Whoot! Whoot! Cathopathic Physicians To Be Equal To DOs and MDs

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The problem is that primary care needs the boardest base. They do not need 'fluff' getting cut out (unless we are talking about pathology, most primary could do without that). Really it would be a lot easier to cut out parts of med school for specialist than for generalists.

Also on NPs passing our boards, I doubt that 5% could. There might be some, but it would be very few, and based on their experience/after school learning.

So true. I've seen neurosurgeons consult IM for basic blood pressure control. Specialists don't feel comfortable with general medicine, and it's understandable.

Why make me learn the details of pap smear/atypia workup when the purpose of my existence is to avoid the pelvis so much so I'm hell bent on the other end of the body?

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Im sure there are some nurses who could pass boards.

I bet less than 5% could. Step 1 requires a foundational understanding of basic medical science that they simply don’t get in their training pathway. This foundation isn’t something that is picked up simply by working a lot as an NP either.
 
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I bet less than 5% could. Step 1 requires a foundational understanding of basic medical science that they simply don’t get in their training pathway. This foundation isn’t something that is picked up simply by working a lot as an NP either.

Being an RN in med school i can say that there is no way in heck nursing school or NP school would prepare you for the medical boards. We don't get exposed to biomedical sciences anywhere near the depth that med students do. The stuff i learned in the ER and ICU after school is only helpful for the clinical aspects of med school, for everything else i'm just as lost as my classmates.
 
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Being an RN in med school i can say that there is no way in heck nursing school or NP school would prepare you for the medical boards. We don't get exposed to biomedical sciences anywhere near the depth that med students do. The stuff i learned in the ER and ICU after school is only helpful for the clinical aspects of med school, for everything else i'm just as lost as my classmates.

I’m an RN too and I agree with all of this. Also, I wanted to echo the “only helpful for the clinical aspects of med school, for everything else i’m just as lost as my classmates.” A lot of my nursing coworkers and medical school classmates assume I magically know everything already and should be top of my class. It feels like an added pressure when really, like you said, for most of it I’m on equal footing with everyone else.

Here’s an example of a conversation with my fellow-RN coworker:

Me: *studying for micro*
Her: “what class is that?”
Me: “micro”
Her: “what? You didn’t take that in nursing school?!”
Me: “yeah, I did.”
Her: “oh so they just won’t waive it.”
Me: “well, they don’t in fact waive any courses for prior exposure. However, I wouldn’t be able to anyway. It’s not equivalent.”
Her: “what do you mean? Micro is micro. Gram positive is gram positive is gram positive.”
Me: “yes, but in undergrad pre-nursing micro, you don’t cover everything covered in Medical microbiology. For example we have to know what receptor HIV binds to, not just that it ‘lowers CD4+ Cell count’.”
Her: “So it’s just like a review for you then. Why do you even need to study?”
Me: *sigh*
 
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I’m an RN too and I agree with all of this. Also, I wanted to echo the “only helpful for the clinical aspects of med school, for everything else i’m just as lost as my classmates.” A lot of my nursing coworkers and medical school classmates assume I magically know everything already and should be top of my class. It feels like an added pressure when really, like you said, for most of it I’m on equal footing with everyone else.

Here’s an example of a conversation with my fellow-RN coworker:

Me: *studying for micro*
Her: “what class is that?”
Me: “micro”
Her: “what? You didn’t take that in nursing school?!”
Me: “yeah, I did.”
Her: “oh so they just won’t waive it.”
Me: “well, they don’t in fact waive any courses for prior exposure. However, I wouldn’t be able to anyway. It’s not equivalent.”
Her: “what do you mean? Micro is micro. Gram positive is gram positive is gram positive.”
Me: “yes, but in undergrad pre-nursing micro, you don’t cover everything covered in Medical microbiology. For example we have to know what receptor HIV binds to, not just that it ‘lowers CD4+ Cell count’.”
Her: “So it’s just like a review for you then. Why do you even need to study?”
Me: *sigh*


Lol yeah. I have many coworkers ask if i get advanced standing... nope. Quite the opposite. I feel handicapped in some areas actually. I graduated nursing school in 2011 and really don't remember what they taught us and what they didn't. We are learning endocrine right now, about every 5th word sounds familiar to me. :shrug:

On a side note from what i said earlier. I have known some stupidly good NPs - they've had a decade of clinical exp and have taken grad level biochems and cell bio. But if this Cathopathic Doc thing starts gaining momentum they need to be able to pass the medical boards!
 
