Who wants to specialize? What type of specialization?

[Piznut99]

I want to specialize in either ortho or oral surgery.....but i heard after 4 yrs of dental school you just want to get out and start working. NO MORE SCHOOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I also heard that a specialist can only work on patients in their field and they cannot practice general dentistry. But a general dentist can do some of the things that specialist do. ?!?!?

I was wondering how many people want to specialize and what field they would like to pursue?

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[aphistis]

Should a desire to specialize maybe be based on a more solid foundation than "I heard..."?

Why do you think you want to specialize in ortho/OMS? The two fields are about as diametrically opposed as you can find in dentistry.

 

[flat4]

I am one of those that wants to get out ASAP. Unlesss I see something I really like in the clinics my plan is and always has been to go GP. I'm keeping my scores up just in case I do want to specialize but the master plan is to eventually have specialists on my payroll. That way, I could have best of both worlds

 

[JavadiCavity]

Quite possibly a GPR.

 

[River13]

When I started dental school I had worked for a couple of endodontists and was pretty sure that was going to be my destination...after a couple years in dschool I realized how interesting and challenging OMFS is. The rest is history..........................

 

[drusier]

you need to know your personal answer to this question when u interview. I think its best to say you are leaving every door open...

 

[ItsGavinC]

you need to know your personal answer to this question when u interview. I think its best to say you are leaving every door open...

That's a good and realistic viewpoint.

The effort needed to be top in the class may be too much when compared to the effort needed to be middle-of-the-road

 

[Piznut99]

Should a desire to specialize maybe be based on a more solid foundation than "I heard..."?

Why do you think you want to specialize in ortho/OMS? The two fields are about as diametrically opposed as you can find in dentistry.

Reason why i like ortho is because like many i have had braces. In the process of straightning my teeth i was able to chat with my orthodontist and talk about it as a career choice. I guess its seems to be the least stressful of all the options. You come in to work look at a few new patients, put on some new braces, and then your assistants take care of the rest.

Oral surgery seems very fascinating to me...though i dont know too much about it yet. The procedures that they perform are incredible. It just seems like an occupation where you wouldnt get bored.

The question is how difficult will it be to get accepted. You have to bust your butt to be like top 3-5% in your class plus you have to beat out others nation wide who are applying. THe question i would have to ask myself is "is 4 years of butt busting worth getting the chance to specialize?''

 

[Biogirl361]

the reality is most of us don't know what we want to do because we are not even in dental school yet and have never even seen some or most of the specialties, let alone tried them. how can someone say they want to be an orthodontist when they have never put braces on someone or taken classes about it? ortho is harder than it looks. i am not even thinking about specialties yet - i am just trying to get into dental school in the first place! this is my take on it (and all of my interviewers so far seemed to agree! )

 

[aphistis]

the reality is most of us don't know what we want to do because we are not even in dental school yet and have never even seen some or most of the specialties, let alone tried them. how can someone say they want to be an orthodontist when they have never put braces on someone or taken classes about it? ortho is harder than it looks. i am not even thinking about specialties yet - i am just trying to get into dental school in the first place! this is my take on it (and all of my interviewers so far seemed to agree! )

I used to think ortho looked pretty interesting. Now that we're being gradually exposed to it, I'm definitely changing my mind. It's obviously great for a lot of people, but WAY too cerebral & theoretical for me. Surgery, on the other hand...I fell in love with the OR back when I was a pre-med and spent time in different hospital departments. I love the philosophy of surgery--diagnose, cut, fix, send home.

Now as for whether I'm able to get in, that's another story. But if I don't, give me a GPR and throw me out into the world of general dentistry. I'll still be a happy camper.

 

[aphistis]

Reason why i like ortho is because like many i have had braces. In the process of straightning my teeth i was able to chat with my orthodontist and talk about it as a career choice. I guess its seems to be the least stressful of all the options. You come in to work look at a few new patients, put on some new braces, and then your assistants take care of the rest.

