Who are the people who get in to MD programs with the lowest GPAS?

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

Gauss44

Full Member
10+ Year Member
Joined
Oct 28, 2012
Messages
3,185
Reaction score
416
First of all, please don't assume that I'm asking because I have a low GPA. But I am a tutor and a mentor, as well as, a pre-medical student, and a curious soul. I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at the range of GPAs of matriculates at various medical schools and wonders:

What are the qualities that actually allow someone to get in to an MD program with one of the lowest GPAs of all accepted students? Who are these people?

Members don't see this ad.
 
#1 Little question that the applicant can handle the academic rigors of medical school. ie. recent grades are all strong, strong MCAT, etc.
#2 The same qualities that go for every other applicant for medical school. The reality is that while numbers wise the averages are always rising, the overall stock is not changing/improving. Box checkers are a dime a dozen, doing substantive things makes you stand out.

#3 High(er) risk, high reward. There are 'special' applicant every cycle that will stand out, regardless of scores. But, my assumption is that these make up only a small portion of the 'low GPA' matriculants.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
Members don't see this ad :)
They are applicants worth the risk.
These include people with compelling life stories, killer ECs, legacies, and those who have reinvented themselves via massive rising GPA trends in the last 2-3 years of UG, post-bac and/or SMP.

This will come as a shock, if not an insult to the hyper-achievers, but somebody with a 3.25+ GPA can handle med school. They'll struggle, but they can do it. People with high GPAs seem to have better instant recall and intuitive processes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
When we see the single GPA number reported, we do not know the composition of that number. That is, what was the grade trend, did they have a single terrible year due to external issues such as illness, had terrible UG but then went to SMP, etc. I have dealt with atypical /nontrad students that, for example 1) got thrown out of school freshman year with a 0.067 GPA (yes, 0.067) where he majored in party and minored in frat. Went on to graduate honors from another school ; 2) spent 3 years of college under horrendous conditions, including living on the streets for 2 years then went back to college for 3.9. Overall UG GPA was 3.1

A few years ago I looked at aggregate application data and found that in an average year, of the about 50,000 applications, 7,000 are from people with both a 3.39 GPA or less and a 26 or less MCAT with only 400 being accepted. However, 40% of acceptances were for people with either 3.39 GPA or less or a 26 or less MCAT .

Was it this guy?
latest
 
  • Like
Reactions: 11 users
I almost hate to admit it but I had a outdoor Toga party at my parents house after freshman year . A chorus about 50 people chanting "Toga! Toga!" was apparently an inappropriate in response to a policeman's inquiry when he drove up
Sounds like a wild night
 
First of all, please don't assume that I'm asking because I have a low GPA. But I am a tutor and a mentor, as well as, a pre-medical student, and a curious soul. I'm sure I'm not the only one who looks at the range of GPAs of matriculates at various medical schools and wonders:

What are the qualities that actually allow someone to get in to an MD program with one of the lowest GPAs of all accepted students? Who are these people?

I probably had trouble getting into Med School, despite killer stats, because I am brutally honest. I consider avoiding the truth to be a form of dishonesty as well. In the real world, by far the greatest number of people getting into med school with lower GPA's are URM. Nobody else on the thread would say it so I did. The only other quality I have deduced from reading SDN threads is persistence. Hard working people with low GPAs. who keep reapplying many times while improving their
application in the usual ways, seem to gain an admission eventually.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 users
These include people with compelling life stories, killer ECs, legacies, and those who have reinvented themselves via massive rising GPA trends in the last 2-3 years of UG, post-bac and/or SMP.

This will come as a shock, if not an insult to the hyper-achievers, but somebody with a 3.25+ GPA can handle med school. They'll struggle, but they can do it. People with high GPAs seem to have better instant recall and intuitive processes.

When you say killer ECs does it mean something really standout like D1 athlete or veteran, or does hundreds of hours of service to a good cause meet the criteria as well?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I probably had trouble getting into Med School, despite killer stats, because I am brutally honest. I consider avoiding the truth to be a form of dishonesty as well. In the real world, by far the greatest number of people getting into med school with lower GPA's are URM. Nobody else on the thread would say it so I did. The only other quality I have deduced from reading SDN threads is persistence. Hard working people with low GPAs. who keep reapplying many times while improving their
application in the usual ways, seem to gain an admission eventually.

