Whoot! Whoot! Most Idaho COM core sites are >500 miles away from Idaho COM campus

hallowmann

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It would force schools to step up their gme unless they wanted to contract. Schools wouldn’t be able to fill 400 spots without residency connections with P/F cause students would have no shot at anything competitive, which would drastically reduce apps. I believe this would force COCA to upgrade the quality of DO schools. I could be wrong, and we could turn into the Caribbean, but I think there is a vested interest in not letting that happen.
I'm typically not the more cynical one in our discussions, but I don't think this would be the case. I think the schools would place everyone in FM, IM, and Peds and not bat an eye. They'd call it part of their mission towards primary care, and their apps would stay the same because afterall 1000s are still going to the Caribbean despite their abysmal number of specialty matches.
 

Goro

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I'm typically not the more cynical one in our discussions, but I don't think this would be the case. I think the schools would place everyone in FM, IM, and Peds and not bat an eye. They'd call it part of their mission towards primary care, and their apps would stay the same because afterall 1000s are still going to the Caribbean despite their abysmal number of specialty matches.
Well, that IS the mission of the AOA. Yet people are always surprised by this.
 
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NurWollen

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Well, that IS the mission of the AOA. Yet people are always surprised by this.
I'm not even convinced peds will be easy for these places, if/when the crunch happens. Not nearly as many peds programs at Random, USA Community Hospital as there is for IM/FM.

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NurWollen

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The more I think about it, the more egregious I think this whole Corinth, MS thing is. Yes, I know it's only a minority of their students, but still. Outside of the coasts, seeing people from a school in Idaho rotating in Mississippi is going to seem really... weird. ICOM's self-described mission is to provide primary care physicians for a 5-state area (Idaho, Wyoming, Montana, and the Dakotas, I think? Random collection of mountain and Midwest states). Students from ICOM aren't going to have any connections to that region's residency programs when it comes match time. I bet many won't stay in the area.

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BorntobeDO?

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I'm typically not the more cynical one in our discussions, but I don't think this would be the case. I think the schools would place everyone in FM, IM, and Peds and not bat an eye. They'd call it part of their mission towards primary care, and their apps would stay the same because afterall 1000s are still going to the Caribbean despite their abysmal number of specialty matches.
Ah but the premeds are the ones who won’t apply, it doesn’t matter what they say, I would bet 70%+ are going DO over Carib cause they have a chance at nonprimary care and desire something else. Take away the chance and I expect the apps to drop precipitously.
 
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BorntobeDO?

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I'm not even convinced peds will be easy for these places, if/when the crunch happens. Not nearly as many peds programs at Random, USA Community Hospital as there is for IM/FM.

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Agree, there aren’t enough peds programs out there for it to stay uncompetitive in a saturation situation. Especially the programs with fellowships.
 
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BorntobeDO?

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I am interested in anesthesiology. Which based on my research, has not been competitive in recent years. However, I feel that I could have a fulfilling career in family medicine or outpatient psychiatry. Other than that, I agree with everything you said and appreciate your opinion!
Well that list better narrow down to FM only if your going ICOM.
 

NurWollen

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You forgot to add "rural" in front of FM to be more realistic.

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Idk man... some of the best FM programs are rural. FM residents running ICUs, doing Hospitalist stuff and clinic all in one day, doing every procedure that happens.

Far more problematic, IMHO, are programs in small, suburban metro HCA hospitals without a strong teaching tradition.

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Natural Killer Cell

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One of the good state schools should switch over and work out a deal to become the first “MD-O”. That’ll open the floodgates. No way these brand new schools should be lumped together with the established schools that have actually competitive matriculant stats, good rotation sites in the same region, and GME programs.
 
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Whysoez

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One of the good state schools should switch over and work out a deal to become the first “MD-O”. That’ll open the floodgates. No way these brand new schools should be lumped together with the established schools that have actualply competitive matriculant stats, good rotation sites in the same region, and GME programs.
MDO sounds more like a condition than a degree lol.
 

BorntobeDO?

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Don’t scare the child.
Better to know now than to find out later. Undersell, overdeliver has been a guiding principle of mine. Of course that puts me in direct opposition to my schools unofficial motto of ‘oversell, overprice, kick ‘em out if they complain about it.’
 

BorntobeDO?

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You forgot to add "rural" in front of FM to be more realistic.

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He would be lucky. He will probably be in Long Island at a former IMG only program losing his religion.
 
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hallowmann

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One of the good state schools should switch over and work out a deal to become the first “MD-O”....
Finally a novel idea that hasn't been proposed for literally the last century. Seriously guys, I think it's been almost a solid couple weeks since I've heard someone suggest changing the degree to MD-O. This forum was starting to disappoint me.

Can someone else mention switching to MD, California, UC-Irvine, and $65 dollars so I can call it a night?
 

Natural Killer Cell

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Finally a novel idea that hasn't been proposed for literally the last century. Seriously guys, I think it's been almost a solid couple weeks since I've heard someone suggest changing the degree to MD-O. This forum was starting to disappoint me.
How about "OMD/O.MD/O-MD/O'MD/O,MD/oMD"?
 