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Lol yeah. I have many coworkers ask if i get advanced standing... nope. Quite the opposite. I feel handicapped in some areas actually. I graduated nursing school in 2011 and really don't remember what they taught us and what they didn't. We are leaning endocrine right now, about every 5th word sounds familiar to me. :shrug:

On a side note from what i said earlier. I have known some stupidly good NPs - they've had a decade of clinical exp and have taken grad level biochems and cell bio. But if this Cathopathic Doc thing starts gaining momentum they need to be able to pass the medical boards!

Not a nurse, but I was a medic for 7 years or so before school and I agree with the feeling handicapped part. I was definitely at a disadvantage in biochem and anatomy to a degree, but my background has made most of phys significantly easier and the clinical stuff a cakewalk. ECGs were a main source of anxiety for most of my class and I didn't have to study for that section, so that was nice. But some of the more theoretical and foundational stuff definitely gives me a harder time. There are drawbacks to learning a cursory overview/watered down/quick and dirty way to do things prior to med school because you often have to unlearn to learn as the adage goes.
 
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I’m an RN too and I agree with all of this. Also, I wanted to echo the “only helpful for the clinical aspects of med school, for everything else i’m just as lost as my classmates.” A lot of my nursing coworkers and medical school classmates assume I magically know everything already and should be top of my class. It feels like an added pressure when really, like you said, for most of it I’m on equal footing with everyone else.

Here’s an example of a conversation with my fellow-RN coworker:

Me: *studying for micro*
Her: “what class is that?”
Me: “micro”
Her: “what? You didn’t take that in nursing school?!”
Me: “yeah, I did.”
Her: “oh so they just won’t waive it.”
Me: “well, they don’t in fact waive any courses for prior exposure. However, I wouldn’t be able to anyway. It’s not equivalent.”
Her: “what do you mean? Micro is micro. Gram positive is gram positive is gram positive.”
Me: “yes, but in undergrad pre-nursing micro, you don’t cover everything covered in Medical microbiology. For example we have to know what receptor HIV binds to, not just that it ‘lowers CD4+ Cell count’.”
Her: “So it’s just like a review for you then. Why do you even need to study?”
Me: *sigh*
I loled, I could see some of my former nursing classmates thinking this way as well. They have no idea the depth that is missing. Still love them tho.
 
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Not a nurse, but I was a medic for 7 years or so before school and I agree with the feeling handicapped part. I was definitely at a disadvantage in biochem and anatomy to a degree, but my background has made most of phys significantly easier and the clinical stuff a cakewalk. ECGs were a main source of anxiety for most of my class and I didn't have to study for that section, so that was nice. But some of the more theoretical and foundational stuff definitely gives me a harder time. There are drawbacks to learning a cursory overview/watered down/quick and dirty way to do things prior to med school because you often have to unlearn to learn as the adage goes.
I agree that if you have a clinical background the going gets a little better in systems when you leave the science behind (where I definitely was at a disadvantage). But really I agree with Nick that sometimes things just sound familiar and I never had to know the depth that I do now. But it is pretty cool when I can integrate my memories of patients with the pathophysiology I am learning. I think that might actually be an advantage later.
 
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I agree that if you have a clinical background the going gets a little better in systems when you leave the science behind (where I definitely was at a disadvantage). But really I agree with Nick that sometimes things just sound familiar and I never had to know the depth that I do now. But it is pretty cool when I can integrate my memories of patients with the pathophysiology I am learning. I think that might actually be an advantage later.

