prediction for how a student will do on the USMLE. •••••How so?
•It's the only section that can be used as a prediction for how a student will do on the USMLE. •••••How so?
i don't think ALL schools value the verbal section equally. obviously they look at it since it's one of three numbers that come with the MCAT score but i think it varies quite widely on who takes it more seriously than the science scores versus the other way around.
i have heard, also, that the science scores best correlate with the first two years of med school, while the verbal score best correlates with the latter two years.
i would think that the overall MCAT score would correlate with the USMLE but i haven't read anything official on that.
i have heard, also, that the science scores best correlate with the first two years of med school, while the verbal score best correlates with the latter two years.
i would think that the overall MCAT score would correlate with the USMLE but i haven't read anything official on that.
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I have to agree with the consensus here . . . the verbal section is (IMO) the hardest section on the exam and the only section which accumulation of knowledge will do nothing to help you.
That being said, you really need to get a 10 or above to be a competitive candidate.
That being said, you really need to get a 10 or above to be a competitive candidate.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by The Fly:
•I have to agree with the consensus here . . . the verbal section is (IMO) the hardest section on the exam and the only section which accumulation of knowledge will do nothing to help you.
That being said, you really need to get a 10 or above to be a competitive candidate.•••••i beg to differ with The Fly.
the verbal section is NOT the hardest section.
i think this is clearly a subjective and personal opinion. the stereotype is that most premeds are stronger in the sciences and therefore the verbal section is the "hardest" when really there are some of us who might be better at the verbal section for just the reason you give above- that it's just reading comprehension. no accumulation of knowledge needed.
i also disagree that a 10 is needed for a candidate to be "competitive." that's absolutely absurd and i think if there's one score that can be lower than the others, it's the verbal.
because even these schools that value the verbal section highly, won't overlook a low science score. so the bottomline is that the science scores really are more important, if you had to choose.
•I have to agree with the consensus here . . . the verbal section is (IMO) the hardest section on the exam and the only section which accumulation of knowledge will do nothing to help you.
That being said, you really need to get a 10 or above to be a competitive candidate.•••••i beg to differ with The Fly.
the verbal section is NOT the hardest section.
i think this is clearly a subjective and personal opinion. the stereotype is that most premeds are stronger in the sciences and therefore the verbal section is the "hardest" when really there are some of us who might be better at the verbal section for just the reason you give above- that it's just reading comprehension. no accumulation of knowledge needed.
i also disagree that a 10 is needed for a candidate to be "competitive." that's absolutely absurd and i think if there's one score that can be lower than the others, it's the verbal.
because even these schools that value the verbal section highly, won't overlook a low science score. so the bottomline is that the science scores really are more important, if you had to choose.
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by KDocGirl:
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by relatively prime:
•It's the only section that can be used as a prediction for how a student will do on the USMLE. •••••How so?•••••Sorry... I goofed... it's not the only section with a correlation... it's the section with the MOST correlation.
I got this from <a href="http://www.medicalschool.com..." target="_blank">www.medicalschool.com...</a>
"While interviewing at the University of Chicago, I was told that they gave this section the most weight because this section had the highest correlation to the Medical Board Exam (USLME Part I). "
🙂
• •••quote:•••Originally posted by relatively prime:
•It's the only section that can be used as a prediction for how a student will do on the USMLE. •••••How so?•••••Sorry... I goofed... it's not the only section with a correlation... it's the section with the MOST correlation.
I got this from <a href="http://www.medicalschool.com..." target="_blank">www.medicalschool.com...</a>
"While interviewing at the University of Chicago, I was told that they gave this section the most weight because this section had the highest correlation to the Medical Board Exam (USLME Part I). "
🙂
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by GrnLt:
•UCSD puts a lot of weight on the verbal score.•••••hmm...i have 2 good friends there now (applied last year) with 6 and 7 on the verbal section. they had 12-13's on the sciences though.
•UCSD puts a lot of weight on the verbal score.•••••hmm...i have 2 good friends there now (applied last year) with 6 and 7 on the verbal section. they had 12-13's on the sciences though.