Yes, they improve their apps by doing post-bacs or SMPs, which don't raise the cGPA, but show that they can handle med school. MSAR Online stats alone refute your notion that URMs are the majority of the low stat people gaining admission.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 6 users
Average cGPA for URM matriculants is 3.5 for AA, 3.51 for NA, and 3.59 for Hispanics.

These aren't really low to me...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
I probably had trouble getting into Med School, despite killer stats, because I am brutally honest. I consider avoiding the truth to be a form of dishonesty as well. In the real world, by far the greatest number of people getting into med school with lower GPA's are URM. Nobody else on the thread would say it so I did. The only other quality I have deduced from reading SDN threads is persistence. Hard working people with low GPAs. who keep reapplying many times while improving their
application in the usual ways, seem to gain an admission eventually.
Yes, they improve their apps by doing post-bacs or SMPs, which don't raise the cGPA, but show that they can handle med school. MSAR Online stats alone refute your notion that URMs are the majority of the low stat people gaining admission.
As we saw in the past election cycle, "telling it like it is" is not the same thing as "telling the truth accurately."
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
Members don't see this ad :)
Yes, although a D1 will be less favorably viewed in my eyes
Why is this? I feel like adcoms don't fully appreciate how much work/time/commitment college athletics is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
Why is this? I feel like adcoms don't fully appreciate how much work/time/commitment college athletics is.

Making a big time commitment doesn't make it a worthwhile endeavor...which has a bigger impact on others, 2000 hours of inner city volunteer work with at-risk children or 2000 hours of swim practice?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
We're not idiots. We look for service to others. Athletes have to do all the other stuff premeds do...and a low GPA is not an acceptable tradeoff for playing a sport.

Making a big time commitment doesn't make it a worthwhile endeavor...which has a bigger impact on others, 2000 hours of inner city volunteer work with at-risk children or 2000 hours of swim practice?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 4 users
Making a big time commitment doesn't make it a worthwhile endeavor...which has a bigger impact on others, 2000 hours of inner city volunteer work with at-risk children or 2000 hours of swim practice?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app

I'm not saying that you don't participate in volunteering and all of the other activities that are basically pre reqs.

You clearly have no idea the value of college athletics or what it takes/teaches a person with a statement like that.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Average cGPA for URM matriculants is 3.5 for AA, 3.51 for NA, and 3.59 for Hispanics.

These aren't really low to me...
Those numbers don't sound right.. link source? I doubt average matriculant gpa is lower for Asian Americans than for Hispanics
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
We're not idiots. We look for service to others. Athletes have to do all the other stuff premeds do...and a low GPA is not an acceptable tradeoff for playing a sport.
That's not what I was implying. I was asking why participating in college athletics is not as impressive as compared to other endeavors when paired with a strong GPA and volunteering when time allows.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
We're not idiots. We look for service to others. Athletes have to do all the other stuff premeds do...and a low GPA is not an acceptable tradeoff for playing a sport.
That's not what I was implying. I was asking why participating in college athletics is not as impressive as compared to other endeavors when paired with a strong GPA and volunteering when time allows.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile
 
Those numbers don't sound right.. link source? I doubt average matriculant gpa is lower for Asian Americans than for Hispanics

Found some stats here: https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

Looks like he pulled the wrong number. Average matriculant GPA for Asian Americans is 3.74, for Hispanics it is 3.59, and for white applicants it is 3.73.

Looks like he got the numbers from this chart, but mistakenly pulled the wrong information out for each group.

EDIT: I'm an idiot - AA = African Americans, not sure why I thought it was Asian Americans. The average GPA for African Americans is 3.50.
 
Last edited:
Found some stats here: https://www.aamc.org/download/321498/data/factstablea18.pdf

Looks like he pulled the wrong number. Average matriculant GPA for Asian Americans is 3.74, for Hispanics it is 3.59, and for white applicants it is 3.73.

Looks like he got the numbers from this chart, but mistakenly pulled the wrong information out for each group.
AA stands for African Americans the way I use it. Why would I include Asians in my post about URMs?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Those numbers don't sound right.. link source? I doubt average matriculant gpa is lower for Asian Americans than for Hispanics

AA is African American not asian american. Asian Americans, as a group, are not URM. African Americans normally are URM.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
AA stands for African Americans the way I use it. Why would I include Asians in my post about URMs?

I actually have zero clue, sorry about that! My critical reasoning skills completely failed me there.
 
Why is this? I feel like adcoms don't fully appreciate how much work/time/commitment college athletics is.
We do, and your post wasn't clear. A D1 athlete who can manage to have a good GPA and still do other ECs is impressive. In fact, that can be added to Killer ECs". But on the other hand, many of my colleagues think that D1 is a vitamin.

