whoever graduated 10 years ago with pharmd, how is your career now?

[PharmD or nursing]

Can you share your career path after graduation?
Who graduated around 10 years ago?l
If pharmd a good choice? How abouf 5 years later?
Thank you

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[mentos]

I graduated 5 years ago, I would say back then (if you started school around 2010) it was an okay choice but not today. The first 4 years were at CVS so it sucked. The first year was the easiest and then it got progressively worse after that. By year 4, I was doing double the amount of work as year 1 with less tech help. The raises/bonuses got smaller each year, and I don't think they even give them anymore. I was making more 5 years ago than new grads make today.

I'm at a LTC now and didn't get a raise after my first year. I heard new hires make much less than me just like with retail, so I don't expect to get a raise anytime soon.

pharmD is a terrible choice for 2019 and beyond.

 

[PharmD or nursing]

I graduated 5 years ago, I would say back then (if you started school around 2010) it was an okay choice but not today. The first 4 years were at CVS so it sucked. The first year was the easiest and then it got progressively worse after that. By year 4, I was doing double the amount of work as year 1 with less tech help. The raises/bonuses got smaller each year, and I don't think they even give them anymore. I was making more 5 years ago than new grads make today.

I'm at a LTC now and didn't get a raise after my first year. I heard new hires make much less than me just like with retail, so I don't expect to get a raise anytime soon.

pharmD is a terrible choice for 2019 and beyond.

Thank you for sharing
How about academic pathway. Fellowship or residency then assistant professor?

I am not interested in retail

 

[Hels2007]

I graduated a bit more than 10 years ago (2007) and I went into the industry. Pharmacy was a great choice for me, but if I were 18-20-22 again, I certainly wouldn't choose pharmacy. It's a very different world today vs. 1999 when I decided that I want to become a pharmacist. I think the last time I recommended pharmacy as a career option was 2009 or 2010... and by 2014-2015 it became outright ugly compared to 2002 when I first started working in a pharmacy.

 

[AM77]

Thank you for sharing
How about academic pathway. Fellowship or residency then assistant professor?

I am not interested in retail

If you’re not interested in retail, then Pharmacy is the wrong field for you. Most professor positions require a residency, and residency is extremely competitive to get into. I thought about going into academia or becoming a preceptor. But why would I contribute to opening up new pharmacy schools and adding more pharmacists to an already shrinking job market? Why do I want to aid the enemy of our profession? So forget that.
If you think residency is hard enough to get into, Fellowship is even worse. Residency and fellowship aren’t exactly pharmacist jobs. They’re basically another 1-2 years of training. By the time you’re done, you still need to look for a job.

 

[mentos]

Thank you for sharing
How about academic pathway. Fellowship or residency then assistant professor?

I am not interested in retail

IMO residencies are a scam. When I was on my internal med rotation back in 2014, one of the residents had a couple of months left and she didn't have a job lined up and didn't know what she would do. For my current position, I beat out people who did residencies. Also one of the new staff pharmacists here did a residency and was unemployed for a year before she got this job!

 

[rxdawg21]

IMO residencies are a scam. When I was on my internal med rotation back in 2014, one of the residents had a couple of months left and she didn't have a job lined up and didn't know what she would do. For my current position, I beat out people who did residencies. Also one of the new staff pharmacists here did a residency and was unemployed for a year before she got this job!

It is getting very hard to get a clinical job without a residency or said experience. It is getting hard to get a staff job without one except for mainly rural areas. I don’t agree with residencies but if you want clinical or hospital at this point they are a wise idea if no other options.

 

[rxdawg21]

I graduated a bit more than 10 years ago (2007) and I went into the industry. Pharmacy was a great choice for me, but if I were 18-20-22 again, I certainly wouldn't choose pharmacy. It's a very different world today vs. 1999 when I decided that I want to become a pharmacist. I think the last time I recommended pharmacy as a career option was 2009 or 2010... and by 2014-2015 it became outright ugly compared to 2002 when I first started working in a pharmacy.