I had a very low verbal score and got into 4 schools. It all depends on the rest of your application. There's not "magic verbal score".
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No, there isn't a "magic" score, but if you had to pick a reasonable score for people to achieve and be competitive in the applicant pool, it WOULD be 10, since the average total of matriculants is 29.5
The idea that verbal MCAT score correlating with how well someone will do on the USMLEs or in the initial or latter years of med school is completely bogus to me.
How is reading comprehension indicative of how well you interact with others?
For me, I did not do well on verbal MCAT initially (8), but then I did better later on (10). What does this indicate?
Basically, the MCAT is a STANDARDIZED test. Since it is the only thing that all pre-meds have to take, it does one of two things....
1) Since GPAs from different schools cannot be standardized against one another, the MCAT is the assessment tool that is used for a more equal comparison.
2) It acts to keep med school admissions competetive--it is a tool that med schools say can indicate performance, but how many people do you know who would be great doctors and don't do so well on it? How many people do you know who have done well on MCATs and you wonder what kind of doctor they will become??
To those who don't do so well on Verbal section, I really believe in just trying again. I think nerves play a huge role in MCAT performance, and it is hard to take the test again having not done so well previously, but realize that once you do get a good score or once you get into med school, the MCAT will never need to be brought up again!
🙂
How is reading comprehension indicative of how well you interact with others?
For me, I did not do well on verbal MCAT initially (8), but then I did better later on (10). What does this indicate?
Basically, the MCAT is a STANDARDIZED test. Since it is the only thing that all pre-meds have to take, it does one of two things....
1) Since GPAs from different schools cannot be standardized against one another, the MCAT is the assessment tool that is used for a more equal comparison.
2) It acts to keep med school admissions competetive--it is a tool that med schools say can indicate performance, but how many people do you know who would be great doctors and don't do so well on it? How many people do you know who have done well on MCATs and you wonder what kind of doctor they will become??
To those who don't do so well on Verbal section, I really believe in just trying again. I think nerves play a huge role in MCAT performance, and it is hard to take the test again having not done so well previously, but realize that once you do get a good score or once you get into med school, the MCAT will never need to be brought up again!
🙂
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encee: It doesn't matter if a correlation between MCAT verbal and USMLE 1 scores makes sence to YOU personally or not... numbers don't lie. There is a correlation.
The correlation actually makes sense to me... not that that means anything either. What really matters is the numbers...
My theory is... people who do when in verbal are usually either 1) very good at reading comprehensive or 2) very ambitious pre-meds who learned of the importance of verbal before they took the test and studied their a$$es off to make sure they did well... or after bombing it once they realized their mistaken of underestimating it and tried hard and took it again.
Case 1) students will do well because in medical school you're required to do a LOT of reading and the faster you can read and understand what you've read... the better you'll do. Case 2) students will do well on any test because they are always one step ahead and willing to work really hard... or they have the endurance to keep trying
Forget what the MCAT actually tests... the fact is that the most ambitious and most determined pre-med students do well (or at least ok) on the MCAT because they know it's important. It's like jumping through a flaming hoop... yeah it may have little to do with medicine, but it's one way for med schools to see how dedicated you are.
The correlation actually makes sense to me... not that that means anything either. What really matters is the numbers...
My theory is... people who do when in verbal are usually either 1) very good at reading comprehensive or 2) very ambitious pre-meds who learned of the importance of verbal before they took the test and studied their a$$es off to make sure they did well... or after bombing it once they realized their mistaken of underestimating it and tried hard and took it again.
Case 1) students will do well because in medical school you're required to do a LOT of reading and the faster you can read and understand what you've read... the better you'll do. Case 2) students will do well on any test because they are always one step ahead and willing to work really hard... or they have the endurance to keep trying
Forget what the MCAT actually tests... the fact is that the most ambitious and most determined pre-med students do well (or at least ok) on the MCAT because they know it's important. It's like jumping through a flaming hoop... yeah it may have little to do with medicine, but it's one way for med schools to see how dedicated you are.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by relatively prime:
•encee: It doesn't matter if a correlation between MCAT verbal and USMLE 1 scores makes sence to YOU personally or not... numbers don't lie. There is a correlation.
