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"white African American" getting in trouble?

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - MD' started by mclinkin94, May 1, 2012.

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What do you think would happen if I chose African American.

  1. Medical School Denial

    67 vote(s)
    55.8%
  2. Medical School Acceptance

    20 vote(s)
    16.7%
  3. Questioning and then disregard of race and possible acceptance

    42 vote(s)
    35.0%
Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. bigloley

    bigloley SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    Probably not the most "ethical" thing to do but I don't see that many adcoms having a problem with it (if they are not initially driven away because of your classification). Your numbers make you competitive with average students and by listing yourself as a URM might make you more attractive to schools. If you identify as African American that school can add you to its URM list and now boast it has 18% URM's in its class instead of 15%. It helps rather than hurts the school
     
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  3. Poetic Silence

    Poetic Silence Banned 2+ Year Member

    Including this thread, OP has posted the same question in various forms at least four times in a minimum of three different threads. The guy just won't quit. I've never seen a man so determined to be black since the release of 8 Mile.
     
  4. Thego2guy

    Thego2guy 5+ Year Member

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    I think you are the jealous one.

    Lol. You got your answer on literally three previous posts. Literally. Discrete, serious, simple, common sense, straight forward answers, from the cream of the crop here on SDN. Are you calling us stupid? Because when someone asks me something 4 times, I take it as an insult. I am not stupid. We heard you the first three times. We answered you the first three times. Going by this, and your hopeful, optimistic, aggressive, and blind attitude, I think that you are in denial. Some serious denial. Perhaps a little neurotic too. I wouldn't write this on one post, or two, (even though you made three within ONE hour, and then preached about morality), because I would find this post offensive. However, given your CLEAR and OBVIOUS condition, this post is fully appropriate and inoffensive. Think of it as a wake up call.

    Qualities of a true parasite, or simply, an immoral and unethical being. Wtf did you go through that people in Harlem go through? Did your great grandma get raped by her white masters?

    Not only are you clearly an unethical parasite (mods shouldn't disagree with this, since it is not an insult, but merely a fact), but you are a hypocritical troll (refer to when I said you made 3 previous posts before, and got replies from everyone who addressed your question directly).

    Oh dear...... oh dear, do you think I can get away with it? oh dear.. hmm.. hmm... how can I cheat the system. ****. I am trying so hard to justify this. ughhhh.. uhhhh.... uhhh.... I wonder if I can get away with it. Maybe if I rationally explain it my palms won't sweat so much.. uhhh....oh god oh god oh god..

    CAN WE PLEASE, get a psych physician on here to diagnose this guy. Did I say in-denial already? Dude, you think people are conspiring against you? Making stories up? In CASE they are NOT making stories up, you already have a bunch of reasons lined up for why their non-made-up story is not true already. Riiiiiiight. The world is out to get you. You are the last black person alive, so we are all jealous of your URM status. That must be it. :idea:


    To end this post constructively, anyone that goes through my previous posts will understand that I am always extremely supportive, kind, and courteous. I always wish people luck, and I wish them utmost success. I am doing the same for you. Sometimes you need to get slapped in the face to wake up into reality. I am saving your butt by preventing you from check marking off that idiotic little box. Then again, judging by your mental condition, maybe you should learn the hard way and loose a year.

    Do you really think adcoms take just any "black" person? "Oh hey, he is black. Decent grades. I'll take em over the white guy who has a .5 higher GPA than him". NO. This **** does not happen. The URMs that get acceptances actually get them for legitimate reasons (albeit under lower cut-offs). They are URMs because they are DISADVANTAGED. Their mom was kicked off the bus because she wasn't white. Their grandma never went to school and became a lunch lady because her mom was a slave. Their great grandma who was a slave got raped, beaten, and abused by the KKK. Now the current generation kid grew up in a disadvantaged socioeconomic setting, and had to go through utter **** to get a semi-decent education. I guarantee you that another "brotha" from the Upper East Side will not get the same treatment as the URM I just described. It DOES matter where you come from and what your roots are. That's why they conduct interviews, to understand your history, and learn how you overcame obstacles. Checking off URM does not open any doors what-so-ever. Even if you were black, but didn't endure the crap that other black people endured, I promise you, you would not get the same level of "advantage" as you think you would. How do we apply that to this case? Well in this case you would look like a total douche. Not only are you not black, but your family doesn't have a history of slaves either. If you do... that doesn't apply to the US government, because these are US med schools, and these "URM" things exist to amend the mistakes made by the US government. Not some African dictatorship that existed a hundred years ago. Draw your own conclusions. Oh wait.... you'll probably think this is a conspiracy and will try very hard to circumvent my fallacious logic. What's the point.
     