This, I got in in 2009 and that was when it first started changing. I had worked in retail since I was 18 in 2007. By the time I was in my third year I wouldn’t have recommended new students. At this point ever since Kroger cut hours across the board 1-2 years ago, you are a fool to go unless some very special extenuating circumstances

 

[PharmD or nursing]

Thank you all for sharing your stories.
I am Canadian and I want to do pharmd 3 years program in us. The visa is a big problem I need to consider
Seems like it’s not a good idea for me to do it.
I am mom with 2 kids and in my late 30s already. I am currently unemployed (was a chemist )

 

[sozetone]

I graduated 2012 , was an assistant manager (staff pharm) for a grocery chain down south for 4 years. Was a bad experience. Quit, and took a manager job with WM out in CO in 2017. Then they started cutting their help to the bone......today, I am faced with being ousted by unreasonable goals and ,metrics which can cost you your job and always living on the precipice of failure. Absolutely no job security, very little tools to perform the job. in 2017 i told them i would fix this store up and make it great again. I did. a total 180. We are now 2nd highest in profit in my market, and currently meet some metrics......I dont for-see that lasting beyond a year (and thats being generous), so in the end I am faced with the dilemma of having to find an exit strategy.....This wont work much longer.

 

[rxkrafted]

Thank you all for sharing your stories.
I am Canadian and I want to do pharmd 3 years program in us. The visa is a big problem I need to consider
Seems like it’s not a good idea for me to do it.
I am mom with 2 kids and in my late 30s already. I am currently unemployed (was a chemist )

Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Pharmacists dispense prescription medications and provide information to patients about the drugs and their use.

www.bls.gov

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2009/11/art5full.pdf

Here are some statistics for your review. From 2008-2018, the outlook for pharmacist jobs was expected to grow 17%.. If you look at the latest update for the projection from 2018-2028, it is now at 0% growth rate. This is because they've been pumping out so many pharmacists from all the schools opening up and lowering standards for admission.

 

[PharmD or nursing]

Thank you for the information
So what is the better career now?
Very worried about my future. Maybe stay in chemistry would be a good choice

 

[rxdawg21]

Pharmacists : Occupational Outlook Handbook: : U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics

Pharmacists dispense prescription medications and provide information to patients about the drugs and their use.

www.bls.gov

https://www.bls.gov/opub/mlr/2009/11/art5full.pdf

Here are some statistics for your review. From 2008-2018, the outlook for pharmacist jobs was expected to grow 17%.. If you look at the latest update for the projection from 2018-2028, it is now at 0% growth rate. This is because they've been pumping out so many pharmacists from all the schools opening up and lowering standards for admission.

What was the actual growth over the last decade?

 

[lord999]

15 years two months ago. I have a different opinion that knowing what I know now, I still would choose pharmacy, that's because my parents were pharmacists as well, and have gone through the other horrible cycle in the late 1970s. Even then, I was under no illusions about my long-term employment prospects as a baseline pharmacist, so I continued to develop other skills (graduate school, then bureaucratic school, then industrial politics). If you continue to diversify your strengths and play the networking pyramid, even if you are out of luck, you are not out of friends. But unlike most who have Facebook type friends, I have real ones, and in the two times in my career where I was really hurting, they chipped in and rescued me. I won't forget it, and I do rescue my own friends for the same reasons. But this state resembles the late 1970s, I'm not afraid.

I do not believe that anyone who entered the labor market after 2000 can go an entire career without retraining at least once for anything requiring major credentials. Even nurses with their ADNs, have always been subject to physical injury as well as continual retraining for better practice. If you're not the type to take the initiative to learn (whether it is about a subject or the people around you), that lack of ambition closes off most end-state career fields.

 

[sozetone]

15 years two months ago. I have a different opinion that knowing what I know now, I still would choose pharmacy, that's because my parents were pharmacists as well, and have gone through the other horrible cycle in the late 1970s. Even then, I was under no illusions about my long-term employment prospects as a baseline pharmacist, so I continued to develop other skills (graduate school, then bureaucratic school, then industrial politics). If you continue to diversify your strengths and play the networking pyramid, even if you are out of luck, you are not out of friends. But unlike most who have Facebook type friends, I have real ones, and in the two times in my career where I was really hurting, they chipped in and rescued me. I won't forget it, and I do rescue my own friends for the same reasons. But this state resembles the late 1970s, I'm not afraid.

I do not believe that anyone who entered the labor market after 2000 can go an entire career without retraining at least once for anything requiring major credentials. Even nurses with their ADNs, have always been subject to physical injury as well as continual retraining for better practice. If you're not the type to take the initiative to learn (whether it is about a subject or the people around you), that lack of ambition closes off most end-state career fields.

