Whoot! Whoot! Cathopathic Physicians To Be Equal To DOs and MDs

[2021Doctor]

The American College of Cathopathic Physicians (ACCP) is an organization comprised of doctors (DNPs: Doctors of Nursing Practice) and nurses with the goal of creating a pathway to physician-level practice for qualified nurses and nurse practitioners, in order to further promote the well-being of our patients through increased access to care.

The purpose of the ACCP is to protect the professional autonomy and advocate for a full, broad scope of practice for DNPs as a "cathopathic physician" completely equal in every way to our MD and DO counterparts. The ACCP is tasked with establishing policies, a code of conduct and professional ethics, as well as determining what educational standards are necessary to produce qualified cathopathic physicians and the accreditation of DNP programs to achieve that end. Of equal importance to the profession is the role of the ACCP to lobby for and help establish state licensure and interstate reciprocity, ideally as liaisons in conjunction with individual state Boards of Nursing but potentially working separate from them on the state and national level if necessary.

accp

Osteopaths struggled for decades to establish their right to practice independently as physicians. Much of the difficulty osteopathic physicians faced came from attempting to license themselves through state-based allopathic medical associations, who discounted their training and experience in order to obstruct their expansion. Eventually they won their right to do so and proved that MDs do not own the title "physician". All any school of knowledge actually owns, be it MDs, DOs, naturopaths, or DNPs, is their own philosophy. Each group has the right to practice as "physicians" in their own individual fields. As a group, cathopathic physicians can learn from the experiences of osteopathic physicians in order to gain their own independent practice authority. Cathopathic physicians should expect the same, or based on the idea that NPs traditionally work "for" physicians, perhaps even more adversity than their DO counterparts. Ultimately, osteopathic physicians developed their own professional association, which finally provided them with the tools and support they needed to advance to full and equal practice authority. To this end, we have formed the ACCP, the American College of Cathopathic Physicians (www.cathopathic.org), an organization with free membership open to all.

accp

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[GypsyHummus]

Why Cathopatic?

I have no problem with DPNs being physicians if they go through the equivalent level of schooling MD/DOs go through. If they think it’s gonna be overnight, they are mistaken. DPMs have been around for 50+ years and are just now standardizing their education, some even taking the same classes right next to the DO class, and being accepted into the medical community as physicians.

So yeah, I’m all for NPs or whoever having those privileges if they: do 4 rigourus years of Nursing school then a 3 year residency in primary care.

 

[harvey1222]

Catheterpathic*

 

[Carbon090]

Ugh

 

[frosted2]

Catheterpathic*

 

[EmilKraepelin55]

I'm fine with NP's being called physicians for the most part if their training measures up to other physicians, but naturopaths? Even though a few states recognize them as "physicians" by title, they in no way represent merely a "different philosophy" of practice. It's a deeper, more fundamental gap in knowledge of actual medical science that differentiates them from MD/DO, NP, DPM's or otherwise.

 

[DrfluffyMD]

All for it if they take step 1, use mcat for admission, have 4 years of undergrad med training and 3-7 yrs of GME.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

This is a strong reason for why we should unify the degrees. Only one pathway to become a physician.

 

[IsWhat]

American medicine is a complete mess and it’s only getting worse. We are basically the only country with true midlevel providers, and therefore the only country with non-physicians lobbying to become physicians. An older generation of doctors sold us out for a bit of extra profit and now we are left to deal with the ramifications. Oh, and we are also one of only a handful of countries with multiple physician degrees...

 

[DrfluffyMD]

American medicine is a complete mess and it’s only getting worse. We are basically the only country with true midlevel providers, and therefore the only country with non-physicians lobbying to become physicians. An older generation of doctors sold us out for a bit of extra profit and now we are left to deal with the ramifications. Oh, and we are also one of only a handful of countries with multiple physician degrees...

