Who should and should not go to medschool

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i don;t know how it's possible to fit everyone into these 5 categories.
maybe it's just me, but these characters seem somewhat marginal...:rolleyes:
and the gist of OP's message, as i understood it, is that if one is an outgoing smart leader, they should choose a more profitable profession--->which is absurd IMHO.

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Many pre-meds complete a list of activities, at the bequest of their pre-med adviser, parents, fellow SDNers, etc. all for the purpose to make themselves seemingly more competitive. In doing so, however, they risk losing their unique 'spark.' It is annoying when people do activities 'just to get into med school.' It is especially annoying (to me) when things like volunteering abroad become a part of this cookie cutter list. Can volunteering in a hospital show you what it's like to be a doctor? Maybe, but not if you're filing paperwork. Did that 2 week volunteer trip to Africa change your world view? I'm sure it did...

I think what the OP is getting at, is that people who decide that they are going to be doctors very early on, and who go through the process with single-mindedness, might be losing something in the experience. Perhaps I feel this way, because I was not set on medicine from the beginning. Perhaps, it is because I have met some very BORING and naive pre-med club presidents. Does deciding that medicine is right for you when you were in kindergarten mean that you will not be a good doctor? No. Is coming in with a specific game plan that you will ONLY do specialty x, as the OP suggested a good strategy? Probably not.

But, coming in with ONLY the vague ideas of "I like science" and "I want to help people" is a little naive. It is this person, I feel, who will be disillusioned in the end. This is why the OP points people who have other strong passions and who realize in the end that being a physician is a JOB and that they will have to fit their lives around it.
 

You left us hanging. Who SHOULD get in if all of these people have flaws large enough to deny them an acceptance?
 
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But, coming in with ONLY the vague ideas of "I like science" and "I want to help people" is a little naive. It is this person, I feel, who will be disillusioned in the end

Personally I disagree. I think the most likely way to be disillusioned is to be, well, illusioned in the first place. The OP describes 5 people who have a very clear, borderline fanatical, and completely innacurate visions of medicine, three of whom already want specific specialties that they probably won´t get. My favorite is the woman who wants academic medicine so she can spend time with her kids, even though by the time she´s finished the constant grind of first medical school and then residency and actually starts academic medicine those kids are gonna be pretty much grown. You want happy docs, recruit the most cynical, misanthropic undergraduates you can. Then medicine might actually excede their expectations.

BTW, does character number 5 sound like a future cardiologist to anyone? "running for fitness, birdwatching for calm".
 
Personally I disagree. I think the most likely way to be disillusioned is to be, well, illusioned in the first place. The OP describes 5 people who have a very clear, borderline fanatical, and completely innacurate visions of medicine, three of whom already want specific specialties that they probably won´t get. You want happy docs, recruit the most cynical, misanthropic undergraduates you can. Then medicine might actually excede their expectations.

haha - I agree with you on the cynical undergrad :) I certainly don't think that the OP gave us ANY good MD candidates. What I was trying to say was, that someone who just "wants to help people" and thinks that they will get total fulfillment and that there will be daisies and roses every day, will get burnt out when they find out that it isn't like that. I know that not everyone thinks this way -- but they do exist!
 
Greetings,


1. Six and a half footer, 230 pounder, rugby captain in an intramural college team. Bound for orthopedic surgery, and that's the only reason why he's going to medschool. MCAT 34. In his essay he speaks about how he was sold to ortho by his uncle, and he's been hanging out with ortho residents every summer during college, literally 'shadowing' them, i.e. they wake up in the middle of the night to piss and check on patients (if they sleep at all), so does he.

2. A woman at 29 week gestational age and impeccable smile. She's been a valedictorian since her kindergarten. MCAT in low 40s. She smiles every 20 seconds during the interview, and shows me pictures of her 5 year old son and 2 year old daughter. She has a PhD and several first author publications in skin research. She wants to do academic dermatology because she wants a balanced life, and her family comes first.

3. A guy with a pony tail and application essay about his experience as an EMT. MCAT 28. He has been in EMT since sophomore in highschool. Dead-bound for emergency medicine. As a former EMT myself, I chat him up about it. He rolls up his shirt and shows me the cross of life tatooed on his wrist.

4. A guy with Armani suit, suitcase, and an engineering degree. He holds several patents and started a company which took off. He sees himself as an enterpreneur, and does not plan to practice medicine, but hopes to use his medical education for project ideas.

5. A biology major with an essay about his birdwatching hobby. He's thinking about radiology or pathology because he likes the diagnostic aspect of it. Runs marathons.

Best,

so which one were you like?
 