 

[Hels2007]

Of course, if what you truly want to do is pharmacy it will always remain a viable option, no matter how ugly the labor market might be. After all, there is no shortage of people who get music and fine arts degrees. . But something tells me only a very small percentage of those who went into pharmacy in the last 20 years did it because they loved it.

Or maybe if you are prepared to put blood, sweat and tears into making it work out... but I personally prefer to have good odds of success if I am to put blood, sweat and tears into something. I fully satisfy my "underdog" side with the team I have been rooting for fifteen years (and no meaningful trophies), thank you very much.

 

[bazuka]

I graduated 2012 , was an assistant manager (staff pharm) for a grocery chain down south for 4 years. Was a bad experience. Quit, and took a manager job with WM out in CO in 2017. Then they started cutting their help to the bone......today, I am faced with being ousted by unreasonable goals and ,metrics which can cost you your job and always living on the precipice of failure. Absolutely no job security, very little tools to perform the job. in 2017 i told them i would fix this store up and make it great again. I did. a total 180. We are now 2nd highest in profit in my market, and currently meet some metrics......I dont for-see that lasting beyond a year (and thats being generous), so in the end I am faced with the dilemma of having to find an exit strategy.....This wont work much longer.

I hear you, I was with WM for over a decade. I began to see things to go down rapidly. Not there anymore now but I feel very insecure about my current retail job. I am trying to come up with a exit strategy myself, but I cannot figure it out where to go, residency? PA? Data Analyst? Industry? No experience there.

 

[wazoodog]

I graduated about 15 years ago and job market wise, it was pretty easy to find something. That's not to say it was easy to find a full-time store in a major metropolitan area - I took a job as floater which eventually (after a year or so) became part-time float/part-time permanent store. However, it was pretty much a given to get at least 40 hours a week (often more). Retail environment was more or less still the same as today, but metrics focused pretty much just on revenue, script count, and to a lesser extent generic conversions. Getting into hospital was hard but possible even without residency - especially if you had hospital intern experience which I did. I ended up going into industry which was difficult mostly because I didn't know where to start (which meant I kept putting it off). I didn't do a fellowship or residency and was pretty much blindly spraying applications online hoping someone would bite. It worked twice out of probably 30 tries and I bombed those first 2 interviews. Knowing what I know now, if I graduated today I would still get the PharmD but work on going into the industry earlier (maybe maximize my 1 industry rotation better so I could find something soon after graduation). At the same time, I would have keep retail as a back-up option to hold me over until I found something in industry.

I realize on the forum a lot of posters knock the current status of PharmD value based on the job market today. I'm not an authority on the overall pharmacy job market nationwide, I think getting a PharmD still has value depending on your personal motivations. If it's purely for its financial potential, I guess you can find better options for the time and cost (according to many posters here). But again, it depends on whether you're someone who can thrive in those other "options" - are you an entrepeneur? I definitely wasn't 15-20 years ago. If you have personal motivations for wanting a professional degree or whatever assumed prestige a PharmD means to your circle, then that's another valid motivation that you can't expect everyone other person to understand. Whether a PharmD is good for you - I would say to take the time to know yourself and why you think it's good for you. The job market probably isn't as good as it was 15 years ago, but there's still a market. Maybe you find intrinsic value in becoming a HCP, but think Med School is out of reach or too long. That's valid too. There are plenty of ways to make use of a PharmD besides the traditional pathways, and yes people will say that a PharmD isn't the most efficient way to do something non-traditional. I would say yes - they are right as long as you have a good idea which non-traditional path you want to pursue from the getgo.

 

[wreagle96]

Can you share your career path after graduation?
Who graduated around 10 years ago?l
If pharmd a good choice? How abouf 5 years later?
Thank you

Graduated 7 years ago. Just left field for a $14/hr job and am 1000x happier. Will never pay off student loans, but wont kill myself either so there's that

 

[mentos]

Graduated 7 years ago. Just left field for a $14/hr job and am 1000x happier. Will never pay off student loans, but wont kill myself either so there's that

Wow what job did you switch to?

 

[AM77]

I think my biggest pet peeve about pharmacy is the ridiculous amount of student loan debt that you end up with after you graduate. You have to live poor for many years if you want to pay it off ASAP. The return on investment can be very frustrating. My other pet peeve is when technicians think I’m “rich” just because I’m a pharmacist. What baloney. I even tell them, “Want my student loans?” They are absolutely clueless because they never went to college. Some of them live a far more lavish lifestyle than I do.