This is why I think the DO degree needs to go and all DO schools converted to MD with another degree in osteopathy.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

This is why I think the DO degree needs to go and all DO schools converted to MD with another degree in osteopathy.

Hell let’s take it a step further and just have OMM taught in residency as an elective and have it simply a certification. No need for OMM to be part of undergraduate medical education honestly, not when only a select few will ever use it.

 

[JustPlainBill]

The American College of Cathopathic Physicians (ACCP) is an organization comprised of doctors (DNPs: Doctors of Nursing Practice) and nurses with the goal of creating a pathway to physician-level practice for qualified nurses and nurse practitioners, in order to further promote the well-being of our patients through increased access to care.

The purpose of the ACCP is to protect the professional autonomy and advocate for a full, broad scope of practice for DNPs as a "cathopathic physician" completely equal in every way to our MD and DO counterparts. The ACCP is tasked with establishing policies, a code of conduct and professional ethics, as well as determining what educational standards are necessary to produce qualified cathopathic physicians and the accreditation of DNP programs to achieve that end. Of equal importance to the profession is the role of the ACCP to lobby for and help establish state licensure and interstate reciprocity, ideally as liaisons in conjunction with individual state Boards of Nursing but potentially working separate from them on the state and national level if necessary.

accp

Osteopaths struggled for decades to establish their right to practice independently as physicians. Much of the difficulty osteopathic physicians faced came from attempting to license themselves through state-based allopathic medical associations, who discounted their training and experience in order to obstruct their expansion. Eventually they won their right to do so and proved that MDs do not own the title "physician". All any school of knowledge actually owns, be it MDs, DOs, naturopaths, or DNPs, is their own philosophy. Each group has the right to practice as "physicians" in their own individual fields. As a group, cathopathic physicians can learn from the experiences of osteopathic physicians in order to gain their own independent practice authority. Cathopathic physicians should expect the same, or based on the idea that NPs traditionally work "for" physicians, perhaps even more adversity than their DO counterparts. Ultimately, osteopathic physicians developed their own professional association, which finally provided them with the tools and support they needed to advance to full and equal practice authority. To this end, we have formed the ACCP, the American College of Cathopathic Physicians (www.cathopathic.org), an organization with free membership open to all.

accp

The pathway to physician-level practice already exists -- it's called medical school and residency.....

and, by the way, until you earn an MD/DO degree, successfully complete a residency and become board certified, you are in no way my counterpart.....

 

[68PGunner]

Hell let’s take it a step further and just have OMM taught in residency as an elective and have it simply a certification. No need for OMM to be part of undergraduate medical education honestly, not when only a select few will ever use it.

AOA will never agree to it bc it means an end to OMM.

But, we’re slowly hitting a point where there will be a unification of the DO/MD degree in 10-15 years.

 

[68PGunner]

This is why I think the DO degree needs to go and all DO schools converted to MD with another degree in osteopathy.

I’m all for it considering that most DO students from now on will be doing an ACGME residency and take both the USMLE Step 1 and 2.

 

[Postictal Raiden]

I’m all for it considering that most DO students from now on will be doing an ACGME residency and take both the USMLE Step 1 and 2.

It’s the best way to protect the profession from all these -pathics. I’m all for it and I’m certain that most DOs are.

 

[deleted859535]

The pathway to physician-level practice already exists -- it's called medical school and residency.....

and, by the way, until you earn an MD/DO degree, successfully complete a residency and become board certified, you are in no way my counterpart.....

This, period. The rest is bull****.

 

[DO2015CA]

AOA will never agree to it bc it means an end to OMM.

But, we’re slowly hitting a point where there will be a unification of the DO/MD degree in 10-15 years.

Just curious. What makes you think this? I haven’t heard any talk toward this, and actually have heard talk against it with the mentality of more DOs good because they can’t be pushed out. Is it going to be another ‘69 takeover where they pay $25 to convert their degree.