The athlete who has a low GPA and tries to claim "but my GPA would have been higher if I wasn't playing", or who has little ECs is not going to get any traction. In this case, a college sports career would be evidence that one chose to prioritize the short-term over the long-term, which is not a particularly appealing characteristic in a potential physician. They will simply get crowded out by applicants with stronger academic records.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Those numbers don't sound right.. link source? I doubt average matriculant gpa is lower for Asian Americans than for Hispanics
I thought AA was alcoholics anonymous. In which case anything above a 2.0 is impressive! :)
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
AA is African American not asian american. Asian Americans, as a group, are not URM. African Americans normally are URM.
My mistake! Well I would say those numbers are pretty low compared to averages for non-URM applicants. 3.5-3.59 vs 3.73/3.74 is a pretty significant jump. A 3.5 is definitely generally considered "low" when you're a college student planning on applying to med school, and these are matriculant averages.

Lol AA is for African Americans
 
My mistake! Well I would say those numbers are pretty low compared to averages for non-URM applicants. 3.5-3.59 vs 3.73/3.74 is a pretty significant jump. A 3.5 is definitely generally considered "low" when you're a college student planning on applying to med school, and these are matriculant averages.
The "low" I was thinking was mainly of those with 3.0-3.3 or so. I was assuming OP was asking in regards to numbers like these.
 
The "low" I was thinking was mainly of those with 3.0-3.3 or so. I was assuming OP was asking in regards to numbers like these.

Yeah, or just the lowest per school (all schools, lower tier, higher tier, etc.).
 
Yeah, or just the lowest per school (all schools, lower tier, higher tier, etc.).
Yeah...usually veteran, killer ECs, superb and extensive post bacc, top notch SMP, phenomenal life story, extremely disadvantaged (like homless, etc.), etc. would be my guess.
 
It's most often due to a combination of some of these things:
1. They did a post-bac and killed it
2. They have a high MCAT score
3. disadvantaged + URM
4. Very non trad with an impressive resume
 
4a. veteran + URM
It's most often due to a combination of some of these things:
1. They did a post-bac and killed it
2. They have a high MCAT score
3. disadvantaged + URM
4. Very non trad with an impressive resume
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
That's not what I was implying. I was asking why participating in college athletics is not as impressive as compared to other endeavors when paired with a strong GPA and volunteering when time allows.
Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

goro was saying veteran>D1 athlete specifically, I think.

I see his point and agree. Someone who sacrificed and served our country to benefit the greater good and protect our freedoms>>>>>>>someone who had fun playing a sport. Yes, it shows that you are dedicated to something and can work hard, but it's not selfless or heroic so it's not even in the same category.

Why is this? I feel like adcoms don't fully appreciate how much work/time/commitment college athletics is.

It's not about the time... It's about the commitment to serving other people.

I'm not saying that you don't participate in volunteering and all of the other activities that are basically pre reqs.

You clearly have no idea the value of college athletics or what it takes/teaches a person with a statement like that.

Sent from my SM-G930V using SDN mobile

You clearly are confused about the type of impact that you should be striving to make (and the type that adcoms care about). The impact should be on the lives of the poor, the sick, the marginalized... You think that working hard, being dedicated to a sport, learning how to be part of a team, and how to lose gracefully is the same as helping those in need. It's not and that's the point that @21Rush12 was trying to make. All those things you learn from D1 sports, you can also learn in real life situations where you're actually helping other people and not focusing on yourself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
I have pretty good taste! Try the "dancing man" from New Glarus if you're ever in Wisconsin. Also, take a chill pill! :)
You must not have anyone in your life affected by alcoholism. Lucky you.

No chill pill necessary. That just wasn't funny, boo boo. But you do you. Deuces.
 
You must not have anyone in your life affected by alcoholism. Lucky you.

No chill pill necessary. That just wasn't funny, boo boo. But you do you. Deuces.

I don't think he said anything particularly offensive, honestly. You need to stop acting butt hurt in every thread.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 10 users
You must not have anyone in your life affected by alcoholism. Lucky you.

No chill pill necessary. That just wasn't funny, boo boo. But you do you. Deuces.
Plenty of alcoholics! We just call them Wisconsin residents :)

Edit: I actually do have an alcoholic in my family but he got better and I wish you the best!
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Where's goro with the Xanax in this thread?

Maybe he knows not to mix it with alcohol?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile app
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Top