Oral surgery seems very fascinating to me...though i dont know too much about it yet. The procedures that they perform are incredible. It just seems like an occupation where you wouldnt get bored.

The question is how difficult will it be to get accepted. You have to bust your butt to be like top 3-5% in your class plus you have to beat out others nation wide who are applying. THe question i would have to ask myself is "is 4 years of butt busting worth getting the chance to specialize?''

Incidentally, this isn't true. Remember ~20% of dentists are specialists of one sort or another. Yeah, being in the top 5% of your class will help your chances, but it's not a necessity.

 

[jheidenr]

If I had $1 for every predent that I met who wants to go into ortho, I wouldn't need to go into dentistry anymore. I hear the "had braces when I was growing up so now I want to be an orthodontist" story a lot too. We once polled my schools predentl club and found that over half of the members wanted to specialize in ortho.

 

[Bullfan16]

One thing my father/other dentists have told me is to go to dental school, work your butt off, and not worry about specializing. If you get the grades AND are interested in pursuing this in your 3rd or 4th year, then you think about it. First things first, we all need to get in. There's enough stress related to just that. Second, everyone needs to survive the first and second years. If you guys are set on specializing, so be it, but honestly, if and when I get in I am more worried about getting through than going on to specialize. There's enough pressure to get decent grades in all of the pre-clinical sciences, who needs that much more??? Besides, who knows how you will feel after 2-3 years in dental school...maybe you will be content to be a GP and wont want to go to school for 2-6 more years...

Just my $.02

 

[Trookie]

One thing my father/other dentists have told me is to go to dental school, work your butt off, and not worry about specializing. If you get the grades AND are interested in pursuing this in your 3rd or 4th year, then you think about it.

Agreed. At this point, I would be more than happy just to make it as a general dentist. GPR does sound intriguing though.

I have a know-it-all 16 year old cousin who is just SO sure that he's going to be an orthodontist because he once had braces, and it seemed easy.

 

[dprice121]

Someone can say they want to be an orthodontist the same way you or anyone else on this forum can say they want to be a dentist.

Have you ever filled a cavity? Have you ever performed a root canal? Then how do you know you want to be a dentist?

the reality is most of us don't know what we want to do because we are not even in dental school yet and have never even seen some or most of the specialties, let alone tried them. how can someone say they want to be an orthodontist when they have never put braces on someone or taken classes about it? ortho is harder than it looks. i am not even thinking about specialties yet - i am just trying to get into dental school in the first place! this is my take on it (and all of my interviewers so far seemed to agree! )

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

future pedodontist hopeful here!!!

 

[Mo007]

I dont want to challenge anybody's point of view, but I think anyone seeking to specialize should not base his/her desire to specialize by simply reading the description of the specialty, but by getting some sort of exposure - that way you are well informed about your choices. Dental students are obvioulsy in a better position to make such choices than pre-dents.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[Al-Qahhar]

I like the idea of doing some kind of specialization but I don't think one can make
that choice without being clinically exposed to the specialization. Many people go into Dental School wanting to specialize in something particular but end up doing GP or some other specialization. I think it might be naive to choose something before Dental School.

Like most pre-dents, I'm worried about getting into Dental School and actually suceeding. (Especially with hand tremors) I'll think about specialization if and after I get in somewhere.

 

[mike3kgt]

We once polled my schools predentl club and found that over half of the members wanted to specialize in ortho.

We all get asked that question during orientation... how many want to go into orthodontics?? Like 1/2 to 2/3 of the class raises their hands

-Mike

 

[charmstot]

I am interested in academics.

 

[Biogirl361]

Someone can say they want to be an orthodontist the same way you or anyone else on this forum can say they want to be a dentist.

Have you ever filled a cavity? Have you ever performed a root canal? Then how do you know you want to be a dentist?

alright, point taken, but i still think most students have much much more exposure to general dentistry than to most specialties. if that doesn't apply to you then ignore me
i once heard an admissions officer say that loads of people come in saying they want to be pedodontists, but only 4-5 still want it when they leave. i am guessing this is true for many specialties.