  5. Poetic Silence

    Poetic Silence Banned 2+ Year Member

    That is the funniest quote I've ever seen on SDN!
     
  6. Aerus

    Aerus Elemental Alchemist 5+ Year Member

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    I've particularly bolded the sentence I wanted to address, but this applies to the whole quote.

    The URM status isn't really to help disadvantaged applicants get in. It's more to create diversity within the medical field.

    Otherwise, URM would be one of the worst indicators of a "disadvantaged" background. They have your socioeconomic background already. Why not use that? There are tons and tons of disadvantaged whites and disadvantaged ORM's.

    The key word is diversity and apparently healthcare, though I disagree with the benefits that URM status actually brings.
     
  7. Thego2guy

    Thego2guy 5+ Year Member

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    I agree, however what I mentioned in that paragraph was in respect to an applicant who offers the same color to the class spectrum but went through hell and back, and comes from a crappy background. The "black egyptian" here is surely going to be considered less "URM" and more of just as some "minority". (if he gets that far). Rich kids with fat pockets are not underrepresented. Minorities are underrepresented, and so are poor people. So poor minorities (or not necessarily poor, but the ones who come from such backgrounds) pose the most affinity to med schools.

    What you said is true, but it is very superficial. "Diversity" carries much more than just that, and it can be broken down into many different things.
     
  8. Dires

    Dires Banned 5+ Year Member

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    Some of you have serious issues. Stop being judgemental pricks and answer his question...

    OP, if you identify yourself as AA then check the box. In saying this, I would be prepared to answer any skepticism during an interview if you aren't black. It could be interpreted by adcoms as trying to get an "unfair" advantage (even though technically you aren't lying).

    If I were you I would save my self from the potential awkwardness and just check white (it sounds like you look Caucasian/middle eastern). But again I don't know anything about you nor do I know what you look like...
     
  9. Morsetlis

    Morsetlis Preliminary Medicine 7+ Year Member

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    Baaaaaasically.
     
  10. Lilmissviolin

    Lilmissviolin

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    URM does not make up for a sub-par application. Instead of "working the system," boost that application. Smh......
     
  11. tantacles

    tantacles Lifetime Donor SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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  12. TheMightySmiter

    TheMightySmiter 7+ Year Member

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    Feel free to list yourself as African-American on your app and say that you're Egyptian, but don't expect a leg up if you're white. Regardless of what box you check, you are Caucasian and not a URM.
     
  13. TheMightySmiter

    TheMightySmiter 7+ Year Member

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    #1 I don't really believe, but if true that's pretty sweet. #2 probably had an awesome story or great ECs. #3 had a TON of research. #4 had a 4.0 and ridiculous ECs. So it's not like any of these people were candidates "unfit" for Harvard, they just had lower stats. All of them had something else awesome in their app to make up for it, besides being URM.
     
  14. Dr SunDai

    Dr SunDai 5+ Year Member

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    African American is not an ethnicity, it is used interchangeably with "Black" as can be seen in the US Census. The term "African American," as a categorical descriptor, includes many different segments of the American population referred to as "black" or Americans of sub-Saharan African ancestry. Essentially, African American is the PC way of saying black without consideration of a persons national origin or cultural background. For instance a person can respond that their race is African American, but their ethnicity is West Indian.

    Ethnicity is defined as: The fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition.

    The OP does not hail from sub-saharan Africa and has already stated previously that he identifies as caucasian and is simply looking for an edge. He wants to know if he'll "get in trouble" for identifying as African American.
     
  15. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Gold Donor SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    That doesn't make it right though. Wars have been fought for worse reasons than oil too. Everyone has to play cards the way that they so choose. If you want to bluff that you have something in your hand that you don't, you have to be prepared for the consequences of being called out on it. The fact of the matter is that there COULD be consequences for actions such as then. Only the OP can decide if he or she is willing to risk it for the possibility of a benefit.
     
  16. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Gold Donor SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    Right has a degree of relativity, but I must disagree with the rest of your post. The opinion that the system is broken is also subjective.
     
  17. SunsFun

    SunsFun VICE president 5+ Year Member

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    You're in a wrong thread. There is a place to discuss pros and cons of AA and this is not it.