 

[JustFillIt]

Why not just work one day a week at a pharmacy? 8 hours a week at $60/hr equals about what you'll make working 40 a week @ $14/hr

This is a super good point....

 

[BidingMyTime]

I am not interested in retail

Over 65% of pharmacist jobs are in retail. Do not go into pharmacy if you do not want to be in retail, because statistically, retail will end up being where your only job offers come from. It's great to prefer hospital or teaching or whatnot, but if you aren't willing to do retail, then pharmacy is not for you.

I am Canadian and I want to do pharmd 3 years program in us. The visa is a big problem I need to consider
Seems like it’s not a good idea for me to do it.

Employers are no longer sponsoring work visa's for pharmacists. If you want to work in the US, you would have to get a visa other than a work visa (and then apply to be able to work, once you are here legally.) Unless you have family in the US or another reason why you want to move to the US, then I wouldn't count on being able to get here and work.

 

[nafcillin]

I’m around the 10 year mark. I do and don’t regret it depending on the day /

It has gotten markedly worse since graduating in 2007 even at my hospital. Med history metrics, more with less, bad culture, still turnover in this job market.

I ended up taking a risk and doing another career and it’s been a good move

So for me? It worked out. Would I do it with this knowledge? Nah

 

[bazuka]

I’m around the 10 year mark. I do and don’t regret it depending on the day /

It has gotten markedly worse since graduating in 2007 even at my hospital. Med history metrics, more with less, bad culture, still turnover in this job market.

I ended up taking a risk and doing another career and it’s been a good move

So for me? It worked out. Would I do it with this knowledge? Nah

Whats your new career?

 

[SF2]

Graduated 5 years ago. Through some ridiculous work hours I've managed to do the following:

2 years in retail
3 years in hospital
2 years in pharma

Pharma is by far the place to be.

Whether PharmD is a good choice is a tough question. The pay in pharma is definitely attractive, but once you get there you will always wonder whether you could have gotten more elsewhere.

If you are not a math person, then PharmD into industry is definitely very attractive. Otherwise, a BA in stats or computer science from an ivy league school will work wonders for you. Or even a BA in stats from a decent school into an MS computer science from a top school (you'll have to teach yourself to program during your BA) can be achieved in the same amount of time as a PharmD and opens a lot of doors.

 

[dmd20000]

I graduated in 2014 and I had $80k in loans total. I am a minimalist so 1 day of work pays for my total spending for the entire month. I save a lot working full time and going to move outside the US when I save more money. It doesn't cost a lot to retire these days in other countries.

 

[nickw2401]

I was able to get a staffing hospital job at a 600 bed hospital in the same city where I went to pharmacy school. I worked there as a tech full time while finishing my prereqs and then as an intern while in school. I worked A LOT during school while the other interns only worked every now and then when it didnt interfere with their partying. At the end of school I was offered a job and the 2 other interns in my class now work retail.

 

[gwarm01]

I realized fairly quickly that I don't really care for the actual practice of pharmacy, or healthcare in general. My scientific interests would have better been served with a PhD or MS in pharmacology, and my personality would thrive in the tech industry. Now I'm a little too old to restart, just staring at these golden handcuffs wondering how long it'll be before I saw my hand off.

I'm hoping to last another decade then evaluate my options.

 

[RxQueen2010]

I graduated around that time and did not do a residency. I started out in a small hospital, then went to home infusion/specialty, then population health/managed care/health plan-type roles. My current gig is work-from-home with a great salary, so I have no complaints!

 

[Argentium]

I finished my PharmD, did a fellowship, and entered industry after graduating. Got another degree along the way.

Have progressed well since graduating and can't complain at all - the work is super interesting and different every day; the flexibility and work-life balance is good on the whole; the compensation is excellent; and I feel like I have pretty good job security either at my current company or elsewhere.

The PharmD worked out really well for me from a ROI perspective and if I could "do it over," not sure I would do anything different - but I do recognize that I'm one of the lucky ones

 

[Lubeckd]

I realized fairly quickly that I don't really care for the actual practice of pharmacy, or healthcare in general. My scientific interests would have better been served with a PhD or MS in pharmacology, and my personality would thrive in the tech industry. Now I'm a little too old to restart, just staring at these golden handcuffs wondering how long it'll be before I saw my hand off.

I'm hoping to last another decade then evaluate my options.