 

[Goro]

Just curious. What makes you think this? I haven’t heard any talk toward this, and actually have heard talk against it with the mentality of more DOs good because they can’t be pushed out. Is it going to be another ‘69 takeover where they pay $25 to convert their degree.

Wishful thinking and nothing more.

 

[zero0]

AOA will never agree to it bc it means an end to OMM.

But, we’re slowly hitting a point where there will be a unification of the DO/MD degree in 10-15 years.

Luckily the AOA won't exist in 10 or so years. Doubt DO ACGME grads will feel like shelling out an extra couple thousand a year for a symbolic gesture i.e. AOA certification.

 

[IsWhat]

Just curious. What makes you think this? I haven’t heard any talk toward this, and actually have heard talk against it with the mentality of more DOs good because they can’t be pushed out. Is it going to be another ‘69 takeover where they pay $25 to convert their degree.

The DO degree would have a better chance of surviving the post GME merger by decreasing school expansion and increasing program quality. I don’t understand why DO leadership is pushing school expansion - it gives MD leadership a politically favorable reason to bring down the hammer when MD match rates inevitably take a hit. It’s probably the worst strategy they could employ right now.

 

[Aspiring O]

it gives MD leadership a politically favorable reason to bring down the hammer when MD match rates inevitably take a hit. It’s probably the worst strategy they could employ right now.

What do you mean by bring down the hammer? make their residency positions harder for DOs to get?

 

[DO2015CA]

The DO degree would have a better chance of surviving the post GME merger by decreasing school expansion and increasing program quality. I don’t understand why DO leadership is pushing school expansion - it gives MD leadership a politically favorable reason to bring down the hammer when MD match rates inevitably take a hit. It’s probably the worst strategy they could employ right now.

I can see an inevitable track over by LCME but I don’t see the transition to only MD conferring colleges

 

[GypsyHummus]

Because more DOs=more free advertisement. It’s actually better than free advertisement, the students are paying the school lol.

Everyone now knows what a DO is. They didn’t 10 years ago.

The DO degree would have a better chance of surviving the post GME merger by decreasing school expansion and increasing program quality. I don’t understand why DO leadership is pushing school expansion - it gives MD leadership a politically favorable reason to bring down the hammer when MD match rates inevitably take a hit. It’s probably the worst strategy they could employ right now.

 

[IsWhat]

What do you mean by bring down the hammer? make their residency positions harder for DOs to get?

There are a spectrum of things the LCME could do - like prohibiting DO students from rotating at LCME University hospitals or pushing to absorb COCA altogether. Basically, they have the power to significantly reduce the quality of DO clinical education given how many DO students rely on LCME electives for quality inpatient rotations during their clinical years (The U of Colorado openly states this as a reason why they require DO students to pay $5,000 for a rotation with them - they know many DO schools pawn off clinical education to MD institutions).

 

[Drrrrrr. Celty]

American medicine is a complete mess and it’s only getting worse. We are basically the only country with true midlevel providers, and therefore the only country with non-physicians lobbying to become physicians. An older generation of doctors sold us out for a bit of extra profit and now we are left to deal with the ramifications. Oh, and we are also one of only a handful of countries with multiple physician degrees...

I'm going to say something unpopular on this forum. But we honestly have as a profession and in the way we legislate shot ourselves in the foots hard. Training physicians in this country is convoluted, extremely expensive, recruits the wrong types of people,and takes almost double what it takes other countries with honestly more than adequate healthcare systems.

We simply don't make enough doctors for even urban areas let alone for minor metro areas. And this is with a large proportion of people entirely avoiding seeing physicians of any form.

I truly believe that part of the solution is condensing training along with increasing funding for new residencies. Ex family med residency down to two years, med school down to three years, etc.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

There are a spectrum of things the LCME could do - like prohibiting DO students from rotating at LCME University hospitals or pushing to absorb COCA altogether. Basically, they have the power to significantly reduce the quality of DO clinical education given how many DO students rely on LCME electives for quality inpatient rotations during their clinical years (The U of Colorado openly states this as a reason why they require DO students to pay $5,000 for a rotation with them - they know many DO schools pawn off clinical education to MD institutions).