The correlation actually makes sense to me... not that that means anything either. What really matters is the numbers...
My theory is... people who do when in verbal are usually either 1) very good at reading comprehensive or 2) very ambitious pre-meds who learned of the importance of verbal before they took the test and studied their a$$es off to make sure they did well... or after bombing it once they realized their mistaken of underestimating it and tried hard and took it again.
Case 1) students will do well because in medical school you're required to do a LOT of reading and the faster you can read and understand what you've read... the better you'll do. Case 2) students will do well on any test because they are always one step ahead and willing to work really hard... or they have the endurance to keep trying
Forget what the MCAT actually tests... the fact is that the most ambitious and most determined pre-med students do well (or at least ok) on the MCAT because they know it's important. It's like jumping through a flaming hoop... yeah it may have little to do with medicine, but it's one way for med schools to see how dedicated you are.•••••Hey relatively prime,
When you say there IS a correlation, have you seen any statistics or research to show this, cuz I am interested to see them. I don't deny that motivation and effort play a big part in doing well on the MCATs as well as in medical school, but studying and performing well on the MCATs is different than studying and performing well for medical school exams.
With the MCATs there are people who study a lot and do not do well. There are those who barely study and get great scores.
With med school tests, time applied to studying and efficiency is key. I don't think being able to read quickly is a huge important factor (it certainly helps though), but learning how to sift through the volume of info to figure out what is important matters.
I don't disagree with you in that MCAT numbers are important--but I think it is for the fact that schools place such importance on them.
thanks for the feedback 🙂
•encee: It doesn't matter if a correlation between MCAT verbal and USMLE 1 scores makes sence to YOU personally or not... numbers don't lie. There is a correlation.
The correlation actually makes sense to me... not that that means anything either. What really matters is the numbers...
My theory is... people who do when in verbal are usually either 1) very good at reading comprehensive or 2) very ambitious pre-meds who learned of the importance of verbal before they took the test and studied their a$$es off to make sure they did well... or after bombing it once they realized their mistaken of underestimating it and tried hard and took it again.
Case 1) students will do well because in medical school you're required to do a LOT of reading and the faster you can read and understand what you've read... the better you'll do. Case 2) students will do well on any test because they are always one step ahead and willing to work really hard... or they have the endurance to keep trying
Forget what the MCAT actually tests... the fact is that the most ambitious and most determined pre-med students do well (or at least ok) on the MCAT because they know it's important. It's like jumping through a flaming hoop... yeah it may have little to do with medicine, but it's one way for med schools to see how dedicated you are.•••••Hey relatively prime,
When you say there IS a correlation, have you seen any statistics or research to show this, cuz I am interested to see them. I don't deny that motivation and effort play a big part in doing well on the MCATs as well as in medical school, but studying and performing well on the MCATs is different than studying and performing well for medical school exams.
With the MCATs there are people who study a lot and do not do well. There are those who barely study and get great scores.
With med school tests, time applied to studying and efficiency is key. I don't think being able to read quickly is a huge important factor (it certainly helps though), but learning how to sift through the volume of info to figure out what is important matters.
I don't disagree with you in that MCAT numbers are important--but I think it is for the fact that schools place such importance on them.
thanks for the feedback 🙂
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I think all schools like the MCAT verbal as much as they like the physical and biological science components. Having a balanced overall score is more important than having a strong score in one category and not in the other two. I know of some people who've obtained a strong overall MCAT (mid thirties) but very low verbal (6 or 7) and only gotten into one school. MAIN POINT: focus on a strong balanced score, not just simply acing the sciences. Some schools will actually screen people who have a subpar score (like less than 7 or 8) on any MCAT category before sending out secondaries.