I just broke from the golden handcuffs. I'm 31

 

[Lubeckd]

I’m around the 10 year mark. I do and don’t regret it depending on the day /

It has gotten markedly worse since graduating in 2007 even at my hospital. Med history metrics, more with less, bad culture, still turnover in this job market.

I ended up taking a risk and doing another career and it’s been a good move

So for me? It worked out. Would I do it with this knowledge? Nah

I'm at 4 year mark and changing fields

 

[jecpharm89]

I'm at 4 year mark and changing fields

What are you changing to? I’m thinking about doing the same

 

[TranslationalRPh]

Graduated about 15 years ago. Did 6 years retail (very easy to get a job back then), did ambulatory care for 4 years, hospital 2 years, and industry for over 8. Yes, there was overlap prior to industry. Enjoyed it all but knew that I didn't have the temperament for retail long-term. Honestly, I actually prefer PK than clinical, so I also went to graduate school immediately upon graduation. I don't regret pharmacy in the slightest. However, it used to be a lot cheaper with better career prospects. I can't say that I would still go this path today, given the current economics. I struggle to see why I wouldn't pursue a different advanced degree with more autonomy and greater reward.

 

[bacillus1]

Graduated 7 years ago, with PGY1 thereafter.
Definitely felt the impact of the job market when residency was over, and still feeling it now. Couldn't find any jobs near me, and did not want to move rural, so moved across the country for a job in California. That place was very poorly run and very stressful so I traded it for a unicorn job with a great schedule in a less desirable area back east. Been here for 3.5 years. Now looking again, and people are either only hiring internal applicants or people with PGY2s, or don't offer enough compensation. But at least I have a secure federal job and don't have to work nights, weekends, etc, so I can afford to be picky.

 

[Alexis_pharmD]

got license in 2012. It was not that easy to find a full time job in a nice neighborhood (retail store) even at that time. I worked almost 60-65 hours every week as I knew those hours won't exist in future. And I was correct, The company I was working for, was paying OT, Mileage and double holiday Pay at that time. I almost made double of my salary for first 4 years. (Thank God). Now I am married and have a kid, and luckily find a job at hospital outpatient. Now planning to change field as soon as I can. Because I kind a sense that in next five years it will be even worst. I don't have any contacts in industry so can't think that route. Want to do BCPS but still it's hard to find time to even study for it. Yes, pharmacy gave me quick financial stability but still I wouldn't recommended it to anyone as there is no long term future.

 

[rxdawg21]

got license in 2012. It was not that easy to find a full time job in a nice neighborhood (retail store) even at that time. I worked almost 60-65 hours every week as I knew those hours won't exist in future. And I was correct, The company I was working for, was paying OT, Mileage and double holiday Pay at that time. I almost made double of my salary for first 4 years. (Thank God). Now I am married and have a kid, and luckily find a job at hospital outpatient. Now planning to change field as soon as I can. Because I kind a sense that in next five years it will be even worst. I don't have any contacts in industry so can't think that route. Want to do BCPS but still it's hard to find time to even study for it. Yes, pharmacy gave me quick financial stability but still I wouldn't recommended it to anyone as there is no long term future.

What part of the country are you from? I worked for wags in 2013 grad year and within 4 months they cut ot pay from 20 to 10 an hour. In addition, I had to drive to another district for ot. The first 6 weeks I was pulling double salary but quit picking up shifts after the change and being placed in a busy store

 

[Singuy]

Graduated in 2007, worked at Target for 10 months then switched to hospital inpatient without residency. Stayed inpatient ever since and have zero desire for administrator positions. The job I have is pretty awesome overall. Level one trauma center, stroke center, and a teaching hospital of over 800 beds. Pretty much did everything here, from being an ED pharmacist one day to being the OR pharmacist the next. Perhaps the most any pharmacy student could ever hope for.

With that being said, I actually don't believe in my line of work months into it. I feel like any good software can easily take my job away and I bring little actual value to the health profession as a whole(and this is from someone who help with intubation, codes, surgery, TPNs..you name it, I've done it).

The reason is that other people can do your job pretty easily, while a computer software can do the rest. I never felt like I was the only one in the room who knows how to prepare RSI drugs because all the nurses are as competent as I am at it. I soon realized any country that employs a pharmacist should understand that there's a high diminishing rate of return for our service. The amount of errors we prevent/save on cost has a very high expense that many Asian countries utilize high school students to do our job and have similar mortality rates. So yes, I feel like our profession are like speakers that cost 100k. Sounds great, but hard to tell the difference vs speakers that cost 10k, or speakers that cost 1k.