I really don't think the LCME gives a rats fart what COCA does or what DO schools do. There will never be a LCME takeover like you're describing because they literally have no reason to even be bothered and LCME doesn't have the type of power to say, "you can't let DOs rotate at your university hospital." They simply don't wield that sword. What will most likely happen is that someone in the government will look around and go, "so why do we fund two separate accreditation bodies to accredit 2 types of medical schools that essentially do the same thing and produce the same product?" and then poof goes COCA and LCME will be handed the keys.

Ironically ACGME was the body that carried that sword and all they had to do was mandate that to apply to their residencies as a US grad you had to graduate from an LCME accredited school and DO students would have been left out in the cold. They gave that power up when they gave the AOA a good chunk of representation on their board.

 

[DO2015CA]

I really don't think the LCME gives a rats fart what COCA does or what DO schools do. There will never be a LCME takeover like you're describing because they literally have no reason to even be bothered and LCME doesn't have the type of power to say, "you can't let DOs rotate at your university hospital." They simply don't wield that sword. What will most likely happen is that someone in the government will look around and go, "so why do we fund two separate accreditation bodies to accredit 2 types of medical schools that essentially do the same thing and produce the same product?" and then poof goes COCA and LCME will be handed the keys.

Ironically ACGME was the body that carried that sword and all they had to do was mandate that to apply to their residencies as a US grad you had to graduate from an LCME accredited school and DO students would have been left out in the cold. They gave that power up when they gave the AOA a good chunk of representation on their board.

But if they mandated that then they kicked out bad ass FMG. So it never would’ve happened

 

[IsWhat]

I really don't think the LCME gives a rats fart what COCA does or what DO schools do. There will never be a LCME takeover like you're describing because they literally have no reason to even be bothered and LCME doesn't have the type of power to say, "you can't let DOs rotate at your university hospital." They simply don't wield that sword. What will most likely happen is that someone in the government will look around and go, "so why do we fund two separate accreditation bodies to accredit 2 types of medical schools that essentially do the same thing and produce the same product?" and then poof goes COCA and LCME will be handed the keys.

Ironically ACGME was the body that carried that sword and all they had to do was mandate that to apply to their residencies as a US grad you had to graduate from an LCME accredited school and DO students would have been left out in the cold. They gave that power up when they gave the AOA a good chunk of representation on their board.

They will if DO school expansion starts to effect MD match percentages.

I also don’t disagree with you that the LCME doesn’t necessarily hold the keys to just “takeover”. It will be a political push like you described, and the LCMEs lobbying power is significantly greater than COCAs.

 

[zero0]

They will if DO school expansion starts to effect MD match percentages.

I also don’t disagree with you that the LCME doesn’t necessarily hold the keys to just “takeover”. It will be a political push like you described, and the LCMEs lobbying power is significantly greater than COCAs.

I just don't see MD school match rates taking a hit anytime soon, not long before DO schools match rates go down the toilet, which doesn't seem close to happening either as there are still plenty of spots to go around. Despite all the end is near talk, match rates for both MD and DO schools are as good as ever.

The main point of outrage I'm already noticing concerning the world after 2020 is that DOs will be all but locked out of the most competitive specialties. That will eventually grind their gears and they will likely push for COCA to make changes to clinical education that will address the DO inequality, since that's where our training faces the greatest scrutiny. COCA can then either make said changes, which would either be very gradual, as we're seeing with the new rotation requirements where one rotation has to be with residents, or they'll hand the keys over to the LCME (highly unlikely).

 

[68PGunner]

Just curious. What makes you think this? I haven’t heard any talk toward this, and actually have heard talk against it with the mentality of more DOs good because they can’t be pushed out. Is it going to be another ‘69 takeover where they pay $25 to convert their degree.