•••quote:•••Originally posted by encee:
•When you say there IS a correlation, have you seen any statistics or research to show this, cuz I am interested to see them. •••••<a href="http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/koeni005.htm" target="_blank">The AAMC</a> has some statistics. There are also studies in Academic Medicine (Predicting medical students' academic performances by their cognitive abilities and personality characteristics. Shen H; Comrey AL
Neuropsychiatric Institute, University of California, Los Angeles, USA. Acad Med 1997 Sep;72(9):781-6)
<a href="http://www.kumc.edu/som/facaffairs/facretreat2001.html#predictors" target="_blank">The University of Kansas</a> has also done studies that show a correlation (r=0.84) between MCAT score and USMLE Step 1. <a href="http://mediswww.meds.cwru.edu/som/cme/minutes/121400.html" target="_blank">Here</a> is a statement from the Otago Medical School in New Zealand showing a strong correlation between the verbal MCAT score and grades during clerkships.
Search the internet and you will find lots of studies showing correlation between MCAT score, success during the first two years of medical school, and USMLE scores. There are also some statements (I found one from Case Western Reserve University) revealing a low correlation but these seem to be less prevalent.
Since the MCAT and USMLE are similar in the fact that they are timed, multiple choice tests, it only makes sense that there would be some correlation between them. I think of it similar to someone that plays soccer (or football for our foreign friends) well, would play basketball better than someone that plays soccer poorly. It is certainly not always the case, but in general it is probably true.
•When you say there IS a correlation, have you seen any statistics or research to show this, cuz I am interested to see them. •••••<a href="http://www.aamc.org/students/mcat/research/bibliography/koeni005.htm" target="_blank">The AAMC</a> has some statistics. There are also studies in Academic Medicine (Predicting medical students' academic performances by their cognitive abilities and personality characteristics. Shen H; Comrey AL
Neuropsychiatric Institute, University of California, Los Angeles, USA. Acad Med 1997 Sep;72(9):781-6)
<a href="http://www.kumc.edu/som/facaffairs/facretreat2001.html#predictors" target="_blank">The University of Kansas</a> has also done studies that show a correlation (r=0.84) between MCAT score and USMLE Step 1. <a href="http://mediswww.meds.cwru.edu/som/cme/minutes/121400.html" target="_blank">Here</a> is a statement from the Otago Medical School in New Zealand showing a strong correlation between the verbal MCAT score and grades during clerkships.
Search the internet and you will find lots of studies showing correlation between MCAT score, success during the first two years of medical school, and USMLE scores. There are also some statements (I found one from Case Western Reserve University) revealing a low correlation but these seem to be less prevalent.
Since the MCAT and USMLE are similar in the fact that they are timed, multiple choice tests, it only makes sense that there would be some correlation between them. I think of it similar to someone that plays soccer (or football for our foreign friends) well, would play basketball better than someone that plays soccer poorly. It is certainly not always the case, but in general it is probably true.
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encee: I understand your point. However, you (or anyone for that matter) shouldn't base your arguement on exceptions to the rule. There will ALWAYS be exceptions to any trend or general rule. Sure, there will be people who study a lot but still don't do well and there will be those who study very little and ace it... but these cases are RARE. They may seem common because we hear so much about them, but they are rare... and shouldn't be given a lot of consideration when accessing the validity of medical schools placing a lot of importance on the test.
Medical schools have to shift through THOUSANDS of applicants. I read in the book I bought that most med school admissions people read about 30-40 essays PER DAY! It's impossible for them to give each applicant a really fair and thought-out accessment. They need a way to cut down on those to be considered. Since ther eis a correlation between MCAT performance and USLME performance... it seems reasonable to use it as an initial cut off tool.
Anyway... at least we know Univeristy of Chicago places a lot of importance on MCAT verbal. 🙂
Medical schools have to shift through THOUSANDS of applicants. I read in the book I bought that most med school admissions people read about 30-40 essays PER DAY! It's impossible for them to give each applicant a really fair and thought-out accessment. They need a way to cut down on those to be considered. Since ther eis a correlation between MCAT performance and USLME performance... it seems reasonable to use it as an initial cut off tool.
