Who Can Conduct Wisc-IV

[thepug]

Can MSWs and/or LCPs or any other middle-level provider for that matter conduct Wisc-IVs for a Neuropsychologist?

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Can MSWs and/or LCPs or any other middle-level provider for that matter conduct Wisc-IVs for a Neuropsychologist?

If the individual has experience with and is properly trained to administer the WISC-IV, unless there are individual state laws stipulating otherwise, I'd imagine they could give the test while functioning under the supervision of a neuropsychologist, yes. In that case, it wouldn't be much different from a psychometrician administering the measure. Odds are they would not be qualified to interpret the results, however, especially in a neuropsychological context.

 

[erg923]

If the individual has experience with and is properly trained to administer the WISC-IV, unless there are individual state laws stipulating otherwise, I'd imagine they could give the test while functioning under the supervision of a neuropsychologist, yes. In that case, it wouldn't be much different from a psychometrician administering the measure. Odds are they would not be qualified to interpret the results, however, especially in a neuropsychological context.

I agree. I don't really care what their degree is in, or what their other job is, if they have basic clinical skills AND have been properly trained (via direct observation) on npsych test administration, then its fine.

This essentially makes them "psychometrists." Very common for neuropsychologists to use psychometrists if they can afford it.

 

[thepug]

I agree. I don't really care what their degree is in, or what their other job is, if they have basic clinical skills AND have been properly trained (via direct observation) on npsych test administration, then its fine.

This essentially makes them "psychometrists." Very common for neuropsychologists to use psychometrists if they can afford it.

That's what I figured. That's good news. I imagine there is a lot of money to be made contracting these things out...

 

[AcronymAllergy]

That's what I figured. That's good news. I imagine there is a lot of money to be made contracting these things out...

It's also one of the benefits of working in a training environment

 

[thepug]

It's also one of the benefits of working in a training environment

Please explain. I am very naive to real-world practice.

 

[erg923]

Please explain. I am very naive to real-world practice.

He meant its nice since your will always have techs/psychometrists to do your testing for you in settings like this.

 

[Psychadelic2012]

How do you get a job like this? I'm in a master's program in clinical psych, with training in assessment, and I would love to do this for some cash. Any tips?

 

[erg923]

How do you get a job like this? I'm in a master's program in clinical psych, with training in assessment, and I would love to do this for some cash. Any tips?

I was a full time psychometrist at a academic medical center for 2 years post-masters, before my Ph.D. Great gig if you really, really love neuropsychology and testing. Bad gig if you don't.

Im not really sure what tell you regarding getting a position. Obviously, you will just have to look for them. Join the national neuropsychology list-serve, as sometimes position annocunments for psychometricians are posted there. Craigslist too, or just "cold call" local npsych practitionres and hospitals. If you are currently in a masters program you are in a good postion to get some contacts from your faculty/practicum supervisors.

 

[Psychology 76]

Really anyone who is trained can administer the WISC or WAIS or any sort of neuropsych test. I was giving the WAIS to outpatients as a freshman with only a week of training. However, only neuropsychologists can provide the write-ups based off the scores and interpret them.

You can be a full time psychometrist and just administer and score different tests. I think you only need a BA. The psychometrist I worked with only had a BA. (You have to realllly like giving out and scoring tests all day, I couldn't do it).

 

[sydb1367]

Really anyone who is trained can administer the WISC or WAIS or any sort of neuropsych test. I was giving the WAIS to outpatients as a freshman with only a week of training. However, only neuropsychologists can provide the write-ups based off the scores and interpret them.

You can be a full time psychometrist and just administer and score different tests. I think you only need a BA. The psychometrist I worked with only had a BA. (You have to realllly like giving out and scoring tests all day, I couldn't do it).

WISC and WAIS are considered cognitive assessments not npsych, sure npsychs use them but not just npsychs are qualified to interpret and writeup these tests (e.g., regular psychs, school psych).

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

WISC and WAIS are considered cognitive assessments not npsych, sure npsychs use them but not just npsychs are qualified to interpret and writeup these tests (e.g., regular psychs, school psych).

As a standalone assessment is it classified as a cognitive assessment, but it is often used as part of a larger neuropsychological battery. If someone is interpreting the data as part of a larger neuropsychological battery, then the interpretation of the data is very much only the domain of a neuropsychologist.