 

[aphistis]

Someone can say they want to be an orthodontist the same way you or anyone else on this forum can say they want to be a dentist.

Have you ever filled a cavity? Have you ever performed a root canal? Then how do you know you want to be a dentist?

Simple, they learn they want to be a dentist through exposure to the field. That's what shadowing is for. You're confusing exposure with expertise. Likewise, when you get into dental school, you gain *exposure* to the different dental specialties while you gain *expertise* in general dentistry, and from that exposure people make decisions about desiring a particular specialty, or turning their backs on all of them and practicing as a GP.

Nonetheless, for all its complete lack of a factual foundation, your sanctimony is impressive.

 

[Jone]

if you guys think being an ortho would be great just because it's easy and you get paid a lot, you are naive.

i left a job in corporate america that was well paying and very easy, to go to dental school. surfing the web 8 hours a day, and getting paid $30/hour for it got old real fast. in fact, it left me quiet depressed.

just some food for thought.

 

[OzDDS]

There are many options with dentistry... you may change your mind once your in dental school.

General dentistry
Radiology
Anesthesiology
Pathology
Surgery
Prosthodontics
Periodontics
Orthodontics
Research
Teaching
Pedatric
Endodontics
Public Health

by the time you finish there may possibly be even more options... so keep an open mind. There tons of awesome things to do with a career in dentistry!

 

[TucsonDDS]

if you guys think being an ortho would be great just because it's easy and you get paid a lot, you are naive.

i left a job in corporate america that was well paying and very easy, to go to dental school. surfing the web 8 hours a day, and getting paid $30/hour for it got old real fast. in fact, it left me quiet depressed.

just some food for thought.

I know what you mean. I am sitting here surfing the web right now at 39.10/hr. Tomarrow it will be overtime at $78/hr. It pays really well but leaves me wanting something else. Financially going back to school for 4 or more years doesn't make any sense but I will be happier in the end.

 

[Biogirl361]

what job is this that surfs the web for 30/hr? can i have it for my summer job?

 

[mike3kgt]

There are many options with dentistry... you may change your mind once your in dental school.

General dentistry
Radiology
Anesthesiology
Pathology
Surgery
Prosthodontics
Periodontics
Orthodontics
Research
Teaching
Pedatric
Endodontics
Public Health

by the time you finish there may possibly be even more options... so keep an open mind. There tons of awesome things to do with a career in dentistry!

There is also corporate jobs like at pharmaceutical companies, insurancy companies. Government jobs in research, community dentistry, military, politics, etc!

I was applying to dental school and medical schools and talked with my family about the two options. It was said to me that medical school has so many options and dental school SO few. After going through a year and (almost) a half of dental school... I couldn't disagree more. There are so many options!

-Mike

 

[Zurik5]

After three months, I now know that I want to get the hell out of school, asap.... I plan on being a semi-pro golfer following graduation...

 

[gryffindor]

I know what you mean. I am sitting here surfing the web right now at 39.10/hr. Tomarrow it will be overtime at $78/hr. It pays really well but leaves me wanting something else. Financially going back to school for 4 or more years doesn't make any sense but I will be happier in the end.

Seriously, what jobs are these? This job sounds like it pays more, is less risky, and is less stressful than moonlighting as a general dentist on the side during residency. I'm interested to know - a resident's salary isn't so great and I wouldn't mind surfing the web for some cash when I'm not slaving in the clinic.

 

[Gutta Percha]

Why does everyone think ortho seems easy? If it is so easy, then why do only a handful of dental students become orthodontists and only a few GP's provide ortho for their patients.

 

[EHA DDS]

When I was applying to dental school I fell in love with OMS. It still looks great but man, 4-6 years more school. And I have realized that you don't choose OMS, OMS chooses you. It's very competitive since it is the creme de la creme of dental specialties.