Anyways, I am fully prepared for the pharmacy apocalypse when something like universal health care reduce our salary to European levels(meaning 45k/year). Saved and invested myself..our family is financially independent. Looking forward to that early retirement anyways.

 

[JustFillIt]

Graduated in 2007, worked at Target for 10 months then switched to hospital inpatient without residency. Stayed inpatient ever since and have zero desire for administrator positions. The job I have is pretty awesome overall. Level one trauma center, stroke center, and a teaching hospital of over 800 beds. Pretty much did everything here, from being an ED pharmacist one day to being the OR pharmacist the next. Perhaps the most any pharmacy student could ever hope for.

With that being said, I actually don't believe in my line of work months into it. I feel like any good software can easily take my job away and I bring little actual value to the health profession as a whole(and this is from someone who help with intubation, codes, surgery, TPNs..you name it, I've done it).

The reason is that other people can do your job pretty easily, while a computer software can do the rest. I never felt like I was the only one in the room who knows how to prepare RSI drugs because all the nurses are as competent as I am at it. I soon realized any country that employs a pharmacist should understand that there's a high diminishing rate of return for our service. The amount of errors we prevent/save on cost has a very high expense that many Asian countries utilize high school students to do our job and have similar mortality rates. So yes, I feel like our profession are like speakers that cost 100k. Sounds great, but hard to tell the difference vs speakers that cost 10k, or speakers that cost 1k.

Anyways, I am fully prepared for the pharmacy apocalypse when something like universal health care reduce our salary to European levels(meaning 45k/year). Saved and invested myself..our family is financially independent. Looking forward to that early retirement anyways.

So stop being a boob about it and airing your dirty laundry. You got an easy job? Sweet dude - the longer you can keep that under wraps the better

 

[Singuy]

So stop being a boob about it and airing your dirty laundry. You got an easy job? Sweet dude - the longer you can keep that under wraps the better

Never said I got an easy job. I don't know how many pharmacist you know would want to be in the trauma room giving recommendations in real time while pulling and mixing drugs, setting rates and sometime even administering drugs to the pt. It's actually beyond the scope of what most pharmacist get to do.

But Pharmacy the profession itself is not complex compared to any other health profession. Our board exam take 2 hrs to complete while my wife who is an OD had a 3 day long board exam. This is why I feel like this profession is BS and see merits of it being half the salary.

 

[JustFillIt]

Never said I got an easy job. I don't know how many pharmacist you know would want to be in the trauma room giving recommendations in real time while pulling and mixing drugs, setting rates and sometime even administering drugs to the pt. It's actually beyond the scope of what most pharmacist get to do.

But Pharmacy the profession itself is not complex compared to any other health profession. Our board exam take 2 hrs to complete while my wife who is an OD had a 3 day long board exam. This is why I feel like this profession is BS and see merits of it being half the salary.

Ok - well your first paragraph there is much better. I would recommend to describe your job like that - makes you should much more valuable (even though you have clearly decided you are not).

As for the salary - a very important piece that is often overlooked is the simple concept of dispensing medication. The dispensing of medication (both in hospital and in community pharmacy) to the naive public should be a function that is managed by a professional. Any way you cut it a pharmacist is a professional with a professional salary. Take the salary away and you will loose the professionals and the dispensing of medications will be left in the hands of unskilled labor. This will create a public health crisis.

And I reject the concept of computers doing it for us. Just don’t see that happening in our time.

 

[Singuy]

Ok - well your first paragraph there is much better. I would recommend to describe your job like that - makes you should much more valuable (even though you have clearly decided you are not).

As for the salary - a very important piece that is often overlooked is the simple concept of dispensing medication. The dispensing of medication (both in hospital and in community pharmacy) to the naive public should be a function that is managed by a professional. Any way you cut it a pharmacist is a professional with a professional salary. Take the salary away and you will loose the professionals and the dispensing of medications will be left in the hands of unskilled labor. This will create a public health crisis.

And I reject the concept of computers doing it for us. Just don’t see that happening in our time.