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Whysoez

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Finally a novel idea that hasn't been proposed for literally the last century. Seriously guys, I think it's been almost a solid couple weeks since I've heard someone suggest changing the degree to MD-O. This forum was starting to disappoint me.

Can someone else mention switching to MD, California, UC-Irvine, and $65 dollars so I can call it a night?
Ok, may I propose that all MDs and DOs will be called Maesters from now on?
 

DrStephenStrange

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Frankly, I highly doubt that ARCOM has an 88% pass rate considering the incoming stats of their first class.
I have heard a lower number, but it’s speculation. Agree with the suspicion of that number. It’s not that I don’t believe strange, it’s that I don’t believe admin numbers in general at this point.
With 15 people not having taken it yet that number isn't going to stay steady. It will be below 85%.
I have heard ~86% from some students, but we don't have the official numbers yet. Our next Dean's hour is next week, I will let you guys know if something comes out.
As promised, I said I was gonna update after our dean's hour today. Well currently, ARCOM is sitting at 86.2% first time pass rate with 4 people scores still unaccounted for.

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Goro

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As promised, I said I was gonna update after our dean's hour today. Well currently, ARCOM is sitting at 86.2% first time pass rate with 4 people scores still unaccounted for.

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This is what I'd expect for a brand new school.

As a teaching moment, there are three reasons:
1) It takes time for a new Faculty to gel and deliver a curriculum
2) New schools are forced to take in weaker students.
3) It takes some time for new schools to develop the support staff that will help struggling students and/or prepare them for Boards.

The pass rate should (or rather, had better be) > 90% by the time ARCOM graduates its first classes.
 
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As promised, I said I was gonna update after our dean's hour today. Well currently, ARCOM is sitting at 86.2% first time pass rate with 4 people scores still unaccounted for.

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How can 4 scores be unaccounted for in January?
There is a bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell to you.
 

DrStephenStrange

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How can 4 scores be unaccounted for in January?
There is a bridge in Brooklyn that I can sell to you.
Lol I actually know one of them that still haven't taken the test yet. I have no idea why though because I don't ask questions, but they're most likely gonna get bumped to our class because I have no idea how they're gonna be able to take level 1 and both level 2s in the span of just a few months.
 
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Turning down a US med school acceptance to reapply is a terrible idea and can be a red flag. If ICOM is your only acceptance, then you really should go there. If you get any other acceptances, I would take those in a heartbeat given the issues ICOM is having.

You can still succeed no matter where you go; you just might have a tougher time at ICOM than other schools.
Is there any intertalk between MD and DO side of things? Do you even have to admit this? Would the new changes to STEP 1 be enough to justify this withdrawal?
 
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If ICOM is your only acceptance, then go. Be okay with going into primary care (honestly any incoming medical student, MD or DO, should accept that as a possibility). First 1.5-2 years of medical school are similar everywhere. Hopefully by the time you hit rotations, ICOM will have stabilized its hospital sites.
It's unavoidable that there'll be more DOs entering the Match with each given year.

Anyone with a slight amount of foresight knows that unchecked expansion (MD and DO both) is harmful to the degree in the long-run. I imagine they're trying to phase out FMGs, and US-IMGs by making it so they can go DO instead of the Caribbean or elsewhere. However, if they can't guarantee proper clinical sites in their own state or within a several hundred mile radius of the school or fulfill a state mission, then they shouldn't be allowed to exist. Also, there needs to be rigor getting into medical school. If the MD average is ~3.7/508, then the DO average, IMO, should be ~3.5/505.

Another problem is that there is no official ranking of DO schools. If somebody actually stratified schools based on GPA/MCAT, research funding, GMEs, etc., the residency programs wouldn't lump everyone together and actually see that the "top"/established schools are moderately competitive with stats on par to low-tier MDs.
The MD average is now 513. Additionally, many students I've seen at DO schools are scoring 513's as well.
 
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BorntobeDO?

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Is there any intertalk between MD and DO side of things? Do you even have to admit this? Would the new changes to STEP 1 be enough to justify this withdrawal?
There is no inter talk between the MD and DO apps. MDs do not automatically know you turned down a DO school, and I don’t think other DO schools know unless you disclose. That said, I have not looked at the apps for years, so I may be forgetting if the AAMC wants you to disclose having been accepted to a DO school. But at least when I looked in the somewhat distant past (been 5 years), they did not.
 

sab3156

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Is there any intertalk between MD and DO side of things? Do you even have to admit this?
Hell no.

Would the new changes to STEP 1 be enough to justify this withdrawal?
If you think you may want something competitive, you sure as hell better try for MD again, or maybe take a "leave of absence" for personal reasons if the DO school allows it, and apply during that "leave of absence".
 