Anyway... at least we know Univeristy of Chicago places a lot of importance on MCAT verbal. 🙂
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My Temple interviewer, who seemed like a pretty high ranked dude, told me that Temple looks mainly at the sciences and doesn't put as much wait on Verbal as other schools might. He said that although mine wasn't superb, it wouldn't hurt me because he could tell I was perfectly fluent, a good writer and good communicator. Of course I'm not sure if his thoughts hold true for the rest of the Temple admissions committee, but i just wanted to share that with you guys.
Well, I heard this from a director of admission of a reputable US med school: when facing the question of which section the school put the most weight, after prefacing his answer with the standard reply that the adcom loved all the sections the director said however if he had to get a low score out of the 3, it's best that it'd be Physical Science.
relatively prime:
Yeah, you are right--I should not maintain my opinion regarding people who tend to be more of the exceptions.
Undoubtedly, good scores are important--be it for med schools, for pre-meds, for med students, whomever.
I guess what I am trying to say is that for people who don't initially do well on MCATs, they just have to get up and keep on trying until it works out. And not to underestimate their future potential just cuz statistics show certain things. Statistics show a general trend, and hard work and persistence is what is needed for those who are not part of the trend.
thanks for the feedback.
Yeah, you are right--I should not maintain my opinion regarding people who tend to be more of the exceptions.
Undoubtedly, good scores are important--be it for med schools, for pre-meds, for med students, whomever.
I guess what I am trying to say is that for people who don't initially do well on MCATs, they just have to get up and keep on trying until it works out. And not to underestimate their future potential just cuz statistics show certain things. Statistics show a general trend, and hard work and persistence is what is needed for those who are not part of the trend.
thanks for the feedback.
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•••quote:•••Originally posted by encee:
•relatively prime:
Yeah, you are right--I should not maintain my opinion regarding people who tend to be more of the exceptions.
Undoubtedly, good scores are important--be it for med schools, for pre-meds, for med students, whomever.
I guess what I am trying to say is that for people who don't initially do well on MCATs, they just have to get up and keep on trying until it works out. And not to underestimate their future potential just cuz statistics show certain things. Statistics show a general trend, and hard work and persistence is what is needed for those who are not part of the trend.
thanks for the feedback.•••••Yeah... if only the admissions commitees were made up of like 200 people each and they could spend 3 days assessing each applicant... then maybe we wouldn't even need the MCAT 😀 😀 I know.. keep dreaming. 🙂
•relatively prime:
Yeah, you are right--I should not maintain my opinion regarding people who tend to be more of the exceptions.
Undoubtedly, good scores are important--be it for med schools, for pre-meds, for med students, whomever.
I guess what I am trying to say is that for people who don't initially do well on MCATs, they just have to get up and keep on trying until it works out. And not to underestimate their future potential just cuz statistics show certain things. Statistics show a general trend, and hard work and persistence is what is needed for those who are not part of the trend.
thanks for the feedback.•••••Yeah... if only the admissions commitees were made up of like 200 people each and they could spend 3 days assessing each applicant... then maybe we wouldn't even need the MCAT 😀 😀 I know.. keep dreaming. 🙂
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Hmm...interesting.
I wonder if the verbal correlation is caused by ceiling and floor effects on the other sections. The verbal section seems to have a lot more variance then the other sections.
I wonder if the verbal correlation is caused by ceiling and floor effects on the other sections. The verbal section seems to have a lot more variance then the other sections.
when i started this post, i did not intend to stir up the verbal/medschool success argument. i started this post because i have a low verbal score and am applying this cycle. therefore i want to avoid applying to school that value verbal more than the other two sections of the mcat. (since i feel i have a better chance at schools that value science more than verbal). but thank you for all the replies.
Just look at the usnews average MCAT scores. Some schools have much lower verbal averages than the other 2. Some schools don't.
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