Actually, I personally believe that the new push for unification will not be from current leadership, but from discontent from DOs who are still in school about facing bias in fellowship and non-primary care specialties despite graduating from ACGME residencies and taking the same MD tests.

AOA leadership thinks that more DOs are good, but the reality is that the majority of DOs being trained at schools nowadays don’t give a crap about the distinction. The majority of us would rather have unification that allows the application process for both residencies and fellowships to be 100% on merits rather than folk lore myths.

 

[zero0]

Actually, I personally believe that the new push for unification will not be from current leadership, but from discontent from DOs who are still in school about facing bias in fellowship and non-primary care specialties despite graduating from ACGME residencies and taking the same MD tests.

AOA leadership thinks that more DOs are good, but the reality is that the majority of DOs being trained at schools nowadays don’t give a crap about the distinction. The majority of us would rather have unification that allows the application process for both residencies and fellowships to be 100% on merits rather than folk lore myths.

Kind of unrelated but since we're talking about merit and selection bias and all that, from what I've seen so far the USMLE is much harder than the COMLEX and this probably comes into play when PDs pass up DO candidates. I took 1 COMSAE in mid-January (200 questions) and passed by a comfortable margin, meanwhile I'm pretty sure an NBME would have wiped the floor with me, and based on the difficulty of the USMLE questions I've done (about 2000 so far) I would have been right. The USMLE just requires more thorough understanding and detail to parse out.

 

[jrlob91]

The USMLE is definitely harder for most people, but it depends what kind of test you are good at. If you are bad at rote memorization, convoluted strange presentations, and spitting out random facts, COMLEX is by far the harder of the tests. I would say about 25-30% of COMLEX levels 1 and 2 are things you will have never seen before, and therefore tests your ability to take tests and rule things out by knowing what the answer is NOT. The USMLE, by comparison, tests your ability to think critically and work through presentations where you likely know what they are trying to get at. For at least 90% of the USMLE, you will know what they are referring to in their question stem, you just may not know the 4th or 5th order factoid they are asking about.

 

[osteodoc7]

There are two already established manners by which you can practice medicine with the title of physician. It's called the MD or DO route. If nurses want to practice as physicians they must enter into medical school via one of those routes. The shortage of primary care physicians is being addressed. More DO and MD programs are opening.
This entire thread is about DNP's claiming to have adequate, if not superior training to some primary care physicians. How in the hell did the thread turn into an MD vs DO? I hate to sound corny as ****, but honestly we need to be a little more unified. They are claiming to have similar qualifications to physicians.... not MD or DO! And for those in specialties that feel like nurses will never attempt to practice independently, just wait. Those CRNA's among others are just waiting.

 

[HotLunch96]

All for it if they take step 1, use mcat for admission, have 4 years of undergrad med training and 3-7 yrs of GME.

so... medical school

 

[med2345]

All for it if they take step 1, use mcat for admission, have 4 years of undergrad med training and 3-7 yrs of GME.

Podiatry/DPM does all of these + surgery (besides a different step 1) and some people still have trouble calling them "physicians" or completely equal. So i doubt it'd even happen then.

 

[jrlob91]

Podiatry/DPM does all of these + surgery (besides a different step 1) and some people still have trouble calling them "physicians" or completely equal. So i doubt it'd even happen then.

The key phrase there is “a different step 1.”

 

[med2345]

The key phrase there is “a different step 1.”

The key point here is there will always be something to point out. DPMs have separate residencies there is no need to take the exact same test (APMLE instead of USMLE). So what about the DO's who only took the COMLEX that are practicing now? They are different than the other DO's / MD's who took both / only USMLE.. right?

 

[GypsyHummus]

The two Pod California schools are planning to take the USMLE this year.

Are DOs less of a physician if they take the COMLEX vs an MD who took the USMLE?

The key phrase there is “a different step 1.”

 

[Cranjis McBasketball]

The two Pod California schools are planning to take the USMLE this year.