If someone is being evaluated for cognitive impairments following a stroke, any way you cut the pie...the assessment (which may include a WAIS-IV, WMS-IV, etc) is a neuropsychological assessment, not a cognitive assessment. The same can be said for a child who substained a concussion during soccer practice, and he needs to be evaluated before returning to playing. Assessments like the WISC/WAIS-IV are utilized, but in a context that is quite different than traditional cognitive assessment that is used for placement/classification within a school or general practice.

 

[sydb1367]

As a standalone assessment is it classified as a cognitive assessment, but it is often used as part of a larger neuropsychological battery. If someone is interpreting the data as part of a larger neuropsychological battery, then the interpretation of the data is very much only the domain of a neuropsychologist.

If someone is being evaluated for cognitive impairments following a stroke, any way you cut the pie...the assessment (which may include a WAIS-IV, WMS-IV, etc) is a neuropsychological assessment, not a cognitive assessment. The same can be said for a child who substained a concussion during soccer practice, and he needs to be evaluated before returning to playing. Assessments like the WISC/WAIS-IV are utilized, but in a context that is quite different than traditional cognitive assessment that is used for placement/classification within a school or general practice.

*sigh* I was simply correcting the assertion that WAIS/WISC are ONLY used by npsychs and are ONLY npsych assessements. and yeah npsych assessments should be done by npsychs, kinda goes without saying. WAIS/WISC are often used by school psychologists as a part of a larger educational assessment too.

 

[stigmata]

Also, both tests, the WMS-IV especially has it's roots in neuropsych tests. Legally a licensed psychologist can administer and interpret any test in any setting.

 

[Psychology 76]

As a standalone assessment is it classified as a cognitive assessment, but it is often used as part of a larger neuropsychological battery. If someone is interpreting the data as part of a larger neuropsychological battery, then the interpretation of the data is very much only the domain of a neuropsychologist.

If someone is being evaluated for cognitive impairments following a stroke, any way you cut the pie...the assessment (which may include a WAIS-IV, WMS-IV, etc) is a neuropsychological assessment, not a cognitive assessment. The same can be said for a child who substained a concussion during soccer practice, and he needs to be evaluated before returning to playing. Assessments like the WISC/WAIS-IV are utilized, but in a context that is quite different than traditional cognitive assessment that is used for placement/classification within a school or general practice.

Yes, this is what I meant to say! I should have been more specific but I was a little brain-dead at the time

 

[phillydave]

What about the observable qualitative clinical data that might be useful for the one who is interpreting the results? I imagine a lot of this could potentially be missed..

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

What about the observable qualitative clinical data that might be useful for the one who is interpreting the results? I imagine a lot of this could potentially be missed..

Psychometricians should be trained to include behavioral observations. I have my little preferences on different sub-tests for things I like to know, though after a few testing cases you can get on the same page.

 

[erg923]

What about the observable qualitative clinical data that might be useful for the one who is interpreting the results? I imagine a lot of this could potentially be missed..

Probably the biggest issue raised with regards to using psychometrists. Two things here.

1. Its is important that psychometrist write up their testing observations and provide them to the psychologist. Pretty much every psychologist requires this of their psychometrists. Its even more important they they are trained on what too look for. However, certain rarely occurring pathomnomic signs aside, all the fun stuff that we are trained to look for (eg., block rotations) rarely changes the ultimate diagnosis and conclusions based on interview, history, and test data at the end of the day.

2. Psychometrists allow for an increase in productivity, free up access to npsych services, and ultimately allow the lights to stay on at many hospital based neuropsychological services.

 

[phillydave]

Psychometricians should be trained to include behavioral observations. I have my little preferences on different sub-tests for things I like to know, though after a few testing cases you can get on the same page.

Probably the biggest issue raised with regards to using psychometrists. Two things here.

1. Its is important that psychometrist write up there testing observations and provide them to the psychologists. Its even more important they they are trained on what too look for. However, certain rarely occurring pathomnomic signs aside, all the fun stuff (block rotations) that we are trained to look for rarely changes the ultimate diagnosis and conclusions based on interview, history, and test data at the end of the day.

2. Psychometrists allow for an increase in productivity, free up access to npsych services, and ultimately allow the lights to stay on at many hospital based neuropsychological services.

Having never dealt with psychometricians before, I certainly trust your opinions. Certainly, it sounds like such a blessing in high volume practices. The only thing I wonder about is missing out on those potential cases where you can form your hunches from face to face time with the patient. Thinking back to past cases, there are some where I felt that the most useful information I gathered was from watching how a patient struggled with a particular subtest. However, if a psychometrician is trained to observe and report this than I would certainly see this as a great advantage to the report writer.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

It's a tradeoff of doing 8hr of testing and seeing everything, compared to doing the interview and having a lot more time to write reports. I do most of my own assessment work (at the moment), though I'll probably use techs once I open a PP.