I certainly don't see the public health crisis in countries that use unskilled labors to dispense meds (pretty much every Asian country). It cost 31 billion dollars/year to employ pharmacist. If you want universal health care and always point to European nations for spending half of what we spend and receive better health care, then you cut this number in half. So pharmacist making 45k/year in Europe are not causing any health crisis.

And if this profession disappears, perhaps the MD will be more vigilant vs being half assed today. And maybe they can spend 31 billion dollars and give MDs an additional year of pharmacology since they are the ones who are doing the prescribing. I see that saving more lives than employing pharmacist.

 

[JustFillIt]

I certainly don't see the public health crisis in countries that use unskilled labors to dispense meds (pretty much every Asian country). It cost 31 billion dollars/year to employ pharmacist. If you want universal health care and always point to European nations for spending half of what we spend and receive better health care, then you cut this number in half. So pharmacist making 45k/year in Europe are not causing any health crisis.

And if this profession disappears, perhaps the MD will be more vigilant vs being half assed today. And maybe they can spend 31 billion dollars and give MDs an additional year of pharmacology since they are the ones who are doing the prescribing. I see that saving more lives than employing pharmacist.

Ok well.. I think it’s a pretty sh**** thing to do to stand there and badmouth your own profession, your own peers, and your own friends (I dunno maybe you don’t have many friends) by saying “we provide no more value than a high school student in Asia. And now that I have a padded bank account and a sugar momma, this is your problem not mine. Peace out, I don’t care if pharmacy implodes”.

Give me a break.

 

[gwarm01]

Anecdotal story, but I spent some time in Asia and heard horror stories from a pharmacy association over there. The culture was such that you didn't question a physician's orders, which led to several situations where a pharmacist dispensed a medication that they knew would harm a patient, including at least one situation where a patient had died. Like I said, anecdotal, but I feel like we often downplay our knowledge and role in healthcare and overestimate the knowledge of others.

 

[MilknCheerios]

I like hearing everyone's perspectives, and even though I haven't been in pharmacy for 10+ years, I thought I'd share some of my own.

I've been a staff pharmacist for 6 years with the same chain pharmacy that hired me when I graduated. I'm currently in a small Midwest town. My career path is simple and straight forward. I wanted to stay in the Midwest and the chain found a spot for me. I floated for only a few months and when I staffed, I racked up 40+ hours/week for a few years. Then, when I got married, 40 hours became the new norm. I have a feeling <40 will be the new norm as more and more cuts happen in the retail sector, but so far, life's been grand. I've traveled, got the vacation coverage whenever I needed, and paid off the student loans, house, car, and then some.

While I wouldn't encourage more people into pharmacy due to the lack of role expansion, the profession and even the chain has treated me well thus far. Metrics can be challenging, but with proper training, team member contribution, and managing, the most important ones can be achieved. While there may not be bonuses for meeting those goals anymore, it certainly helps with getting corporate off your back and is a nice morale booster.

For those that still have a passion for pharmacy, don't let the gloom n' doom get you down. Network, find a niche, be flexible, and develop yourself into the best pharmacist you can be. There will be a spot for someone that is constantly learning and growing.

 

[JustFillIt]

I like hearing everyone's perspectives, and even though I haven't been in pharmacy for 10+ years, I thought I'd share some of my own.

I've been a staff pharmacist for 6 years with the same chain pharmacy that hired me when I graduated. I'm currently in a small Midwest town. My career path is simple and straight forward. I wanted to stay in the Midwest and the chain found a spot for me. I floated for only a few months and when I staffed, I racked up 40+ hours/week for a few years. Then, when I got married, 40 hours became the new norm. I have a feeling <40 will be the new norm as more and more cuts happen in the retail sector, but so far, life's been grand. I've traveled, got the vacation coverage whenever I needed, and paid off the student loans, house, car, and then some.

While I wouldn't encourage more people into pharmacy due to the lack of role expansion, the profession and even the chain has treated me well thus far. Metrics can be challenging, but with proper training, team member contribution, and managing, the most important ones can be achieved. While there may not be bonuses for meeting those goals anymore, it certainly helps with getting corporate off your back and is a nice morale booster.

For those that still have a passion for pharmacy, don't let the gloom n' doom get you down. Network, find a niche, be flexible, and develop yourself into the best pharmacist you can be. There will be a spot for someone that is constantly learning and growing.

This is great - my experience has been very similar to this. I couldn’t have said that better. However I did loose my job to company closure and had to find a new job. My new job has opened a whole new world of opportunity and I am loving every day of it.