Yeah I nearly always find myself thinking about specific patients and how they presented when I'm answering vignettes and it makes it significantly easier. And I agree, it IS really cool to be able to walk backwards through what you know/what you've seen and arrive at what you're learning. For me, the big thing was being able to deduce almost any ANS answer based off of my simple monkey-medic level understanding of atropine and dopamine.
 
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2 things:
1. The Name "Cathopathic," is INCREDIBLY arrogant. There's nothing "universal," about a backdoor to the title Physician.
2. My background isn't helping me in anything but patho (Paramedic with a B.S.), but I help teach the 2nd year's lab and skill sessions. I'm looking forward to 3rd year.
 
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I think nurse practitioners have their role. More than this board usually gives them credit for.
BUT that is NOT the role of physician unless they want to add in a standardized GME and take an equivalent board exam.
 
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To be fair, I think a lot of the negativity here is in response to the minority of mid-levels that try to bite off more than they can chew. Overreaches tend to cause overreactions by nature.
 
If they want to model the education along a medical and not nursing path, I don’t see a problem.

D.O. is now roughly = to M.D., once the education is aligned I don’t see why an N.P. shouldn’t enjoy the same rights and privileges. But only if they pass boards.

Right now there are 3-year “PCP-only” tracks at a couple schools, so the witch hunt better include them if we are going to be strict about 2 years didactic/ 2 years clinical.
 
If they want to model the education along a medical and not nursing path, I don’t see a problem.

D.O. is now roughly = to M.D., once the education is aligned I don’t see why an N.P. shouldn’t enjoy the same rights and privileges. But only if they pass boards.

Right now there are 3-year “PCP-only” tracks at a couple schools, so the witch hunt better include them if we are going to be strict about 2 years didactic/ 2 years clinical.
I am in one of the 3-year programs and it is not just "PCP-only". We do the equivalent education. So that statement makes zero sense to compare us to NPs.

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I am in one of the 3-year programs and it is not just "PCP-only". We do the equivalent education. So that statement makes zero sense to compare us to NPs.

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Read the next part. A lot of the argument is that NPs do not have 2 years didactic/2 year’s clinical like MD/DO does.

The point is that not all MD/DO programs do either.

I was not comparing you to an NP. Point stands, though.
 
Read the next part. A lot of the argument is that NPs do not have 2 years didactic/2 year’s clinical like MD/DO does.

The point is that not all MD/DO programs do either.

I was not comparing you to an NP. Point stands, though.

A lot of the argument is that they don't cover the material in depth. They also don't have a residency.

The schools that have a 1.5 pre-clinical curriculum are in the top 20. At the end of the day they still take the Steps and crush them. It means they learn material a little faster.

The schools that only have 1 year clinical still have a minimum of a 3 year residency.
 
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LECOM is in the top 20?

Well anyway, I think as they shift their educational structure in line with medical school and implement boards, they will have earned the right to the title.

I’m much more comfortable with that future scenario than what IS going to happen: online MS degrees practicing independently in all 50 states (already happens in the VA system IIRC).
 
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Upside to the rapid proliferation of medical schools (especially DO schools)? Maybe when we're putting out 10,000 doctors a year the whole "providing cost-effective care in the face of a physician shortage" argument will be invalid. Well, it's already not valid given that the geographic distribution of midlevels is eerily similar to that of physicians. But still, maybe it'll become even LESS valid.
 
Upside to the rapid proliferation of medical schools (especially DO schools)? Maybe when we're putting out 10,000 doctors a year the whole "providing cost-effective care in the face of a physician shortage" argument will be invalid. Well, it's already not valid given that the geographic distribution of midlevels is eerily similar to that of physicians. But still, maybe it'll become even LESS valid.
When midlevels live in the cities they do it WITH HEART which is more than those greedy doctors not helping poor rural folk can say though so checkmate!!! /s
 
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