 

[cara susanna]

I'm working as a psychometrist right now. I really like it.

 

[IT514]

In addition to whats been mentioned, I'll add that management of behavioral issues during testing is a big factor. I've seen some non-grad student psychometricians really struggle with kids who push limits and with frontal TBI patients, not to mention the regular jerks and non-pathological old curmudgeons. The result can be someone walking out of the office vs staying and getting usable data. I've rarely seen someone walk out on a grad student - but I've seen it more frequently in psychometricians.

With the training I've had, I can pretty much guarantee I'll get the best out of anyone. Just this week I walked out into the waiting room to get a frontal TBI patient for an assessment, who greeted me with a "who the hell are you, wheres my doctor?" I loved it because it gave me a chance to use all of my clinical skills, and the behavioral obs over the three hours were pretty rich information that werent apparent on the test results. For me its fun, for psychometricians, not so fun.

But like others have said its a trade off, and I can tell you for certain that I'll be using a psychometrician when I'm on my own.

 

[voyeurofthemind]

In addition to whats been mentioned, I'll add that management of behavioral issues during testing is a big factor. I've seen some non-grad student psychometricians really struggle with kids who push limits and with frontal TBI patients, not to mention the regular jerks and non-pathological old curmudgeons. The result can be someone walking out of the office vs staying and getting usable data. I've rarely seen someone walk out on a grad student - but I've seen it more frequently in psychometricians.

With the training I've had, I can pretty much guarantee I'll get the best out of anyone. Just this week I walked out into the waiting room to get a frontal TBI patient for an assessment, who greeted me with a "who the hell are you, wheres my doctor?" I loved it because it gave me a chance to use all of my clinical skills, and the behavioral obs over the three hours were pretty rich information that werent apparent on the test results. For me its fun, for psychometricians, not so fun.

But like others have said its a trade off, and I can tell you for certain that I'll be using a psychometrician when I'm on my own.

I love it! So interesting. I have done some testing but with relatively healthy populations. What are some of the atypical behaviors you get from frontal TBI pts? Just curious...

 

[erg923]

I love it! So interesting. I have done some testing but with relatively healthy populations. What are some of the atypical behaviors you get from frontal TBI pts? Just curious...

Topical perseverations, utilization behavior, getting "stuck in set," sexually inappopriate comments/talk, easily overwhelmed/frustrated, "Hey, **** you, Im leaving!!"

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Dear friends please I need the book of stimulus SCANNED of the wisc iv I have a lot of books to _______

Spam. But just for the sake of responding, I'm pretty sure no one here's going to break probably a half-dozen copyright laws as well as a shatter an ethical tenet or three for ya, sorry.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Topical perseverations, utilization behavior, getting "stuck in set," sexually inappopriate comments/talk, easily overwhelmed/frustrated, "Hey, **** you, Im leaving!!"

Don't forget about all of the fun problems that pop up with testing children. I worked with a kid the other day that made me wish the mints in my pocket were really Ritalin.

 

[OhHello]

I think it depends on the state but I think in mine you either become a licensed psychologist and then you can do w/e test, or you get an MA in a degree called counseling psychology and then get licensed as a "clinical social worker." As far as what I've seen that seems to be a lot of what people w/that degree do.

 

[erg923]

I think it depends on the state but I think in mine you either become a licensed psychologist and then you can do w/e test, or you get an MA in a degree called counseling psychology and then get licensed as a "clinical social worker." As far as what I've seen that seems to be a lot of what people w/that degree do.

Please dont attempt to answer questions that you obviously dont know anything about. Please. There are so many things wrong in your response I dont even know where to start...and you only wrote 2 sentences, so that should tell you something..lol

 

[serendipity2]

Please dont attempt to answer questions that you obviously dont know anything about. Please...

 

[paramour]

Please dont attempt to answer questions that you obviously dont know anything about. Please. There are so many things wrong in your response I dont even know where to start...and you only wrote 2 sentences, so that should tell you something..lol

Yay! Someone finally responded.

I've been biting my tongue entirely too long. THANK YOU!

 

[Marian Clarke]

Please dont attempt to answer questions that you obviously dont know anything about. Please. There are so many things wrong in your response I dont even know where to start...and you only wrote 2 sentences, so that should tell you something..lol

Ouch lol