Endo: Boring
Ortho: Repetitive
Prostho: Implants are the future
Perio: has some surgery so cool

GP: I think this is cool since you do a bit of everything and still make decent $

 

[dprice121]

Simple, they learn they want to be a dentist through exposure to the field. That's what shadowing is for. You're confusing exposure with expertise. Likewise, when you get into dental school, you gain *exposure* to the different dental specialties while you gain *expertise* in general dentistry, and from that exposure people make decisions about desiring a particular specialty, or turning their backs on all of them and practicing as a GP.

Nonetheless, for all its complete lack of a factual foundation, your sanctimony is impressive.

You clearly didn't understand my point. You're making the same argument I was making, you just didn't pick up on it. Why don't you go back and read it again? My point was, someone can know they want to be an orthodontist or any other specialty BEFORE starting dental school, just as someone can know they want to be a dentist before going to dental school. If you're interested in a specialty it's not that hard to gain exposure to the field. I'm sure there's many applicants out there who have parents or relatives who are specialists. And even if they don't, you can shadow an orthodontist just like you can shadow a dentist. You don't have to go to dental school first in order to realize you want to specialize....although granted, many people probably change their minds once in dental school, but they are the ones who probably didn't gain enough exposure to the field first.

 

[TucsonDDS]

Seriously, what jobs are these? This job sounds like it pays more, is less risky, and is less stressful than moonlighting as a general dentist on the side during residency. I'm interested to know - a resident's salary isn't so great and I wouldn't mind surfing the web for some cash when I'm not slaving in the clinic.

I am a registered nurse in the resource pool. Not everyday is surfing the net, sometimes I am doing compressions on 6 month olds, but the large majority of the time is fairly kicked back. I was able to most of my studying for the DAT during work time. The wonders of working nights.

 

[Bullfan16]

I think the moral of the story is....lets not jump the gun here (especially those of us who arent in yet). I'm not sure if Zurik wanted to specialize or not before going into dental school, but look what he said....he just wants to get out as soon as possible, a feeling most of us will probably have after a short time in school (and its just his first year, although I know that UIC's curriculum is different than most schools). In any case, like so many others have mentioned, I think we should get in and see how to actually practice dentistry, observe a few specialty areas (which we will have to do anyway) and then choose if its for us or not. I think a lot of people make these assumptions that they are going to specialize way before they know anything about the numerous fields of dentistry. On the other hand, you all can do what you want...I know when/if I get in....I am planning on just trying to survive. Being a GP has numerous advantages over specializing (ie you dont always have to rely on referrals).

 

[dprice121]

alright, point taken, but i still think most students have much much more exposure to general dentistry than to most specialties. if that doesn't apply to you then ignore me
i once heard an admissions officer say that loads of people come in saying they want to be pedodontists, but only 4-5 still want it when they leave. i am guessing this is true for many specialties.

I agree, *most* students probably do have much more exposure to general dentistry, but that's simply because *most* students probably plan on being general dentists. But for those who want or think that they want to specialize, it's not hard to gain the exposure necessary to make up your mind now. You DON'T have to wait until dental school to gain that exposure and decide what you want to do. That's all I was saying.

And as far as those students who change their minds, it's most likely because they didn't gain that exposure before deciding they wanted to specialize. They probably based their decisions on what they've heard, or on salary. And that's pretty stupid.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

alright, point taken, but i still think most students have much much more exposure to general dentistry than to most specialties. if that doesn't apply to you then ignore me
i once heard an admissions officer say that loads of people come in saying they want to be pedodontists, but only 4-5 still want it when they leave. i am guessing this is true for many specialties.

I think pedo is a bit different than the other specialities....people who want to become pedos know beforehand if they can handle working with children all day (at least i hope so)....there must be a reason for people wanting to go into it.....personally, Ive worked with children most of my life and I have always been able to handle all sorts of kids....from the 4 year old princesses, to the 6 year spawn of satans, to the 13 year old punks.....its never been a problem for me, basically because Im usually as immature as they are....