    On a side note, I think I was reading some finding that people who are against AA and see it as unfair are more likely to perceive misrepresenting status as not a serious or a bad thing.
     
  18. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Gold Donor SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    Indeed, yet you phrased it as fact.
     
  19. Chemdude

    Chemdude 7+ Year Member

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    OP, maybe if you sat outside for a really long time you would become dark enough to pass as black...
     
  20. Jamie561

    Jamie561 5+ Year Member

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    I think OP should start another thread on this topic. We will surely come to a unanimous answer if given another chance.

    Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710e using Tapatalk
     
  21. tantacles

    tantacles Lifetime Donor SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    qf funny t
     
  22. Shakespeare37

    Shakespeare37 WINNING 2+ Year Member

    OP- Personal experience. N=1. Egyptian friend marked "African-American" box. Got interviews. Some interviewers were surprised. He explained that the box says "African American, and Egypt is in Africa". Literally. He got in. If AMCAS has a problem with it, they need to redefine the categories.
     
  23. mmmcdowe

    mmmcdowe Duke of minimal vowels Gold Donor SDN Moderator 7+ Year Member

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    People are really taking this too literally. It's like assuming that people who are Roman Catholic are actually in any way Roman. Africa descent + American =/= necessarily African-American in terms of the context it is being used. This is all very similar to the guy at Case Western Med who got booted over his use of African American because he was from South Africa and was Caucasian. If the above poster's friend got into schools after such a stunt, I'm confident it wasn't because of the "URM advantage".
     
  24. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    I have selected that I am African American. End of story. Egypt is in Africa, I am African. No need for further debate.
     
  25. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    Agreed: they are Vultures :smuggrin:!

    Yes I do identify as AA.
     
  26. TheMightySmiter

    TheMightySmiter 7+ Year Member

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    No you don't, you said in your original thread that you are a Caucasian male. Have you suddenly had an identity crisis?
     
  27. SunsFun

    SunsFun VICE president 5+ Year Member

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    Good for you, OP. Seriously though, the problem with what you're doing is that you're trying to game the system to gain an advantage that was not meant for people like you. Think about it, if there was a boost for white applicants only, what ethnicity would you check?

    Lastly, there are many middle-easterners applying to med schools. Many of them are Egyptians. Most of them check "white" just as they do on census. Admission committee is not stupid and can compare your application to others from the same region. Think about what the committee member will think when looking at two applications from Egyptians: one white and one self-described "black". If I was in the shoes of that person I would definitely see their self-identification as a possible red flag and would question their integrity and motives.
     
  28. Ashley1989

    Ashley1989 2+ Year Member

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    Hello, cold
    Your first post you said you were a Caucasian male. That's not AA
     
  29. Poetic Silence

    Poetic Silence Banned 2+ Year Member

    This entire thread had me rolling on the floor laughing the whole time.

    Good show, Pharaoh.
     
  30. Neurosis

    Neurosis 2+ Year Member

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    :thumbup:
     
  31. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    NEWS FOR EVERYONE:

    I EMAILED AMCAS AND THEY TOLD ME THAT IT IS OKAY AND THAT RACE IS SELF DETERMINED.

    END OF STORY.

    Letter:

    Race is self determined.


    Thank you,
    Toni Silas
    AAMC

    ref:_00DU0IXuy._500U03aIeV:ref
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  32. Frazier

    Frazier Emergentologist Lifetime Donor 7+ Year Member

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    This is fine. If you look black, then you can be black. If you look like the generic egyptian, then you are not black. They will see your picture on secondaries and your actual face during interviews. You will not pass GO with the URM-card for merely being "from africa" - they want black. If you do pass Go, it will be for other reasons (like your stats).

    BLACK
    [​IMG]

    BLACK
    [​IMG]

    BLACK
    [​IMG]

    BLACK
    [​IMG]

    Egyptian
    [​IMG]

    Egyptian
    [​IMG]

    Egyptian
    [​IMG]

    One group will "look like their patients in underserved compton", the other one won't.

    All that being said, I think egyptians look more hispanic than black... Since you're into fudging around with technicalities, why not see if you can link your great great X relative to some hispanic bloodlines. That one might be easier to pull off visually.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  33. jf1987

    jf1987 c/o 2016

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    What if you are an ORM on the outside but deeply feel URM on the inside?
     
  34. Ventric

    Ventric 7+ Year Member

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    Race is pre-determined.... that's a good point that doesn't prove your point.
     