Are DOs less of a physician if they take the COMLEX vs an MD who took the USMLE?

To some people they are.

 

[zero0]

Podiatry/DPM does all of these + surgery (besides a different step 1) and some people still have trouble calling them "physicians" or completely equal. So i doubt it'd even happen then.

Podiatrists don't have a militant well-staffed lobbying campaign run by people with a chip on their shoulder and tons of free time.

 

[med2345]

To some people they are.

Could someone actually find out which DOs only took the COMLEX though? Even if, I’d put money that those people that think that... no one wants to associate with anyway lol

 

[Orthojoe]

Since this thread has made quite a few assumptions as to the effects of the ACGME/AOA merger and DO/MD degree unification - here is what the merger has done to DO Orthopedic Surgical Residencies.... of the current ACGME approved DO orthopedic residencies, just a bit over 1/3rd of their spots have been given to MD applicants, ie DO Orthopedic Residencies are selecting MD applicants instead of DO applicants... EXAMPLE: A program in Florida has designated 1 spot out of 3 for an MD applicant to be chosen. The same is not happening in the Allopathic world.

In an already difficult and competitive field for DOs to match, our own profession is giving these spots to MD applicants -- AND I can tell you from personal experience it's not always because they are more qualified.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Since this thread has made quite a few assumptions as to the effects of the ACGME/AOA merger and DO/MD degree unification - here is what the merger has done to DO Orthopedic Surgical Residencies.... of the current ACGME approved DO orthopedic residencies, just a bit over 1/3rd of their spots have been given to MD applicants, ie DO Orthopedic Residencies are selecting MD applicants instead of DO applicants... EXAMPLE: A program in Florida has designated 1 spot out of 3 for an MD applicant to be chosen. The same is not happening in the Allopathic world.

In an already difficult and competitive field for DOs to match, our own profession is giving these spots to MD applicants -- AND I can tell you from personal experience it's not always because they are more qualified.

Let me guess, MD has lower scores but better 'brand' in schooling?

 

[calvinhobbes]

Since this thread has made quite a few assumptions as to the effects of the ACGME/AOA merger and DO/MD degree unification - here is what the merger has done to DO Orthopedic Surgical Residencies.... of the current ACGME approved DO orthopedic residencies, just a bit over 1/3rd of their spots have been given to MD applicants, ie DO Orthopedic Residencies are selecting MD applicants instead of DO applicants... EXAMPLE: A program in Florida has designated 1 spot out of 3 for an MD applicant to be chosen. The same is not happening in the Allopathic world.

In an already difficult and competitive field for DOs to match, our own profession is giving these spots to MD applicants -- AND I can tell you from personal experience it's not always because they are more qualified.

Agreed. Many DO surgery and OBGYN residencies who received initial ACGME accreditation this year, did not fill all of their DO spots in this month's match (when they could have), instead saving a few spots for the MD match. It really sucks. Even many family program that have dual accreditation are being told by the ACGME "don't accept through the DO match this year" (this was told to me by a PD colleague). And many dual IM programs, or programs that have already converted to ACGME, will not even do the DO match next year, even though they technically can up until 2020. Many hospitals with IM and Family programs are also getting rid of the osteopathic "TRI" positions as well (and some already have), which means finding a "prelim" spot that is needed for certain residencies, will get that much harder.
This year's DO match had many unfilled spots, and not for the lack of applicants...the PD's are saving those spots for the MD match...not to say that they won't take DOs, but the pressure is there to fill at least some of those spots w/ MDs. And with more DO graduates this year, and in the coming years, as opposed to a few years back...it's getting much tougher. And a lot of hospitals still prefer IMGs, so don't believe anyone when they say a single match benefits all. In the long term it really doesn't benefit DOs (in terms of matching).