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There is no inter talk between the MD and DO apps. MDs do not automatically know you turned down a DO school, and I don’t think other DO schools know unless you disclose. That said, I have not looked at the apps for years, so I may be forgetting if the AAMC wants you to disclose having been accepted to a DO school. But at least when I looked in the somewhat distant past (been 5 years), they did not.
Interesting as this may be a consideration. When I started the cycle, I was okay with DO, but now I'm more concerned about residency placements. Initially, I wanted to do cardiology, but now I've started to realize that is quite the path to choose, so maybe a general internist or family med would be better and more up my ally. My main thing is that I would like to practice in an urban area rather than rural, and typically not even suburban. How competitive would residencies be in this area (given that most will typically be part of larger medical centers).
 
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If you think you may want something competitive, you sure as hell better try for MD again, or maybe take a "leave of absence" for personal reasons if the DO school allows it, and apply during that "leave of absence".
[/QUOTE]

I was going to try to go for cards, but that seems to be more and more out of the picture given the current climate. I feel like I would need to retake the MCAT again during this period, which would be difficult and complicate the whole process (Raising it from a 512 currently). I feel like the rest of my app is fine, but I guess my ec's or secondaries just weren't up to snuff. I'm getting a ton of love from DO schools, but not so much from MD schools.
 
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BorntobeDO?

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Interesting as this may be a consideration. When I started the cycle, I was okay with DO, but now I'm more concerned about residency placements. Initially, I wanted to do cardiology, but now I've started to realize that is quite the path to choose, so maybe a general internist or family med would be better and more up my ally. My main thing is that I would like to practice in an urban area rather than rural, and typically not even suburban. How competitive would residencies be in this area (given that most will typically be part of larger medical centers).
Anything more urban will be more competitive. If your goal is to get a residency in a place like Chicago, San Fran, LA, or NY then you will be much better served by the MD than DO. That said, schools with regional ties do better in those regions if you decide to settle for the DO, pick something close to were you want to be.
 
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So Midwestern of PCOM? One of those is 100% possible at this point in time. One of those places is where I 100% want to end up. Hopefully MD's will come through, but at least it is goodish to hear that it's not all bad.
 

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So Midwestern of PCOM? One of those is 100% possible at this point in time. One of those places is where I 100% want to end up. Hopefully MD's will come through, but at least it is goodish to hear that it's not all bad.
Go to PCOM if you got an acceptance there. That's probably my favorite non-state school DO, though their ridiculous branch campus in GA annoys me.
 
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Go to PCOM if you got an acceptance there. That's probably my favorite non-state school DO, though their ridiculous branch campus in GA annoys me.
PCOM I love, but if they'd give me an interview sometime soon, I'd love that too. Maybe I should send them a valentines day card / little love note in the form of an update letter.
 

hallowmann

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...If you think you may want something competitive, you sure as hell better try for MD again, or maybe take a "leave of absence" for personal reasons if the DO school allows it, and apply during that "leave of absence".
If memory serves, there is usually a question of whether you have matriculated at a medical school before. If the goal is to reapply I would either defer the acceptance or just turn it down.

PCOM I love, but if they'd give me an interview sometime soon, I'd love that too. Maybe I should send them a valentines day card / little love note in the form of an update letter.
If PCOM hasn't interviewed you or offered an invite by now, chances are slim, but a letter wouldn't hurt. They tend to fill up their invite slots on the earlier side.
 
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rg2o3

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Is there not a limit on the distance in which core rotations need to be from the institution? If not, that needs to be implemented.
 

hallowmann

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Is there not a limit on the distance in which core rotations need to be from the institution? If not, that needs to be implemented.
I don't know that I would love this idea. I'd rather have a good core site than a bad one in a rural area or bad rotations around my school.

I'd rather push to have all core rotations in a narrow radius around your site rather than necessarily around your school, especially with DO schools largely being in small and rural areas or areas already saturated with medical schools (looking at you Philly and Chitown). Moving after 2nd year is stressful, but there are worse things.
 

sab3156

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If memory serves, there is usually a question of whether you have matriculated at a medical school before. If the goal is to reapply I would either defer the acceptance or just turn it down.
You're right, deferring is probably a better idea.
 

Goro

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Is there any intertalk between MD and DO side of things? Do you even have to admit this? Would the new changes to STEP 1 be enough to justify this withdrawal?
No, yes and no
 

rg2o3

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I don't know that I would love this idea. I'd rather have a good core site than a bad one in a rural area or bad rotations around my school.

I'd rather push to have all core rotations in a narrow radius around your site rather than necessarily around your school, especially with DO schools largely being in small and rural areas or areas already saturated with medical schools (looking at you Philly and Chitown). Moving after 2nd year is stressful, but there are worse things.
Those are fair points that I agree with. I just find it somewhat concerning to have students scramble to move all over the country within a few months all while taking step/level 1. I guess I was lucky to attend a school who has their rotations all within the same general region. I just couldn’t imagine the stress.
 
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Those are fair points that I agree with. I just find it somewhat concerning to have students scramble to move all over the country within a few months all while taking step/level 1. I guess I was lucky to attend a school who has their rotations all within the same general region. I just couldn’t imagine the stress.
Is being in Chicago really that bad of a thing for a DO school?
 
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