  35. 1289

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  36. Myro

    Myro Banned

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    This dude has dark skin but facial features of...I can't put my finger on it. Definitely half something!

    But anyways, let the OP put what he wants guys, it doesn't hurt you in any way.
     
  37. HipChick

    HipChick

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    He looks like my cousin who is "blasian".
     
  38. Neurosis

    Neurosis 2+ Year Member

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    ...You do realize that Africa is probably the most diverse continent in terms of physical appearance. There isn't really anything like "black features", considering that blacks can have small noses or be really short (pygmies), the dark skin isn't even really a "black feature" (explain dark skinned natives or Indians?) So no, he's not definitely half something...
    That said, west africans (from which most african-americans are descendant from) typically tend to have broad faces, and are taller.
     
    Last edited: May 2, 2012
  39. 411309

    411309 zzzz

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    Screw that op, if you're african american so am I. My dad is super tan, I could at least say im native american. I mean I was born in america so I am native to it. Seriously though why do they even bother using the words african american? Why not just say black? Being black doesnt make it where you born in africa. It would clear up posts like this, lol. Med schools want you if you're black not "white Egyptian". Theres no little box to check for white egyptian because med schools don't give a ****.
     
  40. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    It said Race is SELF determined. :laugh:
     
  41. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    You do not exhibit any native american ancestry-not even a little. At least I exhibit African Ancestry! My ancestors were nubians. :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
     
  42. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    Thanks for wrapping things up bro. :thumbup:
     
  43. Stumpyman

    Stumpyman 5+ Year Member

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    Then in that case, every white person can check "native american" from now on.
     
  44. FattySlug

    FattySlug 5+ Year Member

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    This is another thing I love about SDN. Free entertainment.
     
  45. Thego2guy

    Thego2guy 5+ Year Member

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    :laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:


    :rolleyes:

    :love:

    :laugh:

    :rolleyes:

    Only if it will make up for my 3.4 GPA ;)

    This thread is beyond words. Full of lulz. The quotes speak for themselves ^
     
  46. TheMightySmiter

    TheMightySmiter 7+ Year Member

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    Um, the race you check on AMCAS is self-determined. Your actual race isn't.

    OP, your problem is that you seem to believe that simply by checking the Black/African-American box, you will magically get admitted to med school when you wouldn't otherwise. What I'm trying to tell you is that it doesn't matter what box you check. Best case scenario I see, your interviewers will see that you're white and say, "Well you may be African-American technically, but you aren't black so you're not getting any URM advantage." Worst case scenario, someone will take offense to the fact that you tried to portray yourself as someone you're not to get an undeserved advantage and you'll get rejected without further review.

    I'm not saying you won't get into med school if you check the black race box. I'm saying that if you do get into med school, it won't be because you checked that box.
     
  47. JaiT

    JaiT 5+ Year Member

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    In Philly, but from Cali
    That's a an idiotic thing to say

    Sent from my HTC PH39100
     
  48. 235788

    235788 God Complex 2+ Year Member

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    Yeah good luck with that, have fun during interview season.

    egyptian's don't look remotely black. They are an ORM... thank your arab brethren who migrate to the US.
     
  49. Thego2guy

    Thego2guy 5+ Year Member

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    In other words, OP, what she is trying to say, is that the general consensus is that if you are NOT black, which you are not, then the risks do not outweigh the benefits. :thumbup:

    I think he meant it in a semi-sarcastic way. Ridiculous threads require ridiculous answers. He was just trying to prove a point. I can see why it might come off as insensitive though :eyebrow:
     
  50. mclinkin94

    mclinkin94 Banned

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    If only you guys could respond to this forum without your pathetic arrogance and jealousy of the fact that you are not going to be able to get URM. I actually have a chance to pull this off. I could say that I am Half African American and half Egyptian...problem solved.
     
  51. Thego2guy

    Thego2guy 5+ Year Member

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    Dude, its that same "I can pull this shi* off" attitude that is frustrating everyone. Then you preach ethics. Don't be a douche bag. If you are a cookie cutter applicant, and a superficial cut throat premed that gives all the other premeds a bad name, so be it. But don't come here pulling the shi* that you pull. One thread gave you all the answers. If you do not want to listen to others and simply dismiss them as "jealous" or "arrogant" because you only support supportive evidence, then don't ask for opinions. Your moral compass is all fuc*ed up.
     

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