Well, there is a substantial likelihood that neither of these first two will get into the extremely competitive specialties they seek. Unless they want to be a doctor first and a specialist second, I think schools ought to take a dim view of them. You can't go to med school with the expectation of doing derm or ortho. Most people won't get these things, and the vast majority of residency slots aren't these. It's well and nice to dream big, but if that is "the only reason you are going to med school" don't wast the time. As example, there is a thread on the allo board now about a med student thinking of dropping out because his med school difficulties are going to make getting a competitive specialty such as ortho unlikely. This is not the kind of commitment the field needs. If you are going to cut and run if you can't be in the upper echelon, it's hardly worth the bother. If you are ortho or bust, stay away because most people who limit their options at the outset will bust. Best to go into medicine with an open mind and an excitement to do clinical work, and nothing more, until later in the game. If you are doctor or bust but if things work out you'd love to do ortho, that's a better tack. Just my opinion. But your first example, suggesting that a very competitive field is the only reason he is attending, is a very very questionable admission. Hope other adcoms don't share your view. I know quite a few who don't.
As always, L2D, words of wisdom :thumbup:
 
the original poster on this thread sounds like a real idiot. to all of you planning to apply to medical school, be sure you pay no mind to this guy. this is like saying you should know you want to be a fireman when you are 5 years old. get a life man. most people discover what they want to go into during their clinical years (3 and 4) not at birth.
 
Hey! Somebody took 15 minutes and ranked this thread -1 star- enough to make it show up on the main page! I was wondering if it counted rankings from the same person... must have taken 4 ever...

Edit- actually if you hover over it, it says "3 votes". I have "voted" on several threads, but it has never shown up. Do 2 people have to vote?

Yeah. You can only vote once on a thread.

I one-starred this sucker.
 
Agreed. Oh no, a biology major going to med school! Heavens to Betsy. I think it would be a very poor idea to go to med school if you don't like science, because you'll sure get a large enough dose of it between all of your undergrad prereqs and all the biochemistry, histology and genetics you get in med school.

My random $0.02... you don't need to really like science to be a doctor. You just have to be able to tolerate it. I love all things clinical; science is the means to an end. How I didn't realize I should be in surgery until I did a few surgical rotations / shadows is beyond me... :p
 
What If I tell them that I am a heavy drinker. That should help me stick out too? Right?
 
I'm confused....so the gist of that "rant" was those who: live, breathe, reek, pray, dream, think about 24/7, etc medicine should go to medical school and if you are lacking in any of those areas medicine isn't for you:confused:

Man, it's over for me:rolleyes:

And I personally don't like science.....it interests me alot but I don't classify it as love. I love learning about new things. I really, really like biology, that is interesting to learn about. Chem is another story
 
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Greetings,

I am a resident, and recently I started a rather inflammatory thread about the opportunity cost of medicine, concluding that in general medicine is a bad choice of a career. (stupid crap erased)

Best,

That was absolutely horrible.
 
2. A woman at 29 week gestational age and impeccable smile. She's been a valedictorian since her kindergarten. MCAT in low 40s. She smiles every 20 seconds during the interview, and shows me pictures of her 5 year old son and 2 year old daughter. She has a PhD and several first author publications in skin research. She wants to do academic dermatology because she wants a balanced life, and her family comes first.

Nice numbers, not so great incentive. If you are all about your family you should not be a physician. This person is not worth a medical school spot. This school could have had someone who would have put their heart and soul into medicine, instead we get someone who wants a cushy and flexible job.
 
Funny I was thinking you were putting people who should and shouldnt be accepted into one single list so I was trying to decide who shouldnt get in. I came up with #1,3,4 and 5 were bad candidates. Oops.


That's what I thought too...

Except I liked the engineer as well. :rolleyes:
 
Funny I was thinking you were putting people who should and shouldnt be accepted into one single list so I was trying to decide who shouldnt get in. I came up with #1,3,4 and 5 were bad candidates. Oops.

How is the one candidate, who will put medicine on a distant back burner, the only good one to you?
 
Nice numbers, not so great incentive. If you are all about your family you should not be a physician. This person is not worth a medical school spot. This school could have had someone who would have put their heart and soul into medicine, instead we get someone who wants a cushy and flexible job.

Here's the thing, if she were EXPLICIT that she wanted those things, most people wouldn't let her in. However, if she were aiming for those things any way but you didn't know about it, then most people would accept her. I mean, come on, would any "smart" applicant flat out tell your their true desire to go to medical school if it actually hurt them? The answer is no.

And this is why when you actually get to med school, you'll see people like this. What they are and what they put on their application are slight variations of each other.
 