 

[GypsyHummus]

I mean, what did DO students think would happen with the merger?that all the Opthamology, Ortho, and ENT doors would open up and bow before their Osteopathic might? It’s a mission of a majority of Do schools to promote PCPs in rural and underserved areas.

A DO expecting to get into a competitive non Primary care residency is like a dental student thinking they are going to get a Ortho or oral surgery residency. Sure, it happens, and it’s legally and technically possible, but unless you are a rockstar, it’s general practice for you.

Since this thread has made quite a few assumptions as to the effects of the ACGME/AOA merger and DO/MD degree unification - here is what the merger has done to DO Orthopedic Surgical Residencies.... of the current ACGME approved DO orthopedic residencies, just a bit over 1/3rd of their spots have been given to MD applicants, ie DO Orthopedic Residencies are selecting MD applicants instead of DO applicants... EXAMPLE: A program in Florida has designated 1 spot out of 3 for an MD applicant to be chosen. The same is not happening in the Allopathic world.

In an already difficult and competitive field for DOs to match, our own profession is giving these spots to MD applicants -- AND I can tell you from personal experience it's not always because they are more qualified.

 

[W19]

The merger is not good for DO in every sense. Some former DO programs would take IMG with 220+ step1 instead of taking a struggling DO students... These new ACGME residencies would want to have students who can pass the boards to maintain their ACGME accreditation.

These MD prestige driven PDs are not going to suddenly accept DO. The only good thing that DO got out of that merger is that they no longer will be trained in these substandard AOA programs

 

[Anti-PD1]

Why Cathopatic?

I have no problem with DPNs being physicians if they go through the equivalent level of schooling MD/DOs go through. If they think it’s gonna be overnight, they are mistaken. DPMs have been around for 50+ years and are just now standardizing their education, some even taking the same classes right next to the DO class, and being accepted into the medical community as physicians.

So yeah, I’m all for NPs or whoever having those privileges if they: do 4 rigourus years of Nursing school then a 3 year residency in primary care.

Why not just do med school at that point? Oh yes, they couldn't even pass a watered down version of Step 3.

 

[Anti-PD1]

The merger is not good for DO in every sense. Some former DO programs would take IMG with 220+ step1 instead of taking a struggling DO students... These new ACGME residencies would want to have students who can pass the boards to maintain their ACGME accreditation.

These MD prestige driven PDs are not going to suddenly accept DO. The only good thing that DO got out of that merger is that they no longer will be trained in these substandard AOA programs

Correct. Separate is not equal. One day very soon every MD and DO will train in a program accredited by the same agency. That's a major milestone.

 

[GypsyHummus]

Im sure there are some nurses who could pass boards.

I have often wondered if medical school should be divided into Specialties vs Primary Care (PC). For people who want to do PC, have a separate medical school system that is 3 years long that cuts out fluff. Have it be 3 years of med school, 2 years of primary care. That way its only 5 years in total instead of 7, and lower the barrier to entry. Front Line primary care doctors who administer basic medical services could always refer out if they feel the case is too complex, GPA thresholds being lower to entice people into PC.

I guess thats what DO schools are for.

Why not just do med school at that point? Oh yes, they couldn't even pass a watered down version of Step 3.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Im sure there are some nurses who could pass boards.

I have often wondered if medical school should be divided into Specialties vs Primary Care (PC). For people who want to do PC, have a separate medical school system that is 3 years long that cuts out fluff. Have it be 3 years of med school, 2 years of primary care. That way its only 5 years in total instead of 7, and lower the barrier to entry. Front Line primary care doctors who administer basic medical services could always refer out if they feel the case is too complex, GPA thresholds being lower to entice people into PC.

I guess thats what DO schools are for.

The problem is that primary care needs the boardest base. They do not need 'fluff' getting cut out (unless we are talking about pathology, most primary could do without that). Really it would be a lot easier to cut out parts of med school for specialist than for generalists.

Also on NPs passing our boards, I doubt that 5% could. There might be some, but it would be very few, and based on their experience/after school learning.