The point being is when I started dental school I went to the pediatric dept at my school and told them that I love working WITH children, but I need to know if I can work ON children...so for 2 months, I have been actively shadowing in my pedo dept. and at local pedo offices by my house....and what have I learned....exactly what I expected.....if you can tolerate screaming children and you have patience, than pedo is an excellent field, which pays extremely well, potential for huge growth, and its in high demand everywhere you go.....

The point of my post? To show that pedo is basically just a general dentist who works on children, so people who come to dental school, have exposure to only general dentistry like I did and none with pedo, but know they have a possible gift for pedo can safely assume that its a specialty that they should consider.

However, stuff like OMFS and Ortho are completely different than general dentistry, and god knows how 75% of my class already knows that they want to go into it

 

[ItsGavinC]

You don't have to go to dental school first in order to realize you want to specialize....although granted, many people probably change their minds once in dental school, but they are the ones who probably didn't gain enough exposure to the field first.

I don't think so. I'd say a LOT of people who change their mind in dental school still have a tremendous interest in a certain specialty, but they have come to realize that for them the time required to have a good application to match with that specialty isn't worth it. Remember, a general dentist can have a much nicer time during dental school when it comes to grades/board scores, and can still perform all the specialty they want, plus they don't have to devote future years to a specialty program. All of those factors are very enticing (trust me) and they have nothing to do with not gaining exposure to specialty fields.

Knowing you want to specialize prior to going to dental school isn't at all like knowing you want to be a dentist prior to going to dental school. In the latter case you are already working hard on earning good grades and obtaining a good DAT scores. In the former you haven't entered dental school and therefore have no idea of the required effort to be in the top of the class and get a high NBDE score.

 

[ItsGavinC]

And as far as those students who change their minds, it's most likely because they didn't gain that exposure before deciding they wanted to specialize.

No, they probably just realized they could be a GP and still do that specialty they love, while devoting 10+ hours less to studying each week in dental school, and not signing away 2-6 more years of their life to a specialty program.

 

[ItsGavinC]

I think pedo is a bit different than the other specialities....people who want to become pedos know beforehand if they can handle working with children all day (at least i hope so)....there must be a reason for people wanting to go into it.....personally, Ive worked with children most of my life and I have always been able to handle all sorts of kids....from the 4 year old princesses, to the 6 year spawn of satans, to the 13 year old punks.....its never been a problem for me, basically because Im usually as immature as they are....

Hanging out and getting along with the above types you mentioned is entirely different than prepping their teeth. Trust me.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

Hanging out and getting along with the above types you mentioned is entirely different than prepping their teeth. Trust me.

Im gonna have to disagree with the almighty Gavin here.....from the many pedodontists I have talked to in the last two months, they have all told me the exact same thing.....The actual practice of pediatric dentistry is the easiest thing in the world, such as tooth preps, extractions, etc.....the only hard part of the job is getting along with the kids, earning their trust, and having patience when the child is being difficult....but as far as the dental science of it....its pretty straightforward.....

 

[EHA DDS]

This is my question to Dr. Bad Vibes and Gavin:

Is there an appreciable increase in the incomes of pedodontists as compared to GP's? Cuz if they are making similar amounts, can;t you just be a GP, save the time specializing, and treat kids anyway?

 

[Biogirl361]

Im gonna have to disagree with the almighty Gavin here.....from the many pedodontists I have talked to in the last two months, they have all told me the exact same thing.....The actual practice of pediatric dentistry is the easiest thing in the world, such as tooth preps, extractions, etc.....the only hard part of the job is getting along with the kids, earning their trust, and having patience when the child is being difficult....but as far as the dental science of it....its pretty straightforward.....

i'm pretty sure what gavin meant was not that the dental science of it is hard... but that doing stuff in a kid's mouth is MUCH MUCH harder to deal with than hanging out or getting along with them. kids puking on you, trying to pull the handpiece out of their mouth while it's running, shaking and wriggling their head around while you are prepping, chomping on your fingers, kicking you in the head, and topping it off by telling mom you were mean and hurt them (after which mom angrily gives you the 3rd degree).
but if you can deal with that stuff every day and have it be worth it to you, more power to you, i say

 

[hockeydentist]

I thought the cardinal rule for pre dents, on being asked if they want to speacilize in dental school, is to act dumb, and state that they just want to get into dental school.