Here's the thing, if she were EXPLICIT that she wanted those things, most people wouldn't let her in. However, if she were aiming for those things any way but you didn't know about it, then most people would accept her. I mean, come on, would any "smart" applicant flat out tell your their true desire to go to medical school if it actually hurt them? The answer is no.

And this is why when you actually get to med school, you'll see people like this. What they are and what they put on their application are slight variations of each other.

I completely agree with you. If she was quiet about that then there is not much an adcom can do. However, I got the gist from the OP that this trait was a explicit and desirable trait about her, hence why I brought it up.
 
I completely agree with you. If she was quiet about that then there is not much an adcom can do. However, I got the gist from the OP that this trait was a explicit and desirable trait about her, hence why I brought it up.

Does the OP have any "good" applicants or is it so easy to think of bad ones?
 
Greetings,

I am a resident, and recently I started a rather inflammatory thread about the opportunity cost of medicine, concluding that in general medicine is a bad choice of a career. Needless to say, was extensively criticized. One critique I agreed with: it was pointed out that I was not constructive. In other words, I did not specify for whom medicine is a good choice.

So here I am to tell you what a truly dedicated medschool applicant should be like. I'll give you profiles of women and men whom I've really met. Those are the people whom I would trust if I were patient. They have 1 thing in common: they have a clear vision of their post-medical school career before they even start medschool.

I will also give examples of their antithesis.

Since I am poised to land medical school faculty position in next several years, and may become part of admission committee, you should listen up... Maybe you'll be my interviewee.

1. Six and a half footer, 230 pounder, rugby captain in an intramural college team. Bound for orthopedic surgery, and that's the only reason why he's going to medschool. MCAT 34. In his essay he speaks about how he was sold to ortho by his uncle, and he's been hanging out with ortho residents every summer during college, literally 'shadowing' them, i.e. they wake up in the middle of the night to piss and check on patients (if they sleep at all), so does he.

2. A woman at 29 week gestational age and impeccable smile. She's been a valedictorian since her kindergarten. MCAT in low 40s. She smiles every 20 seconds during the interview, and shows me pictures of her 5 year old son and 2 year old daughter. She has a PhD and several first author publications in skin research. She wants to do academic dermatology because she wants a balanced life, and her family comes first.

3. A guy with a pony tail and application essay about his experience as an EMT. MCAT 28. He has been in EMT since sophomore in highschool. Dead-bound for emergency medicine. As a former EMT myself, I chat him up about it. He rolls up his shirt and shows me the cross of life tatooed on his wrist.

4. A guy with Armani suit, suitcase, and an engineering degree. He holds several patents and started a company which took off. He sees himself as an enterpreneur, and does not plan to practice medicine, but hopes to use his medical education for project ideas.

5. A biology major with an essay about his birdwatching hobby. He's thinking about radiology or pathology because he likes the diagnostic aspect of it. Runs marathons.

The profiles described above are real people whom I have met and who gained admission into medical schools, although I was not their interviewer.

Now I will give you a profile of a generic applicant who NEVER SHOULD APPLY TO MEDICAL SCHOOL. These applicants tend to have 1 thing in common: they say they 'love science', 'love people', and want to 'improve other people lives'.


A biology major from an Ivy League institution who is a president of local 'premed society'. Did research during college and has a fourth author publication to prove it. Shadowed a family practice physician for 2 weeks. Writes essay how he wants to combine his science interest with helping people. He's thinking about surgery or anesthesia, or radiology, or internal medicine.

Here is how to see BS in this application:
If you truly 'love science', then you would not waste your time reading this post, but right now you would be writing emails to the leaders of your field of interest.

If you truly 'love people', and are 'people person' then you should look into sales, not medicine. In medicine, you should 'love sick people'.

If you 'want to improve other people lives', then you're golden, as pretty much any career out there, with possible exception of a criminal or Bear Stearn CEO would fit the bill.

Best,

What about the applicant who watched a love one suffer through cancer and wishes to dedicate their life to oncology?

Person has suffered a debilitating disease, worked through it and now wants to help others?

Or how about the other 10,000 examples of people that don't fit into your neat little box? You have no idea how these people you believe will turn out to be great physicians will actually turn out. I think maybe you need a vacation.
 
Does the OP have any "good" applicants or is it so easy to think of bad ones?

So much for being in agreement with you.

Anyway, I thought 1, 3, 5 were all good applicants. Number 4, the engineer, doesn't even want to actively practice medicine, he wants to add it to his marketing toolbox. Instead of depriving this country of a physician, he should read a book.
 
Note to self:

Before going to interview
1) buy Armani suit
2) grow pony tail
3) get tattoo
 
Oh hai guise...i run marathons. :)

brb watchin a bird.
 