 

[Singuy]

Ok well.. I think it’s a pretty sh**** thing to do to stand there and badmouth your own profession, your own peers, and your own friends (I dunno maybe you don’t have many friends) by saying “we provide no more value than a high school student in Asia. And now that I have a padded bank account and a sugar momma, this is your problem not mine. Peace out, I don’t care if pharmacy implodes”.

Give me a break.

Perhaps you are only understanding half of what I wrote. From my original post, I felt our profession was BS just months out of school in retail. That day one when a tech with years of experience can run circles around you running the pharmacy while you do nothing but check ndc numbers all day already tells me this profession can be done with little education. Then you add all the customers who come up to you and tell you how you are a glorified cashier really drives that message home. Or how about we can't make one profession medical judgement by ourselves and need to get permission for every little stupid thing like changing a tablet to a liquid on the fly in retail if a pt prefers one form over another. I find it funny that some rph think they have won the jackpot when they find that one job that allows them to dose an antibiotic without a phone call. Why are we even around if our 4 years of professional school can't even trust us to do simple things like that? More medical power is given to a highschool student in China than us "professionals".

So I prepared myself way before I even met my wife..who came out with almost 200k of student loans may I add. And I see her profession going away thanks to AI imaging as well. Study pilots using AI to diagnose pneumonia is already beating MDs, and eventually insurance companies will refuse coverage IF you are NOT using AI.

Technology already displaced 20% of our pharmacy staff already in my hospital so I don't know why people think our profession is going to be awesome going forward. Many different things are attacking this high dimenshing return of a profession from universal health care to effective dispensing system. Our hospital is already using a gigantic vending machine so what to stop Redbox pharmacy displacing Walgreens.

 

[Alexis_pharmD]

What part of the country are you from? I worked for wags in 2013 grad year and within 4 months they cut ot pay from 20 to 10 an hour. In addition, I had to drive to another district for ot. The first 6 weeks I was pulling double salary but quit picking up shifts after the change and being placed in a busy store

Midwest!! I did travel hours for extra shifts. Sometimes 70-80 miles one way. But as I said they were paying mileage+OT so it was worth it. I worked way too much for first 4 years coz I knew everything will be gone. And I was single at time. Somedays I just came home, eat, sleep and start driving next morning. It was tough and I don't even know how I did it. But I am glad now that I did it as the same company cut down store hours now. and of course no OT pay anymore.
I know walgreens cut down OT pay around 2013. And I knew it will come to all retail stores soon. That's why I tried to get as much as I can until it lasted.

 

[Lubeckd]

Graduated in 2007, worked at Target for 10 months then switched to hospital inpatient without residency. Stayed inpatient ever since and have zero desire for administrator positions. The job I have is pretty awesome overall. Level one trauma center, stroke center, and a teaching hospital of over 800 beds. Pretty much did everything here, from being an ED pharmacist one day to being the OR pharmacist the next. Perhaps the most any pharmacy student could ever hope for.

With that being said, I actually don't believe in my line of work months into it. I feel like any good software can easily take my job away and I bring little actual value to the health profession as a whole(and this is from someone who help with intubation, codes, surgery, TPNs..you name it, I've done it).

The reason is that other people can do your job pretty easily, while a computer software can do the rest. I never felt like I was the only one in the room who knows how to prepare RSI drugs because all the nurses are as competent as I am at it. I soon realized any country that employs a pharmacist should understand that there's a high diminishing rate of return for our service. The amount of errors we prevent/save on cost has a very high expense that many Asian countries utilize high school students to do our job and have similar mortality rates. So yes, I feel like our profession are like speakers that cost 100k. Sounds great, but hard to tell the difference vs speakers that cost 10k, or speakers that cost 1k.

Anyways, I am fully prepared for the pharmacy apocalypse when something like universal health care reduce our salary to European levels(meaning 45k/year). Saved and invested myself..our family is financially independent. Looking forward to that early retirement anyways.

H

Ok well.. I think it’s a pretty sh**** thing to do to stand there and badmouth your own profession, your own peers, and your own friends (I dunno maybe you don’t have many friends) by saying “we provide no more value than a high school student in Asia. And now that I have a padded bank account and a sugar momma, this is your problem not mine. Peace out, I don’t care if pharmacy implodes”.

Give me a break.

lol I would defend the profession but people here don't. So peace out, I peaced out two weeks ago from pharmacy