 

[v&andy_yankee]

do you even realize how tiny a kid's mouth is? how strong the gag reflex is?

dear lord, i think i'd have a heart attack just giving the kid a numbing shot, not to mention staying in their mouths and drilling.

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

i'm pretty sure what gavin meant was not that the dental science of it is hard... but that doing stuff in a kid's mouth is MUCH MUCH harder to deal with than hanging out or getting along with them. kids puking on you, trying to pull the handpiece out of their mouth while it's running, shaking and wriggling their head around while you are prepping, chomping on your fingers, kicking you in the head, and topping it off by telling mom you were mean and hurt them (after which mom angrily gives you the 3rd degree).
but if you can deal with that stuff every day and have it be worth it to you, more power to you, i say

Of course I know this, and thats why I said patience is key.....

You go into the kids mouth...kid doesnt cooperate, so you ask him to stay still.....try again, kid still doesnt cooperate, so you ask again.....try again, still nothing, so then you get stern and exert your authority....try again, still doesnt cooperate, so then you get the assistants such as myself to hold the kid down....

Of course there are other things that pedos have to deal with, as Biogirl mentioned, but Ive seen mostly all of the cases, and I see how the pedos handle them....and I can honestly say that I can do it.

Of course, I have to wait two years until Im the actual doctor working in their mouths, but the more I shadow now, the more prepared I will be in 2 years and there will be no surprises

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

dear lord, i think i'd have a heart attack just giving the kid a numbing shot, not to mention staying in their mouths and drilling.

Just curious, but wHy would you say that???

 

[Dr.BadVibes]

This is my question to Dr. Bad Vibes and Gavin:

Is there an appreciable increase in the incomes of pedodontists as compared to GP's? Cuz if they are making similar amounts, can;t you just be a GP, save the time specializing, and treat kids anyway?

An average pedodontist makes way more than the average GP, and there is a need for pedodontists virtually everywhere, so there are more options available.....

But its very interesting that you would say this, because I had this exact conversation with a GP yesterday.....

This GP advertises himself as a "pediatric care provider", because he loves working on children but is not a pedodontist....he told me the only diff b/w himself and a pedo is that the pedo has a certificate, can charge more to insurance companies because they are specialists, and they can buy into pediatric offices, whereas he cannot.

But Im assuming these laws vary from state to state in terms of advertising yourself as a "pediatric care provider".....because this is kinda a gray area....

My goal however is to avoid all of these loopholes and just get the certificate....its only 2 years and you get paid a stipend....it just sucks that this field is becoming more popular because people are beginning to recognize the growth potention in it....and its always traditionally one of the easier specialities to get into...

 

[EHA DDS]

Dr. Bad Vibes:

OK so pedodondists do make more since insurance companies recognize them as specialists.

As well, I was talking to a DDS graduate I met who is now specializing in peds and he told me that it used to be the "hidden gem" of dentistry, but is getting more popular now.

I think "geriodontics" is gonna boom, since the baby boomers are ahuge segment of the population.

 

[OzDDS]

Dr. Bad Vibes:
I think "geriodontics" is gonna boom, since the baby boomers are ahuge segment of the population.

prosth and perio.. are on the rise then.

 

[dprice121]

No, they probably just realized they could be a GP and still do that specialty they love, while devoting 10+ hours less to studying each week in dental school, and not signing away 2-6 more years of their life to a specialty program.

That's what many students tell themselves anyway...the ones that realize they probably don't have a shot at specializing. Whatever helps you sleep better at night.

But you're right...the other students who change their minds about specializing (other than those who didn't gain enough exposure to the field first) are those who realize they don't want to put forth the extra effort to become a specialist, or maybe aren't capable of doing well enough to have a chance no matter how hard they try.