1) I don't think I'd want the OP to be my doctor.

2) I don't think I'd recommend the OP for admission if I were interviewing him/her for medical school.
 
So much for being in agreement with you.

Anyway, I thought 1, 3, 5 were all good applicants. Number 4, the engineer, doesn't even want to actively practice medicine, he wants to add it to his marketing toolbox. Instead of depriving this country of a physician, he should read a book.

But in the OP's mind, these were all bad ones (though I think some are decent). I want to here what HIS good applicants would be, or if this thread is just a rant full of negatives...
 
Anyway, I thought 1, 3, 5 were all good applicants. Number 4, the engineer, doesn't even want to actively practice medicine, he wants to add it to his marketing toolbox. Instead of depriving this country of a physician, he should read a book.

Well, if we´re rating them

1) Not good but not terrible. Only interested in one competitive specialty that he very well may not get. Lots of clinical experience, though, so maybe he´ll be alright.

2) Awful awful awful. Is absolutely relying on getting a competitive specialty she very well might not get (especially if she´s always racing home to take care of the kids, its not fair but what is?). Wants to spend more time with her family yet is going into an enviornment that will lock her into crazy work weeks until she finishes her residency in 9 YEARS, in other words when her oldest is half way through HS. After that she wants to go work in an academic enviorment that she´s already qualified to work in right now. hy go at all?

3) The only good candidate, I think. He´ll grow out of the EM thing in a year, or at least 90% of the EMTs do. I´m not a fan of how EMTs are becoming a larger and larger percetage of medical school (should we really need to learn these kind of clinical techniques before gonig to the school? What´s the point of the school?) but that´s hardly his fault. Shave his head and admit him.

4) Awful awful awful. Medical school is designed for people who want to go into medicine. Years 3 and 4 are nothing but clinical experience, as is your residency. If you want help with your patents you go get a PhD. What a waste of a spot

5) All I really know about this guy is that in his essay about why he wants to medical school, he wrote about bird watching. Think about if this was a conversation instead of an essay:

You: "why do you want to be a doctor"

BirdGuy "I like parakeets"

That´s¨just not a good sign. However I really don´t have enough information to rate him, and I like other distance runners, so I´ll give him the benifit of the doubt.

So 2 admissions (admit the EMT and half and admission for both birdguy and the orthopod) out of 5 "good" applicants.
 
But in the OP's mind, these were all bad ones (though I think some are decent). I want to here what HIS good applicants would be, or if this thread is just a rant full of negatives...

i here what ur sayin
 
Well, if we´re rating them

1) Not good but not terrible. Only interested in one competitive specialty that he very well may not get. Lots of clinical experience, though, so maybe he´ll be alright.

2) Awful awful awful. Is absolutely relying on getting a competitive specialty she very well might not get (especially if she´s always racing home to take care of the kids, its not fair but what is?). Wants to spend more time with her family yet is going into an enviornment that will lock her into crazy work weeks until she finishes her residency in 9 YEARS, in other words when her oldest is half way through HS. After that she wants to go work in an academic enviorment that she´s already qualified to work in right now. hy go at all?

3) The only good candidate, I think. He´ll grow out of the EM thing in a year, or at least 90% of the EMTs do. I´m not a fan of how EMTs are becoming a larger and larger percetage of medical school (should we really need to learn these kind of clinical techniques before gonig to the school? What´s the point of the school?) but that´s hardly his fault. Shave his head and admit him.

4) Awful awful awful. Medical school is designed for people who want to go into medicine. Years 3 and 4 are nothing but clinical experience, as is your residency. If you want help with your patents you go get a PhD. What a waste of a spot

5) All I really know about this guy is that in his essay about why he wants to medical school, he wrote about bird watching. Think about if this was a conversation instead of an essay:

You: "why do you want to be a doctor"

BirdGuy "I like parakeets"

That´s¨just not a good sign. However I really don´t have enough information to rate him, and I like other distance runners, so I´ll give him the benifit of the doubt.

So 2 admissions (admit the EMT and half and admission for both birdguy and the orthopod) out of 5 "good" applicants.

The problem with this analysis as I've already noted before is that the OP has shown us who people REALLY are, not who they claim to be. Most people aren't stupid enough to "bare all" and hope the interviewer ignores some stuff.
 
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Think about if this was a conversation instead of an essay:

You: "why do you want to be a doctor"

BirdGuy "I like parakeets"

That´s¨just not a good sign.

So 2 admissions (admit the EMT and half and admission for both birdguy and the orthopod) out of 5 "good" applicants.

:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh:
 
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